Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
Number of replies: 89
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Hello!

I am glad to announce a modest proposal for advanced student-answer analysis in the short-answer type of questions in the Quiz (and Lesson*) modules. *Sorry for the double posting.

This proposal uses the so-called Regular Expressions system, powerfulsmile but complexthoughtful.

I have put on my test site all the necessary explanations, a few sample quizzes (and lessons) and, for anyone wanting to try it out on their own test site, the modified files for download.

Go to http://rezeau.info/moodle, log in as moodler, password moodler and select the Sandbox Course.

I am looking forward to people's comments and especially invite moodler developers in charge of this module to comment upon the feasibility of integrating my proposed changes to the current (or forthcoming) version of Moodle (subjected to further amendments). I do not have CVS permissions myself.

I will answer e-mails, but for the benefit of the Moodle community it would be better if exchanges about my proposal took place in this thread.

Enjoy!

Joseph

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Jean-Michel Védrine -
Thanks a lot for doing this Joseph,
I wanted to do that but never found the time. I will test and report.
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Gustav,
Any chance for my modest proposal to be taken into account in Moodle 1.6?
All the best,
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Gustav W Delius -
What I am working on is giving Moodle 1.6 a better question-type plug-in mechanism which works the same way as that for activity modules so that installing a custom question type is as easy as dropping the files in the right directories. That will make it easy for lots of users to test and use new or improved question types contributed by Moodle users like you and will eliminate the bottleneck that the quiz module maintainer (me sad) currently represents.
In reply to Gustav W Delius

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Dear Gustav,

Thank you for your reply. I guess I will have to be patientwink and wait for this new plug-in mechanism you are mentioning before re-submitting my proposal for 1.6.

I hope you will survive the bottleneck,

All the best, and thanks for your great work on the Quiz module,

Joseph

PS For other moodlers, I'm looking forward to more test reports on my test site, as mentioned in my initial post on this thread.

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Jeff Forssell -
I finally took the time for a second look. (I jumped at the chance the first time in spite of it being time to go home on Friday. It was SO MUCH what I was looking for)

This time I read the documentation. I really liked the reg. expression example generator. Regular expressions are so powerful but so easy to mess up. That could really help people who aren't programmers to get a feeling for it. ("There are 10 kinds of people, those that know binary and those that don't.smile")

I also found your thoughts about the flow etc. to be very good. I found the red background for the incorrect answer to be too strong (though not quite as bad as my choice of background color here!)

I'm so new to MOODLE and so thrilled by what I'm finding. Just probing the quiz opportunities and dabbling with other tempting stuff and checking out the forums and docs has kept me so busy. I'm not a server administrator, so I can't be fooling with the innards of our test server. And since our IT people are just starting to try out MOODLE I don't think they want to put in things that aren't even in the newest distribution. But that makes me hope it comes in the near future.

Any possibility to get a teacher login to your course (or a cut down copy) to try out the question-making interface?

Being a science/math man I would like to complement the numerical question type with a reg. expression (and evaluated expression) feedback possibility.
But I must say I didn't get what your example question "
Simplify this fraction: 4/10 (expected answer is 2/5)" was supposed to illustrate. (I was also puzzled by: "This quiz is made out of miscellanous, unrelated questions..." but I only see one question. Did I miss something?

I made some notes on the questions and answers I tried, but this doesn't seem like the place to put them.
In reply to Jeff Forssell

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Jeff > Any possibility to get a teacher login to your course (or a cut down copy) to try out the question-making interface?

In answer to your query, I am glad to announce that it is now possible to log into my test site as a teacher in order to experiment with the question-making interface.

Anyone interested just send me an e-mail (preferably stating your institution, etc.) to require a username and password and I will enrol you into the Sandbox course with (limited) teacher rights immediately.

Looking forward to intriguing and effective regexp formulae being devised by daredevil moodlers,cool

Joseph

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Josep M. Fontana -
Joseph,

This is so cool and it has so many possibilities!

Josep M.
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Anyone interested in testing the new regexp question type for Moodle 1.6 beta 3 is welcome to visit bug report #5129. Please make sure you have the Moodle version corresponding to the regexp version (a readme file is included in the archive). Please test on a test site only, at own risk. And please report bugs, etc. to me.

Enjoy!

Joseph

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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The Regular Expression Short Answer Question Type for Moodle 1.6 is now available for download in the Modules and Plugins database.

Looking forward to users' test reports.

Joseph

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by John Isner -
H Joseph,
I have two sites. One is Moodle 1.6.3 and the other is 1.6+. I want to add your regexp question type to both. I understand what to do with the new files, but what's the best way to merge your changes with the three existing files? Is there a CVS or diff command that I should use? If so, what's the command?

By the way, my 1.6.3 site is checked out under CVS and the other is not.

