Hello
I am a long-time but irregular moodle user. One of the long-standing problems with moodle is the issue of its general appearance and general prettiness. Is there somewhere a list of recommendations on how to make moodle more attractive to students both on the front page and inside? Is there a list of themes which are particularly flexible? etc...
Thank you for any thoughts
Andrew
Agreed, however, "prettiness" is not a term I would offer, and it does take a bit of effort to improve the look. The Front Page FAQ offers a couple of suggestions on how to improve the look, take a more visual approach, as well as a number of links to more specific techniques with specific themes.
Moodle was first written at a time when the triple column was still something of the Holy Grail of HTML. Martin has never mentioned it, but my suspicion has always been that Moodle's earliest versions were coded around the "Nuke" and/or "Post-Nuke" PHP shells which were seriously inflexible. There were so many PHP apps using those shells, for the triple column effect, Moodle could have used any one of them as a "standard". Like any "standard" once adopted, it becomes difficult to break out of it, but that is happening now. Fortunately, time and design is taking care of that problem, if I understand it correctly. There are a number of variations of themes being discussed right now and if the Bootstrap themes, like More or Clean, provide the flexibility they promise, it should become a lot easier to redesign and implement your own theme.
Andrew, have you looked at the plugins database themes? There are five or six (or more) really cool themes there.
https://moodle.org/plugins/browse.php?list=category&id=3
For interest, check out this: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=314373
Do you mean "general prettiness" or "general ugliness"?
Plus you can make Moodle look like Facebook if you really want to.
Good luck.
-Derek
Thanks to both of you. It is nice to know something of the history of the design but....
I guess things are improving a bit and I will look at the new themes etc. However, I suspect it is mainly the front page that gets improved and the insides of moodle look pretty much the same.
Thanks
Andrew
This is one of those hardy perennials, but it really needs some concrete suggestions. Maybe many of us are now too close.
However, I often here 'more professional', 'more web-two-point-oh', 'more pretty' etc. etc. To actually do something about it, concrete suggestions are needed or examples of other websites to emulate (and even then more specifics than, "make it like that!").
Many of the more recent 'Bootstrap' based themes certainly make Moodle look more up to date, even if they do not make it look fundamentally different. This sort of design work is difficult.
You are right of course Howard. But there are other LMS systems around that do look "better" in every way. There are even WordPress-based LMS systems which are highly flexible in terms of appearance.
Appearance does not seem to have been a priority at the time of its invention and, for some reason, it has never become much of a priority.
This is a pity as Moodle has so much going for it. There are also other "prettiness" issues, maybe just clunkiness, which are irritating and need cleaning up (e.g. the way SCORM modules are presented).
Anyway... just thinking aloud
Andrew, below is a screen shot of my own Moodle. I think it compares favorably to BB, D2L, and Canvas), but I am a little biased. I created this by simply using the standard MORE theme, adding a background image within MORE, and adding some CSS code to make it more attractive to me. Except for the CSS, most of this is simple and you can explore and be as creative as you want. With MORE, it is also "responsive" so it works on mobile devices.
How much one can customize a theme in Site Administration, Themes, your theme, depends upon the theme itself. For example, MORE offers more than Clean.
By the way, as you look at this picture, I like to make all hyperlinks appear in maroon (red).
Thank you Rick. Good advice.
Cheers
Andrew
Hi Rick,
What you did there was very good. Mind telling me the steps on how to create that? (of course I'm going to do a different style).
Thank you in advance.
Sure.
Start with MORE. Then, start customizing it:
Text color = #000000.
Link color = #990000.
Background color = (see attachment). Repeat this.
Secondary background color = #F9F5F0.
CSS: See attached file.
Footnote: Add your own.
Of course, customizing a theme is always "Work in Progress". These are just my own ideas, influenced by the old Formal White theme. Mary and others have helped. When I see a good CSS suggestion, I just include it. You can add your own background, and make colors match it.
The beauty of this approach is that even when you upgrade your moodle, these settings will remain in place. Plus, there is no code tweaking with this approach.
Hi Rick,
I'd like to make my font page like yours. Border categories, courses...I downloaded your attached file but I don't know where to put the code. In the additional html or in my current theme folder or else? Can you help me step by step? For example, which code is used? And where?
Thank you in advance,
Go to Site Administration, Appearance, Themes, then MORE. This is where you make the changes. For example, MORE let's you add a background image, which I provided. You will also see a custom CSS textbox. This is where you copy my code and paste it into the custom CSS area. While you are at it, take an hour or two and just play around with some of the settings. However, before you begin, write down the default settings just in case you want to go back.
I tried to document my CSS code. You can try removing some of it to see what it does. Experiment.
Thank you for your reply, Rick
Your guidance's too general for a new moodler like me! I can't see "Go to Site Administration, Appearance, Themes, then MORE". You mean Additional HTML?
No problem. You are almost there.
In your graphic, right under Appearance, there is the word "Themes". This is a drop-down. Just click on the little arrow to the left of the word Themes and it will show you a few more items, including "MORE". Then, click on MORE.
