Moodle in English: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

The integration or inclusion of java applets could be disastrous for any project including Moodle.

a) How much of Moodle is java applets?

b) Is the development community of Moodle asked to keep Moodle java-applet free?

c) Can one contribute source code for Moodles development as java applets with Moodle's approval and acceptance?

d) If so, how are these applets tested for compliance and reliability over an array of different machines?

c) Could y-notes have been written in non java? y-notes may have been written well and perhaps is stable on every machine I dont know if thats true.

The underlining reason for these questions is that many if not most java applets will crash machines or make things mis-behave - if not now it will later while you are running your OS (MAC or PC). Then your machine is locked or frozen, you must reboot by force. Unfortunately the java virtual machine does not work. Thus java applets and poorly written ones not adhereing to good practices are not constraint to a set of tight rules that would allow applets to behave predictably on similar or different machines. For this reason I stay away from jave applets - java scritplets are fine - but not applets.

So to build MODs that contain java applets may not be a wise decision.

Rick

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Martin Dougiamas - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 1:35 AM

There is no Java in Moodle and none likely to be. I have the same feelings as you do about Java. To me Flash is what Java was promised to be.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Ger Tielemans - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 1:46 AM

OK, then write your y-notes replacement in a scriplets wink

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Marcus Green - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 4:40 AM

Rick, some of your comments seem to be outside your area of expertise. I have been using Applets since around 1995 and my experience is entirely at odds with your comments. However, the good news is (as has been commented elsewhere) Moodle has NO mandatory Java. In addition Martin prefers Flash to Java for "in browser execution" which is not my preference, but still a perfectly reasonable choice.

Note my comments are based on fairly continuous experience programming and using Java since around 1997.

It is a case of the best tool for the job. So for server side dynamic generation of HTML, PHP is my first choice, well ahead of either Perl, or Java Servlets (both of which I have extensive experience with).

If you absolutly must have code executing within your browser then for me, Java Applets are the No 1 choice for reasons of maturity, security and portability.

However there are very, very few occasions when this is necessary. Flash was primarily developed for animated vector graphics, for which it has no paralell, and later in its life it has begun to have some of the features that allow it to perform the type of functionality of Java Applets.

One compelling reason to choose Flash is that it the client is installed in so many web browsers.

And last of all, javascript is the spawn of the devil....

If anyone want to tell me to shut up on this subject, I will understand.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Ger Tielemans - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 4:47 AM

The point is that there are so many stand alone educational java applets, that I still feel very sad, that as soon as such an applet brings a library to Moodle, you cannot use that Applet INSIDE Moodle... You have to store it as admin - by hand outside the moodle resources folder:

THAT GOES AGAINST THE MOODLE DREAM OF NO EXTRA WORK FOR THE ADMIN See gas.zip

(How to make an envelop for such a case?)

gas2.zip

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Marcus Green - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 5:32 AM

Good point Ger, Good point.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Rick Blanc - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 6:35 AM

THAT GOES AGAINST THE MOODLE DREAM OF NO EXTRA WORK FOR THE ADMIN

If the technology compromises a system - where is the dream? Java applets are not stable and can produce - virus-like symtoms. It is the Virtual Machine model that is faulty and to blame.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Marcus Green - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 6:43 AM

Rick: can you give some URL's with more information about the instability of Java applets and how they produce virus-like symptoms?.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Rick Blanc - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 12:26 PM

Sure Marcus,

Why not "Bells and Whistles?"
Most of the things that move, or that change on the screen after a web page has been downloaded, require little programs, called "applets," that must be either imbedded into the web page or downloaded along with it. These applets are then executed by the processor in the visitor's machine, and can consume computer resources that older and slower computer systems can ill afford to spare. Some of them -- Java applets in particular -- can carry viruses that can infect your computer in a variety of harmful ways. For this reason, some sophisticated computer users, like me, operate their browsers with Java disabled, thus blocking many of the fancy features that webmasters charge so much to provide.
http://webspinners.com/WS/soyouthink/whatkind.php

The Java concurrency architecture is based on threads, which encourage the creation of delicate software systems that are vulnerable to sudden and catastrophic lock-up after deployment because of undetectable deadlock bugs
http://www.combex.com/about/competition.html