Merging manually (i.e., by looking carefully at your patch files and changing my files in just the right places) seems clumsy and error-prone. It would be bad enough for one site, but I have two.
In reply to John Isner

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi John,
I have indeed produced a DIFF file which our admin has successfully applied to install my regexp question type on our university Moodle site, which is currently using Moodle 1.6.3.
I am attaching it to this post. However, in order to apply it you have to be familiar with the patch command, for which I can't help you much, unfortunately.
All I can say is that on our university Moodle they use Unix commands, whereas on my local install (Windows XP) I use the GnuWin32 tools for building my DIFF files and applying the PATCH.
The patch programme for Windows can be found here.
Hope that helps,
Joseph
PS.- The enclosed DIFF file also modifies the /question/type/multianswer/questiontype.php file in order to make the new regexp question type available to the cloze/multianswer question type.
PPS.- Please use cautiously, and report.
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Deb Burdick-Hinton -
Hello Joseph-
Could not get into this test site. Sorry...a little late to the discussion but would love to see this in action if it is available. If not will try and see if I can get our Moodle Admin to download to a test 1.6 site.

Muchas Gracias for all your hard work!
In reply to Deb Burdick-Hinton

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hello Debra (and other Moodlers),

Sorry about the temporary unavailability of my Moodle test site, which I am in the process of upgrading to version 1.6. Today I'm off to Bordeaux to sit on a jury until the end of June. Will finish my upgrading etc. when I come back and will post the news in this thread.

All the best,

Joseph

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Philip Norton -
Hi Josep,

I have tried your site (it has been some time since June!) and I get an error message from what looks like your hosting company. Could you send me a copy of the code? I would be eternally grateful!

Sincerely,

Philip
In reply to Philip Norton

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Philip,

My Moodle test site has just been upgraded to 1.6+ and the URL is: http://rezeau.info/moodle/

You can log in to Course 101 as John Doe, with username moodler and password moodler.

If you want to experiment with the various plugins on my site, then send an e-mail and I'll let you have a teacher login for course Sandbox for teachers, on the same test site.

All the best,

Joseph

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Mathieu PLAS -
Does it work correctly with Moodle 1.7 ?
In reply to Mathieu PLAS

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hello Mathieu!

Since our university is not planning to install Moodle 1.7 before this summer, I have not quite finalized my regexp question type for 1.7. Unfortunately the rythm of new Moodle versions is too fast for me to catch up.

At the moment I am working on a number of improvements* for the regexp question type, which will be available in 1.6 and - hopefully - in 1.7. I will post a message on this forum when things are ready for downloading and testing on my test site. Probably not before some time in February.

Joseph

* including automatic generation of all alternative correct answers from the regexps so that teacher creating or editing a regexp question can immediately preview all the possibilities as well as check that the regexp syntax entered does work.
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Jeff Forssell -
OOPS
I just looked at 1.6+ and assumed that meant 1.7 would work. So I installed the files on my recently upgraded to 1.7 site. Not until I wasn't able to find one of the lines that was to be changed in the format css file did I check the discussion.

So Now I'm wondering if I should visit adminsistration to activate it or try to get rid of it ?!


I'm also wondering what would have happened in thias site which was 1.6 IF I already had RegExp when I upgraded to 1.7 (with Fantastico?) Any one know?
In reply to Jeff Forssell

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Jeff,

I have the REGEXP question type up and running on Moodle version 1.7 on my test site at http://rezeau.info/moodle where anyone can log in as user: moodler, password: moodler.

To be enrolled as teacher in the Demo course in order to experiment with creating REGEXP questions, anyone can send me a private message to get a username & password to that test site.

I am planning to put all the necessary files for the new version of the REGEXP question to work in 1.6 and 1.7 in the Moodle plugins by next week.

All the best,

Joseph

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Jeff Forssell -
I downloaded the RegExp1.7 version and installed it (on top of the 1.6 version that I never activated in Adm) on my 1.7 site. I did some editing according to the Read Me file, but some of the things there seemed to be already done (when I extracted the contents of the zipped file? Or did I really make those changes when I downloaded the 1.6 Reg exp version?)

Anyhow it seems to be working . I was able to export Reg Exp Questions from your site (as Moodle XML) and import them. But I noticed some tags about HaH_Hint or something like that and noticed that I don't see any option "Display Hint Button" for that on my site. Nor do I see the Show Alternative Answer button in the preview.

I also tried recreating the examples you described in connection with Certainty Based Grading and inviting student feedback. (I'm including the XML file if any one wants to try them).

Another strange thing is that in my installation when choosing a NEW question it says regexp and on your site it says regular expression short answer.

Do these things mean that I haven't finished the manual editing updates?

Could any of the problems be because I'm using a different theme than "standard white" or do all the edits there get inherited by other themes?
In reply to Jeff Forssell

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Jeff, here are some answers to your questions.

1- I'm not sure it was a good idea to install REGEXP 1.7 "over 1.6" in a Moodle 1.7 site. As explained in the readme files, you should really use the version of REGEXP corresponding to your Moodle version. Otherwise, I cannot guarantee that it will work.

2- "I don't see any option "Display Hint Button" for that on my site." I suppose you mean in the REGEXP question edit mode you don't see this option? This probably means that, after installing the REGEXP plugin you forgot to visit the Administration Notifications page, which will normally trigger the creation of the necessary "usehint" field in the mdl_question_regexp table. If you using phpMyAdmin, can you check that that table has these four fields: id, question, answers and usehint.

3- If you see [regexp] instead of Regular expression short answer, it means that you have not added this necessary line to the language file moodle/lang/en_utf8/quiz.php:
$string['regexp'] = 'Regular expression short answer';

4- The REGEXP question type should work with any theme.

5- If you cannot see the Show Alternative Answers button in the question preview window, probably this means something has gone wrong in the installation, but I do not know exactly what.

