KS,
That depends on a lot of things that you have left out of your post. For example, the fact that you got something when you browsed to localhost indicates that you did at least have a webserver running at the time on your XP system. It may or may not be the webserver you wanted to be running. I'm guessing that you are trying to use the Windows Complete Package for Moodle, which comes with Apache and MySQL and is based on XAMPPlite. But it is possible that you downloaded a separate copy of XAMPP, or separate copies of Apache and MySQL. It might even be that you are trying to run Moodle with IIS and/or MS SQL Server. Also, you didn't say what help page you got. Was it a Moodle help page, a Windows help page, an Internet Explorer (or Firefox) help page, an Apache (or IIS) help page, etc.? For starters, see Installation FAQ#System_information_needed_for_Installation_problems_forum.
If you downloaded the Windows Complete Package, are you sure you followed the instructions (Complete install packages for Windows)? If you don't know which help page you got, could you attach a screenshot of it (or at least the top of it) to your next post? Other details would be handy, like a copy of your config.php file (main Moodle folder; leave out the database p/w!), the location (pathname) where you extracted to, and the DocumentRoot line from server/apache/conf/httpd.conf. This assumes you downloaded the Windows Complete Package for the latest stable version of Moodle (last time I checked, it was 1.9.4).
RLE
That depends on a lot of things that you have left out of your post. For example, the fact that you got something when you browsed to localhost indicates that you did at least have a webserver running at the time on your XP system. It may or may not be the webserver you wanted to be running. I'm guessing that you are trying to use the Windows Complete Package for Moodle, which comes with Apache and MySQL and is based on XAMPPlite. But it is possible that you downloaded a separate copy of XAMPP, or separate copies of Apache and MySQL. It might even be that you are trying to run Moodle with IIS and/or MS SQL Server. Also, you didn't say what help page you got. Was it a Moodle help page, a Windows help page, an Internet Explorer (or Firefox) help page, an Apache (or IIS) help page, etc.? For starters, see Installation FAQ#System_information_needed_for_Installation_problems_forum.
If you downloaded the Windows Complete Package, are you sure you followed the instructions (Complete install packages for Windows)? If you don't know which help page you got, could you attach a screenshot of it (or at least the top of it) to your next post? Other details would be handy, like a copy of your config.php file (main Moodle folder; leave out the database p/w!), the location (pathname) where you extracted to, and the DocumentRoot line from server/apache/conf/httpd.conf. This assumes you downloaded the Windows Complete Package for the latest stable version of Moodle (last time I checked, it was 1.9.4).
RLE
I am using Windows XP and IIS (MS SQL Server is installed but not running) and I downloaded the Windows Complete Package for Moodle. So... yes I am trying to use Moodle with IIS and the help page I am getting is the IIS help page (browser is IE.)
After 4 frustrating hours I gave up and deleted everything. If this is the kind time effort I need to spent on installing Moodle I am worried about how much time it will take me to learn how to use it and that it will do what it says it can do.
After 4 frustrating hours I gave up and deleted everything. If this is the kind time effort I need to spent on installing Moodle I am worried about how much time it will take me to learn how to use it and that it will do what it says it can do.
KS,
No, it doesn't usually take four hours to get the Complete Windows Package installed. I have it for several versions of Moodle on my PC (I also have XP) and it's rather easy. It really does install itself. Your problem is you were trying to use it to get Moodle running with IIS. That's not what it's designed for. It comes with Apache and when you tried to start it up, Apache tried to start and it found IIS was already running on the port it uses (80), so it shut itself down. All the fine-tuned webserver configuration that works so effortlessly with the package is for Apache, not IIS. It was wasted on your system because IIS would not allow it to work.
If you really want to use Moodle with IIS, there are other instructions for that (see links below). And don't use the Complete Windows Package. If you really want to use the latter, deactivate IIS or change the port it listens on.
Links for Moodle/win/IIS/MySQL:
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=76180#p346458
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=77868 (contains details on IIS user accounts and permissions)
http://www.peterguy.com/php/install_IIS6.html
http://excellence.qia.org.uk/page.aspx?o=ferl.aclearn.resource.id8811
http://www.jonwitts.co.uk/pdfs/IIS_MySQL_PHP.pdf
RLE
No, it doesn't usually take four hours to get the Complete Windows Package installed. I have it for several versions of Moodle on my PC (I also have XP) and it's rather easy. It really does install itself. Your problem is you were trying to use it to get Moodle running with IIS. That's not what it's designed for. It comes with Apache and when you tried to start it up, Apache tried to start and it found IIS was already running on the port it uses (80), so it shut itself down. All the fine-tuned webserver configuration that works so effortlessly with the package is for Apache, not IIS. It was wasted on your system because IIS would not allow it to work.
