I know the current interface for creating/assigning groups is a little
wierd - I'm not happy with it either. It's very easy to say it should be
improved, but how could it be done better? Note I'm not talking about new features, just usability in the interface.
Mockups in HTML and screenshots most welcome.
A quick suggestion (without mock ups and screenshots, I'm afraid),
remove access to the group editing function from within the Groups area
in the People Block. Instead add a Groups icon to the Administration
block to access this functionality.
In this way the People Block options will display the appropriate information about erm... people in the way it does when not in editing Groups mode and the Groups icon in the Admin block would lead to the functionality for adding and subtracting folk in the same (or similar) way as displayed when the Teachers & Students icons are clicked.
Doesn't solve the interface issue but would make gaining access to the Groups editing stuff more intuitive.
In this way the People Block options will display the appropriate information about erm... people in the way it does when not in editing Groups mode and the Groups icon in the Admin block would lead to the functionality for adding and subtracting folk in the same (or similar) way as displayed when the Teachers & Students icons are clicked.
Doesn't solve the interface issue but would make gaining access to the Groups editing stuff more intuitive.
Rather than separating groups view/editing (because most of Moodle combines the two), how about going the other way to consistency and making the teachers and students editing screen available from the participants pages ...? More than once I've needed to do that.
Seems OK on the face of it. 
I wonder how often the People block is not displayed in courses - if this was the only way to access the editing areas this could make the process of managing people more onerous that it perhaps should be.
I wonder how often the People block is not displayed in courses - if this was the only way to access the editing areas this could make the process of managing people more onerous that it perhaps should be.
Yes, I can see both sides ... perhaps keep them all seperate as you suggest, but just include editing links between the two.
On the people / participants note - I always click on the wrong one! A link between the two would be useful but I think students is a bit misleading and the people block a bit unnecessary. How about:
I have renamed student to enrolment and called participant student list. I propose loosing edit profile as, IMHE, students find this out first (by clicking their name then edit profile) and it is not a frequent tasks which needs to be so prominent.
I thought about check boxes for groups like the MyFiles interface so I will post a mock up of that later if I get time.
I have renamed student to enrolment and called participant student list. I propose loosing edit profile as, IMHE, students find this out first (by clicking their name then edit profile) and it is not a frequent tasks which needs to be so prominent.
I thought about check boxes for groups like the MyFiles interface so I will post a mock up of that later if I get time.
OK, I think I have improved the group interface based upon the same functionality, simpler interface and based around the way I use groups 
Firstly, the best way I would find working with groups is for the group to be able to follow the user from course to course but this is a discussion which is going on in the general developers forum here
Ok, the first box allows you to see all, those not in a group and then only those of a particular group. The rationale behind this is you probably don't want a really long list - you probably just want to add those not in a group to a group most of the time. The second box is obvious.
Next, I thought it would be better to make take the names out of the box and use check boxes. I have on too many occasions 'missed' when I have been doing a ctrl+click and lost all of my selection.
There is now no need for a view profile button. The student name could be a hyperlink which would launch the user profile in another window if you like. Likewise for the group name (click launches group profile which you can then edit). Others may want more functionality for the group profile details but I never use them. Also, if you do I would imagine you only use it once or twice so it makes sense to keep it out of the main interface.
The only thing I have missed off is remove group I think.
Discuss
Firstly, the best way I would find working with groups is for the group to be able to follow the user from course to course but this is a discussion which is going on in the general developers forum here
Ok, the first box allows you to see all, those not in a group and then only those of a particular group. The rationale behind this is you probably don't want a really long list - you probably just want to add those not in a group to a group most of the time. The second box is obvious.
Next, I thought it would be better to make take the names out of the box and use check boxes. I have on too many occasions 'missed' when I have been doing a ctrl+click and lost all of my selection.
There is now no need for a view profile button. The student name could be a hyperlink which would launch the user profile in another window if you like. Likewise for the group name (click launches group profile which you can then edit). Others may want more functionality for the group profile details but I never use them
. Also, if you do I would imagine you only use it once or twice so it makes sense to keep it out of the main interface.The only thing I have missed off is remove group I think.
Discuss
Just a quick note because I'm in a rush, but remember the interface should support up to 5000 users in the class.
That's easily done. In fact, the problem has already been solved in the users section on the front page. Have a look at the footer on this image for additions:
I envisage the search for new enrollments button returning a screen very similar to above except no groups would be indicated next to the names as the results would be users not in the current course (obviously!)