Hope that helps,

Joseph

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Mathieu PLAS -
Hi Joseph,
It seems that your regexp16 doesnt't work with the new 1.6.5+ version of moodle. I'll post the messages if you want.
I've not tested if the 1.7.2+ has the same problem with regexp17.
Mathieu
In reply to Mathieu PLAS

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Mathieu,
The problem of the update from 1.6.4 to 1.6.5 is not with REGEXP itself but with the Cloze (multianswer) question, which I have had to modify to make it compliant with REGEXP. If you do a CVS upgrade from 1.6.4 to 1.6.5, you will get a warning telling you that CVS has not been able to automatically merge the previous version of \question\type\multianswer\questiontype.php with the new one. I've just done the upgrade and this is what I get:
<<<<<<< questiontype.php
<?php // $Id: questiontype.php,v 1.7.2.8 2006/11/26 21:59:23 skodak Exp $
=======
<?php // $Id: questiontype.php,v 1.7.6.1 2007/03/25 14:49:59 moodler Exp $
>>>>>>> 1.7.6.1
I will try to produce a new version of my modified \question\type\multianswer\questiontype.php file compatible with Moodle 1.6.5 and post it here (and in the plugins area of Moodle).
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Philip Norton -
Hi Joseph,

I'm not sure if I've overlooked something: is there a plugin available for 1.8 yet? I am keen to upgrade my Moodle, but don't want to do this without a RegExp plugin smile

Sincerely,

Philip
In reply to Philip Norton

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Philip,
I'll have to do some checking on this, but there should not be much difference between the 1.7 and the 1.8 versions of the REGEXP plugin.
I'll keep you posted (and post a special 1.8 version on the Moodle plugins if needed).
Be patient.wink
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Philip Norton -
Thank you Joseph, again, for this amazing piece of work! I wait in anticipation smile
In reply to Philip Norton

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Done! Can be downloaded from the Modules & Plugins section, version 1.8.
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Maria B. -
No entries in database
In reply to Maria B.

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Well, it is there for me... Maybe it takes a little time for new versions posted there to get "approved" and be visible for all?
Joseph
Attachment image00.jpg
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Jeff Forssell -
I have just upgraded my Moodle to 1.8.2 . Last time I made the mistake of trying to install the wrong version. So I want to double check this time!

Now there is a "latest version" link too. Should I use the "1.8" or "latest"?
In reply to Jeff Forssell

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Jeff, please download "latest version" for use with your Moodle 1.8.2.
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Jeff Forssell -
You need guinea pigs? smile
In reply to Jeff Forssell

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Not really, it just means that latest version will work with 1.8.(2) and contains the latest code, whereas the version called 1.8 is not necessarily updated.
You should not find many changes. But please report in case of problems, as always,
Thanks
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Jeff Forssell -
There was another strange detail:
The file creation dates in the "latest" version were earlier than in the "1.8" version.

There are no "readme" instructions. (There used to be in the previous version.) I tried checking the 1.6 version but got:

Nous effectuons actuellement des travaux de maintenance sur ce site nous vous prions de bien vouloir renouveler votre visite ultérieurement

My massive ignorance of French shy only allows me to guess that it could be a transient condition because of work on the site.

At any rate I think it would be good to have a readme packed with the files (or possibly installation instructions on the documentation page. Or even better, put the documentation [including installation] into the Moodle Docs Wiki)

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Süreç Özcan -
Hi Joseph and other moodlers,
I am using Moodle 1.8.2+ and have downloaded latest version.
I put the extracted file "regexp" into path "*/moodle/question/type". I can see the new question type "regular expression short answer" in the "create new question" pull-down menu. I create a new question in the formular but after using the "save changes"-button I receive a message in a new page: "Could not insert quiz regexp options!".
Did I forget something?
In reply to Süreç Özcan

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Did you visit your moodle site front page, being logged in as Admin, in order to complete the installation of the new regexp plugin question type?
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Oleg Sychev -

We badly needed of general feedback functionality in Regular Expression Question. It's our institutuion policy to maintain general feedback for all questions.  Will it be implemented?

In reply to Oleg Sychev

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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The concept of general feedback goes against the concept of "appropriate detailed feedback" in the REGEXP question type. However, I may implement it if there is a demand. This will be for moodle 1.8 onward only (1.9, etc.). Which version are you using at the moment?
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Jean-Michel Védrine -
Hello Joseph, I understand quite well your concern about general feedback, however even if you allow it, just leaving the field empty should be enought for people not wanting to use it for it not been displayed isn't it ?
Maybe I looked to rapidly but just commenting or removing the line :
 $mform->removeElement('generalfeedback');
in the edit_regexp_form.php file should be all that is needed to add it back in your 1.8 version ? clin d’oeil

Please note this is just written looking at the sourcecode but not actually tested incertain
In reply to Jean-Michel Védrine

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Thanks Jean-Michel. This is just what has to be done to restore General Feedback. I hope Oleg will be able to customize his regexp question type this way. I will not add the General Feedback to the regexp question type for the moment, however, because, as I said, it goes totally against the concept of providing feedback which is based on the student's input. I still do not believe that General Feedback has any use here, and I want to keep the question edit interface as slick as possible...
Joseph
In reply to Jean-Michel Védrine

