- Video Moodle
- Can you play this MP4 ?
- Video | Please check my thinking.
- Video does not play in MOODLE
- Filter | Videoeasy
All active during the last 24 h.
I though there used to be a dedicated forum for videos. Am I mistaken?
There wasn't a forum for videos, however there was previously a 'Text filters' forum where there was occasionally a question about the multimedia plugins filter.
Thanks for clarifying. From the number of discussions on Moodle and video one could ask whether a seperate forum would be helpful. OK, then we have the old problem of too many forums in moodle.org.
I agree completely regarding the issue of having too many forums, but video is a really critical aspect for many people (and apart from embedding YouTube, inserting video is nowhere near as easy as it could be!)
I would vote for a video forum!
OK, Helen, what do you think about this suggestion?
"Deploying and embedding media"
To add a little to the last suggestion.
Helen? Mary? Anyone?
Since last week, just a few of the posts. and this is by no means all:
- video streaming https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=315917
- Video Control https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=315956
- Size of YouTube video player https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=315997
- Vimeo Hosting https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=315961
- 2.9 Embedded video https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=315998
I think it would be nice to support getting some traction on this topic.
There are certainly quite a few discussions about videos, however I'm unclear as to reasons why putting them in one forum will ensure that questions are more likely to be answered? Also, where would such a forum be put in the list of forums? It doesn't quite fit with 'Other components'.
A dedicated forum is only going to work if there are sufficient people participating in discussions. Are there a number of people regularly posting in threads about video / media?
Putting them in a dedicated forum might make them less likely to get answers.
> Putting them in a dedicated forum might make them less likely to get answers.
Statistically speaking, Yes. But the point is, we are not talking about a statistical experiment. Firstly, the sample size is small, to be exact it is one. Secondly, future cause can be influenced. Just go though the contributions of those voices here and those of the people who rated those voices weigh the mass for yourself.
I was looking at things from a completely different perspective Helen. I apologise for the length of my post here.
My first point: I think video issues (in particular) are significant. In much the same way for instance "Responsive" is important. It's an issue that crops up daily in the life of most online teachers/learners. If it is not solved, you notice it.
Various Moodle distributions and flavours have a Video solution that "just works": Totara, Joule, Lambda's install, the Catalyst version I've seen down the road, that Africa based guys with the blog who's name I forget - to name a few. (I don't now about ELIS, Pukanui, WebAnywhere, Netsapiens AB etc - but I bet the good ones do have an answer . . . )
At present Moodle core doesn't have this properly nailed yet, and some of the conversations have stalled. For instance https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-47049. I'd say HQ is aware of the problem, but just has not prioritised it yet. One day when a Senior Person has to teach for a while and sees it first hand, well maybe we will see traction . . . .
On the other hand I could surmise that HQ wants to keep things flexible and open. Some of the solutions listed above require you to use format X and upload in a particular way. ie there is a 'workflow that just works'. Sometimes speed and convenience require a limit to our freedom.
So, if we are using Core Moodle or close to it, we are left with video solutions that use plugins, hacks and work arounds. To make things worse the issue of codecs, wrappers and standards is not trivial. And in the 2.7>2.8 Atto shift we have lost functionality and we are back to reworking our workarounds. For me I have had to deal with this on and off for six years.
So my request is to centralise some of the conversations on Video in part is to help move the issue forward. Also to support those who are working on this (like Genrico, Essential, lightbox, Videoeasy, BCU, Poodll, Media collection, Playlist). Based on the rationale "Video deployment is pretty significant and issue" in terms of common Moodle functions, and is worth a forum.
This is not just about questions "getting answered" Helen. Otherwise you would not have a Research form for instance. Research is a significant issue. So is deployment of media. IMO.
@Visvanath. https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=313462#p1266431 I have not penetrated the meaning of your post entirely, but this is as close to a 'business case' as I can get.
@Marcus. "Putting them in a dedicated forum might make them less likely to get answers" [do you have any rationale for your assertion?] But when you search, you will find something centralised and more able to help with the cause.
@Helen "Are there a number of people regularly posting in threads about video / media?" Yes
Just my thoughts.
