All improvements are not created equal

All improvements are not created equal

by Derek Chirnside -
Number of replies: 9

I've been pondering this for a while.  There are a lot of suggestions in the tracker, ie not the bugs.  Some are very personal suggestions.  Others are of much more general interest.  These are ones that give us a lot of productivity gains or a feeling of well-being and effectiveness when we see them come out in a new version.  Some of these are simple.  Some are rocket science and will be hard to implement.  

I've listed below a few of the very ordinary requests for enhancements.  They are not like badges, or bootstrap or editors.  They are simple nuts and bolts, bread and butter.

And here is my summary, just so you don't have to read until the end: I'd like to see some time given to a few more basic bread and butter (non-sexy) type of issues each release cycle.

The wish list.  When do you think we can get . . .

File management. Mainly deleting

I know it is official Moodle policy to encourage the use of repositories, but there are still times when there is a need to use the various file areas. Deleting is a one by one operation in many places that we often use:

  1. Bulk delete in legacy files: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-36008
  2. Bulk delete in User Private Backup Area: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-33671
  3. Bulk delete in Automated backup area:
  4. Bulk delete when editing a folder: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-36121

There are probably more.  Is it possible to get this sorted in all these areas with just one fix?

Image management

  1. Better image insertion into posts. Click and drag into the editor?
    Rationale: this is one of the most common things one does in a course with lots of interaction via forums. Tracker: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-40172 
  2. Ability to manage the resizing of images when uploading into the editor. 
    Rationale: people still don't get this!! https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-32183

Reports

There are a few basic extra reports that would be good. The problem of course is performance hits. "Give me a print our of the courses yet to be completed by our 23,000 students"
Here is one of the reports that have good justification for being in core:
SPAM accounts deletion help. Maybe "A member of no courses report" - tracker item: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-19190.  Yes I know there are other ways to skin this cat.

There are five or six more I'd like, but I decided they really were too idiosyncratic.

Quizzes

This is a complex issue.  Plugable questions and the new question engine are now humming along.  But from a functionality point of view, here are two things I think would give good bang for buck.

  1. Improved view to mark a test for a single student: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43310
    Rationale:  if you need to mark a quiz for one student, you need to click in and out of every question individually.  Could be improved.  
  2. Provide a way to ask a series of short free response questions with an associated quick marking page.
    Rationale: some answers are short but too complex to mark automatically, even with the OU AI smarts built in. You just want a bunch of short answers to mark manually.
    Tracker item: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-31581
  3. And a bonus random: I'd love a tweet question, 135 characters free response.

Forums in separate groups mode

I know this issue of forums is a complex issue.  One reason ordinary forums in groups mode can cause grief for teachers:

  • You have 27 groups. It is not possible to write ONE post in a basic forum in groups mode and have it in all groups and able to be replied to. https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-19670
    This has huge benefits for MOOC's.

Groups

No ability to self sign up.  (surely!!)  Good also for MOOCs.

Book

Why is ugly printing hard coded?

Afterword & Summary .  .  .

This is a personal view obviously.  I'm fully aware of the thread from a while back "One person's trivial is another man's critical?"  https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=180865 

I do know all the processes etc, and I know the 241 stock replies from $$, fix the user, code it yourself, $$, you're stupid to want this, employ a plugin, we are waiting for perfection, and blinding us with science etc.  Generally true attempts to respond I suspect.

I don't want to deny some progress has been made.  (Progress bars on upload, drag and drop, book in core . . etc etc) This post is created from a few bookmarks to tracker items and discussions I follow, half finished conversations, ignored posts and frustrations all over Moodle.org, and I reached only about half way down my list before I called a halt.  They often represent the final bit of a feature.  Files with a delete option missing.  Drag and drop great, but in a critical area.  Quizzes, great, but ever try to make a quiz for one person?

</ramble>  </rant>

In summary, I'd like to see some time given to a few more of these basic bread and butter (non-sexy) type of issues each release cycle.

-Derek
Average of ratings: Useful (4)
In reply to Derek Chirnside

Re: All improvements are not created equal

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

I though the No.1 answer was to get votes for the issue. The ones with high votes are supposed to get attention first. 

I honestly can't tell you if this works in practice or, indeed, the stuff that is interesting to developers or someone is willing to pay for get priority. Probably some combination of these.

