Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Becky Tucker發表於
Number of replies: 27

Hello

How do I make the final grades visible for students after a course ends in a specific location, such as in the grades overview? Students can always visit their grade books when in a specific course. This is after the course closes, and they no longer have access to the course content, including the grade book. Students need to see all past grades they have achieved in their degree thus far.

Where can I make sure this is visible to all students?

Thank you

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In reply to Becky Tucker

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Howard Miller發表於
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It depends what you mean by "no longer have access to the course". If they don't have access to the course (you unenrolled them, the course is hidden or whatever) then they can't see the grades. If you don't have access to a course then you can't see the grades. I think that's logical.
 
If you want your users to have access to grades in a course, they need to stay enrolled. You may need to devise a more restrictive role for them so they can no longer do whatever it is you don't want them to do. 
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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Becky Tucker發表於

Thank you for responding, Howard.  Here is an example of a student's courses:

January Term- English 101

March Term- Math 101

May Term- Psychology 101

After each term, the courses are no longer visible to the students.  Therefore, they are unable to go back and review any grades or their final grade.  

The instructor completes all grades for the last week to submit the final student grade for the course, which goes to the Registrar Department.

Now, the student wants to go back and review their past grades but cannot.

My question is, does Moodle offer another location on Moodle itself when the student logs into Moodle that they can see all their final grades for all courses they have completed?

Example:

Somewhere under the Navigation Pane

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In reply to Becky Tucker

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Howard Miller發表於
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No. If a student is not enrolled in a course then they cannot see the grades for that course. There's no concept of a "final grade" somehow exported from a course.
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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Becky Tucker發表於
I mean, you do see my point, correct?

I have taught at many universities/colleges using other platforms like Canvas, BrightSpace, Blackboard, etc., and the students are no longer enrolled in the courses and do not have access to past courses, but they are always able to have the final grades shown on the student's page.

Are there any specific Plugins that may help?
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In reply to Becky Tucker

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Howard Miller發表於
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I do. As I mentioned above, one option is to create a new, restrictive role.
 
If you unenrol someone from a course, Moodle actually deletes all their grades (if you don't believe me, look at the logs in the database). It's doesn't delete the grade history, however. If a plugin doesn't exist (I can't think of one), one could be written. The first problem I can think of, is how do you know which courses to include if the students are no longer in them? You're kind of fighting against Moodle's view of the world. 
 
I'm assuming that you're unenrolling students. You haven't actually said what you do at the "end" of a course.  

This has always been a limitation of Moodle. It's is very course-centred. There isn't much that works "across" courses.
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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Becky Tucker發表於
Hi Howard

No, we never unenroll any students because, as mentioned here, all grades are gone. We have to keep track of all the work any student completes. The courses have start and end times that align with the term. The end time is set to the end of the term. At that time, the course is not visible to the student. All information is still there; we do not unenroll any student. We have archived and backed up these courses to remove them from the system from years past.

Thank you for all the information everyone is sharing. I genuinely appreciate it.
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In reply to Becky Tucker

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Howard Miller發表於
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The end time of a course does NOT stop it being visible to the student. So, something strange is going on.

All the end time does is put it in the "past courses" tab in course listings.
 
Perhaps we should have cleared this point up before the lengthy discussion started 微笑 
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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Becky Tucker發表於

I am unsure; all I can tell you is how it is set up. We have start dates and end dates. As soon as the end date comes, the student cannot access the course and can no longer see any of their grades or the final grade.

What settings do you suggest that would allow them to see the grades only but not be able to go in and make any changes?

Thank you

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In reply to Becky Tucker

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Shirley Gregorczyk發表於
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How do you know the grades are gone?
If I execute a Grade History report, even for non-active students and courses, using the data range criteria I see grades.
Kind Regards
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In reply to Shirley Gregorczyk

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Becky Tucker發表於
I can see the grades, and any administration can see the grades, but the student is not able to view the course or its contents after the end date.
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In reply to Becky Tucker

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Bob Gilmore發表於
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As Howard has mentioned, this is not how the course end date works (or, at least, is supposed to work, see https://docs.moodle.org/404/en/Course_settings#Course_end_date).  For my courses, courses past the close date can still be accessed via the Past or All options on the My Courses page:

I'm not doubting that its happening to you! There are several means to hide a course from students, but the fact students can see the course until the end date is reached implies it's not any of those.

What are the students seeing when they try to access a course that is past it's end date?

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In reply to Becky Tucker

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Visvanath Ratnaweera發表於
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Along the same lines what Bob wrote above: Is it a problem if the students not only see their grades but also see the content once the course is over? In my field it is the opposite. A foundational subject done in the first semester could be relevant even in the eight semester (or hopefully after graduation too).

Of course active participation in a finished course is not welcome. That needs to be blocked at the Activities level, using features like Common_module_settings#Availability, Restrict_access_settings.
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Shirley Gregorczyk發表於
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Perhaps the students were suspended from the course participation?
https://docs.moodle.org/404/en/Unenrolment
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In reply to Shirley Gregorczyk

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Visvanath Ratnaweera發表於
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Hi Shirley

Likely that we are not talking of the same thing. I am not talking of how to salvage OP's past semester rather to see whether small modifications to her present workflow would make her next semester behave the way she wants.

I know that there are different solutions to the problem - a couple of them were already suggested in this thread. The line I am following in this sub-thread is, whether a small change in the course administration would make in the short term, during the coming (6-month long) long semesters, allow the students to see their (detailed) grades in the finished courses without changing anything in them. Once the semester is over the final grades flow in to the SIS, therefore the courses may be permanently closed.

