I really hope those of you with an interest in the new gradebook can try out Moodle 1.9 Beta and give us your thoughts and feedback about it (in the Moodle Tracker). Your feedback will be invaluable in helping us polish the interface and write more documentation.
If you can't install it (you can get it from CVS HEAD or packaged from the Moodle downloads page) then please try http://test.moodle.com ... enrolling in the gradebook course will make you a teacher automatically (it has over 5000 students to play with).
We've done our best to follow the spec (although we had to make a few design changes along the way as it unfolded) - I hope it meets (or will soon meet) the needs of everyone.
Can 1.7 or 1.8 information be imported into 1.9 with a straight SQL import in phpMyAdmin? If so I can use old information to test it, possibly.
To really test it, it would be better if you allowed Moodle to upgrade the gradebook from 1.7 or 1.8 to 1.9 and then tested it with that data. Peace - Anthony
In reply to Anthony Borrow
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Martin Dougiamas -
Yes, that's 100% correct.
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by David Fountain -
My thoughts on GB1.9 so far.
It looks very busy at first glance and can be daunting I would imagine, especially for new users, but I think its a good idea to show everything and have the user turn the bits off they don't want.
It has some very nice collapsible sections and I like that columns can grow to allow more space to enter stuff.
I would like to see a setting to allow the column headings to be repeated every n rows (as in GBPlusv2) as it is very easy to scroll down and lose which column is which. I know we can set the no. of students per page but I find this to be counter-productive, involving too many extra clicks to get to the required student, particularly in a busy marking/feedback session that I often run with groups.
The column headings are linked to their assignments (or other source) with the exception of any manual grade items, I would like to see them link to the description that was put in for that grade item.
The aggregate heading could also be linked to the assignment.
Overall I think the team have taken a massive step forward, I'll have to spend some time looking at how to create reports as this looks to be a very exciting area.
Thank you.
Dave
It looks very busy at first glance and can be daunting I would imagine, especially for new users, but I think its a good idea to show everything and have the user turn the bits off they don't want.
It has some very nice collapsible sections and I like that columns can grow to allow more space to enter stuff.
I would like to see a setting to allow the column headings to be repeated every n rows (as in GBPlusv2) as it is very easy to scroll down and lose which column is which. I know we can set the no. of students per page but I find this to be counter-productive, involving too many extra clicks to get to the required student, particularly in a busy marking/feedback session that I often run with groups.
The column headings are linked to their assignments (or other source) with the exception of any manual grade items, I would like to see them link to the description that was put in for that grade item.
The aggregate heading could also be linked to the assignment.
Overall I think the team have taken a massive step forward, I'll have to spend some time looking at how to create reports as this looks to be a very exciting area.
Thank you.
Dave
I second David's comments.
Other observations so far:
1. Performance: Please see MDL-11920
2. After click on "Turn editing on" there are a lot of pen (edit buttons) floating around. UI-wise this is kind of confusing, especially for new teachers. There should be a better way to do this (it looks really busy!) Also, maybe by default the comments should be hided (only showing the grade and if teachers really want, they could then click on the "edit" button for that specific assignment/quiz/course total to show comments? (created MDL-11924)
3. Glad to know that finally for quiz/assignment now we could use decimals! Yeah! However I found a bug and had reported to MDL-11922
Will report more later.
Other observations so far:
1. Performance: Please see MDL-11920
2. After click on "Turn editing on" there are a lot of pen (edit buttons) floating around. UI-wise this is kind of confusing, especially for new teachers. There should be a better way to do this (it looks really busy!) Also, maybe by default the comments should be hided (only showing the grade and if teachers really want, they could then click on the "edit" button for that specific assignment/quiz/course total to show comments? (created MDL-11924)
3. Glad to know that finally for quiz/assignment now we could use decimals! Yeah! However I found a bug and had reported to MDL-11922
Will report more later.
For the pen icon, we might be able to hide the edit icons in the idividual cells using something like:
.some_class_or_other td img.edit { visibility: hidden; }
.some_class_or_other td:hover img.edit { visibility: visible; }
so that they only show up in the cell you are hovering over. That is how close buttons on tabs work in Eclipse.
Of course, you would need to check this works reliably cross-browser, and you would need to do something to make it accessible.
.some_class_or_other td img.edit { visibility: hidden; }
.some_class_or_other td:hover img.edit { visibility: visible; }
so that they only show up in the cell you are hovering over. That is how close buttons on tabs work in Eclipse.
Of course, you would need to check this works reliably cross-browser, and you would need to do something to make it accessible.