Hello. When the 'More' theme came out, I made a video about it which might help you, Phuong:
Thank you Mary,
I'm using v 2.4.7 and Liven theme, therefore, I don't MORE section. It depends on version and theme. I'm considering upgrading to a newer - v2.8 if so, I have to stop my Vbulletin (because php and sql of moodle 2.8 aren't suitable for my Vbullentin anymore).
Thanks all,
I think this is more that people who use and administer moodle are doing it for functional reasons
There is no reason why moodle cant look pretty
https://learn.unitedforwildlife.org/
I think the "reason" is that it takes work to make a good-looking website. Priorities always seem to be features and fixes above the design. Development resources are always limited and mostly subject to the availability of volunteers who want to contribute. After all, it's free software.
There are many themes available as plugins. But when you use a plugin, you always risk that the maintainer will lose interest and you'll have to find an alternative or stop upgrading for a while. Those are not good choices.
So I can pick a theme and redefine the CSS to make it look good. But in the next upgrade, how much work will I have to do to fix my CSS to work again?
What it comes down to, like another other CMS, is that if you want a site to look and feel custom to you, exactly to your liking, then you have to be willing to either put in the time to make it that way, or hire someone who can do it for you. A step down from that is to use one of the standard themes and custom CSS to adjust it's styling and hope the theme isn't dropped in the next version of Moodle.
When I was preparing to move from 2.8 to 2.9, I actually took my CSS code, section by section, and tried it to make sure it was needed in 2.9, and that it still worked. But I am using MORE, and it think that the moodle developers are more careful about core themes.
Albert is right, there is no reason for Moodle not to look good, and it is improving, but taking its time about it. Rick is doing it his way. You can create your own modifications to any theme you like, save it under a new theme folder name, adding in to the Moodle theme directory tree, and when you update, it should remain the theme, unchanged. If you upgrade, then you have to make sure that the theme still works, which it should if you have used a core theme that is still supported. Just bear in mind that over time, things change, sometimes incrementally, sometimes in huge leaps, and they may change to something completely different. If you can find the time to keep abreast of those changes, you should have a long-lived theme, with the variations you introduced.
The other thing is something I have always told designers, at every opportunity, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Be careful about what you think looks good, guaranteed someone else is going to think it rubbish, but don't take it personally, not everyone has your good taste.. . One of my favourite sites is Vince Flanders' "Web Pages that suck" a good placed to understand what not to do. Good luck...
Good advice, Colin.
I never thought of making theme changes "my way," however. I have always thought of this as being the Moodle way... go into the theme and use the interface to make some changes. Someday I will have to try adding a theme to the moodle theme directory theme.
Relative to upgrading, I think what you are saying is that if you use the GIT method to update you moodle, this GIT methods doesn't touch any added directories. Is this true?
I don't use GIT, but I hope to learn this method. I upgrade manually, so I am always reinstalling a new moodle and completely removing my old. So this is why I don't like to dabble with code.
But this is all the part of the beauty of moodle. It provides a variety of ways to get the job done.
"...GIT methods doesn't touch any added directories. Is this true?"
Yes, I believe so Rick, the alternative is just to run an update over the existing Moodle and it only updates those files where the header date or version numbers or some such are different. For me it is going from v2.7.1 to v2.7.2. Never been too sure how that works, and I was amazed that that is what it did. Howard or someone may be able to shed more light on this than I would. An upgrade means you delete the entire codebase of the Moodle and replace it with an entirely new code base, like going from v2.7 to v2.9, which is all I have done for the last two years on my one remaining Moodle. Of course, you keep your config.php file and other changes you make to the code, like changing defaults or adding in max timeouts larger than native and that sort of thing. (They should, btw, be recorded in a text file, locations and line numbers and so on, that is handy to the Moodle so all you do is copy and paste changes, unless you have to hunt for code that has changed pages, but that doesn't happen often.)
And the best bit of "Web Pages that Suck" is this page on Biggest Mistakes in Web Design 1995-2015. There are 16 tips there about things we may or may not even consider, and the language used is not pretty sometimes, just straightforward and raw, no beating around the bush. In short, the message is: "Think about this and you won't be a candidate for Web Pages that Suck!"
Interesting thread.
With the side issue of using Git to manage things, this: https://docs.moodle.org/29/en/Git_for_Administrators#Installing_a_contributed_extension_from_its_Git_repository - is good, but I do use sub modules. They are not that advanced especially if you use a GUI like TortoiseGit. This makes (for me at least) developing plugins in separate GitHub repositories whilst keeping Moodle up to date easy.
With the look of Moodle, then certainly 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. I now maintain several themes: Shoelace, Shoehorn, Campus and Essential (Mutant Banjo is sleeping). I designed Shoelace and Shoehorn around my own style. Campus is an adaptation of Shoelace for a client and I've inherited Essential. I could have changed Essential to match my own perspective on looks. But that would have been bad, yes there have been minor cosmetic changes, but for the most part the operational back end has been improved.
So, does the appearance of Moodle need to be improved? That's not really a 'yes' or 'no' answer, but rather needs a better question of 'do you like the look of your Moodle?'. If the answer to that is 'no' then go off and change it using all of the freely available building blocks. If 'yes' then be happy with what you have and relax.