JAVA applets are becoming more and more popular. Maybe a little too popular. Many sites have applet after applet on only one page. Doing that can cause the browser to lock up, or at least seem like it since it is using all your processor time trying to load the applets one after the other http://www.realinternetbusiness.com/technologies.html

Its no secret that supposedly portable Java clients do not run the same on all platforms. For one thing, the byte stream and memory handling are different for Microsoft Windows, Apple Macintosh and Unix. If developers know what theyre writing for, its easier to make Java work. But the one-size-fits-all claims are bogus. http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/may18/java_is_snow_miser_of_public.htm

Browsinform Technical Description Because of the way Java applets work within the browser, the browser may keep a copy ... memory overload in a different fashion and may or may not lock up your PC ...

Java is fairly rough on system resources and can cause some browsers to lock up when viewing a web page. It is a good idea to limit the use of java applets in general -- remembering that there still is a good number of users out there with older versions of internet software. http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/wizards/webmasters.html

You might attempt to run the applets and your browser would freeze and lock-up your operating system with some damnable memory over-write which could generate a severe I/O error. http://www.cubethis.com/java.htm

I searched on "jave applets and "lock up"

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Marcus Green - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 6:51 PM

Well done in finding URL's to support your thesis. However they are a mixture of the untrue the exaggerated and the plain foolish.First the untrue.

http://webspinners.com/WS/soyouthink/whatkind.php

"Some of them -- Java applets in particular -- can carry viruses that can infect your computer in a variety of harmful ways"

Java applets execute in a "Sandbox" which prevents them writing to your local file system without explicitly and obviously asking to do so first. There has been no recorded I emphasise NO recorded incident of virus infection from a standard Java applet

Let's compare this with some other technologies, e.g. JavaScript (no relation to Java), various versions of JavaScript have allowed direct writing to the local file system, i.e., a web page could delete everything on your hard disk. How about ActiveX (or whatever they are calling it this week). It has no concept of security and thus again could simply wipe your hard disk.

I'd be interested to hear of comments on Flash and security, which by the way I have not heard anything bad about in relation to security.

"The Java concurrency architecture is based on threads, which encourage the creation of delicate software systems that are vulnerable to sudden and catastrophic lock-up after deployment because of undetectable deadlock bugs"

http://www.combex.com/about/competition.html

There is no connetion between Threading and "delicate software systems that are vulnerable and catastrophic lock-ups", a passing knowledge of software development would indicate this is a confused, confusing and bizzare view of technology. Modern operating systems include Threading technology, modern programming languages include threading technologies.

"Its no secret that supposedly portable Java clients do not run the same on all platforms. For one thing, the byte stream and memory handling are different for Microsoft Windows, Apple Macintosh and Unix. If developers know what theyre writing for, its easier to make Java work. But the one-size-fits-all claims are bogus."

http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/may18/java_is_snow_miser_of_public.htm

Now here we come to a hint of truth. Microsoft created what one of its executives called a "polluted" version of Java that broke some of the compatibility goals of Java. As a result of legal action they have been restrained from doing this. The current standard Java plugin offers the most binary portable execution environment ever. This means the same binary will run unmodified on Windows/Linux/Unix/Macintosh. That is not to say that it is not possible to find some combination of hardware and operating system that will have issues, it is certainly possible to find such a combination. In the same way it is possible to find some combination of Windows/Hardware/Patching that will cause a standard windows program to have problems.

"Java is fairly rough on system resources and can cause some browsers to lock up when viewing a web page. It is a good idea to limit the use of java applets in general -- remembering that there still is a good number of users out there with older versions of internet software. http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/wizards/webmasters.html"

Again I agree with this, use applets where you are likely to benefit from their abilities. If you browse sites with applets on a machine with 64 MB of RAM you may well get poor performance.

"You might attempt to run the applets and your browser would freeze and lock-up your operating system with some damnable memory over-write which could generate a severe I/O error. http://www.cubethis.com/java.htm"

I do wish people would write about subjects they actually know about. If you visit a page with a large applet you may get a long delay as it is downloaded. You will not get a memory over write, you will not get an I/O error, why? Because Java does not include the ability to write to arbitrary memory addresses, it does not have the ability to write to your file system. It is possible that a faulty JVM falls over, but that is like blaming HTML as the problem if your browser cannot render it.