Good point Tim! Yeah accessibility is really our first priority now so if you come up with any solution to make it more accessible please let us know. Thanks!
I have started to review the gradebook for 1.9
I have preferences for show/hide toggles set as follows:
Show/hide toggles
Show show/hide icons 
Site default (No)
When I sign in as a tutor and view the gradebook I can see the show/hide icons. As prefences are set to not show these, I am surprised to see them and would not want them available for a tutor (I want a tutor to see their group only).
I have check permissions for a tutor and believe they are set correctly. Am I right in thinking that the tutor should not see the show/hide icons?
The help box for the "Show show/hide icons" preference says:
"Whether to show a show/hide icon near each grade (controlling its visibility to the user)."
This preference is within the section "Show/hide toggles".
I am saying this so that you understand the distinction between "toggles" and "icons". Toggles are the switches you see at the top of the grader report. The show/hide icons are the eyes (opened or closed) near each grade or grade item/category.
There is no current preference for hiding/showing the hide/show toggles. If you think there should be one, please enter a suggestion for improvement in the moodle tracker (http://tracker.moodle.org/secure/CreateIssue!default.jspa)
Thanks for testing the gradebook
"Whether to show a show/hide icon near each grade (controlling its visibility to the user)."
This preference is within the section "Show/hide toggles".
I am saying this so that you understand the distinction between "toggles" and "icons". Toggles are the switches you see at the top of the grader report. The show/hide icons are the eyes (opened or closed) near each grade or grade item/category.
There is no current preference for hiding/showing the hide/show toggles. If you think there should be one, please enter a suggestion for improvement in the moodle tracker (http://tracker.moodle.org/secure/CreateIssue!default.jspa)
Thanks for testing the gradebook
From EDIT CATEGORIES & ITEMS, I have hidden items Test Quiz 5 and Test Quiz 7.
Edit Categories and Items
Test Course 102
categorygrade" src="http://icmatest.vledev.open.ac.uk/1.9/pix/smartpix.php/ou/i/category_grade.gif" />Course total
- Formal Assessment
categorygrade" src="http://icmatest.vledev.open.ac.uk/1.9/pix/smartpix.php/ou/i/category_grade.gif" />Formal Assessment Average
Test Quiz 5
- Test Quiz 6
- Test Quiz 7
- Self Assessment
categorygrade" src="http://icmatest.vledev.open.ac.uk/1.9/pix/smartpix.php/ou/i/category_grade.gif" />Self Assessment Average
- Test Quiz 8
On viewing the USER REPORT for a student, items Test Quiz 5 and Test Quiz 7 are still visible? I would not expect them to be visible to the student?
On viewing the GRADER REPORT for a tutor, items Test Quiz 5 and Test Quiz 7 are still visible? I would not expect them to be visible to the tutor?
Have I misunderstood the functionality?
I see what you're trying to do. However the show/hide icon is for "Grades", not for activities. Although your students can see the grade items, their grades for these items won't appear if they're set as "hidden".
As for "tutors", it's a matter of capabilities. For the moment, there aren't very many capabilities within the gradebook (See Administration->Users->Permissions->Define Roles->Non-editing Teachers/Tutors). Hiding some items completely from the gradebook is not part of these. At the moment it's probably a good idea to prevent tutors from managing the gradebook.
However, the grader report always shows ALL the grades. The hiding and showing of grades is meant for students, as it affects only the user report. The grader report is a sort of administration panel for graders (tutors are also graders I imagine), in which they can control what is finally shown to their students.
If you have suggestions for improvements please share them with us on this forum
As for "tutors", it's a matter of capabilities. For the moment, there aren't very many capabilities within the gradebook (See Administration->Users->Permissions->Define Roles->Non-editing Teachers/Tutors). Hiding some items completely from the gradebook is not part of these. At the moment it's probably a good idea to prevent tutors from managing the gradebook.
However, the grader report always shows ALL the grades. The hiding and showing of grades is meant for students, as it affects only the user report. The grader report is a sort of administration panel for graders (tutors are also graders I imagine), in which they can control what is finally shown to their students.
If you have suggestions for improvements please share them with us on this forum
I have hidden items Test Quiz 5 and Test Quiz 7 as shown in the previous post, but when reviewing the students USER REPORT I can still see the grades? This is shown below. Is this a bug? I would not expect to see the grades?
