Automatically turn off event in "Upcoming Events" when task is "checked off"

Automatically turn off event in "Upcoming Events" when task is "checked off"

by Rick Jerz -
Number of replies: 8
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I looked around but could find anything on either Moodle.org or Tracker about this idea.

A student suggested that it would be nice if an assignment (anything with a due date, such as quizzes, assignments, and forums) be automatically turned off when a task has been complete.  The calendar item would remain, but just the task as shown in the Upcoming Events block would be removed.

In Moodle 4.0, activity completion has been improved.  When all activity completion events are finished, I think this would be a good time to turn off the item in "Upcoming Events."

Also, I think that this should be a course setting, and perhaps a setting that the student could also modify.

This seems like a good idea.  Any thoughts?


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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Automatically turn off event in "Upcoming Events" when task is "checked off"

by Randy Thornton -
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I agree, Rick.

if you have finished something, then it is no longer Upcoming: it is Done.

I suppose, the question is whether this block is nothing more than a view into the calendar items or whether it is supposed to help manage items to do. I think the later is more useful since you can already see what is upcoming on the calendar itself. But it was not built to do that; instead it's just a particular kind of calendar view.

Related observation of 4.0 Timeline block proposals over here.
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In reply to Randy Thornton

Re: Automatically turn off event in "Upcoming Events" when task is "checked off"

by Rick Jerz -
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Thanks for some ideas, Randy. Yes, maybe a part of Timeline.

The problem, of course, is that different "data" in Moodle can serve different purposes, and also that there are "interconnections."

I have wondered, "How would upcoming events know that the student is finished with a task?" There seems to be two possible ways, and these depend upon how the "activity completion" within Moodle 4.0 gets implemented.

The simple answer is "When all completion criteria are completed, mean all "green."

The next issue is (as I have described in my MDL-71856) "When everything is complete, and the instructor has graded all manually graded items." I think this mirrors Moodle 4.0, in that even if the student submits, for example, a quiz that contains essay questions, it is not considered complete by Moodle. Furthermore, this item might remain incomplete for several weeks, waiting for that "slow" instructor to complete their grading tasks.

Or, I think that if Moodle 4.0 includes the ability for students to manually check off items (perhaps in addition to other automatic criteria), when the student manually does a check-off, the task is removed from Upcoming Events, but not from the Calendar. This is my preference right now.
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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Automatically turn off event in "Upcoming Events" when task is "checked off"

by Randy Thornton -
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Rick,

Interesting that you say this:

"the student submits, for example, a quiz that contains essay questions, it is not considered complete by Moodle. Furthermore, this item might remain incomplete for several weeks, waiting for that "slow" instructor to complete their grading tasks."

because there was a just a question about how to get something a "progress in grading" bar for students to know who grading is going: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=427801.

Clearly those are related ideas. I think that is an interesting request: because when I was teaching brick and mortar, I would always start the class with the status of things waiting to be graded. There's a whole lot of rooooom between submission and completion: which is something that really on the Assignment module supports, but even it doesn't give the student a progress status. Not to even mention things like Forum and Glossary or Lesson or Quizzes with essays, etc.

Anyway, back to the main topic. I think there's a lot of conflation in the Calendar (and Upcoming) and Timeline block of concepts that should be distinct. I have used the David Allen GTD method for years, so this is something I work with every day. Basically, there's things to do and things to know.

Things I have to do:
- What do I have do next? (Where am I in each course and what is the next thing I need to do)
- What do I have to do on or by a particular date? (due dates, key course dates, what business folks call "ticklers")

Things I have to know:
- What is the progress of things I am waiting on? (eg Teacher grading, Group submissions, incomplete Assignments & progress on the completion of other activities)
- What other dates do I need to know about but I don't have to do anything? (Eg, Holidays, End of term, etc)


So, I would agree with you what you say that "when the student manually does a check-off, the task is removed from Upcoming Events, but not from the Calendar." since Upcoming would really be a good place to have "Things I need to do next (dated or not)" rather having the Calendar, which should be for dated things only.

For years I have heard complaints about Moodle from students like "What do I do next? What's due next? Where did I leave off?" -- It is really hard to figure that out from the Moodle what those things actually are as a student (or a teacher, eg, what do I have to grade next?). Next, next, next, not All, all, all.

Personally, I think the UX could benefit a lot from the approaches that task management software use. It's all about focus and the Moodle user experience is not about that: I mean we still have Topics as the default; course builders and course managers and course students all see the same interface even though they are doing entirely different tasks; a student doesn't see on entering a course exactly what they have to do next, etc.

