Hello
I published a quiz on moodle to test the student's reaction to the online format... some were impressed, others non-plussed and at least one was smart enough to see that a quick
ctrl+a
ctrl+c
alt+tab to a notepad
ctrl + v
was enough for him, Fast Finger Freddy, to get all of the questions of the test copied and into a notepad in four quick key strokes. I love students like him but he's identified what is a major display security issue. All of the questions for a test appear on one page making it very easy to copy the entire test.
Admin should have the option of displaying only one question per page so as to discourage Fast Freddy from copying... or at least give the teacher more time to chase down what could be suspicious behavior while adminning the test in the classroom.
Please provide an option that allows only one question per page with multiple pages strung toghether to complete a full test.
thank you,
Denny
One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Dennis Daniels -
Number of replies: 21
In reply to Dennis Daniels
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Martin Dougiamas -
A small heavy thought: you might want to think about your teaching strategy
here and focus on student learning and better forms of assessment. Using the quiz activity as a form of serious assessment is not really
advisable - not only will there always be ways to cheat at these things but the relationship of quiz results to actual learning is quite questionable.
I realise this point of view may be frustrating so here is an easier suggestion that may help in the short term: build up a larger database of questions and use only "Random questions" in your quiz to randomly select a subset for each quiz attempt. You can also turn on question shuffling and answer shuffling to further frustrate Freddy.
I realise this point of view may be frustrating so here is an easier suggestion that may help in the short term: build up a larger database of questions and use only "Random questions" in your quiz to randomly select a subset for each quiz attempt. You can also turn on question shuffling and answer shuffling to further frustrate Freddy.
In reply to Dennis Daniels
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Timothy Takemoto -
Dear Denny,
At the momement, there is Rob Butner's recent anti-back button, anti-copying hack. http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=2425&parent=17505
(Thanks Rob!) Rob's hack will deal with Fast Freddy, until he gets a bit cleverer. In the past John Bristor developed somethign similar but sadly he departed before sharing his generous additions.
Also there is not yet a one question per page option.
I think that this would be rather nice not only because
1) It would prevent one click whole quiz testing as you say,
But also
2) It might be possible to implement feedback and encouragement part way through the quiz with a one question per page and a "mark each page seperately" function.
3) Once muliple page quizing, and "mark each page seperately" is in place it would be more straightforward to implement INTRA-quiz conditional linking (so that students go only proceed forward if they answer previous questions, or a percentage of them, correctly). INTER quiz conditional linking is provided by Bernard's Dark Side of the Moodle.
4) Questions might then be grouped into relevant sections folloing a "description question" (which is not a question at all, just a dummy question containing a description).
5) With the addition of a browser back button blocking system (as provided by Rob Butner and John Bristor), it would be even more difficult to get back out of the quiz.
6) As it stands there can be a threatening number of questions per page.
Please bear in mind that The Main Moodler, Martin, is not wild about jump-through-hoops, would-be-strict/straitjacket type testing functions so we would be looking to develop this ourselves.
I actually managed to write a line of useful php (my chatroom now sends me a mail when people log in!) recently so perhaps I may even be able to help, one day.
Tim
Timothy Takemoto
In reply to Timothy Takemoto
Paged quizzes (was: One question per page to discourage...)
by Przemyslaw Stencel -
I must say that I agree with Martin that the "cheating arms race" between teachers and students does not lead anywhere, but I do think that some of your points are very valid and worth looking into.
My thoughts/suggestions:
My thoughts/suggestions:
- It shouldn't be one-question-per-page, but it should be possible to group any number of questions on a quiz page. The way I imagine it, there could be a button saying "insert page breaks" in the left pane of the quiz design window. After clicking on the button the list of quiz questions would be reloaded, with a "page break here" checkbox between all questions. The teacher would then be able to split the quiz into as many pages as necessary. Each page of the quiz would have "Next Page" and "Previous Page" buttons.
- Clicking on the "Next Page" or "Previous Page" button would automatically save answers on the current page. This would help prevent situations when, in a long quiz, a student spends a long time answering quiz questions, presses the "Submit Quiz" button, only to find that "The page cannot be displayed", for whatever reason.
In reply to Dennis Daniels
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Marcus Green -
I want this feature, though my requirement was to allow the student to concentrate on one question at a time rather than to prevent copying. I even got as far as creating a setting in the exam creation screen that said "show one question at a time", but then I got distracted after spending some time reading the code that would have to be modified.
