The Moodle editor puts junk in the code

The Moodle editor puts junk in the code

by Ian L -
Number of replies: 14

I am sorry I know someone probably worked hard on that editor, but man that editor puts so much junk into the code and I actually changed the setting in the editor to allow for this, but it didn't really help.

I also recently updated from 2.7 to 3.7 thinking that would change, but no.

I frequently update my home page and that editor frequently changes the size of text and even puts spaces where they shouldn't be or it takes them out.

Then it puts line breaks in paragraphs where they are not needed.

<br></p>

And <span style...

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In reply to Ian L

Re: The Moodle editor puts junk in the code

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Hmmmm ... if there were any editor experts that programmed it and who might be able to tell you what you could do ... not sure they would ... now that you've classified the editor as such.

By chance are you using a Microsoft product of any kind to copy from and paste into editor?

By chance, if you are doing above, do you have the HTML Tidy filter turned on?

Would you prefer TinyMCE?   One can change default editors from Atto to TinyMCE ... think there might be a 'Tidy' button in the editor bar itself.

Oh, yeah ... remember that video thang for educators? Ran across this .... check it out:

https://greatdiscourses.com/types-of-discussion-courses

Educator Development Courses

Great Discourses offers special professionally designed and led Great Books online discussion courses for Great Books educators (broadly understood to encompass college and university professors, K-12 teachers, adult educators, administrators, homeschooling parents and others with a serious interest in Great Books education). Like most Great Books discussion courses, class sessions revolve around a critical, collaborative discussion of classic texts read in advance. Unlike most other such courses, however, the classic readings in educator courses allow participants to increase their proficiency with one or more aspects of Great Books education (also broadly understood). Although educator development courses are listed publicly, registration is handled individually by email in order to maintain the professional focus of these courses. Most courses are eligible for Continuing Education Units (CEU).

SoS', Ken

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In reply to Ian L

Re: The Moodle editor puts junk in the code

by James Steerpike -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

If you don't like the editor, change the way you use it.

The leftmost button opens more menu items. Last icon allows pasting of formatted html. So install something that suits your needs on your desktop, write your formatted text, then copy the html code and paste it into the form.  You know  html syntax - you can always edit in html mode within Moodle.

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In reply to James Steerpike

Re: The Moodle editor puts junk in the code

by Ian L -

Did you read my post or just reply to the headline? Been using Moodle since 2013. Very aware of those things.

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In reply to Ian L

Re: The Moodle editor puts junk in the code

by James Steerpike -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
Yes, I read your posts. I see you sell courses on Paypal - while calling the work of the unpaid developers who make your income stream possible a piece of sh@!.


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In reply to James Steerpike

Re: The Moodle editor puts junk in the code

by Ian L -

I am so sorry perhaps I should have said it's a horrible piece of sh*!. It creates more work. I just went in there today to work and it threw this in it:

<span style="font-size: 0.9375rem;">

I never put it in my code and that's what it does. It puts a bunch of crap in the editor that I don't and then I have to go back in and take it out.

It's been doing this not for days, not for months but for years. Years. And I think someone should know.

Also no one works for free. They are not slaves.

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In reply to Ian L

Re: The Moodle editor is a piece of -

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Well then ... submit an official tracker "complaint"

https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-55744?jql=text%20~%20%22atto%22

Once approved/not rejected for some reason ... like duplicate of, etc, some back here and ask folks to 'vote for it'.

Something additional you could do ... take some of the profits from your online courses, become a member of the Moodle Association and 'spend' your votes each year on fixing the issue - until it's fixed.   This direction means you are now officially part of the moodle eco system ... full circle, so to speak.

OR ... hire a progammer to fix it ... share back to moodle ... or make even more 'contributions' of _insert_currency_here_ for annual Moodle Association membership and votes.   Now that's full circle! ;)

OR ... switch to Canvas ... or other LMS ... there's 100's of them now.   Google search or there is a site dedicated to online learning now one could use to find LMS that's 'perfect'.

'spirit of sharing', Ken

Qualifications for this response:  began creating web content when there were no GUI editors and a Moodle user prior to 2013. smile





Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Ken Task

Re: The Moodle editor is a piece of -

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers
Ken, I don't know if you know this, but the Canvas editor is much worst than what Moodle provides.

I am not sure what it might take for you to see this, but here is a URL to some discussion about the Canvas editor.
https://community.canvaslms.com/ideas/13185?commentID=135374#comment-135374

Of course, many people live with this editor, and unlike Ian, don't even know that editors can be better.

Moodle offers three standard editors, and the ability to write HTML.  Additionally, there are a bunch of plugins that can be added to these editors.  This is a lot of flexibility, but not perfect.  When not perfect, there is "Tracker" for requesting additional features.  And, of course, there are these forums for users to share ideas.  And if this is not good enough, since Moodle is open-source, create your own solution.  I don't know of any other LMS offering all of these alternatives.
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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: The Moodle editor is a piece of -

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Rick is one of the 'moodle faithful'.  His Uni does use Canvas.
But also uses DreamWeaver for some static pages linked in his moodle (did I get that right?).