To expand on 'no', then Essential has lots of features where you can change the look. Shoehorn has less in terms of colour alteration but has other features like 'Site pages', which I believe is unique to themes but is also available as a separate plugin from another developer. Shoehorn also has 'syntax highlighting' capability for teaching progamming based courses. Shoelace is more of a 'starter' theme that provides the foundation to add your own functionality. Campus adds other features like its header which can be different on the front page and top level categories. Essential and Shoehorn have altered login pages. The list of differences goes on and on, and these are only my themes. What about others like Elegance, Squared, BCU....? So much to choose from and all different. Not the Moodle equivalent of 'Yet another Wordpress theme'.
When I was in the process of thinking about Shoehorn I looked at other websites in general. I noticed that the main pages of a few had a one line 'footer menu' that was small and neat. So I implemented it in Shoehorn. Therefore, if you see something you like that's not in a Moodle theme but would like it, then do ask the developer of the theme you are using if they would add it (and consider paying them to do so).
Perhaps, this thread is better off on the theme's forum and do add screen shots of ideas.
Gareth, I appreciate your comments. Yes, we seem to have two things going on here, which I guess I started.
1) Moodle is ugly. My position was that it isn't, and it doesn't take much to modify a theme to get it looking the way you want. Your point about many many other themes being available is a good one. My thought was since Moodle 2.?? removed many of the built in choices, why not first try the included themes? This is why I settled upon MORE. But I really do appreciate all of the work the folks do to contribute themes. (I thought you wanted a break several years ago, Gareth.) And so if anything, Moodle offers many more choices than any of the other LMSs. Yes, it takes some time and some digging to settle upon a theme.
2) Updating. I don't do GIT because it seems too automatic. I like to upgrade my moodle slowly, step by step. So I am still uncomfortable with GIT. But I can be persuaded. In the manual approach to updating moodle, I always thought that it was not advised to copy the updated moodle on top of the old, as I think Colin is suggesting. I have always thought it was better to start with the updated original moodle files, add your add-ins, move config.php, and then do the upgrade. Maybe I have a misconception, or things have changed. This is one reason I do not like to tweak code (like I once did with Collapsed Topics, for example, before you gave it everything than anyone would ever need, thank you.) Trying to keep track of tweaked code can drive one crazy. But if someone is a code-tweaker, and if GIT can keep track of all of this (I would have to see it to believe it), then great, update using GIT.
Well, getting back to tying these together. There are many ways to make Moodle look the way you want it to (i.e., better). Make sure that you understand how to upgrade your moodle, keeping any appearance modifications intact. Practice once or twice with upgrading.
Rick, this is one of the few times I do not reall;y agree with you.
"Moodle is ugly. My position was that it isn't, and it doesn't take much to modify a theme to get it looking the way you want"
Have you seen the wildlife course? https://learn.unitedforwildlife.org/ ?
The real question is not what we as tutors believe. It is what our students believe.
To shape a course to look good on mobile, with image content, nice spacing, well designed colours etc does take quite a lot. The built in themes do not come close to being as good for instance as all the mods in Moodle.org. Just to take one example.
-Derek
Apart from getting in trouble for making an observation elsewhere, (a regular thing for me as I never bothered with checking on people's egos before telling them they are wrong.. ) it is very much my assertion that Moodle is a lot better looking than it was before, but that does not mean it is yet pretty. The wildlife course Derek refers to is a lot better looking than standard Moodle courses. I suggest we really need to accept that the User wants something that looks somewhat more easy on the eye, and therefore perceived as more user friendly, not regimented, lowest common factor driven. I am not flippant here, I know it is going to take a long time, and I am sure there are some outstanding examples of where admins are actually quite adaptable. What I am on about is the people, like myself, who have limited time, (limited coding experience for most of them) and cannot just whip up a theme or deconstruct and rebuild themes to suit themselves.
There needs to be some out of the box themes that take the idea of good design seriously. I do not mean to denigrate the great work done by theme developers but a lot of the themes I have seen, and some I have used, seem to be straitjacketed or constrained by the PHP rendered pages. Please, I just do not know enough about how a theme is built or how pages are rendered in PHP, I am only going on what I have seen, and sometimes, that has just not been good at all. It really can be better, that is all I am suggesting.
I did take a look at the wildlife course, but I wanted to login in as guest and couldn't.
All of this is interesting, of course. What makes a web site looking great? What is simple?
I have used the other LMSs, and as far as appearance, I am unimpressed. But I might not be impressed with Moodle either, were it not for the ability to add themes, modify themes, and modify code via CSS. Yes, Moodle is not complete, but on a relative basis, I believe it is ahead of the pack.
(Side note: I have been involved in a project to evaluate Canvas at a major university. When I showed the project manager my moodle, she said "I have never seen Moodle look so good." I really don't think my moodle is all that cool, but I do believe it is very functional. I am pretty much an individual island at two schools that use different LMSs products, yet my students are always complimenting moodle.)
Hi Derek,
The course you linked is truly wonderful and engaging for the learner, but a quick glance at the client list of the creators gives an idea of the cost. I seriously dread to think how much work was involved.
I completely agree with you that it's the students who count. If it doesn't work for them, then it doesn't work. I blogged on this topic recently here. The issue of visually engaging the learner is a big one and if you look at lots of coursebooks you can see different ways are being tried out to guide the learner through the materials. This is not so easy to manipulate in Moodle.