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Jean-Michel Védrine -
Just in case Oleg is using Moodle 1.7 here is a modified editquestion.html with general feedback added.
Joseph, maybe you can have a look at it because I think its coding is more compatible with the actual state of Moodle 1.8
To suppress display of the general feedback field, I was expecting that you would have to modify the line :
$QTYPES[$question->qtype]->print_question_form_start($question, array(), $course, $usehtmleditor);
To:
$QTYPES[$question->qtype]->print_question_form_start($question, array(), $course, $usehtmleditor, array('generalfeedback'));
But it is not working because question/type/editquestionstart.html is lacking the proper code to permit deactivation of the generalfeedback field.
I think I will post a request in the tracker because maybe you aren't the only questiontype author who want to deactivate generalfeedback.
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Oleg Sychev -

At the moment we use Moodle 1.8.2, upgrading recently from 1.6.4.

Our teachers use moodle in their classes and they must explain to the students their mistakes. It's well for learning, but it takes time. I quite understand value of General Feedback after first lesson, where I repeat similar explanations more than 15 times. General Feedback saves a lot of time for the teacher. Also, it work quite well for the training quizzes: even after very nonstandard mistake student can see what he must know to correctly answer on the lessons.

As for the dubious nature of General Feedback ... well, I think, sometimes it's better to tell the students how (and why) do things right, than detect and explain every possible way to do them wrong (after all, there can be far too much of them to do it in every single question - consider questions, which asks for a string on the programming language).  Anyway, I doesn't see the point of disabling a feature: these, who don't want it, may not use it, but it'll hurt those, who want it.

P.S. There are some other problems during upgrading. Question now complains for using in regular expression wildcard symbols like * or + (which where hardly used in our questions); what more - even students can see these complains and regular expression with them - this is security risk, for they can get an answer from it! Is there a way to disable expanding regexp feature for such questions, or otherwise continue to use wildcards? I don't want to interfere with you code because then I must edit it every time you upgrade you question.

P.P.S.  Thank you for the slick interface. It's much more usable (exluding deleted General Feedback), than interface of the standard question types. THANKS!Улыбка

In reply to Oleg Sychev

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Oleg > "There are some other problems during upgrading. Question now complains for using in regular expression wildcard symbols like * or + (which where hardly used in our questions); what more - even students can see these complains and regular expression with them - this is security risk, for they can get an answer from it! Is there a way to disable expanding regexp feature for such questions, or otherwise continue to use wildcards?"
Sorry, I do not understand your problem here... Which type of questions do you see wildcard problems in? the shortanswer questions or the REGEXP questions? Could you provide an example?
One more thing, the import/export mechanism has been changed in moodle 1.8.2, and consequently I've had to modify my REGEXP question type. Have you updated to the latest version? Do you use CVS for upgrading?
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Oleg Sychev -

The problem in Regular Expression question.

Here is typical regular expression (entered as the second answer, first is y = str[1][1];) :

[\s\t\n\r]*y[\s\t\n\r]*=[\s\t\n\r]*str11[\s\t\n\r]*;+[\s\t\n\r]*

Text below now included in the attempt before this question:

SORRY! Cannot generate sentences from a regExp containing one of these metacharacters: + * . { }
If you need to use one of them in your regExp as a LITERAL character, you must \'escape\' it.
EXAMPLE: The [bc]at sat on the ma[pt]\.

Wrong regExp = (%7Cs|%7Ct|%7Cn|%7Cr)*y(%7Cs|%7Ct|%7Cn|%7Cr)*=(%7Cs|%7Ct|%7Cn|%7Cr)*str%281|%29%281|%29(%7Cs|%7Ct|%7Cn|%7Cr)*;+(%7Cs|%7Ct|%7Cn|%7Cr)*

In Moodle 1.6. and corresponding version of Regular Expression Question all works well.

P.S. Some Moodle filter cripple regular expression in forum text. I'll attach screnshot.

Attachment regexp.JPG
In reply to Oleg Sychev

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Oleg,

If you would give me a few examples of the correct expected answers from your regular expression [\s\t\n\r]*y[\s\t\n\r]*=[\s\t\n\r]*str11[\s\t\n\r]*;+[\s\t\n\r]* I might be able to help.

For example, would you want to accept as correct:

  • y = str[1][1]
  • y = str[11]
  • y=str[1] [1]

etc.

Joseph

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Oleg Sychev -

No one of you examples is correct, but first and third will be if you add semicolon to them.

Correct answers for this question is line

y=str[1][1];

with any number of whitespace characters in all possible places (well, actually I shorten expression a bit, so in not all but in many places) and any number of semicolon characters in the end.

[\s\t\n\r] is a character class representing any whitespace character, line break and so on: we add + or * as quantificators for necessary or unnecessary spaces. Also semicolon has quantificator +. As far as I can tell, you new sentence generation system doesn't accept quantificators + and *. Maybe it will ignore such questions then, passing them to standard php regular expression check instead of error reporting?

Also, strings, sent in answer, take now strange mutations. The tail of the string (starting from first whitespace character, which isn't present in teacher's Answer 1) disappeared completely when grading question. For example, if I type  "y = str       [1][1];" for this question, on result page I get only "y = str" (Answer 1 is "y = str[1][1];"). The teacher can't check answer even manually.