If you really want to use Moodle with IIS, there are other instructions for that (see links below). And don't use the Complete Windows Package. If you really want to use the latter, deactivate IIS or change the port it listens on.
Links for Moodle/win/IIS/MySQL:
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=76180#p346458
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=77868 (contains details on IIS user accounts and permissions)
http://www.peterguy.com/php/install_IIS6.html
http://excellence.qia.org.uk/page.aspx?o=ferl.aclearn.resource.id8811
http://www.jonwitts.co.uk/pdfs/IIS_MySQL_PHP.pdf
RLE
I have windows xp pro. I have downloaded and deleted moodle 1.9 twice now because I can't get it to install. I have tried the package by itself and then installed the easyphp program first to see if that would work because the quick little blip of a page came up and I was able to see something about "can't find php" or something efore the page diappeared. I cna't seem to figure out how to find port 80 but I id run a few different tests and 1 said it was free and the other said it was blocked. How do I work that out? I am not a computer wiz but I have built a few pages in my life with some other programs. I want to install directly to "My" computer and use it here. I have several sites at GoDaddy but wanted to try it on my own system instead. I want to build a school for teaching in my area of expertise. Where are the pages that take you step-by-step when you have a problem? My system has 3 gigs ram and 250 gigs hard drive memory. I thought it would be enough. Could I be wrong? Please Help!!
Paula
PR,
No, you are not wrong. You have plenty of memory and hard disk space, way more than you need for a local Moodle installation.
You say you have run tests to see if port 80 is available and gotten conflicting results. If you want help on that, it would be useful if you could tell us what tests you ran. I believe that if port 80 is in use, it usually means one of three things:
Did you try the Complete Windows Package for Moodle? In my experience, it is very easy; it practically installs itself. But see http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=113674#p499422.
It would be difficult to put together a step-by-step procedure for if things go wrong, because if they do, it is probably because of one or both of two things:
If port 80 is blocked, when Apache starts up (the first thing that happens after you extract the files from the downloaded zip file and click Start Moodle, along with MySQL) it will immediately shut itself down because it cannot run if it cannot use that port. If that happens, that's right, you guessed it, say so! And see if you can figure out if another webserver or Skype is already running.
RLE
No, you are not wrong. You have plenty of memory and hard disk space, way more than you need for a local Moodle installation.
You say you have run tests to see if port 80 is available and gotten conflicting results. If you want help on that, it would be useful if you could tell us what tests you ran. I believe that if port 80 is in use, it usually means one of three things:
- Apache is already running;
- IIS is running; or
- Skype is running.
Did you try the Complete Windows Package for Moodle? In my experience, it is very easy; it practically installs itself. But see http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=113674#p499422.
It would be difficult to put together a step-by-step procedure for if things go wrong, because if they do, it is probably because of one or both of two things:
- Something else on your machine is interfering, or
- the user did something wrong.
If port 80 is blocked, when Apache starts up (the first thing that happens after you extract the files from the downloaded zip file and click Start Moodle, along with MySQL) it will immediately shut itself down because it cannot run if it cannot use that port. If that happens, that's right, you guessed it, say so! And see if you can figure out if another webserver or Skype is already running.
RLE
So, do you suggest I start over? I read in one of the "instruction for install" pages that it is best to download to a clean machine. This is a refurbished machine I bought on ebay just about a month ago for this whole project. Our other machine wasn't big enough. How do I check for skype? I know I never downloaded or installed it. I also don't believe I have IIS. Or maybe I do and it is with my frontpage 2000 program that I installed. How do I look for it? I have only put bare basic programs so I could leave this system clear for Moodle. I did download the "complete package for windows" because it said it would be simple to put into a stand alone computer. The first time after unzipping the files it would not install. The page would come up and quickly disappear so I was unable to read it in full. I saw a prompt about php. That is why I uninstalled everything and started over by downloading the easy php 3.0 (the only program I was able to find because the link on moodle is broken and it takes you to a different site) first and then downloaded moodle complete package again but it still wouldn't install. Does the manual describe how all of this works and how to manually install? Should I go there and read a certain chapter? I do get the 3 files and the subfolder when I unzip. Should I go into the subfolder and look for a way to install from there? Thanks for the help and not being condescending to a newbie to computer systems. I do appreciate the help!