I'm guess not so sanguine that the 4.0 course and activity view changes are really going to help that much with this since they seem to me to be conceptually muddled. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having these much needed conversations about Upcoming and Timeline. But it's too late for 4.0 to really address this: code freeze started over a week ago.
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In reply to Randy Thornton

Re: Automatically turn off event in "Upcoming Events" when task is "checked off"

by Rick Jerz -
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You have provided a lot of thoughts, Randy, and it appears that we are thinking along the same lines.

I might be the odd one out, here, but I always grade anything that was due (last night) immediately the next day. So I don't need any reminders. With this method, students also know their grades, within a day. I also don't use essay questions much, but when I do, I grade these regularly. For "Assignments," I grade these after the evening that they are due. So when I hear an instructor saying "I need help knowing what I have not graded" my thoughts are "Really? Aren't you the teacher?"

I think that we both agree that the checkbox is a great way for students to keep track of where they are, and I am still thinking that (in my courses) a manual checkbox is the way to go. And I do like that when a student checks off a manual box, if that item happens to be in Upcoming Events, that that item disappears for this student. But as you mention, leaving it in the Calendar lets the student "know" that there was an assignment. I am one who never removes events from my ongoing personal calendar, for example.

Davo's "checklist" plugin, which I use, lets students add their own items. This could be a good place for students to keep their own notes about what they need or want to do in a course.

On my weekly "Resources and Assignments" web page, I give students a step-by-step outline of what to do, like this example.

Yes, 4.0 now has a code freeze, so these ideas will probably have to wait until 4.1 or later, unless someone wants to make a big splash.
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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Automatically turn off event in "Upcoming Events" when task is "checked off"

by Randy Thornton -
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Rick, as usual, we are on the same page.

Ten years ago, when I worked in Sakai, the dashboard had this feature. Students and Teacher knew what was the next thing to do and could go right to it. Moodle has most of the parts to do that, including easily constructing a direct url to a specific activity and knowledge of course order and activity completion.

We also know where the student left off, which is, however in the logs and not in the last user access information, which only has the course, not the module. If the last module used was stored there too, then it would be easy to have that be on a block in the dashboard. Then clicking it would take the student to the next thing to do.

Timeline and Upcoming are okay for planning some things, but we have to do things that have no dates on them. In a self-paced world - that is, an increasingly large portion of the world today - NOTHING may have dates. Relying on absolute dates is relic of brick and mortar mind and industrial pedagogy.

Now that the Activity completion checkboxes have been summarily destroyed, the most valuable guide for a student on where they are and what they have to do next is gone.

Checklist is a really nice module. I have always thought it was good. It is very good for self-paced but if you make it hard to use because you have created an onerous burden for a student to figure out exactly what they have completed (especially in long courses of many months or years), all that has been accomplished is making extra administrative busywork. Busywork is the computer's job.
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In reply to Randy Thornton

Re: Automatically turn off event in "Upcoming Events" when task is "checked off"

by Rick Jerz -
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Yes, "Now that the Activity completion checkboxes have been summarily destroyed...". I am hoping that my Tracker request continues getting votes.

What we are seeing is a difference between when a student thinks they are done, and the teacher (or Moodle) thinking they are done. These two perspectives are not always in perfect match. Oh well.  🤔
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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Automatically turn off event in "Upcoming Events" when task is "checked off"

by Randy Thornton -
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Or: when the student thinks they are done, when the teacher thinks they are done, when Moodle thinks they are done.

I keep thinking somewhere in here is the making of presentation we should do together in Helena, don't you think? "My completion isn't complete!" or "Completion is not what you think" or "I'm Complete, You're Not Complete" or "To Complete or Not to complete? That is the question" or "Zeno's Paradox of Moodle Completion" ;)
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In reply to Randy Thornton

Re: Automatically turn off event in "Upcoming Events" when task is "checked off"

by Rick Jerz -
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Yes, great suggestions, Randy. I don't know if MountainMoot will be "live" next year. If it is, I will likely be there.

Hopefully, by next summer, we will know more about where this "completion" issue will end up with Moodle 4.x.

Relative to the "teaching thinks they are done," with the checkbox that allowed students to checkoff that they were done, this checkbox might also serve the instructor since it shows when logged in as an instructor. Of course, it's a bit harder to do if a course has multiple instructors.
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