Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

by Hans de Zwart -
Number of replies: 11
Darcy Norman has written the following post (quoted partly):

I’ve been looking for a way to export a Moodle course in a format that can be ingested in another standards-compliant LMS. The obvious choices are SCORM or IMS-CP.

But, neither are supported as export formats from Moodle. Moodle happily ingests those formats, acting to absorb content into what then becomes an inescapable pit of quicksand. It’s a one-way trip. Content can check in, but it can never leave.

If Blackboard did that, there would be villagers marching in the streets with torches in hand. The Blackboard SCORM import/export stuff might not be perfect, but at least they try to let people move content out.

With Moodle, it’s currently a vendor lock-in proposition. The only saving grace is that the vendor just happens to be an open source project. But it’s still lock-in.

It has led to a reaction by Micheal Feldstein and now Stephen Downes.

I think this discussion merits some kind of response somewhere: they have gotten it wrong. Obviously there are no suitable standards to which a Moodle course could be exported. If you would have a need to export, you could write it yourself (everything is out in the open en no one will get upset if your touch your own datatabase) and the nice thing about Moodle is that you are never locked in to any vendor: if you don't like the company that is helping you with your Moodle installation, you can always find another one!

Does anyone have any thoughts on this topic?

Kind regards,

Hans de Zwart


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In reply to Hans de Zwart

Re: Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
This is very much a paper argument. Generally, standards are good, and moodle does not offer export in what standards there are, so if you want to argue against Moodle, this is a cheap way to score points.

However, this argument does not hold up to closer scrutiny. The main problem is that current learning standards are not very good. The online learning experiences offered by Moodle, Blackboard, and others are incredibly rich and flexible. The standards currently let you encode some, but not all, of that.

For comparison, consider a highly successful standard that lots of people support: HTML. HTML is a way of representing documents, made of you Headings, paragraphs, bulleted lists, and so on. The structure of documents has long been understood and pretty simple, and HTML has been around for over 15 years and has gone through many versions, so now it is a good standard.

So that is the first counter, the standards are not good enough yet to capture what LMSs are capable of.


Now, as the blog post you quote says, the main reason people care about standards is to allow people to get their content out of Moodle and in to another system if they want to. Well in all the cases I am familiar with (which is mostly people moving content out of other systems and into Moodle, not the other way round, but the principle is the same) people tend to start with the native format of the other system, and work out how to extract the data and get it into Moodle, while dealing with the differences between the two systems. For example, the Moodle question bank (the part I know best) has importers for WebCT and Blackboard, etc. format directly, and it does not import any standard formats. This is what people actually found useful, and so what got implemented.

To make this sort of direct (as opposed to via a standard) import/export possible, the important thing is to be able to get the data out of a system in a machine-readable format. Moodle is actually very good at this. Almost all data in Moodle can be exported as XML. In particular course backups contain all the data from the course. (In the case the XML file is inside a zip file containing the course files too). Also, questions can be exported in Moodle XML format, and I know of at least one other system that can import Moodle XML questions. The new gradebook can export grades in and XML format that the OU is using to both import grades from, and export grades to, other systems.


And even more basic, all the data in Moodle is held in a standard database. Unfortunately, it is a common complaint that the structure of that database is not yet as well documented as it should be. However, all the code that accesses and processes the data is available for public view, and so directly pulling it out of the database is yet another option if you want to get the data out.


Oh, and some Moodle systems do offer their content in standard formats. For example http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/course/view.php?id=2790 - look in the Alternative Formats block on the right. So, people are working on it, and the facilities will only get better with time.


Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

by Hans de Zwart -
Thank you for spending your time making this so explicit. I wholeheartedly agree with all your points! This is indeed a paper argument, but perpetrated by people whom I usually agree with. My guess: neither of them have a deep knowledge of Moodle...

Will you post this in any of the comments on those blogs?
In reply to Hans de Zwart

Re: Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
I won't comment on those blogs, but feel free to comment yourself, linking to my forum post, if you think it is worth it.
In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

by Ger Tielemans -

Tim, are the plugins to create the common cartridge export and the other formats already public available?


  • To comment on standards: If you develop in your own system - for example Moodle - a course where also groupactivities are part of the core of that course, there is still no standard for doing a good export.
  • The only type of courses you can export are courses:
    • completely built on top of individual activities,
    • and only if you stick to strict SCORM,
    • and also only if you do not use lot of SCORM VLE<-->LMS interfacing, because on that point most SCORM exports break.
    • So you use only a very, very poor subset of SCORM to survive an export<-->Import.

