Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Ken Task -
Number of replies: 24
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

3.9.highest ... boost theme
File Types
.avi
.mov
.mp4
.wmv
all have icons that are associated with those file types.

In a Sampler moodle course, the section for videos

39 icons











In a 4.0.highest ... boost theme
Same course ...

40 moodle














As you can see, all the associated icons for file types are now displaying the same one and those are a generic which don't reflect the mimetype of the file linked.

Better UX? sad

Is this a bug ... debugging doesn't show anything ... the same file type associations exist in the 4.0+ admin interface.

Anyone else seeing same?

'SoS', Ken

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In reply to Ken Task

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Dominique Palumbo -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers
Hi,
just my two cents.

In the folder activity (Moodle 4.0) the files inside have the mime/type icon.

Dominique.
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In reply to Dominique Palumbo

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Interesting ... don't have a folder in that Samples course.   Will try that with all the same files contained therein (what a pain in arse!).  So to organize that folder, with yet other folders ... like videos, audios, etc. :|

And for users ... two more clicks! sad

Thanks!

'SoS', Ken

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In reply to Ken Task

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Matthias Giger -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

In the administration settings for the file plugin, you have to activitate the show type setting.



Afterwards, you can activate the setting in an individual file resource.

After that, the file type is shown in the course.

For people who use visual clues definitely worse than the different icons used before and for teachers with already existing courses with many different file types a lot of additional work. Maybe a plugin like Mass action could come to the rescue.

I will definitely have to do go through a lot of courses to  make sure my students know what resources they are dealing with. My guess is that the UI development team mainly had courses in mind where the main file type is the typical PDF which we only use occaisonally and as one of many different file types.

From my perspective, not being able to easily see what file type I am dealing with is a bug.

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Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
> not being able to easily see what file type I am dealing with is a bug.

Is a feature for the beauty makers, apparently.
sad
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In reply to Matthias Giger

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

@Matthias Giger

Thanks ... checked all that/those.

No change.

Re-uploaded a zip file ... new resource to file link.

In the select files box where the file is uploaded I can see the correct Icon.

Save and return to course.  I do see the file info ... the (zip).  Guess user will now have to practice 'RATS' ... 'read all the screen'!!!!  Icon would be better, IMHO!

No icon change.  Same blue icon. sad

Was looking for a short name in an array that I might be able to use in config.php of site to force the desired behavior site wide, but not found that either!

Forced theme to Classic ... no change.

Am inclined to agree ... it is a *bug*! :|

Good thing this is on a 'Tinker' site and not one in production!  Wonder what I looks like in mobile or an iPad.

'SoS', Ken

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In reply to Ken Task

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers
I did a little experimenting on my Moodles. In 3.11, a URL link to an Excel file shows an Excel icon. Not so in 4.0.

I can see all the icons associated with the file extension, but the icons don't seem to be used. Yes, I too wonder if this is a bug?
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In reply to Matthias Giger

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Randy Thornton -
Picture of Documentation writers
"From my perspective, not being able to easily see what file type I am dealing with is a bug."

I agree. Mime types and their icons are well known constant symbols across the net and have been for many years. Not using these or taking them away is a bug.

Probably a deliberate bug to make things look pretty but in the process students lose valuable information to help them navigate the page.
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Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Dominique Palumbo -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers
Hi,

It's maybee for consistensy reasons.
All activities show there icon.
But for the file activity a smaller (24px) mime type icon could be added after the file size ?

Dominique.
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In reply to Dominique Palumbo

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Dominique Palumbo -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers
I made a little test (crappy not genuine).

->function resource_get_optional_details($resource, $cm) {
line 334 of file /mod/resource/locallib.php
global $DB, $OUTPUT;

line 377 of file /mod/resource/locallib.php
if ($infodisplayed > 1) {
    $image = $OUTPUT->image_url(file_mimetype_icon($filedetails['mimetype']));
    $details = get_string("resourcedetails_{$langstring}", 'resource',
    (object)array('size' => $size, 'type' => "<img src='".$image."'> ".$type, 'date' => $date));
} else {
    // Only one of size, type and date is set, so just append.
    $details = $size . $type . $date;
}


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In reply to Dominique Palumbo

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Matt Bury -
Picture of Plugin developers
Nice idea Dominique! I can see the desire to keep downloadable file icons consistent but I think they could achieve visual consistency without losing useful info. How about overlaying the smaller filetype icon over the generic downloadable file icon, e.g. at the bottom right corner?
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In reply to Dominique Palumbo

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Nathan Lind -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
While I appreciate the suggestion to tweak CSS to get the small icons to be prepended to the file type, I see a couple issues:
  1. The Excel/Word/PDF icons are quite small
  2. The large blue icons look like many other activities and resources
  3. The wording of "Excel 2007" or "Word 2007" feels like we are using really old file formats (yes, I know 2007 is the newest, just don't need to make that so noticable)
  4. Not everyone has the ability/permission to modify their Moodle instance to try this workaround. 