Rick, what email client do you use, do you disable JavaScript when browsing?

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Martin Dougiamas - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 8:06 PM

The crowd circled around, the chant started low and slow and became louder and faster ... fight fight FIGHT FIGHT!!!

Sorry, I'm in a silly mood(le).

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Martin Dougiamas - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 10:06 AM

That arrangement (html file calling applet file) should work fine in Moodle ... the problem in this particular case is that the applet doesn't work OUTSIDE Moodle either. Below are some errors from my Java console. Perhaps Marcus can debug it for you, Ger.

java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: particle2D


    at idealGas.reset(idealGas.java:84)


    at idealGas.init(idealGas.java:32)


    at sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(Unknown Source)


    at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Marcus Green - Thursday, 17 June 2004, 2:25 AM

I'ts got a class file missing, without that it won't work. You only have part of the application.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Herbert Keijers - Thursday, 17 June 2004, 3:20 AM

One of the things that are missed :

java.lang.Object
  |
  +--model.particle.Particle2D

Even an import java.lang.Object;
won't solved the problem.

I agree with Marcus that the code in incomplete.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by koen roggemans - Thursday, 17 June 2004, 3:22 AM

I remained silent, thinking I was doing stupid things. Not this time! blauw oog

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SO, share my applet dreams

by Ger Tielemans - Thursday, 17 June 2004, 4:52 AM

This is the (NEW LOOK) website where it comes from:

http://www.phy.ntnu.edu.tw/ntnujava/ so, share my applet dreams

The IdealGas: http://www.phy.ntnu.edu.tw/ntnujava/viewtopic.php?t=42

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by W Page - Thursday, 17 June 2004, 5:43 AM

"The IdealGas" is a nice example of JAVA, Ger.

WP1

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An applet a day keeps the....

by Ger Tielemans - Thursday, 17 June 2004, 3:32 PM

The idea is (until all these examples become available in Flash )...

To cut everyday an applet from the java-tree.
Then, you "fill in" an educational html leaflet around it and you end up with an interactiv educational page.
If I as admin could create an Applet store, and only had to give these fill-in leaflets to the teachers, then everyone could write his own instruction paper for his level of students.

Sorry, dreaming again

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by Andy Diament - Thursday, 17 June 2004, 5:08 PM

For my physics teaching, I do use a lot of applets (Including the NTNU set); many of my links at http://www.geocities.com/andydiament/online contain good looking, interactive applets that I find invaluable.

It's a dilemma - I rarely experience crashes from these pages used on their own, just hate the long startup. It will be a long time, if ever for similar resources to be available in flash whilst they already exist in java

Oh, and a little matter with running the NTNU simulations locally - I contacted Dr Hwang, the author a couple of years ago: he wouldn't let me dowload selective applets unless I agreed to become a mirror. Many of the good applets available are sadly not open source....

Andy D

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by Nadja Kutz - Saturday, 19 June 2004, 2:12 AM

Andy, have you considered using JAVAWEBSTART for "caching" java
applets? Especially for bigger experiments type "applets"
javawebstart avoids repititive downloads, since the webstart
applications are cached and checked against new versions
only. Some examples can be found at
http://www.math.tu-berlin.de/geometrie/lab/
..they are math applets---but sometimes there is some overlapp
with physics

Nadja

P.S. Adding something to the general JAVA discussion:

-the applets which you find under the above link
could not be realized with flash.

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by Andy Diament - Friday, 25 June 2004, 10:52 PM

Thanks for the link, Nadja; what application do I need to view them?

I had a quick search for JAVAWEBSTART - can it be used to cache applets drawn from the web; are there copyright or ethical aspects where the material is not marked as open source?

I've had about 1/2 an hour experience of FLASH: it would be interesting to know how far it can go to replacing the jave simulations I know and love

Andy D

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by Andrea Bicciolo - Saturday, 26 June 2004, 12:16 AM

Andy, about Flash I think it can go as far as you want. We use Flash both for simple game and simulations and work pretty well, not to mention the player ubiquity.

The turnkey in using Flash (like Java, I think) is a good knowledge of Actionscript and Flash object model: forget timeline based stuff and go for Actionscript, you can do amazing interactions with very few lines of code. If interested I would suggest the book ActionScript for Flash MX from Colin Moock.