"Various Moodle distributions and flavours have a Video solution that "just works": Totara, Joule, Lambda's install, the Catalyst version "
Derek, do you have experience with one or more of those alternatives with a a video solution that just works?
Whatever that problem is, istn't that a topic for the future video forum which has delivery problems right now?
"Business case" is the politically correct term for "money talks". Remember Moodle Association https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=313217 ?
@Visvanath No, I disagree. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_case it may or may not have to do with money. It may be purely a question of time or resources.
If Helen and Mary make us a forum, there is immediately an overhead to their life, one more place here to facilitate, monitor, take out the trash and so on. I'm trying to persuade them it is of value for the global project of improving Moodle and making the life of people easier. Even tnose who come here from scratch and say "How can I get my video to do what I want?"
Using the WP definition " It is often presented in a well-structured written document, but may also sometimes come in the form of a short verbal argument or presentation. The logic of the business case is that, whenever resources such as money or effort are consumed, they should be in support of a specific business need. "
My chicken scratchings fall a bit sort. Well structured it is not.
@Marcus. later maybe.
Every single company that I have ever dealt with has calculated time and resources as money. It is *very* rare that a shortfall in either can't be resolved with more money.
The question here is one of opportunity cost, and I don't see an increased return for Moodle HQ in not doing it.
You are perfectly right about "Business case". I still wonder, given those additional hints in the previous post https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=313462#p1266611, still you can't gather any meaning out of https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=313462#p1266431 ?
Further hint: Forget "Business case" and substitute "money talks" in its place.
@Marcus. "Putting them in a dedicated forum might make them less likely to get answers" [do you have any rationale for your assertion?]
There are probably many people who who might only visit the forums on topics they are interested in. When a question comes up on something they did not thing they are "interested in", but have the answer to they won't see it. I do most of my reading of these forums using an RSS reader configured for the topics I find most interesting, I don't suppose I am unique. Because I am a bit obsessive I also search the forums using the recent activity link, so I don't miss much.
I'm not saying this is always/overall true, just that putting something into it's own forum area is no guarantee of increasing the chance of getting an answer.
I wonder how many frustrated geeks it needs to wake up a sleeping fairy? Here's the latest" "Does Moodle support video conferencing" https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=278192.
"The simple logic is that those who are interested in the subject will read that forum!"
As I implied, my own behaviour doesn't match your logic.
P.S. The score of frustrated geeks trying to wake up a fairy stands at 1.
"Would it make a difference? I mean, how many "video problems" have you solved in the past?"
That is not relevant as I was not commenting on my behaviour relating to solving video problems, but solving problems in general. I don't have an opinion either way as to if a Video forum is required, but I do have an opinion on the number and organisation of forums which can be summed up with the idea that more is not necessarily better.
> That is not relevant as I was not commenting on my behaviour relating to solving video problems, but solving problems in general. I don't have an opinion either way as to if a Video forum is required, ...
That is enlightning!
> but I do have an opinion on the number and organisation of forums which can be summed up with the idea that more is not necessarily better.
Could be true. But it should have been considered before moodle.org exploded in to 60 odd (?) forums. The current discussion assumes those forums as given.
I disagree regarding the issue of numbers involved - quite a number of the forums have extremely low participation rates. But video (and to a lesser extent audio) is an extremely important aspect of a huge number of Moodle sites and it is not straightforward.
An example, a lot of teachers don't know that not all mp4 files are the same. Some work in Moodle, some don't. The Moodle documentation is often directed at tech-savvy admins, rather than a teacher trying to create a course for the first time. Should they post in general help? Or teaching with Moodle? Or somewhere else? Do they even know exactly what the problem is? What would be the best search terms? If you put "problem with video" into the forum search you get nearly 1800 returns on a huge variety of issues.
But having a video (or multimedia forum), would give them an easily identifiable starting point for looking for information on a critical issue.. For me, that's just good customer service.
All the best
Re the documentation, those who know about different video file types on different devices (not me, particularly) are very welcome to improve the documentation on Video
Honestly, what would one expect to find in http://docs.moodle.org/en/Video ? Everything a Moodler needs to know about videos? Wouldn't that be somewhat broad for a single page? Do you seriously believe, one page will replace a dedicated forum for videos?
