Overdue attempt accepted and graded

Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Francis Feytout -
Number of replies: 12

Hi, 

I'm on v3.7 but I have noticed this problem on older versions. 

I was led to believe that (for quizzes with time limit on) overdue attempts were automatically submitted or rejected once the timer ran out. At least, that's what the doc says. 

I have numerous example of this. Those screenshots for example are for a 1h time limit and those attempts are grated with over 30 minutes overdue. 

This discussion looks related to my problem but my cron is scheduled every 5 min (and quiz tasks are ran ASAP), so i don't think it's a synchronization/cron problem. 

Do you have any idea how to fix this or to help understand the problem ? We will be massively using quiz with the general lock-down and I don't know how reliable the quiz is. 

Thank you,

Francis

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In reply to Francis Feytout

Re: Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Tim Hunt -
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In the quiz settings, there is a setting for what happens when time is expired. Check what that is set to. (The default it to auto-submit, but someone might have changed it.)
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In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Francis Feytout -
Hey Tim,
Thanks, but as I undertand overdue answers should not be graded, and they are.
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In reply to Francis Feytout

Re: Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Dominique Bauer -
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Bonjour Francis,

Actually, if you set a time limit and the student is still working on his quiz when the time is up, his attempt will still be submitted even if "When the time expires" is set to "Attempts must be submitted before time expires, or they are not counted ". This last setting only applies if the student has not submitted his quiz and has logged out when the time is up.


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In reply to Dominique Bauer

Re: Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Francis Feytout -
Thank you Dominique, so it's a translation ambiguity !
That explains the first part of my question, now about the grading of overdue answers. Shouldn't the grading process grade only timely answers ?
I was led to believe that way by the docs :
  • "Answers that the student submits after the quiz closing date will be saved but they will not be marked".
I see now it can be interpreted both way, can anyone confirm if it's a feature or a bug ? If it's a feature, it's awfully lenient. 
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In reply to Francis Feytout

Re: Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Dominique Bauer -
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Bonjour Francis,


Translation ambiguity? I don't know. The wording of the setting is not clear in either English or French, nor is the explanation unless you already know the behaviour. A clarification in MoodleDocs would probably be useful.

I do not believe that it is a bug but rather a protection so as not to lose quiz attempts if a teacher who is not yet familiar with Moodle had set this setting incorrectly.

On the other hand, it is very easy for you to eliminate the attempts that have been submitted after the deadline.



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In reply to Dominique Bauer

Re: Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Dominique Bauer -
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You can read the following in MoodleDocs:

  1. The quiz count-down timer submits a student's quiz attempt at the last second when time expires. Because the server is heavily loaded, it takes 30 seconds to process the student's attempt. The submission is accepted nonetheless.
  2. Same situation as above but with a 120 second delay: The submission is rejected.
  3. The delay is not because of server load but because the student found a way to cheat the timer. Moodle cannot know what causes a delay. The behaviour is controlled by the admin setting (quiz | graceperiodmin), 60 seconds by default.

However, it seems that whatever value you put for Site administration / Plugins / Activity modules / Quiz - General settings / Last submission grace period (quiz | graceperiodmin), the quiz is automatically submitted, with State Finished, when the time is up if the student is still logged in and even if "When time expires" is set to "Attempts must be submitted before time expires, or they are not counted". This is at odds with the above documentation.

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In reply to Dominique Bauer

Re: Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Francis Feytout -
Bonjour Dominique,
I'm glad to know it isn't only me ! There is definitely something weird with overdue attempts.
It's easy to spot for an admin or advance users, but with the lock-down, I have a new batch of teachers that need help and/or don't want to spend too much time on logistics.
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In reply to Francis Feytout

Re: Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Dominique Bauer -
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Bonjour Francis,

I created tracker MDL 6851 and put a note in MoodleDocs.

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In reply to Dominique Bauer

Re: Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Tim Hunt -
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Dominique, in the screen-shot above, you show the help text which says exactly what the expected behaviour is: If the student is actively working on the quiz, then if the count-down timer is on screen and reachers zero, then the student's quiz attempt is automatically submitted. That has been the case since Moodle 1.4 in 2004.

And, when the 'Wend time expires setting was added in Moodle 2.3 (MDL-3030, https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Better_handling_of_overdue_quiz_attempts) there was no intention to change that. The new setting is only about what happens when the student is not actively working on the quiz when time expires.

So, I will close the tracker issue.

If there are misleading docs anywhere, then please could people help fix them.

If anyone can think of a plausible scenario where the student is actively working on the quiz, answering questions right up to the last second, about that student does not want their answers counted.

I mean, I don't know how exams work in your country, but in the UK, what happens when time expires is that the invigilator says "Stop writing now", and students can work right up to that point. We don't say to students "I few minutes before time expires (you'd better watch out for when that is) you need to write your name on the exam paper, bring it to the invigilator at the front of the room, then leave. If you don't manage that, we will throw your answers in the bin."
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In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Tim Hunt -
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Also, I agree that if you look at the words on the form, they imply a certain behaviour which is not true. If anyone can think of a more self-explanatory wording for this setting in the form, that would be good.
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In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Dominique Bauer -
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Hello Tim,

Thank you very much for taking the time to clarify the question. I wouldn't say that the documentation is misleading, but it may not be really self-explanatory to a layman teacher.

For example, it seems that the countdown timer is also displayed when a "Close the quiz" time is set.

"When time expires", "when the count-down timer reaches zero", "when the time limit is up", etc. would mean: when the "Time limit" is reached or when the "Close the quiz" time is reached, whichever comes first.

If the above is true, then it is really not clear in the documentation.

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In reply to Dominique Bauer

Re: Overdue attempt accepted and graded

by Tim Hunt -
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Well, there might be any number of reasons why the student must have submitted their quiz by a certain time. In standard Moodle those reasons are the Time limit, and the Close date/time. However, the can by controlled by Quiz access rule plugins, so there could be any number of other rules in place.

In any case, there will be some time when the quiz is due to be submitted - obtained by applying all the applicable rules, and the timer will count down to that time.
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