Getting the look right on all the different platforms is certainly an issue (though it rings familiar to those who coped with wildly differing browser implementations around the turn of the century). The core of Moodle is the learning management, and it certainly should remain so, but I wonder if it's time for the theme gurus to step up to the plate and really offer some variety in the way Moodle is presented. I'm thinking here of what has happened with WordPress and to a lesser extent Joomla over the past few years. On both of those platforms a sole trader can get an extremely professional-looking website that can compete with much larger companies with relatively little effort. With Moodle, you can look good, but it still looks like Moodle, and doing something flashy is not for the faint-hearted. Maybe it's time for the designers to take a few more risks?
When I look at something like the Grid Course Format from Gareth, and another format which looked rather like an interactive poster (I can't remember its name offhand) I see something which looks like the basis for a format which, if taken further, could provide an experience where the learning environment is more apparent than the host system.
Note to Moodle theme developers: I'm in no way criticising the marvellous work you people do! I'm thinking out loud here about the way forward.
I for one would be intrigued to see if a developer could come up with a theme in the form of a stripped down version of the website you posted.
All the best
Andy
Thank you for your comments Andy.
The Wordpress backend and widgets are something for Moodle to aspire to. There has been talk in the past of a 'control page' like a Blofeld command centre without the white cat. But nothing yet.
With "Maybe it's time for the designers to take a few more risks?" - we are already taking risks! The Moodle CSS is complex and has a lot to style at a highly granular level. This is another subject called the 'element library' to refactor the code down to something more manageable.
Ok, risks wise here is a list of things that I know of that have already happened:
.....
And not counting what the available course format's add.
You can see that the list of functionality goes on and on and on. Therefore it's not about 'risk' but getting feedback on what is actually wanted. Simple annotated pencil sketches for new ideas would be great. So get your thinking caps on and come up with something new. And... I believe Derek that you promised me this a long time in the past, but still nothing .
Cheers,
Gareth
I have spent enough of my life working around theme induced issues to prefer designers to be cautious in their risk taking.
Aside:
Andy said: n"Note to Moodle theme developers: I'm in no way criticising the marvellous work you people do! I'm thinking out loud here about the way forward."
+1 from me.
This is my sentiment exactly, I apologise if my post was a little blunt.
@everybody. Good conversation. More later probably.
-Derek
Yep Derek, good conversation.
I went back to the site https://learn.unitedforwildlife.org and found something interesting. In my full size browser, I thought that I was seeing everything. Then, I realized that there was more down below, I just had to scroll down to it. And by scrolling, I discovered about three pages of information that could only be viewed a page at a time (or maybe a pane at at time). Well, this might be the "new" Internet design, but for me, whenever possible, I would like everything on one entry webpage to appear on one page, all visible at one time. But this is just me.
Awhile ago, one of my schools experimented with me for Moodle. They set up a front page, nothing all that special, with a login area. But this frontage was not Moodle, it was just a webpage that someone at the school put together quickly, it looked like an official university webpage. After the student entered the login credentials, this webpage passed this information into Moodle. I have never been able to do this myself, don't really have the need, but it makes me think how folks can create a very attractive front page to Moodle, doing anything they pleased, and then pass login information to a very functional Moodle. This is just one idea, and I don't know how difficult it is to do. Also, I recognize that this approach does not take care of anything once inside moodle.
Agreed, Rick, Front Page scrolling is the death of a good web site... and designers who don't recognize that may have other bad habits too... , so it is not just you. I have seen pages as you describe as well, and I am always disappointed when I go into the course and find same-o, same-o, the expectation rises and is harshly let down. And the SSO option is not difficult for good SysAdmins, it seems.
As Derek has said, I think we all appreciate the good work that the developers of themes do, realizing that it is not easy, it is far easier to think that comments like mine are just rubbishing them, but I am not really. I am hoping and urging that STYLE is more considered in newer themes, but we must understand that few share our own sense of STYLE, or good taste. This is why I am constantly referring to "Web Pages that Suck" and well intentioned sites like Ms. Robin Williams Web Design Features page (good and bad but she is very Spartan in her own tastes by the looks of it), and Jakob Nielsen's Top 10 Mistakes page. I know these concentrate on the negative, more than the positive, but sometimes finding out what you should not do is not as limiting as finding out what you should do, if that makes sense.
I think Bernard mentioned a Blofeld control centre, a wonderful idea spoken of previously, but hellishly difficult to code I imagine. Perhaps that is a bit of a Grail for Moodle, but the WordPress approach seems to be as workable as it is popular. Dunno myself....
OT
"Front Page scrolling is the death of a good web site"
I've been interested in the new Adapt framework:
Here is one comment from Front Page scrolling is the death of a good web site.
Innovations in design
Adapt isn’t just a fresh take on an e-learning framework, it also offers an innovative approach to design and course navigation and incorporates, what we think, are several exciting developments:
I have been looking at this site:
https://members.scouts.org.uk/ongoinglearning/safety/#m05
and
http://adapt.academy0213.co.uk/appraisals/#/id/co-02
I'm largely off typing, but I wrote a long post over the weekend which is being typed by a friend. I'll be back.