Why does it have to be a single page - Moodle docs are a wiki, the video page could be a starting point with links to lots of other pages with details about specific issues.
Surely organised, maintained documentation pages is better than a forum which may have lots of duplicate posts on similar topics, long discussions with lots of tangents that may, or may not, reach a solution at the end and, in many cases, posts that were once correct, but which have since been superseded by later changes in Moodle.
Obviously, that is assuming that there is organised, maintained documentation, which is not always the case...
A forum works if there is a critical mass of people a) posting on it, b) reading the posts and c) replying to the posts once they've read them. It doesn't matter how critical a feature is, or how good a business case there is for it, if you haven't got enough people doing a), b) and c), then it would be far better for those discussions to take place as a subset of the discussion in a far busier forum.
I'm not going to attempt to make a judgement about whether or not there is a critical mass of people in this case, but it does not follow that the importance of a particular feature should automatically mean that a new, separate forum would be the best way to look after/progress that feature.
Davo, while you aren't prepared to make an attempt at a judgement . . .
- Fact: The media/embedding/.deploying/uploading issue is important
- Fact: There is a high post volume: at least one new discussion a day plus replies
- I'm making a judgement "There is a critical mass" of people.
- I'm saying it's worth a try with a forum.
This "Re the documentation" is a complete side-track. Since I bit it, here it goes:
The question revolves at three levels:
- Level 1: Is documentation a substitute for forums in general?
- Level 2: Can a Moodle Doc (or Docs) replace a Moodle forum?
- Level 3: Would https://docs.moodle.org/en/Video (and its future leaf pages) a sufficient replacement for a dedicated Video forum on moodle.org?
Here is my personal opinion:
- Level 1: In a closely defined technical topic, it could. But practically and psychologically it won't. I know, people google. But the majority can not immediately absorb the information presented and make a judgement. They appreciate if there is a human on the other side who listens to their problems and worries and then gives _the_ answer to their problem.
- Level 2: As said above, in a closely defined technical topic, yes. But Moodle Docs are not defined at all and not organized. It follows the search phrase kind of pages which are only "loosly connected" at best. And then those loose pages get multiplied every six months. Sorry, no chance!
- Level 3. I don't know enough about videos nor about their usage in Moodle have an opinion. Hoping to learn by actively participating in the (future) discussions. Would appreciate if those topics appear concentrated in one place rather than spread out in all thinkable forums.
About critical mass, read what I just said to Marcus: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=313462#p1266941.
P.S. Mary, What is the kind of syntax you use, when you switch the subject by saying:
> Re the documentation, those who know about different video file types on different devices (not me, particularly) are very welcome to improve the documentation on Video
"Re the documentation"? Who talked of the documentation, before you I mean? In mailing lists we change the subject line for this. For example, "Video documentation (was Wasn't there a dedicated Forum ...).
I've just taken another look at the documentation you refer to, and I must say it's not very beginner-friendly. I'd also add, it's not really very teacher-friendly either as the information seems to be more focused at admins. Generally, there are very few "Howto's" in the documentation (not just the video page!).
What would be good is to have a walkthrough that takes any source video and preferably uses an online tool to convert it into a format which will embed in any Moodle installation. Part Two would be a walkthrough the embedding process (including the settings in the relevant filters). So, just using the multimedia filters, or using the Poodll filters, or some other plugin.
Before you reply, "then do it, and post it here," I will do just that. I'm working on a Moodle course for ELT teachers which is focussing on using Moodle to teach rather than the language content itself. I'll be putting it together over the Summer, and will happily share that part of it here. There are quite a few howto's available in different blogs and on Youtube. Some work, and some don't, and therefore I'm trying to find the lowest common denominator - a sort of, "if all else fails, then you can at least do that!"
The key issue is identifying a base configuration which will work irrespective of what else has been installed. The hierarchy of the filters is important and it needs to be something which, where possible, doesn't require anything more from the administrator than turning the filters on.
Having said all that, it doesn't alter what I've already posted here. I really believe that video is sufficiently critical (and tricky) to require its own forum.
All the best
I think this is useful input.
In some respect (as Visvanath pointed out) this is talking about the problem of video rather than the issue of "can we have a forum?"
