Dear developers/users,
I am trying to tinker the quiz module, so that I could add the feature of negative marking for the every wrong answers.
But I am not sure where I should touch the code to do this, Which file are function that I need to change to achieve this.
RJ
I advise the question author to re-think how they structure their quiz, which can effectivly 'create' negative marks.
One idea is to ensure when the quiz is set up to not release any feedback information, or specifically grades once the attempt is submitted. Instead, by using the 'Detailed Responses' Moodle Quiz Report plug-in (committed to 2.0 core I believe) all answers can be downloaded to Excel, quickly re-marked externally and then imported back into Moodle. This approach has been easy to impliment and a stop-gap for those who insist on negative marks for a question.
Another option may be to consider looking into Certainty Based Marking, although I do not think this is fully developed for Moodle yet.
One idea is to ensure when the quiz is set up to not release any feedback information, or specifically grades once the attempt is submitted. Instead, by using the 'Detailed Responses' Moodle Quiz Report plug-in (committed to 2.0 core I believe) all answers can be downloaded to Excel, quickly re-marked externally and then imported back into Moodle. This approach has been easy to impliment and a stop-gap for those who insist on negative marks for a question.
Another option may be to consider looking into Certainty Based Marking, although I do not think this is fully developed for Moodle yet.
In reply to Matt Jenner
Απάντηση: Re: how to add 'Negative marks' to the quiz
by Σπύρος Ζαφειρόπουλος -
On a multiple choise question i just want Moodle to prevent that someone who checks all 4 answers (when 2 are the right ones) doesn't get the grade of that question.
I don't want to "create" negative marks, just a way to go around my problem.
I don't want to "create" negative marks, just a way to go around my problem.
In reply to Σπύρος Ζαφειρόπουλος
Re: Απάντηση: Re: how to add 'Negative marks' to the quiz
by Jeff Forssell -
Moodle DOES allow negative marks for answer alternatives in a multiple select question.
What people do is set
a) Right +50%
b) right +50%
c) not right -50% or -100%
d) not right -50% or -100%
than a student who checks all 4 answers gets zero (if you use -100% than even marking 3 alternatives will give zero if that's what you want. But they won't get any lower for 4 because Moodle doesn't yet support negative points for a QUESTION.)
What people do is set
a) Right +50%
b) right +50%
c) not right -50% or -100%
d) not right -50% or -100%
than a student who checks all 4 answers gets zero (if you use -100% than even marking 3 alternatives will give zero if that's what you want. But they won't get any lower for 4 because Moodle doesn't yet support negative points for a QUESTION.)
In reply to Jeff Forssell
Re: Απάντηση: Re: how to add 'Negative marks' to the quiz
by Sulany dos Santos -
Hi everybody,
I am a new moodler. I made a quiz for my students and I would like that each 4 wrong answers anulled a correct answer (like the SAT examination).
I've tried all possible options (I think) in the setting of each question in the quiz. Like:
a)correct 100%
incorrect -100%
b) correct 100%
incorrect -75%
c) correct 100%
incorrect -25%
I also tried the above options with Multiple answer and only one answer. But nothing worked so far.
Do you have any hint to help me?
Regards
Sulany dos Santos
I am a new moodler. I made a quiz for my students and I would like that each 4 wrong answers anulled a correct answer (like the SAT examination).
I've tried all possible options (I think) in the setting of each question in the quiz. Like:
a)correct 100%
incorrect -100%
b) correct 100%
incorrect -75%
c) correct 100%
incorrect -25%
I also tried the above options with Multiple answer and only one answer. But nothing worked so far.
Do you have any hint to help me?
Regards
Sulany dos Santos
Negative marks seem to be a major problem within the "normal" quizzes. Perhaps there should be a second, different type of quiz.
Hi Stefan,
I never use negative marking myself and I'm really puzzled that this is such a hot topic on this forum. Maybe because I only use the Quiz module for learning purposes, not for assessment. Anyway, here goes. Hereafter NG = negative marking.
- We must distinguish between NG for individual questions and for the score of a whole quiz.
- Different question types may have different NG behavior.
- We must distinguish between multiple choice questions (MCQ) with single answer and MCQ with multiple answers.
- In the latter type (MCQ with multiple answers) it seems to me (and many others) that there exists one and only one logical possibility for NG, and that is the one explained by Jeff in his message above (Monday, 11 May 2009, 08:56 AM).