PR
PR,
You're welcome. You have asked many questions. I will try to answer them in something like the order in which asked.
You're welcome. You have asked many questions. I will try to answer them in something like the order in which asked.
- You still have not said what tests you ran for availability of port 80. I think I could be more helpful if I knew.
- You should be able to tell what is running by looking at the task bar. It is usually at the bottom of the screen, though it can be dragged to any of the other three sides. There is usually a button on the task bar, to the right of the Start button, for each application you have running (like MS Word, Internet Explorer or Firefox, Skype, Windows Explorer or My Computer, etc.), but lately it seems my system has not been showing all the buttons it should be showing.
A more reliable method, in my experience, is to hold down one of the Alt keys and press the Tab key. This will display a rectangle in the middle of the screen containing an icon for each application running (if there are multiple copies of an application running, there will be an icon for each one; for example, three different Word documents may be open) as long as you keep the Alt key held down. And every time you press the Tab key while the Alt key is held down, the focus will be seen to move one icon to the right (as indicated by a square around the icon), and the details about that icon will be displayed at the bottom (for example, the name of a document). Pressing Shift-Tab will move the focus one icon to the left. When you release the Alt key, the task whose icon has the focus will become the active task.
Finally, you can use Task Manager to see what's running. While holding down the Ctrl and Alt keys to the left of the Space bar with your left hand, press the Delete key with your right hand. This is known as the three-fingered salute, and it will launch the Task Manager. Or, you can right click on a blank area of the Task Bar and click on Task Manager on the pop-up menu to launch it. The Windows Task Manager window has a menu bar with six menus at the top; under that are five tabs: Applications, Processes, Performance, Networking, and Users. The first tab will normally be selected, so you will see a list of tasks, one row each, with two columns: Task, and Status. So if Skype or Apache is running, it will probably be on the list. I'm not sure about IIS. I don't have it, I've never used it, so I'm not an expert on it.
It is possible that IIS (or even Apache) might not be on the Task list because it is running as a service. To see if it is, click the Start button and move the mouse to Administrative Tools. From the submenu, click on Services. - Should you delete everything and start over? Not necessarily. I would say that was a last resort. But it's your choice.
- You say the Complete Windows Package would not install; the page would come up and disappear. What page? Do you mean the Apache launch window? That could be because something else is already running that is listening on port 80. If you do have Skype running on that port, see Windows installation using XAMPP#Skype. Or just don't run it.
- Does the manual describe how all this works? What manual? Yes, there is a Moodle doc page on doing a manual install (Installing Moodle), but I think you will find it much harder to follow on a Windows system. It's pretty Linux oriented and you're pretty much on your own getting Apache and MySQL downloaded and installed. Or you could try Windows installation using XAMPP, or Installing AMP#Windows_-_XAMPP. But if you've got something tying up port 80, it will prevent those methods from working too. Maybe it's a firewall.
- Should you go into the subfolder (of the Complete Windows Package) and "look for a way to install from there"? I would say no. That package is designed to work together as a unit. If you try to dissect it and do a manual install, you are asking for trouble. If you want to do a manual install, I would recommend a generic download. But I don't recommend that (see #5).
Hi Richard,
The first port check is in the file for the install setup. It is in the xammp portcheck file and it reads:
***************************************************************
* XAMPP PortCheck v1.2 *
* *
* (c) 2005 Carsten Wiedmann <info@wiedmann-online.de> *
* *
* This script uses openport.exe: *
* (c) 2003 DiamondCS <http://www.diamondcs.com.au/openports/> *
***************************************************************
Please wait a moment...
RESULT
------
Service Port Status
==============================================================================
Apache (HTTP) 80 C:\Documents and Settings\user\My Documents\Unzipped
\MoodleWindowsInstaller-latest-19\server\apache\bin\apache.exe
Apache (WebDAV) 81 free
Apache (HTTPS) 443 C:\Documents and Settings\user\My Documents\Unzipped
\MoodleWindowsInstaller-latest-19\server\apache\bin\apache.exe
MySQL 3306 C:\Documents and Settings\user\My Documents\Unzipped
\MoodleWindowsInstaller-latest-19\server\mysql\bin\mysqld.exe
FileZilla (FTP) 21 free
FileZilla (Admin) 14147 free
Mercury (SMTP) 25 free
Mercury (POP3) 110 free
Mercury (IMAP) 143 free
Press <Return> to continue.