Mary, Andy says: "The key issue is identifying a base configuration which will work irrespective of what else has been installed" A useful goal.
re Docs: Andy have you done anything yet? And which specific pages?
re forum: And Helen and Mary, have you any conclusion to our reques, or are you still thinking?
@Mary, I did not add my thoughts to the 'core' docs wiki because they were a little more speculative, and could not be authoritative. I wrote a brief on dev.moodle.org on the topic of forums and Martin told me this was not how they did things.
Re videos and docs: so next attempt was in the docs.moodle.org: https://docs.moodle.org/27/en/Curated_list/Video_clips in the docs, but not linked into the 'core' part - when you decided they were 'not part of the official documentation' and told me you were not going to migrate them to 2.8 or 2.9 and suggested Google docs, i just gave up on this work.
(Also, Mary, as probably the most famous personal trainer in Moodle in the world (and probably the Galaxy, or at least the known Universe, it is a bit presumptious to talk a ouy parts of the universe I do not know about) I asked you about this here: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=268909#p1160638 last year in September. "What do you suggest in your workshops that people do?" "What workflow do you suggest?" You say you 'don't know about this stuff" but you can tell us what you teach as a workflow. If things need geeks to describe, it to too complex.
@All: Also: in some respects we need help from Moodle HQ here. I've asked several question on why things are as they are in video are and only got no answers and one response. eg https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-46762 https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-46762
I may be worrying over semantics. What is an 'important' issue? MoodleHQ (the wonderful guys there) have lots of pressures. Is video actually important? If it is, then pay some attention to it sometimes. Maybe a few hundred brain cycles a year. If you guys DON'T regard it as important, then tell us. I now have several messages from our Rogerian counsellors in the Tracker: "Nice idea, how about you code it yourself?" What I feel (as a general comment) is silence, and non-reply on what I regard as critical issues. eg. Scroll of Death. Drag and drop. Enrolment. Reports. Forums. One-one communication. I often wonder if we took a vote what the resulkts would be.
If I reflect a little, there is at present no good mechanism to manage these conversations. In some ways this is why I asked Martin for a return to the old roadmap. https://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?f=32&page=10 55 posts so far, but nothing official. https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=265939
But I am probably talking to myself. What I think is 'important' may bear no relevance to anyone else. I've suggested this may be worth researching actually (back in the days of Tomas)
This has proved a much longer post than I planned. I apologise for TLDR;
I don't want to be critical of coders at HQ. Outside pressures are huge, and I don't want to put down any of the work.
I won't be able to start on it for a week or ten days, as I've got a lot of end of year things crashing about my ears at the moment. I've set up a blank server though and will get onto it as soon as possible. I'll post for feedback here when I've got a theory!
All the best
Andy: how are you going with the work on the docs? Have you seen the other threads, eg https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=318029
Helen and Mary: any thoughts about the request for a video forum? Do you need any more information?
I've just got back from a couple of weeks grilling myself by a Bulgarian pool! I'm working on a couple of possible solutions and will post a suggestion for testing in the next day or two.
All the best
Just coming back here to see if there was any action.
I notice two of the recent high level Moodle sites use video solutions I have not seen before.
- UNSW: The Box https://teaching.unsw.edu.au/thebox Looks like it could be a Netspot thing.
- Connect (Mgraw Hill) http://www.connectschool.ca/login/connect/support.php
Have I missed anything from Helen or Mary?
An interesting and lively conversation going here, and hopefully productive. My experiences of using multimedia and helping others to use multimedia have been informative.
First of all, blowing my own trumpet...
I am geeky, an auto-didact, enjoy challenges, and am not afraid to get stuck into Moodle code. I've also been working with video since the analogue days of U-matic, Betamax, and VHS. I understand CODECs and media containers and I can usually get to the bottom of why videos deployed online may work one day and not the next. I developed the SWF Activity Module and, an offshoot, the Media Player module, in the days of Moodle 1.9, in order to overcome the shortcomings of Moodle's media filters and its infuriating insistence on changing/breaking media embed code. As a result, I've become known as the Moodle "Flash/video guy" and frequently get emails asking for help in tones ranging from preliminary inquiry to exasperation and desperation, i.e. "I need to fix this now!!!"
