Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by Davo Smith -
Number of replies: 17
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
Having played around with the 'local files' browser for a bit, I was wanting to suggest a few tweaks that, I think, would make it a little simpler and easier to use.

The current file hierarchy looks something like this:
  • Course Introduction
  • Course section summaries (subfolders for each)
  • Section backups (subfolders for each)
  • Course backups
  • Course files
  • An assignment
    • Activity backup
    • Description
      • Assignment instructions.pdf
    • Submission (for users that are able to submit files)
      • 1st submitted file.doc
      • 2nd submitted file.jpg
  • A forum
    • Activity backup
    • Description
  • A resource
    • Activity backup
    • Description
      • description image.jpg
    • Files and subfolders
      • a picture to look at.png
I wondered if it should be altered to look more like this:
  • Course Introduction
  • Course section summaries (subfolders for each)
  • Section backups (subfolders for each)
  • Course backups
  • Activity backups
    • An assignment
    • A forum
    • A resource
  • Course files
  • An assignment
    • Description
      • Assignment instructions.pdf
    • 1st submitted file.doc
    • 2nd submitted file.jpg
  • A forum
    • Description
  • A resource
    • Description
      • description image.jpg
    • a picture to look at.png
The changes made to the above are as follows:
  1. Remove the activity backups from each individual activity and place them all in a folder called 'Activity backups', stored at the top level of the course. The reason for suggesting this is that it makes the activity backups easy to find, when the user is looking for them, but prevents them from cluttering up the browser when you are not looking for them (95% of the time).
  2. Move the most relevant files for any given activity out of a subfolder and directly into the root folder for that activity (in the example above, it would be 'submitted files' for an assignment, or the main file contained by a resource, for a 'file resource'). Again, this is about anticipating what the user is most likely to be looking for when they click on the link to a particular activity in the file browser. Any subfolders for that activity's main files could be stored off the root of that activity as well. There is some potential for a name clash with this (if someone uploaded a resource, with a subfolder called 'Description', for example), but I don't think that would break anything, with regards to the code, and it should hopefully only cause confusion in a few very rare cases.
  3. Hide the 'Description' folder when there are no files attached to the description. This would require an extra database lookup, at the time when the user opens up the activity in the file browser, but I'd have though this was more than offset by the time saved by not having the user click on the link accidentally, only to find there are no files in it.
A brief glance through the filebrowser code has suggested to me that the above are all possible without an impractical amount of effort (although some of them may require a bit of careful handling of context ids).

What does anyone else think?
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In reply to Davo Smith

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by Helen Foster -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators
Davo, thanks for your thoughts. approve

I agree that it would make more sense for activity backups to be removed from each individual activity, but wondered whether it would be simpler to have a folder called Backups with Course backups, Activity backups and Section backups as subfolders?

I've added a link to this discussion thread in the tracker issue 'META: Improve usability of new files structure for Moodle 1.9 users who want "Course files" back' MDL-23306 so hopefully more people will give their opinions.
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In reply to Davo Smith

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by Elena Ivanova -
I agree!

I would actually get rid of almost all sub-folders and would store all files associated with the activity just there. Ideally, I would just get rid of as many folders as possible

Thus instead of:
  • Resource 1
    • Activity backup
      • Resource1_Backup.zip
    • Description
      • Image.png
      • Word2.doc
    • Files and subfolders
      • 19Scr-Jun.-16-06.43.png
I would suggest this, since I do not really see why we need to put backups or description items into separate sub-folders (or if we can indeed hide subfolders if they are empty):
  • Resource 1
    • Resource1_Backup .zip
    • Image.png
    • Word2.doc
    • 19Scr-Jun.-16-06.43.png


Also in here:
  • Course introduction – can please someone tell what is this? Is this Course Summary from Edit Settings?
  • Course section summaries
    • 0
      • Image.gif
    • 1
  • Section backups – How one would backup a section? I cannot find any functionality that would allow me to do that.
    • 1 – Are we missing 0 here?
      • Section1_backup.zip
    • 2
  • Course backups

I would probably do:
  • Course Summary
  • Course Sections
    • 0
      • Image.gif
      • Section0_backup.zip
    • 1
  • Course backups

One other thing that is confusing to me is inability to review files submitted by students in this screen. In 1.9 I could go to Files, dig out the moddata folder and review their files there. Was this feature eliminated?


Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Davo Smith

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by Elena Ivanova -
some more...

To help locating your files in the course, in case you add them to the activities directly, we can change our current pre-review page of them. (For the lack of the better term, can we call this area Activity-level Files, in contrast to “Local Course Repository”/”Legacy course files”?

Right now it is hard to find (one can click on Legacy Course Files link, then from there click on the Course name in the second row of breadcrumbs)

Then instructor will see this

Notice that on this page the first row of breadcrumbs still says “legacy course files”. This needs to be removed, since this is not where we are anymore. We are in the preview screen of activity-level files.
And “Moodle features demo” in the second row, also need to be renamed to say that we are looking at files, not at the course homepage.

I think direct link to this preview screen needs to be placed to the course Settings block.

We would want to add Search and may be Tag functionality here, as suggested previously.
Plus, an option to expand everything. And ability to bulk-select and download all of those files locally in the zipped format smile And hopefully files only, without the tree of all of those sub-folders that we now have.
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In reply to Elena Ivanova

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
Elena, I think you are really not getting how things are supposed to work in Moodle 2.0.

Let me ask you to consider this analogous situation. Suppose you are just sitting at your computer at home making a word document, and you want to insert an image. Do you:
a) start opening all the other word documents on your computer to find the image, because you think you have used it somewhere else before; or
b) load the picture from the My pictures folder, (or wherever it is you keep your image files)?

I assume the answer is b) and that is how Moodle 2.0 is designed to be used.

However, when I look at it, the default configuration of the file-picker is a horrible user-interface-design disaster. The default, after an install, is
I suggest that should be more like
  • Upload a file
  • Recently accessed files
  • My private files
  • All files on this server
Note that 'My private files' can be managed through your user profile page. This is what you should use if you want to upload a lot of files by uploading a zip, unzipping it, and then using those files to create content in Moodle. (When you are looking at My private files, there should be a note visible telling you that to add files here, you should go to your user profile. In particular, the current 'Empty list' message should be made much more helpful.

And note that in a typical university, where the administrator has set up integration with some other institutional repositories, the file picker UI might look more like:
  • Upload a file
  • OU course material archive
  • OU image library
  • OU official policy documents
  • Recently accessed files
  • My private files
  • All files on this server
(In other words, the system is designed to do exactly what lawrence li is asking for below.)
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In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by Elena Ivanova -
Hi Tim,
Are you referring to the discussion that we have in Usability forum?
I actually do think that I am getting it.
But in your example, I am the only one who will be building a course site.
All of our courses have either multiple designers who work collaboratively on one course site, and/or support personnel who need to be able to troubleshoot.
Thus, they need to have an option to see "All files in this course" and be able to manage (load, delete, zip) them from one location.
Yes, users can be forced to create and maintain outside repositories, and then integrate into Moodle.This will also make a life of people who collaborate and of support personnel much harder, since now they will have to support, maintain and troubleshoot issues in 2 systems.

Also, as I have mentioned in another forum, if I will bring and unzip bunch of files and associate them with Resource#1, then I will actually have to do scenario A from your own example, if I would ever want to provide a link to just one of those unzipped files via Resource #2 (I will have to dig through existing moodle resources to find that file. Since we d not yet have a tag, search, etc functionality)

Basically, your scenario assumes that instructors will be adding their documents only one-by-one, on the as-needed basis. This is not true in all situations, since people have pre-built materials, and they load them ahead of time.

Robert said that 1.9 course files can be reimplemented as a block. That would be great.

Back to the file-picker. I agree that it needs to be re-organized, though I was not talking about the file-picker above, I was actually talking about this interface (please see screenshot). I am not sure how to call it.
If we are talking about file-picker, then I think we would want to rename "server files" to something else. MDL-23307 - they do display current course context files. Word "Server" sounds like you can see all files in the installation from all courses.