-Derek
CORRECTION.
Didn't proof my cut and paste.
The extract is from https://community.adaptlearning.org/mod/page/view.php?id=20
-Derek
"Front Page scrolling..."
A front page should always load fast, which means it is stripped of all but the most necessary information and navigation. It should be clear and easily understood. It should convey to the reader quickly what the site is all about. This is the perfume, what is inside is the honey. The perfume attracts, the honey keeps people coming back. IF the front page attracts people, then thereafter, pages can be as long as needed.
The only trouble with this idea is that people don't come into every site via the front page. In Moodle though, of necessity, they have to come in through the font page. I would add that from there, navigation to the required courses is critical. I have to agree that navigation should be based upon the requirements of the page, not the designer's perceptions of screen real estate.
Hi Colin
I was quite surprised to learn that some designers feel that a non-scrolling front page isn't necessarily a good thing. I've spoken to a few recently and there is a theory that a page and a half is often better than just one page (particularly with news content). The idea is that a viewer sees a headline and part of the introduction at the bottom of the page and actively interacts with the page. Apparently this reduces bounce rates and improves engagement. I can't say whether I agree with that or not, but it's an interesting thought. Maybe it helps in certain cases?
I agree with what you say about navigation, but would add that course creators sometimes forget that the learners need to do the navigating according to their needs and not those of the course creator who is often using a different logic!
All the best
Andy
Hi Andy, attitudes may be changing but I started using HTML in the Dark Ages. (Started playing with SGML on a Sun system, but it wasn't until a really flexible HTML that I could use at home on my Amstrad 1512 DD, MSDOS3.2 box with a 2.6kb/s dialup modem, was introduced that I got interested in the web.) 14 inch monitors were huge, and double digit bit rates were "fast", and having an image larger than 25kb on a page was risky, (no images at all on SGML pages, ..wow.. just loved that HTML) so most of my attitudes are still influenced by things like "load times", "screen real estate", and a ideal of balancing "function and form". The adage was "if a page won't load in 30 seconds, people will leave it and go to the next site." Then it became 20 seconds, I recently saw a reference of 4 seconds. Even with the higher speeds we use now, I still cannot see an advantage of a front page that scrolls. It does, in the end, depend on what it is you want your front page to do, but with many, many sites, (probably the vastly greater majority) you do not need to go in via the front page. Moodles, you do, so you want people to spend as little time on the Front Page as possible. Moodles should load in a couple of seconds, but even once inside, until you get to course levels, there really should be minimal scrolling.
Yes, Rick I too was originally advised not to overwrite, way back... upgrading from a v1.8 I had downloaded and used to a v1.9, (my first Moodle I had downloaded and installed before I bothered to ask for help.. ) Later, after v2.1, I was told that using the update process was workable and easier, after I had advised someone not to do it. Can't think of whom, though, one of the devs or who has been active for longer than me.
I'm with Rick on updating. Still do it "manually". I wrote my own script when we were on Moodle 1.9 and have just keep it current through the upgrades. It removes the entire site's codebase and replaces it. That means I keep a copy of any plugins I use and the script re-adds them after replacing the codebase. I have one code mod which I manually reapply after the upgrade is complete.
I've looked at Git a couple of times, but just haven't gotten a good understanding of how it would work with multiple sites on the same server. And since I already have something fairly automatic that works, it just didn't seem worth the effort to switch.
Yep, this is the same way I do it. I start with a fresh copy of moodle in a temporary folder, I add my add-ins, move my config.php file into it, and then replace my complete moodle folder with the new files. In less than 3 minutes of "downtime," I upgrade.
Actually, I do this first to one of my experimental copies of moodle, usually one of my MAMP installs, and check things out. Then I do the same process on my production site.
But with this method, I think one can see that I am adverse to code modifications. It can complicate the process.
I thought that I was the only person not fully understanding GIT. Thanks for letting me know that I am not alone, Bret.
Wow! We've strayed from the subject of this thread but I'll 'go with the flow' ...
by all means keep what works, but thought I'd share ... something I actually use so it's been tested. (I don't hack any core code. I've command line scripts and other related files in some directories ... like admin/cli/, however, and git doesn't know about them thus never touches them. When I update or upgrade those therefore remain.)
niup2s script (ni stands for non-interactive - multiple sites on same server)
Updates within a series ... i.e., 2.8.2 -> 2.8.3
Lines could be changed/added to upgrade ... i.e., 2.8.current to 2.9.highest
Script can be run from command line ... could also be run via cron and as a button
in Webmin.