When you ticked the box and added them to a group they would be enrolled on the course also (obviously!)
2 birds with 1 stone
I envisage the search for new enrollments button returning a screen very similar to above except no groups would be indicated next to the names as the results would be users not in the current course (obviously!)
When you ticked the box and added them to a group they would be enrolled on the course also (obviously!)
2 birds with 1 stone
Keep going!
Actually, this part of the interface is not that part I didn't like.
The current three pane interface could use a few minor improvements to allow searching and sorting but it's not that bad, is it?
(On a side note I have just added the capability to add a person to MORE than one group in 1.5)
The problem I saw was the other three screens
and how all these relate together ...
Actually, this part of the interface is not that part I didn't like.
(On a side note I have just added the capability to add a person to MORE than one group in 1.5)
The problem I saw was the other three screens
- the non-editing interface that lists all the groups
- the non-editing interface that lists one group in detail
- the editing interface for a single group
and how all these relate together ...
The "person to MORE than one group" feature will be very useful when using groups for course cohorts where teachers teach more than one class cohort/group. Thank you.
Timothy
Timothy
I need to renege on this. I did in fact write about 80% of the code for it on the plane coming back from New Zealand, but then started running into all sorts of unforseen problems the job started looking something that would probably create a lot of new and difficult to track down bugs (I have enough already!) ... so I'm leaving this out for now, sorry.
On the upside the interface for the current groups interface is much improved and integrated better with the participants page.
On the upside the interface for the current groups interface is much improved and integrated better with the participants page.
Dear Martin,
Do you plan to leave out the Groups Interface Resdesign, or on the possibility of having teachers assigned to more than one group, or both? The latter is mainly taken up in the thread below. I am very happy with the current interface (accept in so far as it does not allow multiple group enrolment). But the ability to allow teachers to join more than one group, would enable the groups feature to allow for multiple class cohorts, where some teachers teach in more than one class.
Theoretically I could try and get teachers to sign in using more than one user name but I think that the IMAP passwords are bureacratically limited to one per person. I could allow teachers to see all groups by making them administrators, perhaps, but that would create unacceptable privacy issues.
Timothy
More than one group per person will not be in 1.5, but an interface revamp is in 1.5 (ie groups have the same functionality as 1.4, it's just cleaner now with fewer pages). Groups are now browseable within the main participants page. (example)
Hopefully we can tackle the multiple groups thing for 1.6.
Hopefully we can tackle the multiple groups thing for 1.6.
Excuseme Mr Martin, but the page http://test.moodle.com/user/index.php?id=5
is only accesible under payment.
Is not free the access to the develoment place?
is only accesible under payment.
Is not free the access to the develoment place?
Hi Martin,
Thanks for adding the membership to more than one group. I am eager to see this new feature working. I have tested 1.5dev downloaded today (v2005020800) but I see only the classical only-one-group behavior.
Do you mean CVS?, when a zip will be available?
I will check the pages you suggest
- Enrique -
Hmmmm. More than one group. . Just to plant some seeds in your brain, it would be nice if kids could create their own groups and then their friends/peers enroll. This would take the strain off teachers/admins when group work is being set up. The kids could take ownership of this themselves (with a teacher monitoring the situation)
Also, just to plant more seeds, this could lead to students setting up a MyFriends group in course 0 (MyMoodle) where they could have there own forums and activities for their mates
The current three pane interface could use a few minor improvements to allow searching and sorting but it's not that bad, is it?
It's not that bad, no. The problem I have with it is the scrolling within a little box, the ctrl+click and it's not scalable. The more people in a course you have the more difficult it becomes and let's face it, this is a task you will mainly only so once when the course first starts so that bulk selection is important. I feel my solution contains the same features in a simpler, clearer interface
As for the non-editing interface then this is not one I use. I set up the groups then after that I only worry about them in the course themselves. Perhaps I should take group photos and add a description but nobody and this is a nice option to have in there but not a priority for me.
. Just to plant some seeds in your brain, it would be nice if kids could create their own groups and then their friends/peers enroll. This would take the strain off teachers/admins when group work is being set up. The kids could take ownership of this themselves (with a teacher monitoring the situation)Also, just to plant more seeds, this could lead to students setting up a MyFriends group in course 0 (MyMoodle) where they could have there own forums and activities for their mates
The current three pane interface could use a few minor improvements to allow searching and sorting but it's not that bad, is it?