Still hoping File icons could show the actual file type, as they have for more than a decade. 


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In reply to Ken Task

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Dominique Bauer -
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I don't think it's for beauty. It's just the new trend. We see these tasteless icons more and more on the internet.

The thread comments are interesting but I doubt anyone in UX will read them. To the moderators, Mary and Howard: don't you think the discussion should be moved to the "User Experience (UX)" forum?

But obviously the UX folks worked so hard to produce these mundane icons. In my humble opinion, there is little chance that they will modify them or take any comments whatsoever.
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Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Mary Cooch -
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The User Experience (UX) is a different course, not forum. but you are welcome to start/continue  a discussion on there.
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Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
OK, OK. The teachers are here. The developers are there. The UX is somewhere else.

Talking of teachers, does the UX teach at all? Worth taking a look at "Redesigned Themes for Usability in Moodle 4.0" https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=434187#p1747046.

@Mary, I know, you worked with the UX team. But you are a single person, the teachers around Moodle is a huge and diverse crowd.

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Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Dominique Bauer -
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All I see are red spots with a small wiggly sign inside:


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In reply to Dominique Bauer

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Funny. I see FORUM, FORUM, FORUM, ad nauseam.

Something else. I can't believe, nobody sees those differing space, with text and without text.
Attachment Formulas_20220506_0110_pruned.png
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The (all caps) display of activity/resource type

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Sorry for bringing a different topic, the (all caps) display of activity/resource type. Now there is a tracker issue on that, MDL-75204. Please vote!
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In reply to Dominique Bauer

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Confess I don't 'surf' aimlessly like I used to - more targeted and for a purpose.

"We see these tasteless icons more and more on the internet"

Could you provide some examples?

I did a little research on ISO standards related to mimetypes and icons.   There are, of course, the mimetype definitions, but when it comes to icons ... no ISO standard set of icons.   What I saw the most ... an icon but with the three letter extension in caps across/layered on top of the icon.    So, as an example, a 'color' background with TXT for a .txt file.

Also noticed in that UX course a survey results PDF ... what one gets from a survey really dependent upon those to take the time to take it.   Students?  Students of different age levels ... that would have been nice, but, obviously, responses came from folks that used Moodle - as teacher, as admin (not so much), or as a manager.

Wonder how a 6th grader or an Elementary School Teacher would have responded.

The reason I got into this ... on a K12 Moodle site (prior to pendemic) that was loosing interest with Elementary/Intermediate teachers, saw an Elementary School Teacher trying out her new IPad and using Apple's Office Suite docs - which wasn't quite working as smoothly as she wanted.   She didn't communicate with me directly, above was an observation on my part.   So I embarked on setting up  mimetypes with Apple Office Suite icons.   Took about a day ... got it to work as expected but too late.   Teacher already moved on ... never to return. sad 

BTW, that site ... now it's only a few HS teachers using and primarily as a Quiz machine.  ISD has Google Edu and many have moved to Google Classroom.

'Another one bites the dust!' sad

"there is little chance that they will modify them or take any comments whatsoever"

I would hope that's not the case ... maybe providing an option to use old behavior.  When developers stop listening ... it won't be long before users leave - never to return! 

'SoS', Ken

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In reply to Ken Task

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Matt Bury -
Picture of Plugin developers
Yes, agree totally. It's the old mantra, "You are not the user." The vast majority of people don't know what a file extension is & the last time I looked, Windows hides them by default, preferring to show a graphical icon. That seems to be how most of our users navigate. We should give them signs that they can recognise effortlessly so that the UI/UX/EX/or whatever is as transparent as it can be, especially for novice users of Moodle.
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In reply to Ken Task

Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Mark Sharp -
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Two things have happened in M4.0.

  1. The coursemoduleinfo->icon is no longer set by the resource activity (so defaults to Moodle's white icon)
  2. if you put back in the coursemoduleinfo->icon, it will be white-washed because of a filter.

mod/resource/lib.php:229 was removed in M4

$info->icon = file_file_icon($mainfile, 24);
CSS making black svgs white:
.activityiconcontainer.content .activityicon, .activityiconcontainer.content .icon {
    filter: brightness(0) invert(1);
}

To fix this you would need to re-add the icon line, and do something about the css.


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Re: Difference 3.9.highest vs 4.0+ Icons

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Reminds me the cottage industry that popped after the new repository technology emerged in Moodle 2.0. If one to learn from history, we are witnessing the coming of another new normal.
big grin

Also being discussed "Redesigned Themes for Usability in Moodle 4.0" https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=434187#p1747046 amoung many other.
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