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by Andy Diament - Saturday, 26 June 2004, 2:49 AM

Andrea, thanks for the tip - I will look at Flash this summer, unfortunately it's got to go on the list, behind 258 exam papers, 2 reports on moodle related activity, the washing up....

Seriously, I tinkered with java on and off for a while but never had time to really invest in it. Would really like to create more interactive stuff of my own ... those are my 'applet' dreams

Andy D

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by Chardelle Busch - Saturday, 26 June 2004, 7:56 AM

Hi Guys,

I just thought I'd add a little sidenote here. I'm glad to see that this thread is going a little way toward Flash. It's ubiquitous, and if you don't laden up the files with large images, etc., and if you stream(load externally) the audio, etc. files, it works very well even at 56K, and its easy to upload to the course files (if I can do it, anybody can). There are several PHP scripts available for doing things in Flash, like sending an email, and maybe someday the Moodle database will be able to communicate with flash files--Flash is great for interactive quizzes. thoughtful

In case you are interested, Andy, I wanted to mention a program I use called Swish. (www.swishzone.com) There are two versions, about $50 and $100 (Swishmax). With Swishmax you can actually synch an added audio file with the actions -- good for presentations but will make a larger file. My point though, is that it is easy to use. I have Macromedia MX, love Dreamweaver and Fireworks, but my mind would just go numb trying to figure out Flash. Swish has several community boards with lots of examples to download. I can just copy and paste the action scripts, add text,etc., and I have a .swf. For anybody wanting to try Flash, this might save you some time and money. wink

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by Marcus Green - Saturday, 26 June 2004, 4:55 PM

I have heard good things about swish and the demo version is on my machine at the moment. The killer feature for Flash is the ubiquity of the player.

One of the reasons Flash has a bad repuation with some people (e.g. me) is that it is a tool that makes it easy to create slow content. It is very easy to import lots of bitmaps to create quite good looking yet horribly slow to load content. The trick to avoiding this is to use the absolute minimal of bi map content and go wherever possible for Vector based content. Unfortunatly creating Vector Based content requires more skill, and thus the world is full off horrid fat slow bitmapped content Flash. Just because a tool makes it easy to create bad content, doesn't make it mandatory

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by Nadja Kutz - Sunday, 27 June 2004, 3:35 PM

Andrea have you seen the examples at:
http://www.math.tu-berlin.de/geometrie/lab/ ?
Obviously Flash is a good choice for
interactive application that do not involve
too complex structure.
At least when I looked at Flash one year ago

it did not look feasible to use it for say
numerical ODE solving or TRUE 3D Rendering.
I think action script is still more or less
interpreted and cannot compete to a runtime
optimizing just-in-time compiler.
and for visual java sugar look at www.processing.org.

nadja

p.s. i think there was actually once a flash
player which was written in Java

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by N Hansen - Sunday, 27 June 2004, 11:06 PM

I have no particular reason to speak up for or against Flash but as editor of a website with a large Flash component that has won many top internet awards and has been called by some the best use of Flash ever I had to just share with you our website just to show you that Flash can really work very nicely. Check out:

http://www.thebanmappingproject.com

Click on "Launch Atlas" and in particular choose the Atlas of the Valley of the Kings and you will see what amazing things can be done in Flash if you've got good designers working on it.

Most of the content in the Flash component is also available in html for those who don't or can't use Flash, so we did offer alternative accessibility.

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by Hans de Zwart - Monday, 28 June 2004, 12:54 AM

That is gorgeous!! It runs so beautiful on my computer.Makes me want to pick up my Flash MX bible and spend the next weeks learning how to use flash.

Compliments.

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by Nadja Kutz - Sunday, 27 June 2004, 3:24 PM

you need javawebstart to view the examples at
the above adress.
javawebstart is included in recent java versions.
Under windows I think it should be registered as handler for
.jnlp files automatically. Under linux/mozilla you need to
tell the browser the helper application "javaws" once
in the download/start with helper dialog.
You should find it at
"path_to_your_javainstallation/jre/javaws/javaws"

Now if you have viewed some of the examples through javaws you
can start javaws (the above executable) directly and it
will offer you all the examples for launching even if you are offline.