Marcus
Marcus
In reply to Marcus Green
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Przemyslaw Stencel -
My humble plea to anyone attempting this hack:Please, don't make this either "all questions on one page" or "one question at a time". Allow for groupings of any number of questions on a quiz page.
This was actually a disadvantage of WebCT when we were using it. We could only have all at once or one at a time. Sometimes I needed to group a few questions together (because they were related to one another), but I still wanted them to be displayed separately from the rest of the quiz (e.g. to avoid distractions, or simply to avoid long downloads)
In reply to Przemyslaw Stencel
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Bob Calder -
I second that emotion! ;-)
Breaking a whole class's pace to prevent a minority from cheating seems harsh.
I am all for being evil. - But - I like to get my kicks making my students think. I want the good ones to come back to my classroom!
Perhaps it would be a bit better to allow for a larger test bank (than necessary) in order to get several tests with 20 to 30 percent of the questions completely different AND in a different order. All you would have to do in the randomizing section of the code would be to specify a number of questions out of the total in a particular class of questions - ie - 70 on this quiz out of the total 100 available for the quiz labeled "PHP for the Lazy Sod."
At least I hope that's all Martin would have to do.
BTW, does anybody want a module that would allow a person with Moodle on their laptop to export a single activity and append to a course/record on their server at school? I ran my class from my laptop last summer and now I miss sitting on the back porch, creating new materials whilst chortling in glee at my cleverness. <- a nod to the season
Merry cheery holiday wishes to all of you lovely people on Moodle who can help Martin.
You have made my life sooooo much fun.
Bob
Breaking a whole class's pace to prevent a minority from cheating seems harsh.
I am all for being evil. - But - I like to get my kicks making my students think. I want the good ones to come back to my classroom!
Perhaps it would be a bit better to allow for a larger test bank (than necessary) in order to get several tests with 20 to 30 percent of the questions completely different AND in a different order. All you would have to do in the randomizing section of the code would be to specify a number of questions out of the total in a particular class of questions - ie - 70 on this quiz out of the total 100 available for the quiz labeled "PHP for the Lazy Sod."
At least I hope that's all Martin would have to do.
BTW, does anybody want a module that would allow a person with Moodle on their laptop to export a single activity and append to a course/record on their server at school? I ran my class from my laptop last summer and now I miss sitting on the back porch, creating new materials whilst chortling in glee at my cleverness. <- a nod to the season
Merry cheery holiday wishes to all of you lovely people on Moodle who can help Martin.
You have made my life sooooo much fun.
Bob
In reply to Bob Calder
export a single activity (Was: One question per page...)
by Przemyslaw Stencel -
You asked: does anybody want a module that would allow a person with Moodle on
their laptop to export a single activity and append to a course/record
on their server at school?
Check out this thread
Check out this thread
In reply to Bob Calder
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Martin Dougiamas -
Bob wrote: "Perhaps it would be a bit better to allow for a larger test bank (than
necessary) in order to get several tests with 20 to 30 percent of the
questions completely different AND in a different order. All you would
have to do in the randomizing section of the code would be to specify a
number of questions out of the total in a particular class of questions
- ie - 70 on this quiz out of the total 100 available for the quiz
labeled "PHP for the Lazy Sod."
This is already quite possible, Bob!
Create your 100 questions, then create X random questions in the same category and add those to the quiz. There's even a shortcut for creating the X questions in one step (the button "Create multiple questions").
This is already quite possible, Bob!
In reply to Bob Calder
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Ger Tielemans -
One of the tricks is to create several questions that look almost the same: remembering does not help, the details make the (answer) difference..
Helps also to create faster a bigger number of questions for the random function..
In reply to Ger Tielemans
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Timothy Takemoto -
Thank's Ger, that is a very useful suggestion. I am just implementing it on a test I am making now.
But wait! If I do this and two (or more) virtually identical questions are included in the same test, then it will make the test pretty easy. There is no way of randomising so that questions are arranged in 'one, and only one, of the following' groups.
Are your random question pools so big that it is rare that the alternatives are included twice?
Timothy Takemoto
In reply to Timothy Takemoto
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Martin Dougiamas -
"There is no way of randomising so that questions are arranged in 'one, and only one, of the following' groups."
Yes there is: use separate categories for each group of questions. The random questions only draw from their own category.
Yes there is: use separate categories for each group of questions. The random questions only draw from their own category.