#!/bin/bash
#
for i in `cat /usr/local/bin/moodle2s.txt`
do
echo "Site in que: $i";
cd /var/www/html/$i;
pwd;
echo 'DB dump ....';
mysqldump -u root -p'[PASSWORD]' $i'moodle' > '/home/backup/'$i'moodle-'$(date +%Y%m%d).sql;
ls -l /home/backup/$i'moodle'-*.sql;
echo 'Tar balling code dir ...';
tar -cvf /home/backup/$i-$(date +%Y%m%d)-moodlecode.tar ../$i
ls -l /home/backup/$i*.tar;
echo 'Tar balling data dir ...';
tar -cvf /home/backup/$i-$(date +%Y%m%d)-moodledata.tar /var/www/$i'moodledata'
ls -l /home/backup/$i*.tar;
php admin/cli/cron.php;
php admin/cli/maintenance.php --enable;
git pull;
chown apache:apache * -R;
php admin/cli/upgrade.php --non-interactive;
php admin/cli/maintenance.php --disable;
echo '***** NEXT site. *****';
done
echo 'Done!';
moodle2s.txt file contains
east2
elaapnsr2
liberty2
pd2
vcal2
west2
Does require one to use some standard naming conventions:
Moodle Code Directories (below indicated by [site]): [campus]2 (ready for version 3 when released)
DBs: [site]moodle
DataDirs: [site]moodledata
Doesn't upgrade any add-ons ... which one could do via Moodle UI - Notifications.
Script run time depends upon how busy sites have been - data directories take the longest time, natch. This particular sites niup2s run time is about 1 hour.
'spirit of sharing', Ken
mmm Perhaps that is the idea, Visvanath, try to get away from a traditional, somewhat stodgy, highly structured classroom look. I must admit it looks great and I haven't joined up to do any learning, but I too wonder where the learning happens.
What's Wordpress got to do with it and what gives an "impression" of a learning environment?
Question for all involved in this discussion ... really for reflection/investigation of their own sites ... not necessarily sharing back here.
How many of your clients (i.e., students) use a smartphone or tablet to access
your Moodle site? How many clients (students) would like to be able to use their
smartphone/tablet as their primary tool for accessing your Moodle?
Is it a fact that last year, tablets/handhelds outsold destkop/laptop PC sales?!!
Ever check out the 'pretty sites' with tool emulators?
FireFox
Tools
Web Developer
Responsive Design Tool
Chrome
"Website testing has become increasingly complex. The days of verifying functionality in a couple of browsers are long gone. Your latest masterpiece must be rigorously evaluated on a range of mobile, tablet and desktop devices with differing OSs, screen resolutions and capabilities. In extreme cases, it could take as long as the original development."
http://www.sitepoint.com/use-mobile-emulation-mode-chrome/
There's nothing, however, that will replace actually using a smartphone/tablet to view/test.
Old 'smartphone' ... 3g network ... with '1 bar' (sometimes) ... sucks on most sites, and on certain sites almost impossible (reverts back to 'world wide wait' of dialup days).
IMHO ... one should begin with the end in mind (content -> students) while considering (as well) 'end point' (tech that students have/use).
'Web Sites that Suck' site recognizes that as well.
'spirit of sharing', Ken
My view is that it is not an option (any more) for Moodle to work properly on a mobile device. It is expected.
So - yes - it needs to be tested on a range of popular mobile devices and the emulators now found in browsers are a big help.
I've had a few surprises... mobile device doesn't just mean a smaller screen. They have some other oddities as well (e.g. how does 'hover' work on an iPad?).
Interesting discussion going on here..
I'll chip in with some thoughts:
Some - perhaps interesting for the discussion - device stats for you on an online college Moodle I work with (12k adult learners):
And some initial mobile stats for the United for Wildlife project for you guys:
Indeed interesting stats. Would think mobile/tablet being used for 'educational' purposes would vary (age/experience/geographic location [market] - other factors).
So what would the thresh hold be before mobile/tablet becomes a major consideration? Near 1/4 so far for both and would imagine that's up from 5 years ago (if one had those stats).
As far as usage ... hmmmm ... Wildlife ... outdoor ... no laptop ... but smartphone/tablet with camera (assumes connectivity at location).
Granted, that has nothing to do with appearance to those devices or does it? ... just thinking out loud.
'spirit of sharing', Ken
It would be interesting to see data from 5 years ago.. Also would be interesting to compare against sites with no responsive themes..
IMHO the user context definitely has something to do with how you present information to them and I think when designing the site, you'd want to work out what that is for the 80% of your users.
"Simplifying the interface is key - There's nearly always too many options presented to learners which in 90% of cases is going to confuse and put off learners"
I'd like to second that. Remember when Google was young clean and elegant. A Text Box and a button. This was when Yahoo looked like an explosion in an alphabet factory. (ahh I just took a look, it still does)
I know that what Moodle does is complex, but there is scope for simplification of the interface/hiding options that are not essential at a particular moment.
Have to agree, Marcus, simplifying the interface is the key, How that can be made adaptive though... wow....big ask. As Thomas suggests above, focusing on "key actions" should dictate the appearance on the current page.
What I have noticed over the years is that programmers, are at risk of falling in love with their projects. What they do is over develop things, add in overly complicated code to solve complicated problems, which does little more than display their skills as programmers, the "Aren't I clever!" syndrome. (Big problem on one project until I moved the guy responsible to another project - where he became a problem for someone else, until I got him back and then gave him a book on how to write good code, which I should have done first.. ) I suspect a similar attitude in devs as well...
For example... Git. I don't have the time, (nor the willingness I am afraid) to learn to use Git properly, and it is a mystery. To me though, it seems an overly complex way of delivering what could be a simple zip file. To navigate to the right point, to locate the right files, to download the required files, is just not that simple. Bret and Rick, never think you are alone - there are lots of us...