In fact, I am looking for something similar myself. Will start a new thread soon - without muddying this thread.
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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Visvanath Ratnaweera發表於
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> Moodle actually deletes all their grade

Unenrolling from a course is one thing, Moodle also allows taking out all the roles a participant has in a course without unenrolling him from the course! I know, it is an abstract construction. I wonder whether that deletes the grades.
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In reply to Becky Tucker

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Visvanath Ratnaweera發表於
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Hi Becky

For a long-term solution one has to lean back and observe the underlying process. You've started with "make the final grades visible for students after a course ends in a specific location, such as in the grades overview". I imagine that is what we called the "report" in our British oriented schools. Pl. read, "A report card, or just report in British English – sometimes called a progress report or achievement report – communicates a student's performance academically. In most places, the report card is issued by the school to the student or the student's parents once to four times yearly." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report_card.

If it is the one you are looking for, the Moodle core doesn't have an equivalent. As Howard already mentioned the basic building block of the Moodle world is the Course. Students earn marks during a course. So the Grader report as Moodle calls it, belongs to the course. I know, I am arguing for the Moodle world, once you've lived there for some time, it all becomes logical. Specific to the grader report, it is very granular, I can have hundreds of graded activities in a course, the teacher sees a magnificient matrix of ( students x grades ) within each course.

What you are looking for is an _aggregation_ of the final mark earned in each course, therefore a report card. Now you have to study the arsenal of tools in an around Moodle for that. Apart from the possibilities already mentioned the reporting branch of Moodle is a place to look. Do a web search on "report card moodle custom reports plug-in", for example. Or, I hear that the latest Moodle versions (4.3, 4.4) brought the reporting powers of Moodle to another level. So the others may add their findings. I move from LTS to LTS, still at 4.1 LTS, so uninformed.

Or, I know institutions where the end-of-term and end-of-study reports are handled by their student information system (SIS). When a (Moodle) course comes to an end, the teachers submit the marks to the SIS.

No point in arguing, "I have been to many countries in the world. The highway signs of all decent countries are green", if you are in Germany. Their highway signs are blue!
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Howard Miller發表於
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As an aside, I've been losing what's left of my hair working on a substantial plugin for Moodle to handle advanced grading and aggregation specific to our instituion (automating our administrative tasks that currently are done outside of Moodle). But the final destination of the grades is our student record system.

Also, just thinking about it, we make a point of leaving students enrolled in old courses so they can refer back to them. We created a role called "revision student" that restricts their ability to take part in activities when they may be mixed with newer students. That's rare because courses are generally recreated for each year/cohort.
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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Visvanath Ratnaweera發表於
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> But the final destination of the grades is our student record system.

I can understand that some users want Moodle to be their student information system too. In my opinion Moodle is already trying to be many things. Trying to be everything is a recipe for failure.

> we make a point of leaving students enrolled in old courses so they can refer back to them

In the short to medium term, say during an academic year, or three to four academic years until graduation, this may be a workable solution. One thing the teachers and some administrators should know is that a running Moodle is not a true (legally valid) long-term archive.
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Becky Tucker發表於
That's so true. We want a one-stop shopping experience and have Moodle be the solution. Our final grades are sent to the Registrar, and they are maintained in the system outside of Moodle.

The problem is that when these courses are finished, the students start emailing, wanting to know where they can find their final grades. It is unreasonable for one individual to be responsible for hundreds of calls, emails, and Moodle messages each term to locate students' final grades when an easy fix is to have them situated for students to see whenever they choose.
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In reply to Becky Tucker

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Ken Task發表於
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Question: what software is your entity using for the student information system (SIS)?  That's the official 'gradebook' as well as credits towards degrees etc.   Does your SIS have something already that you want your moodle to do?

Setting up a course with altered user rolls so they can see but not participate again is a 'forever' course, is it not?   What do you think they are most interested in when accessing - do we know?

'SoS', Ken

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In reply to Ken Task

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Ken Task發表於
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2 cents more ... just remembered something ...

Many moons ago there was a poster that had a question about restoring courses. In a side discussion with the user, found out that where they taught, the entity  cranked up a new moodle every term ... like lms2024-25.topleavel.domain
The previous term moodle - lms2023-24.toplevel.domain was put into a read only mode.

Teachers could make no user backups of their courses and could restore to currently active moodle.  Students could still login to all past terms moodles where they had credentials - read only - they could view only - nothing interactive (like forums, etc.)

The entity kept 5 servers like that and when a server reached 6 years old, that server was archived and taken off line (records retention policy).

Another thought for students who have finished a course ... their authentication in that course was set to external DB ... could be the SIS on the backend or even the same DB server as active site ... a role was setup for externally authenticated students - read only - they could still their old courses - but not participate - hidden from other active students.

That does have some issues if students enroll in courses offered in current term.

As I said ... 2 cents more!

'SoS', Ken

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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Becky Tucker發表於
I hear you about the Plugins. It would be nice if this all worked together smoothly, but I also understand this is Moodle.
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Becky Tucker發表於
Yes, it would be equivalent to a report card. It is the final grade college students receive after the term/semester ends.

That information is sent to the Registrar and can be requested by students at the end of their degrees via transcripts.

My goal is to provide final grades for students throughout their degree. They should have a specific place where they can see all completed courses and their final grades.
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In reply to Becky Tucker

Re: Final Grades Version 4.2.6+

由Bob Gilmore發表於
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Would a custom report do what you're looking for?

  • Site Admin > Reports > Custom Reports > New Report
  • The source is Course Participants ( I don't have access to 4.2.6 to be sure this data sources is available there )

  • In the report builder, I've added Course > Full name and Course Completion > Grade then aggregated the grade 
  • Set a condition to User > Select User > Current User

image.png

  • Switch to the audience tab and add Site > All users

image%20%281%29.png

Learners can then access the reports by Clicking their profile and choosing reports

image%20%282%29.png

This learner really needs to do some work!

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