In reply to Martin Dougiamas
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Timothy Takemoto -
Thanks Martin,
I have been occupied to the extent that I did not see this kind suggestion.
But...in practice, lets say I want a 10 question test about a resource text called "oodle." Normally I just write about 14 questions in a category called "oodle_questions"and make a quiz to set a random selection of those 14.
However, the suggestion above that I make an post slight alternatives would be good. It would mean that I would not have to write an extra four questions, just make a variations on each of the ten questions I write. Variations are much easier to write than good new questions.
But it would not be enough to have a categories of questions called "oodle_questions" and "oodle_questions_variations," I would have to create categories named something like
"oodle_question1_with_variations"
"oodle_question2_with_variations"
"oodle_question3_with_variations"
"oodle_question4_with_variations"
"oodle_question5_with_variations"
"oodle_question6_with_variations"
"oodle_question7_with_variations"
"oodle_question8_with_variations"
"oodle_question9_with_variations"
"oodle_question10_with_variations"
And then randomise so that I get one questions from each category.
I like the idea, but I would no longer be able to import the questions in one file of 14 questions but rather 10 files of two questions, and it sound like this would take longer than writing the 14 questions.
Perhaps if it were posible to specify the category in the import file. But then I would have to write the category each time. Umm...If it were possible to export from CSV (Excel files), instead of text files so that things taht repeat in each questions could copied by column, then this might work.
Tim
Timothy Takemoto
In reply to Timothy Takemoto
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Ger Tielemans -
Rethinking..
If you know all the answers, yes.....
..but not if you do not know the answer on these almost the same questions: you must play the game "even or double"
A WISH: If categories can get levels in the future, you can create sets of almost the same questions and then random choose one from each set...
In reply to Marcus Green
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Ger Tielemans -
Why not organise several sub-quizzes in a Moodle section:
- students see a section with the name of the test as title on it
- then several titles of subquizzes:
- several parts, maybe also the points they can earn,
- so they can choose their strategic workflow for that test?
To give an example: If we create a listen exercise:
- we start a (sub)quiz with the no-question-block: an introduction and the embedded sound player together in thate first frame
- then all the questions about that soundfragment one by one on their own question cards: this row looks very clean and nice, gives students good overview of their subtask.
- next test has a new soundplayercontent + new questions etc..
In reply to Ger Tielemans
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Grant McWilliams -
This topic seems to get people a little worked up. We all have our own needs in the classroom so I vote that we have a gadget of some sort where we input how many questions we want on a page. I want one question because that gives me the space to have graphics, multiple choice, essay etc... on the page. Also when people get a queston wrong I have a section that explains why the answer is wrong. The test keeps track of a persons score as they progress through the test. Some of my tests have as much as 70 questons on them. If this were on one page that would be a really long test!
The other reason is most of my students will be venturing into a Prometric or Vue testing center to get certified and I'd like to match their environment as much as possible and they do one question per page.
Future needs: Adaptive testing
In the future I will need something that will be much harder to implement. I need the choice of the next queston to be based on how well the student did on the current question. If a student got the question right the next one would A) be from a different group or B) be a harder question with a heavier weighting.
A lot of reason I am playing with moodle is for testing so I NEED these features and will create them as soon as I figure out how. I'm currently doing almost all of this in javascript.
Oh yeah, I may create a Hot Potatos import filter when I get time.
Grant
The other reason is most of my students will be venturing into a Prometric or Vue testing center to get certified and I'd like to match their environment as much as possible and they do one question per page.
Future needs: Adaptive testing
In the future I will need something that will be much harder to implement. I need the choice of the next queston to be based on how well the student did on the current question. If a student got the question right the next one would A) be from a different group or B) be a harder question with a heavier weighting.
A lot of reason I am playing with moodle is for testing so I NEED these features and will create them as soon as I figure out how. I'm currently doing almost all of this in javascript.
Oh yeah, I may create a Hot Potatos import filter when I get time.
Grant
In reply to Grant McWilliams
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Art Lader -
The Hot Potatoes filter would be a great addition to Moodle. Several teachers at my school would love to see it.
Hope you take it on.
Best regards,
Art Lader
Aiken HS
Hope you take it on.
Best regards,
Art Lader
Aiken HS
In reply to Art Lader
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Grant McWilliams -
It wouldn't be that hard. Just parse the file and grab the array. That is for the JBC files. After the array is grabbed it would almost be like the aiken filter.