It is different now then the first time I tried this. It looks like maybe something is working now. Am I wrong?
The second one is also in the moodle files of the install folder but now it is reading blocked also:[Ports]
Port80=BLOCKED
Port443=BLOCKED
Port3306=FREE
Port21=FREE
Port14147=FREE
Port8080=BLOCKED
The only things I see running are the back agents and I close most of them down that I don't need showing, to make the system run better. I don't know how to shut them down completely. If I did I would and only open what I need at start up. When i do what you describe I get the box and it shows what I have open but I don't see anything that could be blocking port 80. The same again with the task manager.
Also when I go to the folders for install anywhere in the moodle files I see a little picture of a face that is some sort of Broderbund quickprints type but it will not open. It goes to my printshop program and then says the file is a different type and can't be read.
Sorry it took so long to get back to you on this. I had a family quick move happen at the end of the month. Had to recoup!
Thanks for the help,
Paula
Well,
It seems the problem solved it's self. I know I really didn't do anything different this time then I did the first time I was on my system and couldn't get it to install.
Everything is installed and I am now building my school.... on my own computer, But I just realized I don't know how this site is going to be seen on the internet from my computer. How does the public (containing my students) find their way to my site? The general url that I type into my web browser isn't the http;//local but the one with the numbers http:// 127..... and when I tried to register it with moodle it wouldn't accept it because it was a local url address. So, now what? I have tried to find the answer in the faq pages but can't. Does someone know where the answer to this question is?
I do own some domain names and have them hosted at GoDaddy so do I need to transfer everything there or can I add a link that will tie it together? If so where are the directions for all of that and do I have to start from scratch? I hope not! Help!!
Paula
PR,
I'm glad your problem is solved.
Now, you ask whether someone knows the answer to the question, how do you get your Moodle installation accessible over the Internet. I suspect that almost all of us knows the answer to that. At least 52,384 of us do, because that's how many Moodle sites are registered with moodle.org, worldwide (source: http://moodle.org/stats/).
Theoretically, you could host Moodle from your PC. You would need to get a fixed IP address, or use a dynamic DNS service. In the former case, people could access your site by the IP address, although it would be more convenient if you registered another domain name and mapped it to that IP. In the latter case, a domain name is required, because there is no IP for people to type into their browsers. And you will need to configure your firewall to allow external access to your PC on port 80. [EDIT: And you will need to install Moodle in a more secure manner. The Windows Complete Package version of Moodle is not suitable for use on servers, for lots of security reasons. That means installing and configuring Apache (or IIS) and MySQL (or PostgreSQL or MSSQL), then downloading and installing a generic version of Moodle.]
But is this practical? Do you have enough memory and disk space? Can your Internet connection handle the bandwidth? Maybe, but quite possibly not. Aside from that, do you really want to have your PC on and connected to the Internet at all times your users might want (or need) to access it? Are you prepared to handle all the questions and complaints from users when things don't work right (even when it's their fault)? And to make sure everything is backed up on a regular basis?
The better solution is probably to migrate your Moodle to GoDaddy (see Moodle migration). You can use one of your existing domain names with a subdirectory or subdomain, or better still, get another domain name. I know I've seen reports in this forum that GoDaddy can support Moodle, that is, it meets the minimum hardware and solftware requirements. Whether that's still true, I'm not sure. If not, you will need to find a new host.
If you have money to burn, the perfect Moodle host would be a Moodle Partner in your country, which happens to be my country. There are three listed at http://moodle.com/hosting/.
But if not, there are a couple of Moodle doc pages that are still works in progress that a handful of us are working on (mainly Marc Grober) to help people find a web host for Moodle: Web Hosts and Finding and Selecting A Web Host. If you find one, you can help other Moodlers in a similar situation by editing the former page, or posting your findings here or on the talk page for Web Hosts (the "page comments" tab).
RLE
I'm glad your problem is solved.
