In my first serious attempt at a quiz I noted that the feedback provided in the "marking" response had re-ordered the options in each question. I had set the quize to randomise the options.
Unfortunately I entered all the questions with the correct answer as the first choice, so the feedback could give away answers to students who observe the pattern.
Do I need to mix up the options manually to make the quiz slightly more difficult for people who know some answers and can recognise a recurring pattern when they see one...?
I do want the feedback as it refers the students to material they should review when they submit incorrect options.
Hello,
I am getting the same problem with random questions.With each new attempt new randomly selected qns should be presented which is not occuring. Also after submitting quiz the qns, ans and feedback are reordered, and are not in the same sequence as the qns were presented. (Randomization of quiz questions and answers is lost after submitting quiz on the page on which feedback is displayed.) Also same problem occurs in report review page / display.No randomization of questions occurs with "random question". This problem occurs when I select random questions from a category of questions. [Same questions are presented always in same order.] Is this a bug? Or I need to switch on some options?
Your help will be appreciated.
Regards,
Parag
Hello,
Can anybody help to solve this problem?
Regards,
Parag
Please help
parag m
I can't offer help, but sympathy. We had noticed the same problems with the randomization. We have tried a variety of methods and have found no solution yet.
Hi Mary, Parag and Matiu,
I think that the reordering of questions answers when feedback is activated is by "design":
$quiz->shuffleanswers = false; // Never shuffle answers in feedback
If you want to change it ( but you will not have the same order as at the attempt ) replace false with true in
moodle/mod/quiz/attempt.php around line 143:
if ($quiz->feedback) {
$quiz->shuffleanswers = true; // Never shuffle answers in feedback
quiz_print_quiz_questions($quiz, $result, $questions, $shuffleorder);
print_continue("view.php?id=$cm->id");
}
I don't know if there are side effects to doing this. Be carefull test it before putting it on a production system.
Have a good test,
Bernard
I think that the reordering of questions answers when feedback is activated is by "design":
$quiz->shuffleanswers = false; // Never shuffle answers in feedback
If you want to change it ( but you will not have the same order as at the attempt ) replace false with true in
moodle/mod/quiz/attempt.php around line 143:
if ($quiz->feedback) {
$quiz->shuffleanswers = true; // Never shuffle answers in feedback
quiz_print_quiz_questions($quiz, $result, $questions, $shuffleorder);
print_continue("view.php?id=$cm->id");
}
I don't know if there are side effects to doing this. Be carefull test it before putting it on a production system.
Have a good test,
Bernard
Hello Mr. Bernard,
Thanks a lot for your help. I tested the change you suggested.
After changing the option from false to true ($quiz->shuffleanswers = true;) the answers and coresponding feedback are shuffled after submitting quiz.
But the random order is different from the order in which the quetions were presented--this you had suggested.
Now I have 2 queries:
1)Is it possible to have (afer submitting quiz) the same questions order as at the attempt.
2)Is it possible to have (in attempt/report review) the same questions order as at the attempt.
Now it is clear that this feature is not supported in moodle. Am I correct?
If this is true then students will be confused due to changing order of questions at attempt, after submitting quiz and in attempt review.
I feel it is important to develop this feature.
What changes exactly will need to be made so that moodle supports this?
How much programming effort will it take? Which files need to be changed?
Your help in this regard will be very much appreciated.
Thanks once again.
Regards,
Parag
Thanks a lot for your help. I tested the change you suggested.
After changing the option from false to true ($quiz->shuffleanswers = true;) the answers and coresponding feedback are shuffled after submitting quiz.
But the random order is different from the order in which the quetions were presented--this you had suggested.
Now I have 2 queries:
1)Is it possible to have (afer submitting quiz) the same questions order as at the attempt.
2)Is it possible to have (in attempt/report review) the same questions order as at the attempt.
Now it is clear that this feature is not supported in moodle. Am I correct?
If this is true then students will be confused due to changing order of questions at attempt, after submitting quiz and in attempt review.
I feel it is important to develop this feature.
What changes exactly will need to be made so that moodle supports this?
How much programming effort will it take? Which files need to be changed?
