Incorrect feedback behavior in the lesson module (Moodle 1.7)

Incorrect feedback behavior in the lesson module (Moodle 1.7)

by Jan Balter -
Number of replies: 10

Hi Community,

My problem concerning the lesson module of Moodle 1.7 is, that Moodle assigns given feedback (of multiplechoice answers) wrongly. In a lesson that contains multiplechoice questions in which more than one answer is correct, the related feedback entries (belonging to each possible answer) are mixed up! If I chose only one answer to be correct it works fine.

Can anybody help?

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

´*+ nachoposse +*`

 

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In reply to Jan Balter

Re: Incorrect feedback behavior in the lesson module (Moodle 1.7)

by Dr S Bhatia -
We'd love to know a few more details

may be if you can attach screenshots of:
  1. Lesson settings
  2. Question in 'edit' stage
thanks
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In reply to Jan Balter

Re: Incorrect feedback behavior in the lesson module (Moodle 1.7)

by Chris Collman -
Picture of Documentation writers
Hi,
Very interesting. It appears to be a bug. I put in Tracker for us as MDL-7683 . I happened to be checking out questions in 1.7 to refine a MoodleDoc entry (thank you Dr. S Bhatia for your excellent addition there) and this question fit right insmile

Here is what I did and what happened so others can check it out. I am using the latest 1.7 on a local host, certificate module is the only non standard thing. I created a multichoice question (remembering to check the box).

In my question, I had 4 answers: Correct1, Correct2, Wrong1, Wrong2 and the reponses said something like "Response to Correct1" etc. When I checked off the only two correct answers the first time I only saw "Response to Correct2". When I checked off Correct2 and Wrong1, I got "Response to Wrong4". I was in edit mode, preview as teacher and same thing happen when I was in as a student. It was consistant when I selected Correct2 and Wrong1.

I turned the display default answer off and on to see if that made a difference. Nope.

Thanks for post.

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In reply to Chris Collman

Re: Incorrect feedback behavior in the lesson module (Moodle 1.7)

by Dr S Bhatia -
Thank you Chris.
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In reply to Jan Balter

Re: Incorrect feedback behavior in the lesson module (Moodle 1.7)

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Hi Jan,

One sure way to get one's questions answered on the Moodle forums (as on any forum on the Web) is to give a maximum of details and concrete examples of one's problems (as pointed by Dr S Bhatia).

Anyway, here is an example demonstrating how the MCQ-multiple choice answer question type works in Moodle 1.6 (and, I expect, in 1.7).

Question Text: Which if these is an animal? Check one or more answers.
Multiple Choice - Multianswer
Answer 1: the cat
Response 1: Correct. You have found all the animals.
Jump 1: Next page
Answer 2: the dog
Response 2:
Jump 2: Next page
Answer 3: the tulip
Response 3: Wrong. You have either not selected all of the animals or you have selected things which are not animals. Try again.
Jump 3: This page
Answer 4: the crocodile
Response 4:
Jump 4: Next page
Answer 5: the computer
Response 5:
Jump 5: This page

When the program analyses the student's answer, there are only 2 possibilities:

  • all of the correct answers AND none of the incorrect ones have been selected
    • the student's answer is marked as correct
    • the feedback message ("Response") entered for the last expected correct answer in the sequence is displayed
  • none of the correct answers OR only some of them have been selected OR all of the correct answers have been selected AND at least one of the incorrect answers has been selected
    • the student's answer is marked as wrong
    • the feedback message ("Response") entered for the last expected wrong answer in the sequence is displayed

Because only one "wrong answer" Response message and only one "correct answer" Response message are used by the program, you should only enter one of each. If you enter only one of each, it does not matter whether you enter each message for the first or the last (or any other) correct/incorrect expected answer in the sequence.

If you enter more than one Response message for each correct/incorrect case, then you encounter the problem mentioned by you and by Chris in his reply.

Once you understand the system you realize that this is not a bug but "expected behavior" of this question type in the Lesson activity.