In reply to Oleg Sychev

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Oleg,
Thanks for clarifying. There seems to be a bug in my REGEXP analysis system, related to the square brackets [ ]. I will see what I can do and keep you posted.
All the best,
Joseph
In reply to Oleg Sychev

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Oleg,
I have fixed the square brackets bug in REGEXP (should be downloadable from CVS latest very shortly). The following answers should do what you want: accept zero or one blank space between characters; please note that any extra blank space (more than one) will be automatically deleted from student's response. I do not see the point of accepting an unlimited number of semi colons (;) at the end of the expression.
Answer 1 : y=str[1][1];
Answer 2: y ?= ?str ??1? ??1? ?;
Note that space followed by ? means 0 or 1 space; note that the square brackets must be escaped, i.e. preceded by a backslash (unlike in Answer 1 which is not treated as a regular expression).
This will accept a grand total of 512 different responses:
y = str [ 1 ] [ 1 ] ;
y = str [ 1 ] [ 1 ];
y = str [ 1 ] [ 1] ;
y = str [ 1 ] [ 1];
y = str [ 1 ] [1 ] ;
y = str [ 1 ] [1 ];
y = str [ 1 ] [1] ;
y = str [ 1 ] [1];
y = str [ 1 ][ 1 ] ;
y = str [ 1 ][ 1 ];
y = str [ 1 ][ 1] ;
y = str [ 1 ][ 1];
y = str [ 1 ][1 ] ;
y = str [ 1 ][1 ];
y = str [ 1 ][1] ;
y = str [ 1 ][1];
y = str [ 1] [ 1 ] ;
y = str [ 1] [ 1 ];
etc.
It will also accept: y = str [ 1] [ 1 ] ; which will be automatically rewritten as y = str [ 1] [ 1 ] ;
etc.
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Oleg Sychev -

I install version, avaible from Modules database yesterday.

What type of regular expression syntax you use right now?  In first versions it was php syntax. New syntax with ? is a potentially well syntax, but now we must think how we can urgently upgrade more than 500 questions, developed with previous syntax. Thought I don't understand, why you change syntax of regular expressions? What you a trying to achieve? Maybe I can be of some help as a programmer?

Also, trying to use such questions, I find that "extra blank space (more than one) will be automatically deleted from student's response" isn't quite right. Any other symbols, following extra spaces, will be deleted too, which is quite disappointing.

In reply to Oleg Sychev

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Oleg,

I have not changed the regular expression syntax. The question mark is part of the classical regular expression syntax, it means "preceding character zero or one occurence". What I have changed between previous 1.6 version and 1.8 version is that I have added an optional Hint button, and also retained the begining of a partially correct student's reponse, to encourage the student to continue, rather than start from scratch when his response is not completely correct. All this is clearly explained, with examples, in the provided online help. Have you read it?

Probably one reason you are experiencing problems with my regexp question type is that you are using it to ask the student to type "strange" programing expressions with all kind of code, when I only intended it to be used for "ordinary language" responses, i.e. with words or short sentences.

>Also, trying to use such questions, I find that "extra blank space (more than one) will be automatically deleted from student's response" isn't quite right. Any other symbols, following extra spaces, will be deleted too, which is quite disappointing.

Can you give me examples of those "other symbols" which are deleted?

Joseph

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Oleg Sychev -

The problem with text disappearance apply only to the questions with old syntax ([\s\t\n\r]* for spaces). If I add a teacher's answer with ? syntax system, system will delete only unnecessary spaces (in the places where ? stood, other places unaffected). Anyway I think, that student's answer must remain same under all circumstances.

Consider previous example. Teacher's answers:

First:  y=str[1][1];

Second: [\s\t\n\r]*y[\s\t\n\r]*=[\s\t\n\r]*str11[\s\t\n\r]*;+[\s\t\n\r]*

If now I type "y =str[1][1];" for student answer, after submitting I get only "y" as an answer. If I type "y= str[1][1];" I get "y=" and so on. Any symbols after space, that was not considered in regular expression, will be deleted.

There is a problem in duplicating error: sometimes it print message "SORRY ...." to the students, sometimes not; also sometimes it delete trail of the answer, sometimes not. I failed to determine, why or under what circumstances. But in teacher preview mode it delete trail more often.

P.S. I'm completely confused. Are you drop support of + and * quantificators at all? Or is there some change in the syntax, that makes our "[\s\t\n\r]*" sequence invalid? In several other question there are no error message and question works fine.

In reply to Oleg Sychev

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hello Oleg,

Have you read carefully the (new) online help for the REGEXP question type?


For a number of reasons, the way of entering the very first Answer (Answer 1) in your list of answers has been changed. For Answer 1 you must now enter an answer text which a) is the "best" possible answer; b) is not a regular expression or - more exactly - will not be interpreted as a regular expression but "as is" and c) has a Grade value of 100%. This means that you may have to edit regexp questions created prior to Feb. 2007 if they do not obey these rules. You will notice that when you create a new regexp question the Grade value for Answer 1 is already automatically set at 100%. You must not change this. If, however, you did, a warning message would be issued when you save your question, allowing you the opportunity to go back and set things right. In Moodle 1.8+ you won't be able to save your question if you have accidentally changed the 100% grade for Answer 1 for another value (this should not happen).


> First: y=str[1][1];
> If now I type "y =str[1][1];" for student answer, after submitting I get only "y" as an answer.