User report - test student1
| Grade item | Grade | Percent | Rank | Feedback | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Formal Assessment Average | 72.2 | 72.2% | 2/5 | ||
|
Test Quiz 5 | 4.0 | 66.7% | 2/5 | |
|
|
Test Quiz 6 | 3.0 | 50.0% | 3/5 | |
|
|
Test Quiz 7 | 6.0 | 100.0% | 1/5 | |
| Self Assessment Average | 66.7 | 66.7% | 1/5 | ||
|
|
Test Quiz 8 | 4.0 | 66.7% | 1/5 | |
| Course total | 69.4 | 69.4% | 2/5 |
My reading of Nicholas' reply above is that while you *as the course teacher* need always to see the grades (including student USER REPORT) the student himself/herself does not see the grades that are hidden. You can easily verify this by going to Participants and logging in as a student (or ask your Moodle admin to show you this) then go to Administration : Grades and you'll see the assignment but not the grade.
BTW, this neatly addresses my faculty's desire to release all grades together -- just hide the grades until they are all done then unhide. Bonza!
BTW, this neatly addresses my faculty's desire to release all grades together -- just hide the grades until they are all done then unhide. Bonza!
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Julian Ridden -
I found a bug with HotPotato's and the new Gradebook. I wont duplicate the post, but you can find it here ( http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=78417#p348738 ).
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Wen Hao Chuang -
Hi Martin could you consider turn on the performance info on the test.moodle.com as I have started to notice some pages loading really slowly on this site. Thanks!
Martin - If you are going to do any tweaking to test.moodle.com it might also be helpful to install openssl and xmlrpc so that Moodle Networking could be tested further. Peace - Anthony
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Susan Gould-Leighton -
This looks so promising. Someone has already set-up a Scale that is based upon the "MAINE LEARNING RESULTS". I believe it is someone from Foxcroft Academy.
I would love to be able to start a collaboration since I am also in Maine and my school is trying to move to a Standards -based grading system . Just yesterday Craig Kesselheim shared some of the work Foxcroft has been doing that is why I recognize the scale.
If anyone can tell me how to contact the author it would be great,
susang
I would love to be able to start a collaboration since I am also in Maine and my school is trying to move to a Standards -based grading system . Just yesterday Craig Kesselheim shared some of the work Foxcroft has been doing that is why I recognize the scale.
If anyone can tell me how to contact the author it would be great,
susang
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Wen Hao Chuang -
Just found another issue. Gradebook 1.9 will still include the forum on the list when the forum was first set to use ratings (which then made it considered as "gradable"), then later on change the forum setting to not using "use ratings". I have reported this as MDL-12042. Actually this is an issue that got carried over from moodle 1.5 and I could reproduce the problem with all major moodle releases. Just a quick FYI.
We might want to do some more testing to see if the new gradebook interface with other modules correctly, just my 2c.
We might want to do some more testing to see if the new gradebook interface with other modules correctly, just my 2c.
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Tony Spedaliere -
i just loaded the beta release and when i try to view my grades... i get a blank screen... any ideas?
As a student, you should be able to see the "Grades" link on the left of the course:
http://test.moodle.com/grade/report/grader/index.php?id=4
http://test.moodle.com/grade/report/grader/index.php?id=4
The 1.9 Test site won't let me create an account because the Country field is not selectable. Thanks.
Steve
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Wen Hao Chuang -
Just another quick report, we had this problem with 1.8 gradebook (and GBPv2) that one of the BIG courses (which has like 1200+ students), the teacher can not view grades when click on "View Grades" and "Edit Grades" tabs (got a blank screen). The problem is that the "view grades" page is using an extraordinary amount of memory to build the table that displays the grades for a large number of students and/or assignments. We temporarily resolved this issue by increasing the PHP max memory limit to 128MB. I haven't tested the new 1.9 gradebook yet but just thought that I should share this case with the moodle community. In 1.9 I think we should consider schools that are running large classes and should try to reduce the memory footprint for gradebook 1.9 as much as poosible. Just my 2 cents.
Wen - Actually you raise a good point. Because of the intensive nature of the grade page, it would seem to make even more sense that we have options for how many students to see. We do this in other places like assignment submissions, viewing quiz attempts, etc. I think that we should do a similar thing with the grade page. Having a row for firstname, lastname and the letters of the alphabet (and an ALL link) to help narrow down the selection would be very helpful. Allowing for pages and setting the number of students to view per page would also help and in my opinion be more consistent with the UI we see in other places. So +2 cents = 4 cents. Dare I ask that you create another issue in the tracker for the GBPv2. I think that would be a very positive addition. Peace - Anthony
In reply to Wen Hao Chuang
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Martin Dougiamas -
That was one of the main reasons we re-wrote the gradebook in 1.9. 