I agree that the Moodle documentation is inappropriate for teachers and learners and there needs to be more information about "How to..." so that people can find the answers they're looking for.
What if the question we asked ourselves was more along the lines of, "What can we do now that would make it easier for non-teksavvy teachers and learners to deploy video and multimedia in Moodle?" At the moment, it's involved, complicated, and fraught with problems requiring specific help in each use-case-scenario. With this in mind I agree with those here who favour a dedicated forum for such problems.
This today in my feeds:
A new version of JW player. Now with no watermark it seems.
Matt? Any comments? Is this a good choice for Moodle?
AFAIK, JWPlayer has never been free and open source and there are restrictions on using it, e.g. for commercial applications, for which there is a licence fee.
The JWPlayer company seem to be going in the direction of becoming a video hosting service provider and so are going into competition with the rest of the 3rd party, paid for/freemium providers.
Their source code is available at Github.com: https://github.com/jwplayer/jwplayer
In the days of Flash only audio and video playback, I used their JW Player in a plugin module because it supported a lot of features that were useful for online learning. The HTML5 player only has a small subset of those features.
Talking of embedded video players, did you know this: Moodle 3.0 automatic embedded videos https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=323831&parent=1301180 ?
Yes, the Moodle multimedia embedding filter now converts a wider range of video formats into players. Apart from this, I can't see any more changes - perhaps I'm missing something?
In the multimedia filters section there's no parameters for setting preferred width and height (Imagine if Moodle didn't allow you to resize images!) or to prioritise Flash or HTML5 players, i.e. Flash with an HTML5 fallback or HTML5 with a Flash fallback. Being HTML5 embed method, it also doesn't provide the opportunity to include additional alternative video source URLs, in case the users' browser doesn't support OGV, for example.
Unless there's something I've missed somewhere, Moodle still lags far behind other content management systems where video embedding is concerned. Would it be so difficult to develop an Atto plugin for video that works as least as well as the embed image plugin? Is that too much to ask?
Matt, my most recent connection with this issue was an LMS (that shall remain nameless) seeking to replace Moodle at one of the places I work. A key selling point was "We do video properly". Anyone wanting to support Moodle did not have a leg to stand on.
I have posted here: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-47049, you may find Andrew's comment interesting.
Do videoeasy, videofile or generico have anything to offer?
I'm interested to note one of the themes I've tested recently has a setting to determine % width of video.
EDIT: Just noticed this: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=323831#p1301180 This is at least a small (tiny?) step.
Interesting, they seem to be interested in enhancing how Moodle video embed works rather than reforming it. Automatic detection and sizing of videos isn't as useful as making embedding video and viewing easier, e.g. How about a resizeable video player window?
I think it helps to look at other CMS solutions, e.g. for Wordpress (more than half the world's websites use Wordpress so they must be doing something right):
- JW Player 7 for WordPress https://wordpress.org/plugins/jw-player-7-for-wp/
- Video Embed & Thumbnail Generator: https://wordpress.org/plugins/video-embed-thumbnail-generator/
- FV WordPress Flowplayer: https://wordpress.org/plugins/fv-wordpress-flowplayer/
There are user friendly solutions already coded and implemented. All we need to do is adapt them for TinyMCE and Atto.
In the community since 2006, and a PHM? I can't believe that you can't see through the morale of all this, that would be an insult. I allude your comments to diplomatic stubbornness.
Sorry for my lapidory language - The morale is: Where is the business case? We all know that after the great moodle.org clean-up exceptions were made. But they either had a business case or were "high profile". You and me don't talk of those things. Just forget it!
Side note: We just heard, "Are there a number of people regularly posting in threads about video / media?" If that person bothered at least to go through the discussions you and I provided, he would have met the marvelous people who regularly contribute to the video realm of Moodle.
[The thread is marked CLOSED]
For the moderators...
I just did an advanced search looking for posts with "video" in the subject line since the 1st August this year.
There were 112.
For me that would make the basis of a pretty active forum.
Is there anything against giving a video forum (or audio/video forum) a try? (There were 7 posts with "audio" in the same timescale.)
If it's a question of needing moderators, I'd be more than willing to help out.
All the best