The First answer (best possible answer) is expecting an exact match. It is expecting y=str[1][1]; so student enters y =str[1][1]; (with an extra space aftehr the y) of course this is "wrong". The system accepts the correct beginning, i.e. "y", and strikes out the rest of the student's answer.

If you want to accept as correct all the answers with all those characters and any number of blank spaces in between, then you'll have to add as Answer 2 a regular expression such as the following (I am attaching it as screen shot below because of formatting problems in the HTML editor that I noticed in my previous post).

Finally, because my new system now incorporates a Hint system which needs to be able to generate all acceptable answers (i.e. those with a score > 0%) from a regular expression, it is not possible to have inside regular expressions which lead to acceptable answers any wildcard characters (+ or *) because they would lead to an "infinite" number of possible acceptable answers.

The wildcards are only to be used in the detection of wrong answers (missing words, etc.).

I hope this explains everyting, and I am sorry is this means you have to re-write a number of previously created questions in the former version of REGEXP.

All the best,

Joseph

Attachment image00.jpg
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Oleg Sychev -

Hello, Joseph.

Yes, I read this and first answer isn't a regular expression.  Answer with space is wrong, but any other question display after grading full student answer (teacher may want to see it for one thing). The problem is that answer not only accepted as wrong, but wrong part of it deleted when anyone try to see the results of the attempt, so they will see only correct portion, not full answer. This misleads teacher, who sometimes want to see the answer and explain to student his mistakes.

Maybe you trim student's answer to give him possibility to continue expanding it? Then it must be done only if student can edit his answer (i.e. in adaptive mode), but final answer must not be trimmed.

P.S. There is possibility to limit the quantity of dysplayed possible answers even with + or *. Or (more simple way) maybe you can automatically disable you hint system for questions containing * or + quantificators (or give user an option to disable hint system)? Removing their support completely is a serious downgrade to regular expression syntax. ГрустныйГрустныйГрустный

In reply to Oleg Sychev

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Oleg,

>The problem is that answer not only accepted as wrong, but wrong part of it deleted when anyone try to see the results of the attempt, so they will see only correct portion, not full answer. This misleads teacher, who sometimes want to see the answer and explain to student his mistakes.

OK I understand this point of view.

>Maybe you trim student's answer to give him possibility to continue expanding it? Then it must be done only if student can edit his answer (i.e. in adaptive mode), but final answer must not be trimmed.

Yes, I should probably make the "automatic trimming" of the wrong part of the student's response only available in adaptive mode. Or make it an option when authoring the question, the same way that the Hint option functions now. Good idea.

>There is possibility to limit the quantity of dysplayed possible answers even with + or *. Or (more simple way) maybe you can automatically disable you hint system for questions containing * or + quantificators (or give user an option to disable hint system)? Removing their support completely is a serious downgrade to regular expression syntax.

I quite understand that you view my present system as a "downgrade" to "normal" regular expression syntax. However, I am not convinced that you can program an acceptable student answer by using the + or * meta-characters. This means you would be liable to accept a whole range of uncontrollable answers. But indeed as you suggest I could disable the checking system.

I am open to discussion (can you provide more examples if possible). In the meantime, you are perfectly allowed to modify the regexp system installed on your moodle site to suit your needs, if you like.

Joseph


In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Oleg Sychev -

As for + and * the main point is why you need all possible answers at all? It doesn't harm only questions with + and * quantificators, it harms any question with big number of variants. Even you schema with ? for zero on one spaces leads to hanging script in cases, where there are many ? or variants with (sdfds|sdfdf) syntax (more then 12-16) - I found this on actual production questions and sometimes it's a problem.

What you truly need, I think, is to check the partial correspondnence students answer with regexp (actually, you question is "which maximal part of the student's answer partially corresponds with regexp").

P.S. I the meantime I found bug with brackets. This regexp you system understand correctly: "ReadFile ?\(hPipe, ?void?\*?&std, ?sizeof(struct|)student, ?&bytesRead, ?(NULL|0)\);". But checking possible variants for "ReadFile ?\(hPipe, ?(void?\*?|)&std, ?sizeof(struct|)student, ?&bytesRead, ?(NULL|0)\);"  - i find possible such alternate answers: "ReadFile (hPipe, void *&std, sizeof(struct student), &bytesRead, NULL);" Brackets around "void *" disappeared from answer.

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Jeff Forssell -
(?) help text
I'm not sure that my regexp is the absolute latest (it would be good if there were version dates!). I think it would be good to have a link to the on-line Moodle Docs Wiki from there, not just to your original help pages. Another thing about escaping, I'll include the part of the (?) help text that I'm wondering about:

Escaping special characters

If you need to use (in your Answers) characters which are part of the regular expressions set of special characters, you need to "escape" them (i.e. precede them with a backslash). E.g. if you want to accept the answer "My computer cost 1000$", you must write the regular expression as "My computer cost 1000$". The special characters which must be escaped are the following .^$*()[]+?|{}

As I understand it, even / and \ should be there!

I also have some suggestions about the display of alternative answers:
Since the different CAPScommon alternatives are not shown, it would be good if the switch "/i" is shown (if it is there).