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In reply to Elena Ivanova

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by K P -
Here is what I don't get at all. I read all about why the new API, but in testing I think it is way too confusing and I feel like I am loosing control over my resources. Lets say I want to create question and then put a graph (I teach physics) on the question. The graph is a image file (png, gif, whatever). I can upload and add it no problem, but if I want to put the exact same image on another question, I have no idea where to find it. Do I seriously have to upload the same file again? I can see it in recent files, but I want the ability to create folders (lets say naming them after course topics or chapters in the textbook) to store the images in. This way I can easily find that graph image again. If I have to look at 300 images 100 of which are graphs to find the right one, this is a major problem for me.
I noticed that was a folder for the test quiz I created, but the image didn't appear there even though it was inserted into a question that I added to the quiz.

As an end user, I don't want to have a directory for the activity. I want a directory for the topic. I can remember that image x is in topic y, but I don't want to have to remember that image x was in question w in quiz v in topic y.

Am I missing something??
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In reply to K P

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by AL Rachels -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
It was a little confusing to me at first on how to do what you describe in Moodle 2.0 because like you, I was used to the old way. But in reality, after learning how to use the new repository system in 2.0, I find that it is actually easier to do something like what you describe. The reason is that in the old system, you had numbered folders for everything which was okay, once you learned how to figure out which one to put things in, but in 2.0 you (the admin) can actually set up NAMED folders in the File System repository which makes it a LOT easier to keep track of what you have stored in each folder. You can also add other Repository's besides the one named File System so you could actually give individual teachers a repository named after them. And of course, once you have the folders set up, then you can just do BULK uploads of pictures/files using ftp or like me, WinSCP.

He is how I do it:
Go to Site Administration > Plugins > Repositories > Manage Repositories
Set the File system repo to Enabled and Visible

You can use the up/down arrows to re-order/arrange the list of repo's if you so desire.

In the settings column, click on Settings for the File System repo.
Put check marks in the two boxes under Setup repository on file system, if you want teachers to be able to add repos in their courses.

In the bottom section, Repositories instances of the site, Click on Create a repository instance and give it a significant, meaningful name such as KameronPenceFiles, then click Save.

Then using ftp or WinSCP, you can bulk upload Kamerons's files and folders into "his" repository and when you go to add a picture/graph you will be able to see everything you uploaded.

Sorry if this is not clear enough...I'm trying to type this, eat, listen to a new music site I've learned about, read emails and snail mail.....smile, all at the same time.

If you need to, you can call me on Skype (daniel.rachels) and I can answer questions (English only)...maybe give you access to my sandbox so you can see how I've done it.

Hope this helped.
AL
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In reply to AL Rachels

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by Mary Cooch -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators
This is true but- afaik- a teacher who has a repository with their name on that you have set up can access materials from it but they can't upload into it -so there is still a need for some sort of course files alternative if they aren't to get stressed outsmile Most teachers can't or aren't allowed to FTP or webdav
BTW here's a blog post with a video by Gavin Hendrick re the file system repository http://moodle.drupalgardens.com/article/tue-06152010-1918/ftp-files-moodle-20-repository-api
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In reply to Mary Cooch

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by K P -
This for some reason does not work for me. After setting up the repository, it will ONLY show files when I am adding a file as a direct resource. If I try to use the insert image button the html editor, I see the repository, but there is not a thing inside of it but empty subfolders.
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In reply to AL Rachels

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by K P -
I tried that but it doesn't work. Yes you can add files and folders as a resource for a topic the way you describe but you cannot use a repository to add images to a question or using the "insert image" button in the HTML editor.

I can see the file system repository but it appears empty. All I see are empty subdirectories. This happens only when I am inserting an image into the editor window. I can't even use the file system repository at work because they block FTP access. I would have to use WebDAV because they haven't block that yet. I couldn't even get WebDAV to work with even just adding a resource file to a topic much less inserting an image into the editor.

So even though what you described is fine if I want to
Add files for students to download, but doesn't work if I want that graph image in their test questions.

My next resort is to use a URL link to the file in the WebDAV directory. To me this seems like a set back not an improvement.

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In reply to K P

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by AL Rachels -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
"I can see the file system repository but it appears empty. All I see are empty subdirectories."

I can reproduce this apparently empty folder behavior on my Linux servers and the problem is the permissions settings on the server Moodle data folders. The way I have my Linux servers setup, the root user is the owner of those folders. If I set the repository folder permissions to 0700, only root can read or write to them and when you try to use something from those folders with the web browser, you will always see them as empty. That is because the web page is being sent to you by the user named apache, in my case, and apache doesn't have the right permissions to do anything with those folders when they are set to 0700. I have to give read/write permission to "Others", 0707 or 0777, and then everything works the way you want them to, including being able to put pictures in test questions. smile You should have some way of checking the permissions at DH...worth a check to see.