I have just upgraded our system to 1.9. A couple questions:
1. Is there a way to turn off Feedback column in the User Report?
2. After installation, our course total grade is showing the total grade without using the weights. For example, a couple of assignments have not yet been provided, so the total grade weight allocated thus far is 75%, but the new Gradebook does not take this into account, and shows the student grades for the 100% lot. Does that make sense?
3. Overall, I am enjoying the many new options!
Cheers,
Brent Lee
1. Is there a way to turn off Feedback column in the User Report?
2. After installation, our course total grade is showing the total grade without using the weights. For example, a couple of assignments have not yet been provided, so the total grade weight allocated thus far is 75%, but the new Gradebook does not take this into account, and shows the student grades for the 100% lot. Does that make sense?
3. Overall, I am enjoying the many new options!
Cheers,
Brent Lee
Re 2, see this: http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=84381
You probably want to change the aggregation for your course grade to be "Simple Weighted Mean of Grades"
You probably want to change the aggregation for your course grade to be "Simple Weighted Mean of Grades"
Is there a way to turn off or hide the percent column in the user report?
Thanks
Sarah
Thanks
Sarah
I have recently upgraded to the new gradebook, and I am trying to change a formula now with some difficulties. This might be a bug, but I am not sure. I ave colon's in my assignment names. Please see attached picture for more information.
--B
--B
Don't use the full names ... use the idnumber fields ... you may have to set some for each activity (make them simple!)
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Sarah Quantick -
Difficulty with Importing Grades into Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
I have tried a number of methods of importing grades
I have a standard scale of 69-150 when I imported grades from a CSV file they all ended up as 150.
I have another standard scale which combines numbers and letters i.e 27-4b, 29-4a etc when I tried to import grades using this scale I get invalid scale. I double checked this by manually inputing the grades which worked fine and the exporting them and trying to reimport them but once again got invalid scale.
Can some one please help.
Thanks
Sarah
I have tried a number of methods of importing grades
I have a standard scale of 69-150 when I imported grades from a CSV file they all ended up as 150.
I have another standard scale which combines numbers and letters i.e 27-4b, 29-4a etc when I tried to import grades using this scale I get invalid scale. I double checked this by manually inputing the grades which worked fine and the exporting them and trying to reimport them but once again got invalid scale.
Can some one please help.
Thanks
Sarah
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Sarah Quantick -
Setting Catergories
Is there another way of setting catergories in 1.9. It is far more informative and has more options than previous gradebooks however it does take longer to set catergories for each assignment. This is a particulardisadvantage for courses that have a large number of assingments.
Thanks
Sarah
In reply to Sarah Quantick
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Martin Dougiamas -
Sarah, can you be a bit more explicit about how you you would LIKE to be able to do this? There were some plans to make more of a drag and drop interface but it won't be in 1.9.
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Thomas Wensink -
Greetings all and thanks for all of your work on the new gradebook!
I have another questions about categories in the gradebook for 1.9. If this was already answered somewhere, I apologize. Is it going to be possible to set up sub-categories in 1.9? For example, I would love to have two categories: "First Semester" and "Second Semester", each of which has sub-categories for Tests, Homework, etc.
I would like to avoid having to create separate courses for each semester!
Cheers!
-Thomas Wensink
I have another questions about categories in the gradebook for 1.9. If this was already answered somewhere, I apologize. Is it going to be possible to set up sub-categories in 1.9? For example, I would love to have two categories: "First Semester" and "Second Semester", each of which has sub-categories for Tests, Homework, etc.
I would like to avoid having to create separate courses for each semester!
Cheers!
-Thomas Wensink
Yes, categories can be nested as deeply as you like.
I enrolled in the Clean Gradebook Course at http://test.moodle.com; but in the participants list I see myself among students. I can see the grades of all participants but when I tried to import/export plugins I saw the message "Sorry, but you do not currently have permissions to do that (Import grades)". I just wanted to see how a teacher can import grades ( as CSV file) to the gradebook.
Ps: After posting this I noticed that " This course does not have open teacher access, so the gradebook is likely to be less messed up with experiments". So it seems either the settings have been changed or this "Clean Gradebook Course" is different from the "gradebook course" you mentioned.
Ps: After posting this I noticed that " This course does not have open teacher access, so the gradebook is likely to be less messed up with experiments". So it seems either the settings have been changed or this "Clean Gradebook Course" is different from the "gradebook course" you mentioned.