It would also be good (for those slow thinkers like me shy) that the number signifying the assigned grade would have a pop-up "This is the assigned grade for these alternatives where 1=100% 0.5 = 50%" on the number which means the assigned grade like here:

1

Well it worked while editing with <abbr title="This is the assigned grade for these alternatives where 1=100% 0.5 = 50%" >1</abbr> but disappeared when saving.black eye

In reply to Jeff Forssell

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Jeff,

I think it would be good to have a link to the on-line Moodle Docs Wiki from there, not just to your original help pages.

Yes, it would be good. I keep forgetting because I hardly ever look at the Moodle Docs myself.

The special characters which must be escaped are the following .^$*()[]+?|{} As I understand it, even / and \ should be there!

You are quite right, I must add those to the list.

Since the different CAPScommon alternatives are not shown, it would be good if the switch "/i" is shown (if it is there).

Well, it is shown : (ignore case)

Finally, the assigned grade for each alternative answer is shown in % (I changed this quite some time ago).

it would be good if there were version dates!

Version dates only change when there are major changes in a module, e.g. adding tables or fields to the database. Other than that the best way to check that you have the most recent release is to check the dates of the files in contrib. I am currently making some changes to make the regexp question type fully compatible with non-Latin characters (unicode). You can test the provisional version on my moodle test site, login as teacher1, password teacher1 or student1 password student1 go to course Demo, go to 1 Sample quizzes / Cyrillic alphabet. I will commit those changes to contrib after further testing (and will post the information here).

Joseph

Attachment image00.jpg
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Stefan Büchler -

 http://rezeau.info/moodle, log in as moodler, password moodler

I couldn't log in gemischt

In reply to Stefan Büchler

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators
Thanks for reporting. User moodler must have disappeared when I upgraded my test site from 1.7 to 1.8. It's OK now.
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Oleg Sychev -
I found easy to handle minor bug in regexp question: displaying answers you system doesn't protect them from HTML conversion. For example text &para becomes paragraph mark and so on. I attach a screenshot.
Attachment regexp_amp.JPG
In reply to Oleg Sychev

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Oleg,
I do use the paragraph mark somewhere in the Hint function of the regexp question, I think. But normally it should not be displayed at all on. This may be due to the language you are using or the character encoding or another "special" combination of characters in your question analysis. If you want me to analyse this, please "export to moodle XML" one or more regexp questions that you have created and where you notice this problem, send them to me directly (to the e-mail address in my profile) and I'll see what I can do.
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Mathieu PLAS -
Hi Joseph,
Where could I find your modified version of question/type/multianswer/questiontype.php ? I didn't find it anywhere yet...
I guess it's ready, I watched it running perfect diabolique on a platform...
Mathieu
In reply to Mathieu PLAS

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Mathieu,
I am attaching a version of question/type/multianswer/questiontype.php which should work with current moodle 1.8.3 version and give access to REGEXP question type within Cloze questions. Use with care.
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

questiontype.php replacement file for 1.9

by Ulrich Hauser-Ehninger -
Hi Joseph,

I tried this file on Moodle 1.9.1+ (Build: 20080625), but it leads to an empty screen. It is about 33k in comparison to the original questiontype.php of 74k in my version. Is there anything planned to make the regexp work under 1.9?

Yours, Ulrich
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Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Pierre,
No I don't think I would need to use those specific functions anywhere else. I will wait for your suggestions, thanks in advance,
Joseph
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Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Süreç Özcan -
So as far as I understood:
  1. If I use your two php-files I won't need "expandregexp.php"-file anymore?
  2. And now through your changes I will be able to have a "regexp"-question type next to my "so_regexp"-question type at the same time?
    1. will I have to delete the db-folder of my so_regexp question type just like I did while copying multichoice-question type?
    2. will I have to make a rename where ever I find the "regexp" to "so_regexp"? I am asking because I didn't rename all the strings (from "multichoice" to "so_multichoice" while copying the multichoice-question and still it works.
Thanks a lot,
Süreç
In reply to Süreç Özcan

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Süreç Özcan -
I have created a copy of regexp-question type and it seems to be working - yay smile
Therefor I would answer myself this way (please let me know if I am missing something):
to 1.: yes
to 2.1.: yes
to 2.2.: no, I made the renaming only for the important parts where it needs to

thanks a lot for your afford!
Süreç
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Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Süreç Özcan -
2.1:
YES if you use the same database table with the same parameters and there is a "standard" regexp already installed.
-> This is what I have at the moment.

Otherwise you will need to create a new database table(so need a db directory) and change the code accordingly. If so, you should create an install.xml file similar to those of regular question_type (i.e. numerical).
-> otherwise means that there is no "standard" regexp already installed. In this case would it not be possible to use the db-folder from "standard" regexp without any changes at all? And if someone also wants the "standard" regexp installed next to my so_regexp they would only need to delete the db-folder in the "standard" regexp!?

2.2:
For the strings, you can keep the original ones as the call is done to lang directory in the so_regexp directory.
-> do you really mean so_regexp or regexp? I thought I can keep the original ones because the call ist th the regexp-directory and not to my so_regexp one.

In a final version, you should rename the qtype_regexp.php to so_qtype_regexp.php and change the references in the so_regexp files(i.e question_type.php and edit_so_regexp_form.php).
-> As far as I have understood qtype_regexp.php needs to be renamed to qtype_so_regexp.php. When you talk about changing references are you talking only about the get_string parts whenever "qtype_regexp" is the folder the string comes from right? There shouldn't be any other references - at least as far as I have understood.