It's not that bad, no. The problem I have with it is the scrolling within a little box, the ctrl+click and it's not scalable. The more people in a course you have the more difficult it becomes and let's face it, this is a task you will mainly only so once when the course first starts so that bulk selection is important. I feel my solution contains the same features in a simpler, clearer interface
As for the non-editing interface then this is not one I use. I set up the groups then after that I only worry about them in the course themselves. Perhaps I should take group photos and add a description but nobody and this is a nice option to have in there but not a priority for me.
Re: adding the capability of having people in more than one group--Yay! This will make interaction between my classes MUCH easier and improve my options for creating higher level forums for my more advanced students. THANK YOU.
(On a side note I have just added the capability to add a person to MORE than one group in 1.5)
This is great! If this were to be combined with John Ryan's new hack for restricting activities to specific groups, I am going to be able to much more easily manage my course enrollments.
(On a side note I have just added the capability to add a person to MORE than one group in 1.5)
Has this change any effect on the plans for more finely grained roles and rights? (Re: the November 2004 draft on Moodle.com.) I haven't seen any reference to those in "roadmaps" for 1.5 or 1.6 and with this new development effort going into the old groups feature, I'm wondering what is the current plan on this front.
Jussi
Has this change any effect on the plans for more finely grained roles and rights? (Re: the November 2004 draft on Moodle.com.) I haven't seen any reference to those in "roadmaps" for 1.5 or 1.6 and with this new development effort going into the old groups feature, I'm wondering what is the current plan on this front.
Jussi
It's not really related, they are two different things (you can have groups of people in different roles).
I see a lot of really good ideas here. I'm very new at this and don't understand the program side much at all. However, this is what I need my groups to be able to do:
1. They need a place to communicate within their own group.
2. They need the ability to view other groups postings and comment.
Currently, I am dealing with a small number of adults so my needs will vary from those dealing with larger numbers.
The ideas Darren Smith visualized are very user friendly.
Thanks for the support, Deborah .
As for your point 1. Have you looked at setting up a forum that is set to seperate groups. This means (I think) that posts made to that foum can only be seen by others within that same group. In fact, that may deal with you second point also.
If not, could you provide a little more information as to your exact requirements please.
Happy Moodling!
.As for your point 1. Have you looked at setting up a forum that is set to seperate groups. This means (I think) that posts made to that foum can only be seen by others within that same group. In fact, that may deal with you second point also.
If not, could you provide a little more information as to your exact requirements please.
Happy Moodling!
A "new groups interface" question.
While rewriting the dutch manual for moodle 1.5, I can't find the overview page with groups, groupmembers, groupdescription (and even a group picture) anymore.
You could access the page by clicking on 'groups' in the participants block.
The possibility to enter this information is still available on the edit groups interface...
While rewriting the dutch manual for moodle 1.5, I can't find the overview page with groups, groupmembers, groupdescription (and even a group picture) anymore.
You could access the page by clicking on 'groups' in the participants block.
The possibility to enter this information is still available on the edit groups interface...
It's actually in the participants page now (there is a groups menu in the upper-left)
Thanks Martin (it's well hidden if I may say so 
, but then I should come up with a suggestion... )
I am not sure if this has been mentioned, but sub-groups would be a great step.
Often in our classroomswe have grouped tasks and having the ability to move students into smaller groups would be great for this.
But rather than just creating new groups, making sub-groups would assist because:
- a sub-group would still work with their own heirachy. i.e.
- a student must be part of a clasgroup to be able to join a taskgroup
- taskgroup1 can stil participate in and view class1 forums and discussions
- teachers can still look at all assignments/tasks of taskgroups from the class1 views.
- students in taskgroups cannot see what others taskgroups are duing by default. Imagine settings for sub-groups similar to what we have now (seperate, visible, etc)
- taskgroups can be easily created and disolved on the fly depending on the current need while not impacting on classgroups
- Teachers can view individual students work within taskgroups to assess teamwork.
I hope I have expressed myself well. I have attached an image to show an example of the above mentioned structure.
Questions I have are:
- would anyone apart from me find this usefull?
- would sub-groups be set up per activity or through the existing group structure
The ability to define groups per activity is now slated for Moodle 2.0.
Why not in 1.6. or 1.7? Since it seems to be one of the most requested features.
Will the ability to define groups per activity enable instructors to form sub-groups within an existing group as defined by Julian Ridden above? We are using wikis as a small group activity within a course that is already using the groups feature because the course is being used by sections or cohorts for other activities like the forums.