Your help in this regard will be very much appreciated.
Thanks once again.
Regards,
Parag
Hello,
Any answers please.
I had trouble understanding this thread.
On the page where feedback is given to the students, the order of the questions is the same order as the questions were written and not the same random order in which they were presented in the quiz attempt.
So if we have written the questions with the first answer always correct, then a student can spot the pattern and get 100% on the test without trying. I wonder if any of my students have been doing this. The thing is that they will have to memorise the correct answers because when they attempt the test again the answers will again be randomised. But I agree that this is something that students will soon learn to do. Bad news.
I guess that in future I will make sure that I write questions with the right answer in a variety of places (i.e. with A, B, C, and D having their fair share of right answers. ) And use Bernards's hack above in the meantime while I have question sets that have the correct answer as the first answer alone.
However even so, I admit it is not ideal that the order should change between the test page and feedback page. Hmm...Since they are not the same, and sense the default is to change the order of the answers, I suggest that Bernard's hack be made standard since
1) If shuffling is sturned off a lot of us are going to have problems with question sets where all the correct answers are the first answer.
2) If shuffling is turned on there is no penalty becuase the order of the feedback will still be in a different order to the questions anyway. The only situation where the order of the questions will match the order of the feedback is that where where the answers were not shuffled in the test attempt. But then they will not be shuffled in the feedback page anyway, will they? I mean...can't shuffling in the feedback page be set to the value it had in the quiz attempt (and not to true?)
I.e. If instead of $quiz->shuffleanswers = false; or $quiz->shuffleanswers = true; then if this line is simply left out then (I guess) the feedback will be shuffled according to the setting given by the quiz creator.
However this will leave the problem of the fact that the order of the feedback will be different to the order of the attempt.
Since the feedback page is using the same routine for displaying the questions as the test itself (attempt.php), it is going to be pretty difficult to display in the same order. I guess that an extra row would have to be added to the database containing the order of the last attempt and that the feedback screen used that order rather than a shuffled screen.
However, I think that Bernard's hack (or perhaps mine) is very useful. It will prevent disaster (all the students getting 100% in the test on the second attempt) for the time being.
Tim
Do you have CVS priviledges for the quiz Bernard?
In reply to Timothy Takemoto
Re: Random multichoice quiz -> non-random feedback
by Bernard Boucher -
Hi Timothy and Parag,
more I think about it more I find that non-random feedback is a problem
Timothy you discover a bad side effect of that small hack. Maybe there are more. As you suggest the randomisation of the feedback must be dependant of settings of the quiz itself.
Finding and testing a small hack like that is feasible during luch time.
But adding one or some fields to remember answers order and questions order require a more methodical analysis of the problem, keeping in account the 3 existing levels of randomization of the quiz ( answers, question order, questions from a pool )
For a slow guy like me it may take 1 or 2 days of developpement and testing. By this time I keep my developpment time for that. ( and it is not sufficient )
In meantime maybe Mike questionnaire module or Thomas hotpot module may give you better satisfaction that moodle genuine quiz module. I apologize I didn't take time to test these 2 modules that add to moodle 2 new quizzing facilities developped by thirth parties and adapted by moodlers.
Time is always the biggest problem
Bye,
Bernard
ps I don't have CVS rights.
more I think about it more I find that non-random feedback is a problem
Timothy you discover a bad side effect of that small hack. Maybe there are more. As you suggest the randomisation of the feedback must be dependant of settings of the quiz itself.
Finding and testing a small hack like that is feasible during luch time.
But adding one or some fields to remember answers order and questions order require a more methodical analysis of the problem, keeping in account the 3 existing levels of randomization of the quiz ( answers, question order, questions from a pool )
For a slow guy like me it may take 1 or 2 days of developpement and testing. By this time I keep my developpment time for that. ( and it is not sufficient )
In meantime maybe Mike questionnaire module or Thomas hotpot module may give you better satisfaction that moodle genuine quiz module. I apologize I didn't take time to test these 2 modules that add to moodle 2 new quizzing facilities developped by thirth parties and adapted by moodlers.
Time is always the biggest problem
Bye,
Bernard
ps I don't have CVS rights.