Grant
Grant
In reply to Grant McWilliams
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Marcus Green -
I have built a tool that attempts to mimic some of the Vue/Prometric style testing which you can see in action at
http://www.jchq.net/phezam/login.php
(user=guest pwd=password).
I spent a little time looking at the quiz code to see what might be needed to insert that kind of functionality into quiz module. Based on building my tool and assuming the use of objects I figure you might need the following...
A quiz object (or array?) that contained an array of questions. When you make an attempt on a quiz the questions in the array are populated from the database (or perhaps just the question id's get populated.). As you click the forward and backwards button the response given would be stored in the currently pointed to question in the array, so that when you go back a screen the correct options are checked. Then once you submit the mark/score button the array of questions are submitted for the moodle marking. One of the differences between what I have done and what moodle does is that I only have multi choice questions whereas moodle allows for other styles of questions.
I figure this kind of conversion would take me quite a bit of time to complete.
Any comments
http://www.jchq.net/phezam/login.php
(user=guest pwd=password).
I spent a little time looking at the quiz code to see what might be needed to insert that kind of functionality into quiz module. Based on building my tool and assuming the use of objects I figure you might need the following...
A quiz object (or array?) that contained an array of questions. When you make an attempt on a quiz the questions in the array are populated from the database (or perhaps just the question id's get populated.). As you click the forward and backwards button the response given would be stored in the currently pointed to question in the array, so that when you go back a screen the correct options are checked. Then once you submit the mark/score button the array of questions are submitted for the moodle marking. One of the differences between what I have done and what moodle does is that I only have multi choice questions whereas moodle allows for other styles of questions.
I figure this kind of conversion would take me quite a bit of time to complete.
Any comments
In reply to Marcus Green
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Grant McWilliams -
Thats exactly what I need! Of course a better quiz creation screen would be needed as well...
Here is how I've been getting around it. Keep in mind these are practice tests and not used for a grade since they are javascript...
http://soundlinuxtraining.com/resources/aplus/tests/index.html
It's basically hacked up Hot Potatos javascript that gets the job done. I just insert all of my questions in the array in the .js file and I have a test. Not very elegent and doesn't keep track of the students progress is the format that I need.
I've also modified it for visual tests too.
http://soundlinuxtraining.com/resources/aplus/tests/vindex.html
Grant
Here is how I've been getting around it. Keep in mind these are practice tests and not used for a grade since they are javascript...
http://soundlinuxtraining.com/resources/aplus/tests/index.html
It's basically hacked up Hot Potatos javascript that gets the job done. I just insert all of my questions in the array in the .js file and I have a test. Not very elegent and doesn't keep track of the students progress is the format that I need.
I've also modified it for visual tests too.
http://soundlinuxtraining.com/resources/aplus/tests/vindex.html
Grant
In reply to Grant McWilliams
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Timothy Takemoto -
Grant
I like your tests. It would be great if these arrived in Moodle. I guess that the hot potatoes people are going to take notice of moodle soon.
With reference to one of your questions, by the way, as far as I know, if you put enough of a voltage accross pure water it will ionize it so that it conducts without the addition of minerals. But perhaps not. Perhaps my pure water had traces of minerals in it. The conductivity of pure water was the subject of my school physics project.
Tim
Timothy
In reply to Timothy Takemoto
Re: One question per page to discourage copying of the entire test
by Grant McWilliams -
I have students populating my glossary with about 1000 entries. They have one week to finish and I have a student that is extracting the javascript code from my tests and entering it into moodle. I will write a filter at some point to extract the array from hot potatoes and create moodle questions out of it but right now there is no time. Anything is possible if you have vision and an endless supply of free labor. 
Just look at the pyramids as proof of that!
Notice the format that my tests are in. This is what I need from moodle at some point. I created the first one with hot potatos way back but I haven't used their software since.. I just type in new arrays. I got Hot potatos to work on Linux too but it just wasn't worth the effort of having to use the interface.
As far as the water question, there may be a "more right" answer but they will need to know this one to pass the test as I have no control over how right the real test is.
Grant
Notice the format that my tests are in. This is what I need from moodle at some point. I created the first one with hot potatos way back but I haven't used their software since.. I just type in new arrays. I got Hot potatos to work on Linux too but it just wasn't worth the effort of having to use the interface.
As far as the water question, there may be a "more right" answer but they will need to know this one to pass the test as I have no control over how right the real test is.
Grant