Note that offline viewing can be disabled by the person
who provides the examples - I guess this gives some partial
answer to your copyright question.

nadja

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Re: SO, share my applet dreams

by Andy Diament - Monday, 28 June 2004, 5:08 PM

Hiya, foudn a machine with javawebstart installed and now I see the point, those maths simulations are superb: I shall look for uses for them....

Best regards, Andy D

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Herbert Keijers - Thursday, 17 June 2004, 3:11 AM

Hi Ger,
As Martin already answered this problem is not about java-moodle but more about a not so good java "programmeur" thoughtful

If I compile idealGas.java there a errors ( used the borland compiler).
First of all, your applet should run locally, then there is no problem putting it in moodle.
You don't have to be admin of your moodle environnement to do that.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Ger Tielemans - Thursday, 17 June 2004, 4:59 AM

That is my point:

If I have a program that calls another library in the resources area of Moodle, how can I as normal teacher convince Moodle to look in the right dir and give it back...

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Marcus Green - Thursday, 17 June 2004, 5:24 AM

If you can get me all the .class files for that applets I can experiment with how you can make it work. Note that one of the problems in integrating applets in Java is because of the rather tight security within Java. When the JVM loads an applet it does not simply rely on the browser it takes a look itself. It expects the class file to come from the same domain as the enclosing page. I have just been playing with setting .class file as part of an embedded moodle resource and it doesn't like it at all.

It is however quite easy to set up a moodle html page but to refer to an applet somewhere else in the tree of that domaon. Of course you loose plenty of the benefits of an "embedded resource" within moodle. By the way, that applet is a good example of something that would be tricky to do using any alternative to Java. I suspect it could be done with Flash, but then again you can also peel a potatoe with a shoelace if you try hard enough.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Bernard Boucher - Friday, 18 June 2004, 9:16 AM

Hi Ger,

I don't understand clearly your problem.

Try here ( teacher/teacher ) 2 Applets that works fine. The files are in the course file folder and appears as ressources. The first applet is identified as ouside Moodle. The second as an uploaded ressource.

You only have to take care of the codebase statement in the applet. ( if it is present )

If you have a particular working wink

applet I will be pleased to try it in Moodle.

I hope it may help,

Bernard

p.s. Applets come from there.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Marcus Green - Friday, 18 June 2004, 2:52 PM

Thanks bernard, perhaps I couldn't see a codebase on either of yours, so perhaps I was over complicating things. I didn't actually get any output from yours, but then again I didn't any error in the java console. I'll have another fiddle with mine. Thanks for the response, I would like to get a solution to this as I am doing some Java courses, and although Applets form only a very minor component, it would be nice to include actual Applets rather than screenshots of them.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Herbert Keijers - Saturday, 19 June 2004, 3:03 AM

( the little duck did it again ...

seeing the long discussion ...)
Ger,
I'm not quite shure if I fully understand your question but I give it a go ...

Pack all your class files in a Java Archive, a so called *.jar file (should contain a manifest).
Make a html file that calls the applet.
Zip the (2) files. Upload it to your Moodle and let Moodle unzip it in the directory.
Use the resource , uploaded file module and link to the html file. It should work ...
No admin inteference needed ...

As an example I attached a zip containing the html and jar file.
"Borowed" it from Bernard Boucher (thanks

)
Tested in both IE and Mozilla (the new firefox 0.9) since they use different Virtual Machines.

osc1.zip

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Marcus Green - Saturday, 19 June 2004, 6:21 AM

Ahh Bernard and Herbert, I have now got an applet working as a proper moodle resource by having it embedded in an uploaded HTML file. My mistake previously was trying to point to it from within a moodle html resource (i.e. some html I create and edit in moodle). It would still be very nice to work out how to do that, but meanwhile it is most excellent that I can actually use an applet within an uploaded html page. Thanks chaps.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Rick Blanc - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 7:00 AM

Marcus,

Perhaps you are correct about my expertise. Does it take a expert to know when ever a java applet executes that unpredictable events happens.

Let's say that out of every ten applets is one bad one. These are not bad numbers at all - right?

First of all when java applets execute - you most likely will not be flagged immediately. It is when seemingly unrelated evens happens that applets are suspect.