 25 years ago we thought that supporting individual learning was good. It were the years of the optimisation of the instructional processes.

Since then the educational researchers discovered that learning on your own is good.. but learning together is better and richer from an information processing perspective.

A VLE with only individual assignments, hanging on an electronic Chinese wall, combined with some not integrated (read: non-near-by) forums is not my dream VLE...


IMS/LD was the promissing standard to support the design and export/import of learning in groups

Now the big funding has stopped for IMS/LD and none of the big companies decided to work further on that research, the development has almost stopped, while they still have to solve the last minor bits.

I understand that Martin cannot held - as only one - the promiss he made to Rob Koper and Moodle community - in Portugal two years ago -  to become the first VLE with built-in IMS/LD, as long as there are no other companies to support IMS/LD also. (export between two moodles is already superior good)

The only system that comes close to IMS/LD is LAMS, and Moodle offers integration for a connection with a LAMS server.


In a Dutch project we work together with several other platforms. For that reason we do not use lesson for complex designs, we cannot use Moodle export, so we look for other tools like eXelearning.  

Last comment: the torture of the Moodle-XML-export is that you see that it has an XML structure, but there is no description of the design of that XML-tree, so the suggestion of Hans to write your own import/export (even on top of that XML) is not a realistic proposal.   

 

In reply to Ger Tielemans

Re: Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

Tim, are the plugins to create the common cartridge export and the other formats already public available?



I think at the moment, most of openlearn starts life as what we call OU XML, and the IMS CC is built form that using XSLT. However, I am not entirely sure. I don't know that part of our codebase. I'll try to remember to get Jenny Grey to look at this thread when I get back to work on Tuesday after the holiday weekend.
In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

by Jim Farmer -

Hans de Zwart has brought a useful topic to our attention—portability of learning content. The subsequent discussion focused on the transfer of content associated with a change in learning systems. Work usually done by tech-savvy systems administrators. Perhaps a more important perspective is instructors—especially the 68% of the early and late majority—who could benefit using content authored by others.

So far e-learning software and content has been developed by those with technical skills, interests, and the opportunity to devote time to developing learning systems and authoring complex content. But today’s teaching faculty face increasing class size, more under-prepared students and diverse learning styles, and, for many, the requirement to continue to publish, preferably in prestigious peer-reviewed journals. Or said differently, faculty have little time to develop or even implement e-learning course content. Here in the U.S. more than half of college and university classes are taught by adjunct faculty not paid for course development or improvement. Similarly many of the majority do not have the same computer programming skills and interests associated with education technologists. For them writing content even in HTML, as Tim Hunt suggested for interoperability, is not an option. Lacking time and skills, these faculty tend to select publisher provided materials.

Currently 86% of the faculty in the U.S. depend upon publishers for course materials—slides to “power” the smart classrooms, test items to support frequent quizzes, and supplementary materials including podcasts, video clips, notes, and references. Many faculty use the publisher’s online homework (30%) and online quizzes (19%). With the availability of open education resources such as Open University’s Open Learn and Rice University’s Connexions, totals of those using “portable content” would be higher.

Ger Tielemans referred to SCORM from Advanced Distributed Learning. Common cartridge, new from IMS Global Learning Consortium Inc. is another. Some publishers have committed to support Common Cartridge. Blackboard, which continues to have a dominant market share in higher education, has not committed to a date when Common Cartridge will be available; leaving little incentive for publishers to produce materials in a format only a limited market can support. ANGEL Learning, an early supporter of the technology, has ten “content” partners expected to provide materials in Common Cartridge format.

SCORM is heavily used for commercial and government training as well as within colleges and universities.

Last September Kevin Wampler from ANGEL Learning Inc. demonstrated the use of a sample Common Cartridge provided by Pearson Education at an IMS quarterly meeting. Michael Neuman from Georgetown University, asked Kevin to demonstrate as if he were a faculty member downloading the cartridge and installing it on the local ANGEL learning system. Michael was suggesting a totally different perspective on portability. He was interested in the feasibility of downloading and installing a complete course without any technical support. Instead of moving content from one system to another, Michael was suggesting a much broader and different need—the need of a typical faculty member interested in using available content.

During the demonstration Michael Neuman saw a download of the Common Cartridge, content and quizzes loaded to the ANGEL system, a link established to a publisher website, and student lecture notes posted to a website. Though never cited as a benefit, Kevin demonstrated a “one click download and one click install” no more complex that downloading a paper. He also demonstrated changes could be done with a few simple screens. A discussion group could have been set up, but was not included in this cartridge. Kevin had made an important point about portability he may not have envisioned.