Süreç
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Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Süreç Özcan -
I have renamed all the functions copied from "expandregexp.php"-file and wherever they have been called in that class as well as the one call in "edit_regexp_form.php" where the function "check_my_parens" is called.
When I went back everything seems to be working - is there a trick to see if I have forgotten to rename a call or function?
In reply to Süreç Özcan

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Süreç Özcan -
I had made a renaming for "standard" regexp. Now having a copy of the "standard" regexp to my so_regexp would it be a better programming style to rename the functions again or does it not matter that there are two question types having the same function names since they don't have to do anything with each other?

Süreç
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Dirk Pfuhl -

Hi Joseph,

your regExpression-module seems to be quite the right thing I need, but I could not manage to use it within a lesson. Within the quiz-module it works fine, but I really want to use it for a question in a lesson-module. Is there any special thing to do during installation? I couldn't find any note in the readme-file or on your website.

In your documentation is written:

In teacher mode, create or modify a Lesson. Click on Add a Question Page here; select the Short Answer button and tick the Use Regular Expressions: button.

Unfurtunately there isn't those button.

I'm using moodle 1.8.

Many thanks for your suggestions!

Dirk

In reply to Dirk Pfuhl

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Dirk,

I originally created the REGEXP short-answer question type both for the Quiz and the Lesson module. The REGEXP question type was made part of Moodle core (as an option of the Short Answer question type) in 1.8. It will probably be part of Moodle core in forthcoming version 2.0 but a the moment it is a 3rd-party plugin. There is no relation between that plugin (for Quiz) and using the regular expression option for short answer in the Lesson module. I am surprised that you are not getting the Use Regular Expressions check box in the Lesson module using Moodle 1.8. It is there (see screen shot).

Joseph

PS.- Are you using Moodle in English or another language?

Attachment image00.jpg
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Dirk Pfuhl -
Hi Joseph,

thank you very much for your answer! As you can see in the screenshot attached, I just got a checkbox for case-sensitivity, no one for regular expression - bad luck!

Yes, I'm using moodle with german language.
Do you know how I can verify my moodle-version? That it's 1.8 is still what my provider says, I did not install it myself.

Greetings
Dirk
Attachment screenshot_shortanswer.jpg
In reply to Dirk Pfuhl

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Dirk,
If you switch to English you will see that in Short Answer you do get the Regular Expressions check box as shown in my previous message. The explanation is as follows: a) when the Regular Expression option was introduced, it replaced the former "uppercase/lowercase significant" option; b) unfortunately, this was never translated in the German language files for Moodle (nor was the Help file translated). If you tick that "Groß-/Kleinschreibung beachten:" box, you will see that in fact it gives you access to the Regular Expression option!
Joseph
You could try to contact the German translator for Moodle to mention this problem (through the Languages forum).
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Dirk Pfuhl -
Hi Joseph,
success! Just a little tick, and I got what I wanted!
Thank you very much for your help.

Greetings
Dirk

(I will post this at the languages forum)
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Carlos Sánchez Martín -

Dear Joseph,

Most comments on this forum are from 2006 to 2008, and I also visited  http://rezeau.info/moodle, which doesn't have the test course anymore. I downloaded both the quiz question type and the fix for cloze, but I couldn't make it work. For some reason, when I include the code "REGEXP" on Cloze or I use the RESA type, I get a browser error and it does not display anything. If I go back to my questions, the “just created” one is there, but when I preview it if fails to display.

Any ideas? I read on Moodle that your proposal is not going to be maintained, is because will be part of Moodle 2.0? Does anyone use it on Moodle 1.9.4+? 

Just in case, we run Windows Server 2003, IIS and MS SQL Server. 

Thank you for your time. 

Carlos

In reply to Carlos Sánchez Martín

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Hi Carlos,
I have answered your private e-mail. For anyone interested in the REGEXP question type, the plan is still to incorporate it in the standard version of Moodle 2.0, but this is more likely to happen in Moodle 2.1, in fact.
Joseph
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Thomas Zapf -

Hello Joseph,

we'd like to use the REGEXP question type in our bayernmoodle. A moodle for the schools in Bavaria. We are using ver. 1.9.9

The question type installs fine but it doesn't work as expected. Everytime I use the .* combination I get the following error:

"SORRY! Cannot generate sentences from a regExp containing one of these metacharacters: + * . { }"

Would be great if you could help us out.

Thomas

In reply to Thomas Zapf

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Joseph Rézeau -
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Further to private exchange with Thomas... Please remember that my REGEXP question type will not accept as correct or partially correct (i.e. non-null score) regular expression with "infinite" possibilities, i.e. including .* expressions.

Such .* expressions can only be used to detect incorrect answers, as explained in the online documentation.

Joseph

In reply to Thomas Zapf

Re: Proposal for advanced answer analysis in Short Answer Questions

by Oleg Sychev -

Thomas, if you are looking for * and + in regular expressions and could forsake Hint facility for a while (I hope it will be in a 2.0 version), you should try http://moodle.org/mod/data/view.php?d=13&rid=1901&filter=1 . To get stable 1.9 version use "Download for 1.9" link, to get experimental Hint facility for Moodle 2.0 use "Download latest version" link.

P.S. Joseph, you really could place this link near you error message, so the people could know where they could look for substitute if they want.