For instance: when an applet executes and is resident and your machine goes into a sleep mode - it may not wake up or it may not go to sleep. Many users are not aware that java applets have compromised their machines.

It would be interesting if you did candidly ask Martin what are all the reasons he is not enthused with java applets.

I have experimented with java applets running ad banners viewing them with browsers on Macs and PCs and found they sooner or later locked up these machines. Because the lock up happen 30 minutes to a period greater than an hour, the client did not suspect it was the applet.

Oh, I may add, browser compliance is also an issue.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Marcus Green - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 7:00 PM

I was commenting on the expertise of the people who were writing on the web stie, not yours, you were just doing the reasonable thing of quoting from people who have put together convincing pages.

Let me emphasise again Java Applets cannot compromise your macine as they cannot write to your local system (unlike JavaScript for example).

There are very few situations where Applets are truly necessary, but where they are there is no substitute. A good reason to use them is for a whiteboard system for example. I guess I am going to have to put my time where my mouth is and look at that code that Martin mentioned.

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by W Page - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 11:10 PM

Hi Marcus,

I have been trying to learn enough coding to develop a WhiteBoard Chat for Moodle that would also provide for audio and video chat if possible. I want to enable the Admin or Instructior to be able to configure the features for the type of chat they wanted for individuals and groups (to encourage cooperative learning) as well as teacher to student and teacher to teacher interaction). With my coding abilities, acomplishing this will be a long time in the coming. You appear to have a handle on JAVA. If you could get this going that would be great.

The discussion that I brought this up in the past was,
Addition of Whiteboard - Chat ? / Need Input
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=4351

Some resources that I found which are open source (I think),
Remote Language Teaching
http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/software/relate-ui/

Tulka Whiteboard
http://giotto.mathematik.uni-tuebingen.de/~mibe/tulka/

Babylon Java Chat
http://www.visopsys.org/andy/babylon/

Eventually someone may make such a WhiteBoard/Chat client with Flash but I think people need options for the different type of customizations they are trying to achieve and what is available on their servers.

Hope you decide to take on this challenge.

WP1

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Marcus Green - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 11:40 PM

Sod dang and blast Mr P, looks like I have talked myself into this one. Will investigate....

Marcus

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by W Page - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 11:57 PM

Thanks Marcus!

WP1

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Chardelle Busch - Saturday, 21 August 2004, 10:53 PM

Hi Marcus, Regarding WP's whiteboard "request" I wanted to mentioned a nice little open source java whiteboard: http://sourceforge.net/projects/surabaya/ (The html editor has just gone nutty--so I can't link this) There is no audio or video--but I think this would be a great start (and why not give administrators a java/flash chat choice?) toward a more synchronous Moodle. Chardelle

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by W Page - Sunday, 22 August 2004, 1:15 PM

Hi Chardelle!

I feel that when it comes to the chat feature, Moodle should have many options depending on the particular educational setting. For example, some folks can run JAVA or the Macromedia Communicator on their servers. This will allow for different chat formats and features.

Also, someone is working on a chat client which will not need special plugins and still provide some type of WhiteBoard and AV as well.

WP1

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Ger Tielemans - Wednesday, 29 September 2004, 5:48 AM

Another whiteboard+jabber: http://sourceforge.net/projects/coccinella/

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Marcus Green - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 11:37 PM

To go back to Ricks original question

Moodle does not require any Java Applets to be installed.

Chief Guru, Metaphysical inspirator and leader Dougimass does not like, desire or want Java Applets

One of the most keen , experienced gung ho Java Programmer and promotor (me) doesn't recommend them except in unusual cases such as the drawboard/live chat(where they would be entirely optional)

Java Applets cannot infect you with a Virus,.

JavaScript can damage your system and Microsoft mail clients will. So if you are concerned about security don't use a Microsoft mail client and turn off JavaScript (your web experience will be a bit dull but you will get an idea of the relative risks of technologies vs benefits).

And look here Dougimass I'm 6ft 3in 15stone tall and skilled in the black arts of advanced procrastination.

Marcus

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Re: Moodle's Co- existence With Java Applets - or does it?

by Martin Dougiamas - Wednesday, 16 June 2004, 11:44 PM

Tee hee hee

I had this image of you proudly standing on a mountaintop somewhere with your arms and one leg frozen in the air.

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