Git in this example is not a good one. Git is a vital tool for developers. It is a 'configuration management' tool. Configuration management is a fundamental key quality aspect of software development. It is there to help create the 'simple zip file' in the first place. It locates the right files and enables you to package them into a zip file.
Ok, at the moment when Moodle updates you have to download a new Zip file, extract all of the files, make a backup of your existing installation, delete your existing installation bar the config.php file, put in the new extracted files (because a copy over would not remove files that had been deleted) and the put back any contributed plugins from the backup. How long does this take? 15, 30, 45 minutes? What if the computer could do all of this for you in one go? What if the command was 'git pull'? Would that be worth learning something new for?
Yes I agree that some developers have an ego. But it is a popular misconception that things are overly complex 'just because they can be'. Things can be complex because they 'need to be' to do the job. For example, the Essential theme. I've just spent a few hours implementing class auto-loading and created a 'toolbox' for it. Yes, something new for me and another technology. But.... it has enabled the reduction in duplicated methods in a few places which means the theme is more maintainable and less chance of a bug because each bit of functionality is implemented once. Also, having implemented a different CSS serving mechanism, yes it is complex and I did enjoy doing it and showing off my skills. But... it was the best way to make it work within the constraints of the system. It exists to reduce the amount of CSS served to both LTR and RTL users and thus speed up page load and reduce bandwidth on mobile devices. If there was not a perceived tangible benefit to the user I would not have done it.
Having attended a tutorial by the great Martin Fowler on Refactoring in the late 90's I've been reflecting ever since on how I can make my code clean and maintainable. And when ever I can refactor the code I inherit so that it is maintainable and can then be improved.
Another example is Collapsed Topics. I believe for the most part that it has as much functionality as it will ever need. It does not need to be any more complex than it already is. I have resisted some changes as a result. The same goes for the Grid format. And dare I say it, Essential. For which through many hours of hard work has a flexible 'child theme' mechanism where you can add your 'extras'. I've even supplied a 'template' with instructions in the theme.
I still have a copy of Fowler's book on Refactoring from about then somewhere around I think. Haven't needed it for a long time as I am no longer project managing or writing, but, for me, the better read for design and development was Complete Code(?), by the guy from Microsoft. Can't remember his name but it was a revelation on just basic things, stuff I hadn't thought about before as well as outlining some good project practices. I know that got nicked....
I tried to instill the idea of the "black box" into my team, that is, make the superficial easy, simple, but it is relying on the black box to work. Users don't usually care about what's inside the black box, as long as the UI and the key actions are clear. Most programmers took this to heart and simplified things, writing good, clean and well commented code, some didn't and their code worked, but doing anything to it became a nightmare. It is those programmers who build buggy potentials into their work without realizing it.
I understand Git is more for the devs than for us poor unknowing souls, and as long as the latest builds are available as existing standard packages, then I don't suppose it really matters. It is an unfair example, but I have seen here comments like, "you can download it from the Git-hub" which is meaningless for most of us I would think.
This is really getting off topic.... and I come back to my original comments... Moodle is improving but it is not yet very "pretty", and it cannot be made to look pretty easily. What that means as far as accomplishing "look pretty easily" in code is concerned is not hard, extremely difficult is more likely. So what can Moodle devs do to make it easier?
Hi Thomas
The important issue is not necessarily the device stats, rather what those people are doing during mobile access. I checked this in my own log files, and found that the majority of the mobile access was restricted to forum-checking and messaging. The content consumption was still overwhelmingly done on computers.
I'm sure that would vary depending on the content or purpose of the course, but a quick straw poll of some blended-learning students returned a vanishingly small proportion of people doing quizzes and assignments on mobile devices. I'm not for a moment suggesting we should ignore them, but we should maybe look a bit beyond the headline figures.
All the best
Andy
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but at least Moodle does move forward and things improve. Saying that we should have had those stats in Moodle 1 is like saying we should have had the Internet in the 1920's, great but just did not happen. If there are 'thousands' waiting to be heard, where's your evidence to back up your assertion? The forums are open so every one of those thousands can have a voice if they wish.
Ah with 'thousands', not the same thing, you said 'And many thousends are waiting I heard!' but Martin states 'thousands of requests for new features', therefore the users have been heard but not acted upon. Not the same concept!
I think you have to look at some of the more commercial offerings out there - such as Cornerstone and SuccessFactors and realise what you have for nowt.
With it being open source - it is tailorable to how you want it to look. We have made some pretty sexy LMS for some of my commercial clients.
John, got any links to your work?
Have you shared anything back in the plugins database?
You are possibly right about the 'commercial offerings'.
-Derek
I've had some massive fights along the lines of, "we need moving images with pictures of happy students everywhere in Moodle". Asking "why?" results in a kind of "burn the witch" attitude.
There is a time and a place but Moodle is primarily about delivering learning resources. We shouldn't make it ugly but neither should we fill the space with pretty pictures and other pointless fluff. The marketing people have their place but they really want a CMS for that kind of thing.
I think there is some type of global law requiring pointless pictures of happy people. It also applies to advertisements for financial services
I have no idea what you mean...
Funny! I am imagining the character at the board telling them 'just shoot them'! ;)
'spirit of sharing', Ken
I'm not talking about '_prettiness_', I'm discussing 'form and function'. More akin to 'architectural design' for the software world.