Hope that helps,

Joseph

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In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Incorrect feedback behavior in the lesson module (Moodle 1.7)

by Chris Collman -
Picture of Documentation writers
Joseph,
Excellent reply which sent me back to MoodleDocs. After your response, the answer seemed so obvious! As usual the program was being logical in its own world and my own world view needed an adjustment (multiple choice questions are sort of the exception, not the rule).

I sort of understood I was not thinking this through all the way, thus my example.
In short, different type of questions use jumps and responses differently.

And I or we still have some fine tuning to do in MoodleDocs. I think (don't know) that short answer and numeric questions also only have correct-wrong responses and jumps.

Thank you!
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In reply to Chris Collman

Re: Incorrect feedback behavior in the lesson module (Moodle 1.7)

by Jan Balter -

Hi Community,

THANK YOU ALL for your support and the answers to my question on this topic!!!

I appologize for not giving much more detailed information on my problem with the lesson module!

Thanks again especially to Joseph!!

Jan

 

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In reply to Jan Balter

Re: Incorrect feedback behavior in the lesson module (Moodle 1.7)

by Chris Collman -
Picture of Documentation writers
Jan,
It was a good post that provided me with an educational opportunity (thank you Dr. S for the suggestion about examples) which resulted in some new understandings (thank you again Joseph). There was also some feed back in Tracker from Mark on the subject of multianswer and I changed it from bug to improvement this morning.

Your post sent me to MoodleDocs where I discovered that you could not have found the answer . That is always one sign of a great post in my narrow world.

As a side note, I am not sure we have found the way to consistantly document THE answer but we are working on it. Some of us think it is "42" and others call it "fourty-two" (that is a joke). All kidding aside, thank you for your post it generated some good activity.

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In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Incorrect feedback behavior in the lesson module (Moodle 1.7)

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Coda.

My previous explanation of the workings of the MCQ, Multianswer question type in the Lesson module applies when - in the Lesson settings - Custom scoring: is set to No.

If Custom scoring is set to Yes, things are a little different and get more complicated.
Question Text: Which if these is an animal? Check one or more answers.
Multiple Choice - Multianswer
Answer 1: the cat
Response 1: Correct. You have found all the animals.
Jump 1: Next page Score:1
Answer 2: the dog
Response 2:
Jump 2: Next page Score:1
Answer 3: the tulip
Response 3: Wrong. You have either not selected all of the animals or you have selected things which are not animals. Try again.
Jump 3: This page Score:0
Answer 4: the crocodile
Response 4:
Jump 4: Next page Score:1
Answer 5: the computer
Response 5:
Jump 5: This page Score:0

Here you need to put the same, non-null score (Score > 0) into all of the correct answers. as in the example shown above. If you put a non-null Score for e.g. only the first correct answer, the student will get that Score but the "Wrong" feedback message will be displayed.sad If you put e.g. a score of 2 for correct answer #1 and a score of 3 for correct answer #2, if the student selects all the correct choices, he will get a grade of 2/3, etc.sad

Hope that helps people understand the rather complicated workings of the Lessson module.surprise

Joseph

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In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Incorrect feedback behavior in the lesson module (Moodle 1.7)

by Chris Collman -
Picture of Documentation writers
Thanks for your experience.

More techie writing talk. I see your elegant, least effort MAQ Custom Scoring On solution. How to explain that simply! If the rule is in any MAQ, all correct answers must have the same response, jump and score. And all wrong answers must have the same response, jump and score, then will the teacher get the desired result in either a case?

By the time I understand this, we will probably have MAQ with its own form (with just correct answers, wrong answer at the bottom, similar to Matching). approve

Chris


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In reply to Chris Collman

Re: Incorrect feedback behavior in the lesson module (Moodle 1.7)

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators
Hi Chris,
I agree that what is needed here is an interface similar to the Matching question type.
Joseph
PS.- I expect you mean MCQ.wink
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