Ian ... what is your 'industry'?

Below for a little reading ... not claiming it's a site that has a lock
on anything ... kinda interesting though.

https://www.toptools4learning.com/

Top 200 Tools for Learning 2019

The Top Tools for Learning 2019 list was compiled by Jane Hart from the results of the 13th Annual Learning Tools Survey, and released on 18 September 20189. Below you will find a table listing the top 200 tools as well as their ranking on 3 sub-lists: Top Tools for Personal & Professional Learning (PPL100), Top Tools for Workplace Learning (WPL100) and the Top Tools for Higher Education (EDU100) to provide context for their use. (Please note that as only 22% of the respondents came from education the Top 200 listing is therefore skewed towards workplace learning tools.) For general information about the survey, visit the About page.

EDU100 is Rick's 'industry' ...
PPL100 Personal and Professional Learning
WPL100 - Top Tools for Workplace Learning
Table displayed has columns for ...

Ranking     change from ’18   Tool     PPL100     WPL100     EDU100

Moodle:
50     down 8     Moodle     course management system         44     16
Canvas
70     up 17     Canvas     course management system             18

One thing is certain ... one has more choices/options than 10-15 years ago ... and sites like the one shared here have 'sprung up' ... to help?  or confuse?    Hmmmm ... always read who sponsors!!!! smile

'spirit of sharing', Ken

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In reply to Ken Task

Re: The Moodle editor is a piece of -

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers
Yep, Ken, you got that right. My Uni does use Canvas, which I continue to learn, but do not use because it lacks many of the great features in Moodle (that many of us take for granted.)
Yep, I do use Dreamweaver for all my static pages. What might seem odd to some folks, I have absolutely no "Pages" in any of my courses created by Moodle. You do make me wonder about Ian's issues, if they are with ATTO as seen in discussions, which I always use, or with ATTO as it is used to create Pages. Probably both. Well, this is all very interesting. I came to using Dreamweaver before using Moodle, similar to what you had said, Ken, about "began creating web content when there were no GUI editors..." We all arrive at where we are today by different paths. In my own case, since I have never created "Pages" in Moodle, I have no clue what one can or cannot do. So, Ian, I apologize if I said something weird because I have been thinking only of the editor in forum posting.

However, my comments are valid for what I have said about Canvas. My Uni instructional designers tell me that they have to use HTML whenever they want to do something a little more creative in Canvas' "pages," such as creating a special heading.

I find it interesting, Ken, that you reference the Top 200 Tools for Learning 2019. I was just on this website the other day, and have visited this website over the last 5 years or so. Kind of an interesting site. (Moodle continues to lead Canvas, but Blackboard is falling, Canvas is gaining.) Yes, a bit skewed survey, but fun to watch. This survey seems to be based upon popularity, and nothing to do with functionality. Without a doubt, Canvas has gained in popularity, surpassing Blackboard in the U.S. And also, a lot has to do with what you want to do with these products. I, for example, want to push products as far as I can, so simple products do not make it into my repertoire. For example, I use Adobe Premiere for my video editing, a product that many instructors will not touch because it is too complex. Oh well.
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In reply to Ian L

Re: The Moodle editor puts junk in the code

by James Steerpike -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
People do work for free. in this forum, many contributors are expert in their knowledge and spend hours each week helping others with their problems. i have often been grateful for their advice so generously given.
Moodle contributors aren't slaves because they choose to make an unpaid contribution. But when you demand someone fix a minor defect without offering to pay, you are asking for a slave.
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In reply to James Steerpike

Re: The Moodle editor puts junk in the code

by Ian L -

I made an honest comment. You are the one that made a demand. Just because I use Paypal with Moodle doesn't mean I make any money or should pay them any money. 

If they want they want to make money then they should charge. I've had free courses before and know if you give away something for free people will take it. And only a very small percent of people will donate.

Just like Wikipedia.

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In reply to Ian L

Re: The Moodle editor puts junk in the code

by Marcus Green -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
'I made an honest comment.'
You made an unnecessarily disparaging comment.
Which web based editor do you consider better?
Average of ratings: Useful (5)
In reply to Ian L

Re: The Moodle editor puts junk in the code

by Jez H -
Yeah there are a few quirks with Atto, it would be better if it refrained from trying to "fix" code as it does currently but it has improved greatly over the years and is way better than TinyMCE was and plugin support is much better.
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In reply to Ian L

Re: The Moodle editor puts junk in the code

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
I've never met a "WYSIWYG" HTML editor that was much use.

If you want nice HTML then you're probably going to have to hand code it. It's probably the geek in me but for anything more than basic text with paragraph breaks (which I assume is what we are talking about) you're probably better doing that anyway.
Average of ratings: Useful (1)