- Whatever feature is provided in the Question types or the Quiz module itself there will be end-users who will want something else. When you browse through the past posts in this very active Quiz forum you will find an amazing quantity of requests for marking/scoring features (including NG). More often than not, users mention that the reason they are missing a particular feature in the Moodle Quiz is that that feature exists in a paper quiz examination set by their administrative authority. They never question the validity of such a feature to start with. In my opinion, too many Moodle users want it to reproduce exactly the features of their traditional paper-based former tools, instead of looking at what Moodle offers and take the opportunity to change their former ways of teaching.
PS.- Point 5 above took me further than that NG starting point... Moodlers who know me won't be surprised at my usual stance on "using new tools for a new pedagogy".
In reply to Joseph Rézeau
Απάντηση: Re: how to add 'Negative marks' to the quiz
by Σπύρος Ζαφειρόπουλος -
I agree with Stefan on "using new tools for a new pedagogy" although some of us may find Moodle quiz as a flexible assessment tool.
My problem in MCQ with multiple answers is not about giving negative marks to the wrong questions but to prevent the student to check all the answers kai get the maximum grade.
I have posted my question in the Moodle community and I managed to work around this problem by converting a MCQ with multiple answers to a MCQ with single answer, e.g.
Question: Check the following
a. something (50%)
b. something else
c. nothing (50%)
d. nothing else
Which of the following is right?
1. a, b
2. a, c
3. a, d
4. b,c
4. None of the above
I woud prefer to keep my qustion in "multiple answers" mode but someting to be fixed about the user being able to choose a, b, c, d all together and get 100% of the grade of that question.
My problem in MCQ with multiple answers is not about giving negative marks to the wrong questions but to prevent the student to check all the answers kai get the maximum grade.
I have posted my question in the Moodle community and I managed to work around this problem by converting a MCQ with multiple answers to a MCQ with single answer, e.g.
Question: Check the following
a. something (50%)
b. something else
c. nothing (50%)
d. nothing else
Which of the following is right?
1. a, b
2. a, c
3. a, d
4. b,c
4. None of the above
I woud prefer to keep my qustion in "multiple answers" mode but someting to be fixed about the user being able to choose a, b, c, d all together and get 100% of the grade of that question.
In reply to Σπύρος Ζαφειρόπουλος
Re: Απάντηση: Re: how to add 'Negative marks' to the quiz
by Jeff Forssell -
I don't understand what you need that is not addressed in my suggestion above.
In reply to Jeff Forssell
Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: Re: how to add 'Negative marks' to the quiz
by Σπύρος Ζαφειρόπουλος -
I thought I was clear...
Anyway, what I need and is not included in your suggestion is without using any negative mark (MCQ with multiple answers) to be able to give a 0 grade when all answers are selected because I haven't found a negative marking that seems fair.
Anyway, what I need and is not included in your suggestion is without using any negative mark (MCQ with multiple answers) to be able to give a 0 grade when all answers are selected because I haven't found a negative marking that seems fair.
In reply to Σπύρος Ζαφειρόπουλος
Re: Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: Re: how to add 'Negative marks' to the quiz
by Jeff Forssell -
I don't know what you think is "fair".
The negative markings can as a worst case give ZERO on the question even when the sum of the 2 wrongs could give -200%.
if a and c are right, what grade do you want for:
abcd? (My guess 0)
abc? (My guess 0.5 or 0 )
ac? (My guess 1)
abc? (My guess 0.5 or 0)
bd? (My guess 0)
a (My guess 0.5)
b (My guess 0)
c (My guess 0.5)
d (My guess 0)
bc (My guess 0.5)
all my guesses would be covered by my suggestions, but maybe you have some other goal.
The negative markings can as a worst case give ZERO on the question even when the sum of the 2 wrongs could give -200%.
if a and c are right, what grade do you want for:
abcd? (My guess 0)
abc? (My guess 0.5 or 0 )
ac? (My guess 1)
abc? (My guess 0.5 or 0)
bd? (My guess 0)
a (My guess 0.5)
b (My guess 0)
c (My guess 0.5)
d (My guess 0)
bc (My guess 0.5)
all my guesses would be covered by my suggestions, but maybe you have some other goal.
sir,
I am using moodle 3, and using question of multiple type with one correct answer. I want to add negative mark for wrong answer. How to do plz help ...
Thanks
Ashok
Joseph,
neither I want to reproduce a feature that exists in a paper quiz examination, nor I need to consider any authority. I am responsible for 20 subjects, not just for one. In 19 of these 20 the existing question types are adequate.
You developed "Regular Expression Short Answer" when you distinguished, that the existing question types did not fit with your requirements. You certainly did not see a violation of pedagogical principles when you recognized, that there is a need for "Regular Expression Short Answer".
Other moodlers are in need for other special question types. different subjects - different requirements!
