Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Rick Jerz -
Number of replies: 12
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The new "Activity Completion" methods in Moodle 3.11 can bring some interesting problems for Quizzes.  As we know, some folks have complained that students must "Finish attempt," then "Submit all and Finish," and finally one more "Submit all and finish" for the quiz to be submitted.

But now we have another interesting twist, perhaps an issue.

The scenario is that I allow unlimited attempts to most of my quizzes.  The only person who really knows that they are "done" is the student, so all that I allow in Activity Completion is "Students can manually mark the activity as completed."  Of course, the quiz is done when the due date passes.

Look at this figure below, which is how Moodle 3.11 shows a new button for "Mark as Done."  Notice that the student clicked on the box to let Moodle know that they are "Done."  But if you look carefully, you will see that Moodle shows "Continue the last attempt."

What happened here is that the student did not complete all the steps to submit their quiz, but they did click on "Mark as Done," probably think that if they say they are done, the quiz is submitted!

In Moodle 3.10, these "Mark as Done" buttons were not present, so students didn't see this "Mark as Done" button within the quiz.  The checkboxes for activity completion were at the course level, not within an activity.

So we have another interesting problem, meaning more confusion, for Quizzes using Mark as Done.  Students might want to click on the "Mark as Done" button instead of the lengthier quiz submittal process. (How's this for confusion, Tim?)

I am not sure how to suggest solving this problem.  It becomes part of my MDL-71856 feature request to go back to the older checkbox approach.  I never had this problem prior to Moodle 3.11.  Your thoughts?


Attachment Quiz-Mark_as_Done.png
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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Dominique Bauer -
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Hello Rick,

I know you're talking to Tim, and I'm hesitant to get into the conversation. I will therefore be brief. I hope Tim will answer you even though I intervened.

Students might be less confused if the [Mark as done] button did not appear when the [Continue the last attempt] button is displayed simultaneously on the same activity page. While waiting for any suggestions to be accepted, the problem could perhaps be fixed temporarily with a script (which, for example, would take 5 minutes to write and 5 minutes to implement for the solution I am proposing).
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In reply to Dominique Bauer

Re: Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Rick Jerz -
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Nope, talking to you and everyone else, Dominique. So far, you are the only one listening. You have also provided some good feedback, too.

The "Mark as Done" does not appear while a student is into the quiz, only upon entry. But the troublesome point is that some students might forget to submit their quiz. When they return to the quiz, this is where the problem exists. They see (in my screenshot) two buttons. One button says "continue the last attempt" and the other says "Mark as done." If the student wants to complete their submittal, which button do you think they will click on? My guess is "Mark as Done."

I can add some CSS to my Boost theme to remove these "Mark as done" buttons. I am trying to alert folks about this new problem that can exist.

Hope this makes some sense.
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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Rick Jerz -
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The css that I added to eliminate these "Mark as Done" buttons is shown below. This is a pretty brute force ways of doing this. I think it will remove all the activity completion text from what 3.11 added. However, for me, it does the job. I have implemented this css in my current courses and will let you know if it creates any other problems.

The biggest problem that I see is that the Moodle 3.10 checkboxes were separated from activities, on the main course page, so I think it was easier to explain to students that these checkboxes were there for them to keep track of progress.  However, when the "Mark as done" buttons are being used, they imply some "action," especially when they are shown within the activity.  

.activity-information { display:none; }
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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Shirley Gregorczyk -
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This will be a huge problem for sites with annual training requirements. As it is now, they open the Previous Attempts and resubmit a previous attempt. We had to add CSS to remove the Summary of Previous Attempts list.
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In reply to Shirley Gregorczyk

Re: Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Rick Jerz -
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Okay, Shirley. So you make me feel better that I am not the only one in the (Moodle) world concerned about this issue. Thanks.
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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Tim Hunt -
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I agree there is potential confusion here, but I don't have strong feelings about what the solution might be. This was a change made by the Moodle UX team, consistently across all activity types, and for good reasons. I would be interested in any thoughts they have about this.
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In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Rick Jerz -
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My feeling is that a button with "Mark as Done," perhaps is misleading. Using the older (pre-Moodle 3.11) methods, a "checkbox" is different than a button saying "Mark as Done." So I have two suggestions to offer. 1) Use the words "Check off" instead of "Mark as done. 2) Use the old checkbox icon and don't put any words on it.

My Tracker feature request to add back in the checkboxes is getting quite long. I mention that in my Moodle I disable all the activity completion information within the activity or resource. But this is just me.
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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Dominique Bauer -
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Everyone knows what a check mark in a box means. No need to add the word "Done" next to the check mark. There is also no need to put the words "Mark as done" in an empty check box. This is is done for fools.

These huge check boxes and all these other lines obscure the content of the page. The emphasis is on the container at the expense of the content. This is obviously very amateurish.

The check boxes were fine the way they were.
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In reply to Dominique Bauer

Re: Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Rick Jerz -
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I made some additional comments in the Tracker item. I am proposing that checkboxes be reinstated and that the icons be expanded a little. This graphic shows one way that checkboxes might appear. I would imagine that you, Dominique, can appreciate a student submitting their quiz, which has essay questions in it, saying "I am done with this quiz. Now the instructor needs to grade it." So this student would check that they are done, yet until the box goes green, the student (and instructor) would know that the final steps have not been completed.
Attachment rj-An_Idea_for_Activity_Completion_Icons.jpg
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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Dominique Bauer -
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Everyone knows what a check mark in a box means. No need to add the word "Done" next to the check mark. There is also no need to put the words "Mark as done" in an empty check box. This is is done for fools.

No, it's not made for fools, it's made for high school kids who might not know what a check mark in a box means and for whom it may be necessary to spell out instructions.

Since high school kids are probably a large part of Moodle users, I think these are the good reasons Tim referred to.

Still, it's a bit of a shame that people who know what a tick in a box means are overlooked.

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In reply to Dominique Bauer

Re: Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Garth Brady -
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I also am a fan of minimizing the UX... It's very difficult to keep things neat and tidy when delivering content online (especially for our low-level learners who already struggle to read and are easily overwhelmed by text). To me, a checkbox with a tooltip is superior to a 'To do: Receive a grade' (etc). The visual options as proposed by Rick above are heartily seconded by me smile
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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Activity Completion 3.11, Mark as Done, Quiz Submittal Problem

by Louisa van der Linden -
After Tim's comment I feel the conversation veered a bit to the general "Mark as done" conversation: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=429960#p1730952

I want to add my voice to the quiz landing page interface being confusing, the same applies to the Assignment. For me it's confusing in every scenario where steps/work/actions are required from the learner. So I agree.

I've also learned through reading Rick's huge tracker that people use the concept of "Mark as Done" for very different reasons. Having had checkboxes for many years, use cases and processes have grown and become established, these are all affected.
In Rick's case, the Manual Mark as Done Completion is a learner keeping "their own" list/track of what they've done (since only they know) - so I can understand why the quiz is then confusing. With most of our clients, they use the automated conditions wherever possible/available and leave the student to mark something themselves only when it's perhaps a task outside of the LMS (so the LMS won't know if it's been done). Bottom line is that the manual checkbox was used in different scenarios in different industries, age groups, concepts and the big change had a huge knock-on effect incl. this quiz/assignment confusion.

Finally I agree with Tim's comment of 6-Sept.

Side Note Design wise: I also agree with Garth Brady "minimizing the UI" is of utmost importance, esp. to achieve professional, pleasing and usable interfaces. (Coming from people in the advertising world and qualified UX people, not myself)

I'll comment on the other discussion on the bigger activity completion issue at hand.
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