Now, you ask whether someone knows the answer to the question, how do you get your Moodle installation accessible over the Internet. I suspect that almost all of us knows the answer to that. At least 52,384 of us do, because that's how many Moodle sites are registered with moodle.org, worldwide (source: http://moodle.org/stats/).
Theoretically, you could host Moodle from your PC. You would need to get a fixed IP address, or use a dynamic DNS service. In the former case, people could access your site by the IP address, although it would be more convenient if you registered another domain name and mapped it to that IP. In the latter case, a domain name is required, because there is no IP for people to type into their browsers. And you will need to configure your firewall to allow external access to your PC on port 80. [EDIT: And you will need to install Moodle in a more secure manner. The Windows Complete Package version of Moodle is not suitable for use on servers, for lots of security reasons. That means installing and configuring Apache (or IIS) and MySQL (or PostgreSQL or MSSQL), then downloading and installing a generic version of Moodle.]
But is this practical? Do you have enough memory and disk space? Can your Internet connection handle the bandwidth? Maybe, but quite possibly not. Aside from that, do you really want to have your PC on and connected to the Internet at all times your users might want (or need) to access it? Are you prepared to handle all the questions and complaints from users when things don't work right (even when it's their fault)? And to make sure everything is backed up on a regular basis?
The better solution is probably to migrate your Moodle to GoDaddy (see Moodle migration). You can use one of your existing domain names with a subdirectory or subdomain, or better still, get another domain name. I know I've seen reports in this forum that GoDaddy can support Moodle, that is, it meets the minimum hardware and solftware requirements. Whether that's still true, I'm not sure. If not, you will need to find a new host.
If you have money to burn, the perfect Moodle host would be a Moodle Partner in your country, which happens to be my country. There are three listed at http://moodle.com/hosting/.
But if not, there are a couple of Moodle doc pages that are still works in progress that a handful of us are working on (mainly Marc Grober) to help people find a web host for Moodle: Web Hosts and Finding and Selecting A Web Host. If you find one, you can help other Moodlers in a similar situation by editing the former page, or posting your findings here or on the talk page for Web Hosts (the "page comments" tab).
RLE
Hi team,
I have moodle 1.94+ sucessfully installed on a notebook running Windows XP.
This is how I was able to go from "Webserver does not exist" and successfully install the latest version.
I hope this helps.
Cheers
Bernard
I have moodle 1.94+ sucessfully installed on a notebook running Windows XP.
This is how I was able to go from "Webserver does not exist" and successfully install the latest version.
1. Check Skype is not running
2. Turn off your personal firewall
3. Check Task Manager
a. Stop apache
b. Stop mysql
c. Ensure mysqld.exe is not running
4. Download file to local machine
a. Extract to c:\server (make new folder)
b. Rename moodle folder in path as the moodle & version number (moodle194)
c. Explore to c:\server\moodle194\server
5. Click on xampp-portcheck… results like this:
***************************************************************
* XAMPP PortCheck v1.2 *
* *
* (c) 2005 Carsten Wiedmann <info@wiedmann-online.de> *
* *
* This script uses openport.exe: *
* (c) 2003 DiamondCS <http://www.diamondcs.com.au/openports/>; *
***************************************************************
Please wait a moment...
RESULT
------
Service Port Status
==============================================================================
Apache (HTTP) 80 free
Apache (WebDAV) 81 free
Apache (HTTPS) 443 free
MySQL 3306 free
FileZilla (FTP) 21 free
FileZilla (Admin) 14147 free
Mercury (SMTP) 25 free
Mercury (POP3) 110 free
Mercury (IMAP) 143 free
Press <Return> to continue.
If not like this then you need to stop/remove the components registered in use.
6. Click on “setup_xampp.bat “
7. Click on xampp-portcheck… results like this:
==============================================================================
Apache (HTTP) 80 C:\server\moodle1945\server\apache\bin\apache.exe
Apache (WebDAV) 81 free
Apache (HTTPS) 443 C:\server\moodle1945\server\apache\bin\apache.exe
MySQL 3306 C:\server\moodle1945\server\mysql\bin\mysqld.exe
FileZilla (FTP) 21 free
FileZilla (Admin) 14147 free
Mercury (SMTP) 25 free
Mercury (POP3) 110 free
Mercury (IMAP) 143 free
Press <Return> to continue.
