Accessibility: Moodle Forums

Accessibility: Moodle Forums

by Anthony Forth -
Number of replies: 3

Further to the work co-ordinated by my Open University colleague Nick Freear (documented and discussed in his earlier post), we have a need to utilise the forums module for some of our courses long term, which raises for us the same issues previously discussed by Nick re accessibility.

The main two specific tasks I want to undertake in the forums are module are the replacement of layout tables with CSS and the introduction of hidden skip links for forum posts.

I am intending to undertake and commit this work during w/c 24 April.

Hopefully, particularly given the benefit of Nicks experience, this will be relatively straightforward, but please let me know any thoughts or concerns you might have.

Anthony

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In reply to Anthony Forth

Re: Accessibility: Moodle Forums

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Make it look exactly the same as it does now, or better (in all four modes), and test, test, test before committing. smile

My major concern (and this is a big one) is that user content will much more easily be able to spill over and ruin the page. Tables have a nice side-effect of containing bad code quite well, but I think divs will be too forgiving.
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In reply to Anthony Forth

Re: Accessibility: Moodle Forums

by David Scotson -

Is this to be a short-term change intended for 1.6 or for the longer term?

You mention concerns so I suppose I should mention that I'm always concerned about accessibility changes that see removing tables as a primary goal rather than a side-effect of larger changes. Much like 'table-free web designs' that were in vogue a few years ago, it seems like a strangely focussed technical accomplishment to trumpet in the context of a big, fuzzy, ongoing user-experience challenge.

The fabulous, though slightly dated, dive into accessibility by Mark Pilgrim makes basically no mention of layout tables amongst its many recommendations, suggesting only that they be made to linearize properly and are given empty table summaries (see day 19: Using real table headers in particular the A very important note about layout tables section, and day 20: Providing a summary for tables, the layout tables: how to do it section).

Joe Clark's Building Accessible Websites, especially Chapter 10, Tables and Frames, comes out strongly against the demonisation of layout tables with comments such as:

Theyre not per se inaccessible. Theres a misconception that adaptive technology cannot read and understand tables. In fact, all major screen readers (on Windows, at least: OutSpoken on Macintosh is an exception) have specific commands for navigation inside tables. Since screen readers can also drive Braille displays, table-based layouts are accessible even to deaf-blind visitors. Layout tables pose surprisingly few access barriers.

I realize that the web has moved on since these things were written, and that CSS layouts have always been able to do some amazing things that Internet Explorer has finally caught up with, but I have to confess to some surprise at the focus on removing tables for accessibility reasons when there's so many other things to be done.

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Re: Accessibility: Moodle Forums

by Anthony Forth -
I take a lot of your points, and I agree 100% that accessibility is a long-term, often hard to define and implement, goal to improve inclusivity.   I don't believe the changes I make will takes us from 'disaster' to  'perfection', they are a step on the road. 

I don't  see removing tables as my primary aim, I see improving the quality of what we offer for particular groups of users, without disadvantaging the main body of users, as my primary aim.   Removing  tables is a way of achieving this.

One of the main benefits for me of going down the css route is that it provides a reasonably well defined and researched set of tools and techniques, about which there is a large degree of consensus, for providing a better quality product.  At the end of the day, I am not in a position to do the kind of research needed to prove or disprove a particular approach.  It also allows us to address the regulatory issues that exist.

Anthony




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