Comparisons and advocacy

With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?

 
 
Picture of Philippe Siwinski
With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?
 

Hello,

please imagine that a company that wants to train employees using only SCORM packages. Please don't elaborate on how poor eLearning it is, I know.

So if this company chooses Moodle 2.5+, it would only be used as a SCORM 1.2 launcher, right ?

Since it's time to jump on with Tin Can API, why would it need an LMS ?

If this company gets a Learning Record Store to collect and display its employees learning activities' data, why would it need Moodle for ?

Tin Can packages don't need an LMS, they can be uploaded anywhere and push information to the LRS, which can display collected data in a much better way than Moodle.

Please share your thoughts, it would be really helpful to understand all this better.

Thanks,
Philippe

 
Average of ratings: -
Gmads
Re: With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?
Group Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

 Hi Philippe,

As stated here: http://tincanapi.com/learning-record-store/, "the LRS is simply a repository for learning records that can be accessed by an LMS or a reporting tool", whereas an LMS like Moodle is a full application designed to fully manage users and eLearning content (e.g. roles, groups, activities, grades, tracking, etc.). That question then, would be like asking, "I have DropBox or GoogleDrive, why do I need Moodle then?"

 

--- References about Moodle & Tin Can API

https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=233707
https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-35433

 
Average of ratings:Useful (1)
Picture of Marcus Green
Re: With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

I am curious as to why you would think that a forum dedicated to a VLE that allows people to deliver elearning would jump on you about how poor elearning is?  Note that the TinCan API appears to be at version 1.0 so you would be an early adopter.

 
Average of ratings: -
Picture of Philippe Siwinski
Re: With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?
 

Hi Marcus, Moodle suggests (while not imposing) a social constructionist way of learning.

Using Moodle just to host SCORM packages is in my opinion a very poor usage of Moodle.

Imagine a new organisation starting with eLearning in early 2014. They will use tablets and develop Storyline modules. Starting now leads to Tin Can... Using apps on ipad but stick to SCORM 1.2 just because Moodle SCORM player is currently limited doesn't make much sense right ?

Would you suggest to stick to SCORM 1.2 for now ?

 
Average of ratings: -
moi!!! it is what is is...
Re: With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?
Group Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Hi Phillippe, for me, and we have been doing some serious testing :

They will use tablets...

...is going to be a bigger issue for you than your LMS environment, I suggest. We have been testing tablets, the major retail one who may not remain fruitful now its lead identity has departed, and we are finding there are a number of serious shortcomings with them when used for learning. No keyboards (and the Bluetooth adapted keyboards are another expense), or mouse/touchpad, are being noticed as problems. On-screen keyboards take up too much screen real estate and slow production. We have basically found that using it for more than small game playing and emails is just not practicable. We are actually having more success with the latest toy, the chromebook, the one with the solid state drive. Battery life is good, flip-top screen with keyboard and touchpad. It also has external connectors, something that the tablets do not. I really do not want to get into the 3G argument, but that has been an issue with circumventing some security and duty of care protocols in high school and a consideration for us as well. Essentially we have found the usefulness of the tablet just does not live up to its hype. 

 
Average of ratings:Useful (4)
Picture of Philippe Siwinski
Re: With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?
 

Hola Guillermo,

thanks for your time.

I expect a LRS to display reports about the data it stores.... Look at Wax LRS.

So if I remove from Moodle grades, tracking and reporting because all this would happen in a LRS, I just have roles, groups, authentification and enrolment (for an organisation just using Moodle to launch SCORM packages).

I would be better off using Wordpress LMS that only supports Tin Can statements for user and permission management, host packages and connect it to a LRS for tracking and reporting.

I'm familiar with the references you mentioned and it's what let me think that I would not need Moodle before it supports Tin Can.

The Moodle Launch plugin make us host Tin Can packages outside Moodle.

Imagine you can launch Tin Can activities from DropBox or GoogleDrive (let's say that we manage well who can access to what) and that tracking and reporting is handled by the LRS. Why do I need Moodle then ? Am I correct ?

My point is that if we don't need the learning tools offered by Moodle but just its user and permissions management features, why to use Moodle ?

Thanks for helping me to understand this.

 
Average of ratings: -
Gmads
Re: With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?
Group Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

Hi Philippe,

Ok, I see. I'm not an expert about SCORM, but I think I would agree with you; yes, if the client needs only basic authentication and everything is delivered as a SCO or will be delivered in a Tin Can, I would then certainly not bother with Moodle.

As a solution provider one must find and use the best tool according with the client's needs. How many sites, for example, have installed Moodle only to have courses composed only of PDF documents? I would rather password protect a directory and put all the files in there; so instead of having a full web application and everything that goes with it, in just a few minutes I would have provided a more than adequate solution, given the client's needs.

Anyway, the beauty of all is that whatever is decided, it will not be set on stone, you can go from one solution to another without mayor problems.

 
Average of ratings:Useful (1)
Picture of Marcus Green
Re: With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

The problem with that solution Guillermo is then they wouldn't have a virtual learning environment and for many organisations the most significant benefit of having a VLE is that they have a VLE  and they can tell people they have a VLE because a VLE is a good thing (tm).

<grins>

Marcus

 

 

 

 
Average of ratings: -
Gmads
Re: With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?
Group Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

LOL, yes Marcus, you're right about that! The marketing factor smile

 
Average of ratings: -
Paul
Re: With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?
 

Not Only Guillermo. wink We as a University are looking at moving away from your approach since students accountability is a huge issue. We need to know who has downloaded what and when. On top of that, for those more experienced users/designers, we can create very attractive courses, and add far more detail than is contained in the pdf alone. Many, many good reasons to use a VLE rather than a directory.

 
Average of ratings:Useful (2)
Gmads
Re: With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?
Group Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

Hello Paul,

I agree completely about the benefits of having and using an LMS. What I said was in regard to the requirements expressed by Philippe:

So if I remove from Moodle grades, tracking and reporting because all this would happen in a LRS, I just have roles, groups, authentification and enrolment (for an organisation just using Moodle to launch SCORM packages).

I don't vouch for one solution or another, I just support the concept that one, as a solution provider, must find the best option according to the client's requirements, whether that is a simple password-protected directory, a straightforward site, a forum web app, a collaboration environment like GoogleDrive, an LMS or anything else. For example, regarding the "we need to know who has downloaded what and when", the web server logs offer far better (more detailed) reports; and about the "we can create very attractive courses, and add far more detail", a simple classic web site could be created with pages consisting of engaging, good-looking SCORM modules. By saying this I'm not trying to be controversial nor trying to demerit the benefits of having the VLE, I'm just showing that there always other options (even if they are not necessarily the best) and that for some people those might be just right smile

 
Average of ratings: -
Picture of Pankaj Agrawal
Re: With Tin Can, do I still need Moodle ?
 

Philippe,

I agree with your thought. It actually depends on the complexity of your requirements. If you want complicated grading mechanisms, I believe there are still very little options outside complicated LMSes like Moodle. 

If the requirements are comparatively simple or if you plan to use Tin Can as it is today. I believe there are simple to use options available. You could also look at some amazing tools that work along with WordPress like GrassBlade xAPI Companion and LearnDash. And  GrassBlade LRS an LRS installable on any PHP/MySQL server.

- Pankaj

 
Average of ratings: -