Cartridges are not new. Both Blackboard and WebCT had cartridges. But “Common” is important since it means for publishers and content authors, only one format, not one format for each of the 100 learning systems in use in colleges and universities. And it incorporates content not available in earlier cartridges.

Common Cartridge is important because it could satisfy the current needs of a majority of teaching faculty. SCORM could be used similarly for packaged content. Millions of students could benefit. Anticipating this development and its potential use, Open University UK agreed to provide Open Learn materials as Common Cartridge. It is Common Cartridge, not the XML described by Tim, that may prove to be most important. But it required learning systems support the standard.

Tim and Ger are associated with institutions that have used more complex learning materials to achieve high levels of retention and completion. Ger has been a strong supporter of learning design because it has provided effective. The evidence suggests the high “return on investment” from authoring and using these learning materials. But at this point they are ahead of the majority by several years.

Which standard do you follow?

This need, the available standards, and the future was a topic of informal discussion at the January meeting of the Aviation Industry CBT Consortium. But the participants were unusual: Michael Korcuska, Executive Director of the Sakai Foundation and Jason Cole, now CEO of the eLearning Hub, Inc. joined Avron Barr from the Advanced Distributed Learning. The question they were discussing was the use of the current SCORM 2004 and the Common Cartridge from the IMS Global Learning Consortium, and the forthcoming SCORM 2.0 from LETSI (Learning-Education-Training Systems Interoperability). These discussions continue and I hope they share their observations and suggestions with all of us.

In her February 26th article published in Inside Higher Ed, Lisa Petrides wrote:

"Unfortunately, the movement to use open educational resources in higher education hasn’t yet realized the full impact that its founders anticipated. Open content is still in its infancy and faces some technical and cultural challenges that affect its widespread adoption.

"Interoperability—the ability of multiple initiatives on different technology platforms to seamlessly share metadata and resources—is at the root of the technical challenge for open education resources. Like many initiatives in education, there is a tangled web of entry. People in higher education are accessing OER using numerous technologies, software applications, and Web sites. Content can be found in dozens and dozens of different formats."

The same observation applies to publisher materials as well. As an educator, I hope she can provide the leadership needed to make portable content broadly available and supported.

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In reply to Jim Farmer

Re: Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

by John Isner -
For more detail on the Common Cartridge demo that Jim Farmer talks about in his post, read his guest blog post on Michael Feldstein's e-Literate blog.

Textbook publisher-provided online materials are important as a consequence of simple economics. The majority of post-secondary teachers are adjuncts who aren't paid to develop courses. They are given a textbook and told to use the publisher's online material. Publishers currently provide such material through their own proprietary systems, such as Pearson's MyMathLab (which I use).

I recently took a test drive of Angel. I find Moodle infinitely more usable. Given a choice of LMS's, I would choose Moodle without hesitation. But I would use it only for course management and forums, while using MyMathLab for content and activities (homework assignments, quizzes, tests, and study plans). Once Angel and the texbtook publishers have successfully implemented IMS/CC, I would be strongly tempted to switch to Angel as a single, integrated solution.
In reply to Hans de Zwart

Re: Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
Mostly to reinforce what Tim says...

Standards have become something of a holy grail. Speak out against them at your peril. However, on the whole, I don't buy it. If Learning Platform One has facilities A,B & C and Learning Platform Two has facilities C,D & E then the only thing you can transfer between them is facility C and even that's possibly only meaningful if they work in the same way.

Of course, to turn it on your head you can define the standard and then expect Learning Platforms to support it. This just produces lots of clones and no innovation.

Always remember, too, that if you have a Moodle course there's no hassle to use it. Just install Moodle (it's free smile ).

BTW... who is D'Arcy Norman anyway?
In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

by Ray Lawrence -
BTW... who is D'Arcy Norman anyway?

.. and why wasn't it possible to add further comments (FF or IE7) yesterday?
In reply to Hans de Zwart

Re: Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

by Michael Penney -
I noticed that the Book module in 1.9 at least provides an IMS Content Package export - so for folks who want to export content in IMS CP this may provide a good option.
In reply to Michael Penney

Re: Learning standards: Moodle and "vendor lock-in"

by Ger Tielemans -

Well, the dream is to insert text, pictures, applets and Flashes and export complet IMS/CP "books" to other platforms, but on this moment the product breaks very easy.