8. Start webserver by clicking on “xampp_start.bat”, leave this running
9. Start browser with “http://localhost “
10. Process through installation screens
If you get an error message after “http://localhost “ then take another look at your firewall settings. Once I mastered this, everything went through fine. No need to hack any files to get things going.I hope this helps.
Cheers
Bernard
Hi Bernard
I have had similar problems i.e. installed Windows version on XP laptop for trial purposes. I followed your instructions to the letter & all was fine up to the xampp-portcheck where all service ports were free.
Unfortunately when I run setup_xampp.bat in the C:\Server\Moodle194\server directory I get 'Nothing to do' and the portcheck remains the same.
My problem is that all seems to run through OK but when I go to Localhost I get 'Internet Explorer cannot Ddsplay the web page.' I had this to start with, somehow got it working, went through all the steps, saved Localhost in favourites (with Moodle image) but now it can't find anything!
Any help gratefully received!
Many thanks Richard
Dear All
I didn't get a reply to this so created a dedicated Moodle server instead.
Richard P
RP,
I didn't reply to your prev. post since it was addressed to BB. Now that it seems to be too late, this will be for future reference, and for others having the same problems.
I didn't reply to your prev. post since it was addressed to BB. Now that it seems to be too late, this will be for future reference, and for others having the same problems.
- When setup_xampp.bat says Nothing to do, it probably means it has already been set up. You only run that thing once.
- When you have installed Moodle, and saved localhost as a bookmark or favorite, and later go back to it and it can't find it, it is probably because you didn't have Apache running. You need to start up Apache (and MySQL) every time you boot up and want to access Moodle, although in my experience you probably already have MySQL starting up as a service every time you boot, but not Apache. See http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=113674#p499422.
Hi Richard
Thanks anyway! I may try again later.
Richard
RLE,
So, my next question would be... Do you suggest that I migrate all of the moodle program to GoDaddy first and then go on to build my php & sql databases and configure things, or should I continue on my personal computer and then migrate it all? If it would be best to avoid errors and such to do the transfer first then I would like to handle that first. What would be your suggestion?
I am self taught on all of this. I can't afford to take classes so you experts are invaluable. At least to me anyway.
Also, will I need to do things differently if I migrate first? As far as the databases that is.
Thanks,
PR
PR,
That depends on what you mean by migrating the "moodle program". I don't recommend migrating the Complete Windows Package to GoDaddy (or any other web host), for several reasons, chief among which are
RLE
That depends on what you mean by migrating the "moodle program". I don't recommend migrating the Complete Windows Package to GoDaddy (or any other web host), for several reasons, chief among which are
- the package is for local use only, not servers, for security reasons;
- the package includes Apache and MySQL, which GoDaddy already has; and
- the package is, as its name implies, for Windows; your GoDaddy sites are probably Linux.
- a teacher
- an administrator
RLE
No, you are not wrong. You have plenty of memory and hard disk space, way more than you need for a local Moodle installation.
You say you have run tests to see if port 80 is available and gotten conflicting results. If you want help on that, it would be useful if you could tell us what tests you ran. I believe that if port 80 is in use, it usually means one of three things:
You say you have run tests to see if port 80 is available and gotten conflicting results. If you want help on that, it would be useful if you could tell us what tests you ran. I believe that if port 80 is in use, it usually means one of three things:
- Apache is already running;
- IIS is running; or
- Skype is running.
DP,
What a clever way of putting it! Why do I have the feeling I've seen that before? Oh yeah! Those are the first three paragraphs of my post of March 24 in this thread. Word for word.
Also, both posts are a reply to a post by PR. Mine was answering her question, "Could I be wrong?" This time, she asked a completely different question. So your nostalgic post is no longer relevant.
Anyway, when I want to refer to a point made in an earlier post, I usually use a link to it (as I did in my last post) rather than copy the whole thing. That is more economical, and more ecological. And less plagiaristic.
RLE
What a clever way of putting it! Why do I have the feeling I've seen that before? Oh yeah! Those are the first three paragraphs of my post of March 24 in this thread. Word for word.
Also, both posts are a reply to a post by PR. Mine was answering her question, "Could I be wrong?" This time, she asked a completely different question. So your nostalgic post is no longer relevant.
Anyway, when I want to refer to a point made in an earlier post, I usually use a link to it (as I did in my last post) rather than copy the whole thing. That is more economical, and more ecological. And less plagiaristic.
RLE