As far as being blocked from FTP at school, I try to place all my files in the repo while at home. I also carry a copy of them on a thumb drive that I carry back and forth to work. If necessary, I can go from the usb stick to my cellphone (Motorola Droid x) and transfer stuff anyway...so far I've only had to do this when blocked from a site that I need to download something from. (I can also use the cellphone as a wifi hotspot for my computer at school and then the school blocking is bypassed. big grin) Luckily for me, secure ftp has not yet been blocked at school, so I continue to use WinSCP for transfers.

Hope this helps,
AL
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In reply to AL Rachels

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by Mary Cooch -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators
My school's Moodle is hosted externally and we don't even have access to the files on the server so even if teachers knew what FTP was they couldn't do it!wink
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In reply to AL Rachels

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by K P -
After I got him yesterday and per our skype conversation, I did go and set all the permissions to 777 for the file system folder and all of its contents and subfolders. Still did not work for me.

WebDAV still wouldn't work and Google Docs is not even an option for inserting images. It is for adding resources directly though.

Here is my biggest complaint. Even if I can get this working because it just seems to be a setting somewhere (you could add the images), FTP is not an option at school. I MIGHT be able to FTP through my "e"pad and my "e"phone both of which have to be jailbroken and tethered; even then there is no promise this will work because I get 1 bar and MAYBE edge in my classroom on my phone. Why put a Moodle teacher through all of this??? I don't want to have to do this from home. That is what my planning period if for at school. Yes I understand Moodle is meant for a lot more people than just teachers, but I can't possibly believe these problems are viable solutions to what seemed like a good set up in 1.9+.

Was this issue of people using Moodle as a file repository such a HUGE problem that it warranted these massive changes to the way we pick files for different things? So what if people use Moodle as a file repository? So what if they end up uploading the same resource 5 times. It is their server or their money paying for one.

It is just that I have spent days trying to come up with a viable solution to my particular problem which I am sure other people share to no avail at the moment. Really my only option is a WEBdav repository which my school has yet to block. And when they block that then Moodle 2.0 has just increased my work load by forcing me to do at home in my own time what I could have done in the time I am allowed for this kind of thing at work.


EDIT: I did manage to get the file system repository to see the files. It wasn't a permission thing it was a file name thing. Many of my image files were called *.PNG (all caps). Moodle 2 cannot see extensions in all caps. I do not know how they got into all caps. I didn't save them that way. WebDAV still does not work though and that is my ONLY viable option.

Mary, Going to go vote right now!

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In reply to Davo Smith

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by lawrence li -
Dave, one thing we want is a library to store all the learning objects, with tags / related information linked to the object so that course maker would search the tag and related object listed out and select those objects to their course, is it available in Moodle 2.0 or external plugin for this purpose? I think many people also looking for this function
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In reply to Davo Smith

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by Tim Williams -
Picture of Plugin developers
Is there any way to get the file browser to pop out in it's own proper separate (resizeable) window? On a normal computer, the new file browser is too small, not resizeable and I can't move it to the 'other' monitor on my dual monitor system because it is stuck inside the browser window.

Conversely, when using my smart phone (Nokia X6), the file browser is too big for the screen horizontally and vertically, requiring constant scrolling.

It would also be nice if the user profile setting 'AJAX and Javascript' (and it's global equivalent) caused a non-Javascript heavy version of the file browser to be used, as far as I can tell this isn't the case.

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In reply to Tim Williams

Re: Moodle 2.0 File browser - some thoughts

by Rosario Carcò -

Have a look at the blocks I developed for 1.9x myCourses and siteNavigation. The latest version combines the two blocks into one and offers popUp-Windows: one for displaying longer category and course names and two to gain in speed on big sites with more than 1'500 courses deeply nested in over 900 categories:

http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=67494

http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=103703

For the moment being I have a Moodle 2.05 Server but only for tests, so I can not test the performance of the new navigation on medium to large scale sites like our 1.9 production server is with more than 4'700 courses deeply nested in more than 1'100 categories.

Rosario

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