As you have NG in MCQ a lot of Moodlers need NG in Cloze-Questions. Imagine ONE Cloze-Question with 6 subquestions. Similar to MCQ you need negative marks for the subquestions, so that the ONE Cloze question may have a score of 0 caused by one or more wrong answered subquestions.
Moodle is a very powerful system, it should be expanded. The allegation "instead of looking at what Moodle offers and take the opportunity to change their former ways of teaching" results from a specific point of view. This allegation is not always appropriate, may frustrate other Moodlers and developers of new question types.
Stefan
If you don't go forwards you go backwards.
neither I want to reproduce a feature that exists in a paper quiz examination, nor I need to consider any authority. I am responsible for 20 subjects, not just for one. In 19 of these 20 the existing question types are adequate.
You developed "Regular Expression Short Answer" when you distinguished, that the existing question types did not fit with your requirements. You certainly did not see a violation of pedagogical principles when you recognized, that there is a need for "Regular Expression Short Answer".
Other moodlers are in need for other special question types. different subjects - different requirements!
As you have NG in MCQ a lot of Moodlers need NG in Cloze-Questions. Imagine ONE Cloze-Question with 6 subquestions. Similar to MCQ you need negative marks for the subquestions, so that the ONE Cloze question may have a score of 0 caused by one or more wrong answered subquestions.
Moodle is a very powerful system, it should be expanded. The allegation "instead of looking at what Moodle offers and take the opportunity to change their former ways of teaching" results from a specific point of view. This allegation is not always appropriate, may frustrate other Moodlers and developers of new question types.
Stefan
If you don't go forwards you go backwards.
Hi Stefan,
Thanks for your reply. I quite agree with all you say. Please forgive my previous stance. Maybe I was just in one of those grumpy moods.
All the best,
Jospeh
Thanks for your reply. I quite agree with all you say. Please forgive my previous stance. Maybe I was just in one of those grumpy moods.
All the best,
Jospeh
Joseph,
lets look forwards. Pierre Pichet developed "Newmultianswer" (You´ll get a copy) and I think, that some modifications of it would solve most of the NG problems in Cloze questions. (I think, the NG-problem is mainly a Cloze-question-problem.)
As Newmultianswer does not modify the database it seems to be a passable way.
(beeing grumpy: Perhaps a list with "Tipps and Tricks" will help users to train their skills using the existing questions)
Stefan
lets look forwards. Pierre Pichet developed "Newmultianswer" (You´ll get a copy) and I think, that some modifications of it would solve most of the NG problems in Cloze questions. (I think, the NG-problem is mainly a Cloze-question-problem.)
As Newmultianswer does not modify the database it seems to be a passable way.
(beeing grumpy: Perhaps a list with "Tipps and Tricks" will help users to train their skills using the existing questions)
Stefan
It's hard to understand why Moodle still doesn't allow negative marking as an option. Moodle surely should be as little prescriptive as possible. It was one really simple thing to change when I implemented Certainty-Based Marking (at www.ucl.ac.uk/lapt/moodle19/moodle ). Though negative marking can be used dumbly as well as sensibly, it has a fundamentally important rationale (especially when, as in CBM, students have the option to avoid the risks of negative marking by acknowledging uncertainty, with lower reward). There are many discussions, e.g. at http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=90013 and http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=63003.
Hi,
I must say that a lot of teachers ask us for negative marks on multiple choice questions. They use it on paper exams so they want to use it on-line. Regardless if it is a good or bad pedagogical approach i think moodle should offer this setting.
The main idea is to prevent/minimize students from choosing answers randomly. "Better to leave it blank than choose the wrong answer".
We hacked our moodle (tests server) using:
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=46862#p501237
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=47599#p222888
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=85473#p385804
(... all the same)
It seems to work fine but we are still testing it in order to enable it on production next academic year. Such a simple hack that i can't understand why the setting is not available in moodle core... Does anyone understand why?
Thank you.
I must say that a lot of teachers ask us for negative marks on multiple choice questions. They use it on paper exams so they want to use it on-line. Regardless if it is a good or bad pedagogical approach i think moodle should offer this setting.
The main idea is to prevent/minimize students from choosing answers randomly. "Better to leave it blank than choose the wrong answer".
We hacked our moodle (tests server) using:
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=46862#p501237
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=47599#p222888
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=85473#p385804
(... all the same)
It seems to work fine but we are still testing it in order to enable it on production next academic year. Such a simple hack that i can't understand why the setting is not available in moodle core... Does anyone understand why?
Thank you.
It will happen one day. I am surprised that MDL-1647 does not have more votes, given how passionately some people seem to feel about this. (That was a hint 
)