Two things that have sprung to mind:
Visvanath raises an interesting idea and others, Howard, Marcus and Gareth expand on it, in your own ways.. For me, there is a point where form conflicts with function, and it is at that point where "prettiness" takes over. Form however, should not be so subservient to function that it looks like an apartment block in Moscow, which is what Moodles often look like now. But these are side issues really.
What I am coming to to is generically, we cannot ascribe "pretty", we cannot tell what other people think looks good. Why is van Gogh an artist but Fraser only a scribbler? We know what we think looks good, but I suggest possibly 20% of others will agree, more likely 20% will loudly disagree, and the rest are too polite to tell you it sucks. The whole theme thing is just too proscribed for me, but I can offer nothing to replace that, only an idea that allows people to easily manipulate the look of their site. Let the people who own the site take possession of the look of their Moodle. So what if Luna from Loonyville loves lots of pretty flowers in her Moodle, or Tom Riddle loves a lot of skulls in his, who cares? The KGB would not have a Moodle that looks like Granny's Childminding Moodle. That is the Owner's problem. Ultimately, it is the user who is either accepting or nauseated by it, and if it sickens enough people, it will get changed. The Moodle should reflect the identity of the owners, not the person who writes a theme. (OK, don't get too excited by that, There are some lovely themes out there, and good work is done by lots of people, but they don't necessarily reflect the values, the ideas of the owners of the Moodle.) That, I suspect, is the only way that people will be happy about the look of their Moodles, if they can do it themselves, easily, and quickly.
I'll give it a try.
Andrew started this topic (and later joined by Phuong) by saying he wanted to make his Moodle look better. I suggested simply modifying the theme (MORE) through the normal Moodle "appearance" features, and I provided my own settings and my own CSS modifications as an example. I think that they are satisfied, for now. (I failed to mention that I also use, and love Gareth's collapsed topics add-in, however.)
I've just posted what is for me a significant post here: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=316278
I'm not sure if people will really get it, I may set up a public version of the site if there is interest.
I want Looks nice AND good navigation.
Visvaneth, I sometimes wonder if you have too much time on your hands or else you can think and type too fast for your own good. At the risk of being provocative, I think some people clarify their own thoughts by talking and typing. Dio we always need an "outcome"?
-Derek
As the original poster, I would like to thank everybody for a great discussion. It never occurred to me that so many people would join in and so many points would be covered. Thank you all!
My question was motivated both by issues of attractiveness and "clunkiness" (i.e. navigation type issues) and many of the points have been nicely dealt with.
I am also looking for stability in (perhaps) a commercial or enterprise environment where one cannot constantly be updating or tinkering with code (and where moodle updates do not break the themes) - and where money is not limitless.
Best wishes to everyone.
Andrew
Now you are raising issues beyond looks. The only one that plays around with code is you, or your admin. I made a policy to only update once a year. That is enough for the users, and my successors have continued with this.
I'm curious Andrew.
When you first arrived I thought you probably had had no exposure to some of the cool new themes.
Have you tried any out?
eg, Crisp, Elegance, Shoestring, BCU, Decaf, Essential, Evolve-D, square, Morecandy etc?
These all have a large measure of stability that you want. (But you may think they are still cluinkie!!)
-Derek
Shoestring?? Good name but no theme of that name I believe. Shoehorn and Shoelace .
Hi Andrew,
RE: "where money is not limitless".
Money is not limitless at all! Please read: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=314916.
I develop my themes / course formats for free because I love coding, to learn new things, to show off my skills and attract contract work. But none of them are funded enough and operate at a loss. I do spend a bit of time updating themes because of API changes, but that's at the cutting edge. It is the general policy that no regressions should take place in a stable released version. That was broken a few releases back, but was recognised as something to avoid. I believe that there is a good post from Dan P about that somewhere.
With theme breakages, with the example of Essential, I have tried to keep enhancements down to a minimum and concentrate on refactoring and cleaning such a complex theme that started life on a laptop during an overnight flight. It is a very complex theme and there is only me working on it at the moment. Yes, I do get pull requests and fixes, but some pull requests have lead to more breakages. I'm only human and it would be better if a few other developers where checking my code in an 'extreme programming' concept to prevent 'oddities' creeping in. This was the case when David Bezmer was working on the theme too, just that people did not see what was corrected.
I believe that there is a popular misconception that just because Open Source is 'free' then updates / improvements / support should also be 'free' and things just 'happen'. Not so, look at why possibly the Moodle Association has come into existence.
The best thing with Moodle is to have a test server set-up in identical fashion to your production server so that you can test updates before they are live. Then help the developers fix the 'unexpected' in the complexity before it becomes an issue. Moodle is more of a 'community' than a 'company / client' relationship. That keeps the costs down but on the flip side means the need for more 'help us / help you'. Nothing in life is ever truly 'free'.
G
`You are old, Father William,' the young man said,
`And your hair has become very white;
And yet you incessantly stand on your head--
Do you think, at your age, it is right?'
`In my youth,' Father William replied to his son,
`I feared it might injure the brain;
But, now that I'm perfectly sure I have none,
Why, I do it again and again.'