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Wen Hao Chuang -
Martin, just curious, is the original gradebook 1.9 spec document online somewhere? If so where could I find it, thanks!
By the way, for now, is the gradebook 1.9 GUI pretty much "finalized" and won't be changed at all? I might be able to get our support team to take a look at the GUI in gradebook 1.9 and they could provide more insight from teachers/students' perspective. Hopefully these comments could help improving the current GUI and usability of gradebook 1.9. However, if the GUI is pretty much "finalized" then such feedback probably won't help that much then.
Anthony Borrow and I are working on some kinks in GBPv2, usability-wise (at least for us), so far I still kind of prefer the GUI in GBPv2 over the new gradebook 1.9 (I haven't done extensive testing though so I could be wrong). Eventually if the gradebook could be like a plugin and could be easily replaced by another 3rd party gradebook (e.g. GBPv3, etc.) based on different preferences of GUI for different institutional needs, I think that would be really wonderful. Just my 2 cents.
By the way, for now, is the gradebook 1.9 GUI pretty much "finalized" and won't be changed at all? I might be able to get our support team to take a look at the GUI in gradebook 1.9 and they could provide more insight from teachers/students' perspective. Hopefully these comments could help improving the current GUI and usability of gradebook 1.9. However, if the GUI is pretty much "finalized" then such feedback probably won't help that much then.
Anthony Borrow and I are working on some kinks in GBPv2, usability-wise (at least for us), so far I still kind of prefer the GUI in GBPv2 over the new gradebook 1.9 (I haven't done extensive testing though so I could be wrong). Eventually if the gradebook could be like a plugin and could be easily replaced by another 3rd party gradebook (e.g. GBPv3, etc.) based on different preferences of GUI for different institutional needs, I think that would be really wonderful. Just my 2 cents.
Wen - Keep in mind that my hope is the GBPv2 is made completely obsolete by the 1.9 gradebook. I think that our goal would be to make the Moodle core gradebook flexible enough to handle what folks need without need of a patch. That would free up a lot of time, energy, etc. for developing the core rather than maintaining a patch. Peace - Anthony
Anthony, I understand that your hope is the GBPv2 is made completely obsolete by the gradebook 1.9 (me too, I'm hoping the same thing). I agree what you said about making "Moodle core gradebook flexible enough to handle what folks need without need of a patch." So far any observation what still need to be done in gradebook 1.9 codes in order to achieve this goal (e.g., is the current 1.9 GUI has enough options or is flexible enough for different types of institutions to meet their needs..etc.)? Just curious...
Thanks again for your contribution in the moodle community. Really appreciate that.
Thanks again for your contribution in the moodle community. Really appreciate that.
Wen - I have not had a great deal of time to play with 1.9 gradebook but what I have seen provides a great deal of flexibility. I remain optimistic about its continued development. Peace - Anthony
In reply to Wen Hao Chuang
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Martin Dougiamas -
Wen, the entire gradebook is not a plugin, and with good reasons (I think). It is very helpful for other parts of the code if they can make some assumptions about how the grades are stored - what the data model is.
But in the new gradebook, all the parts of the interface that students and teachers see are plugins, so if you don't like the interface of the standard grader report, for example, you can make a new plugin to replace it. Hopefully, that is enough flexibility.
But in the new gradebook, all the parts of the interface that students and teachers see are plugins, so if you don't like the interface of the standard grader report, for example, you can make a new plugin to replace it. Hopefully, that is enough flexibility.
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Wen Hao Chuang -
By the way, I just installed a moodle 1.9 beta3 instance on our testing server and restored the moodle test case course (http://download.moodle.org/testcourse/), I think the moodle test case course was designed for moodle 1.6 (correct me if I'm wrong), and found a minor glitch (see MDL-12841), will report more issues when I can find some more non-working time to test it.
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: Please help us test the new Moodle 1.9 Gradebook
by Wen Hao Chuang -
Just started to take a deeper look at gradebook 1.9 and found this when you "turn editing on" in gradebook 1.9
If you enter a grade that is out of bound (say, the max is 100 and you enter 101, then you will get a brown?-colored warning message), however if you enter some text (when it suppose to have number in the grade), then your grade will be automatically be reset to 0.00 but no warning message (see screenshot). I think this is not consistent and maybe can be improved. Just my 2c.
If you enter a grade that is out of bound (say, the max is 100 and you enter 101, then you will get a brown?-colored warning message), however if you enter some text (when it suppose to have number in the grade), then your grade will be automatically be reset to 0.00 but no warning message (see screenshot). I think this is not consistent and maybe can be improved. Just my 2c.