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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: All improvements are not created equal

by Derek Chirnside -

@Howard.  Your list of "How this works" should also include back channel input from key Moodle Partners, after dinner drinks sessions at Moots, pressure from individual teachers on IT staff and Martin himself making a decision.

Sadly, many of the fixes I see as being very very beneficial to users actually are very small.  Firstly MP's have them done in their distros.  Next, good well organised IT departments just code them and tolerate the pain at upgrade time to remake the changes.  (I think this is the OU model).  Some individuals just do the coding to suit themselves and it's never quite good enough for Anthony to pass for the plugins database.  So no-one gets around to the fraught process of trying to get them into core.

I'm going to wait until the code freeze is on and ask:

  1. Could there be a little less Blue skies for the developer free time projects such as the Blockless nav project?  Could instead the dev special time go towards some projects selected off a list, which may be a little more prosaic . . .
  2. Could the GSOC be work on some projects that are a little more helpful to us plebs and still be learning for those involved . . . .

I'm aware of code freeze for 2.7 approaching.

And I think nothing on the list is being touched for the next version.  Sad.  So now I guess, look to 2.8.  Which makes a truth of the old proverb "Hope triumphing over experience"

@Tim.  "You have shown you know the only way to guarantee things get done"  This I don't understand.  smile There is no guaranteed way, surely??

-Derek

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In reply to Derek Chirnside

Re: All improvements are not created equal

by dawn alderson -

Derek, hi

very precise and to the point.  I can see your case here Derek.  The way I also see things is that the user's needs should really perhaps be page one at all times-which can often relate to the bread and butter layer and the other stuff following on from that.  And I am going to shamelessly plug.......the immediate need for drag and drop in atto. To me that is bread and butter stuff.

just my thoughts though.

D smile

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In reply to Derek Chirnside

Re: All improvements are not created equal

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

Acutally, the OU model is now (since Moodle 2.0) to make almost no changes to the Moodle core files. If we find a problem, we fix it, and submit the fix to the Moodle integration process. http://docs.moodle.org/dev/Process#Fixing_a_bug

Once the fix has been integrated, then we decide whether we need the fix urgently, in which case we will cherry-pick it, or if we can wait until we upgrade to the next 2.x.y release.

(We also have a lot of custom add-ons.)

The only way to guarantee something happens in an open source project is to do it yourself. (Or pay someone with the necessary skills to do it.) Doing it involves getting the change through the Moodle review process. In other words, you cannot irresponsibly change something to work the way you want if it makes it worse for other people.

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In reply to Derek Chirnside

Re: All improvements are not created equal

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

Limited words in essay is MDL-19655. Limited characters could be implemented at the same time.

As you say, there are logs of suggestions in the tracker. There is a job to hilight ones most worth of consideration. Just producing a good curated list like this increases the chance that these issues get attention.

You have shown you know the only way to guarantee things get done.

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In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: All improvements are not created equal

by Mary Cooch -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Good post Derek. I agree with all of those, although from personal experience I most favour the two image related ones and the groups in forums one. Anyway, I have voted.

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In reply to Derek Chirnside

Re: All improvements are not created equal

by Douglas Broad -

Derek,

I like your priorities.

Howard,

Votes would be OK but how easy is it to even find out what is being tracked as an improvement?  Things get hidden away.  We're too busy to go hunting through the tracker list.  The Autodesk Users Group International actively promotes an improvement process and solicits votes. 

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In reply to Douglas Broad

Re: All improvements are not created equal

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

The tracker is available for anybody to search. 

If you're too busy then you're too busy but what do you see as the alternative? Different people have different priorities. If you don't get involved then those that do will get what they want and/or MoodleHQ will just lead the way as they see fit. 

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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: All improvements are not created equal

by Derek Chirnside -

OK, a little Friday afternoon diversion here.  I've posted my suggestions to a guy (Cris Fuhrman) with students looking for projects here: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=256568#p1117443  very much a personal view.

@Howard, I've already had my say about once a year to Helen: my alternative is to have serious discussions in a forum which is carefully curated.  I imagine we'd emerge with maybe 30-70 threads for the critical issues that could sometimes encapsulate conversations about a cluster of tracker items.  If you look at the forums the Tracker is not a friendly place for regular users.  My experieince at a score of Moodle workshops confirms this.  But the current view is not to support this.

I think MoodleHQ already does lead the way as they see fit.  I'm not sure that votes are a big factor, given past movements.

-Derek

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