Moodle in English: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Chris Swinney - 2018年12月1日星期六 20:33

Hi,

We have a relatively simple training need where we deliver just two courses (at the moment) in a "face to face" format. I am looking to add Moodel into the mix to create a more blended environment

The courses naturally have sections (or modules) that I would like to reuse those to build similar courses in the future. In addition, these course are repeated lock stock and barrel on a near weekly basis to different groups.

Whilst the course only last a few days, I want the users to have access to the MOST resource material for a significant amount of time (2 year), but potentially would like to close off other material (and perhaps assessments ) in a shorter amount of time (say 1 month). I want the users in the different groups to be able to interact with each other, to share ideas and knowledge and to build up a community, and I would like any changes I make to the material to be reflected to all users, no matter when they took the course (assuming this is the material they still have access to. As such, I would rather use the same single repository of information, so that any changes I make are reflected in the courses.

Having looked at how Moodle deals with courses and how I can recreate courses, it seems like I need to backup and copy the material. This would then seem to me to create different repositories of information, so lead to a divergence of material content.

I'm not sure if I could use a single course and groups, but then how to I limit the content to users within those groups based on different time bounds?

I do have one other need in that some of these courses are going to be "private" so only specific user should be able to sign up for them, but the material will still be the same and I still want them to be apart of the overall "community".

Any ideas on how I might proceed before I make mistake would be useful.

Some of the user management requirements (such as who can sign up to what) might be taken care of by another package we are looking at - Arlo - that we hope will integrate with Moodle nicely.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Colin Fraser - 2018年12月2日星期日 08:42

In response to this part:

"Whilst the course only last a few days, I want the users to have access to the MOST resource material for a significant amount of time (2 year), but potentially would like to close off other material (and perhaps assessments ) in a shorter amount of time (say 1 month). "

I would offer that you could break your resources into two parts. One part directly relating to the course itself, that is the short term material, and the second part, the long term material in a common repository, or another course.

There is one issue though, unless you are dealing with Maths or Science, the resources of courses change all the time, as the course evolves. A quadratic and how to resolve them doesn't change, for example. Same with science theories and formula. The approach to teaching and learning these things may change, but the technique itself doesn't. It would not be unreasonable to expect that longer term material gets less relevant over time, it just falls out of step with current thinking, so there needs to be a review and renewal process in place to keep up with the changes around all learning materials. Good luck.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Ken Task - 2018年12月2日星期日 09:24

+20 @Colin ... well stated ... applies to social sciences, etc. as well ... dare say even corp training and higher ed. (eventually)

My 2 cents.

'spirit of sharing', Ken

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Chris Swinney - 2018年12月2日星期日 10:52

indeed, your last point is why I want to create a single reusable repository of material, so that I only need to update them in one location and that any courses built on them, the changes are reflected. It seems that this might actually be very difficult, if not impossible, in Moodle?

This is in fact, corporate training, although form my sins I am a training teacher and would like to develop the training culture in our organisation with more pedagogic principles.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Melanie Scott - 2018年12月3日星期一 22:10

I don't think it would be difficult, but it will take work.

There are many ways to encourage engagement (glossary, forum, workshop, chat, wiki--which is a complex module and may require some training to use) and a lot of ways to use them. Moodle remembers when you do update content (it does not necessarily remember what the changes were). If you are really concerned about maintaining a repository of previous info, you could hide the old and show the new (thus demonstrating both for records purposes) or you could make a copy of the course and update old material if staff are required to re-complete after a certain time (or there is some sort of re-engagement plugin--but that goes back to hide old-show new). I ran an installation for a long time which had new versions of the same classes with updated material (policy changes, new activities, etc) that showed up annually. Some of them were required for all staff, some for specific groups.

The answer to the "Can Moodle do..." question is generally yes; there may be caveats, like, if you use third party plugins or if you XYZ, but usually yes. A better question is "How do I..."

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Chris Swinney - 2018年12月3日星期一 23:07

In that case..... "How" do I create a single reusable repository to be shared an updated in a single place?

We have no real requirement for maintaining previous versions. These need to be living repositories, where we can update in a single location. Versioning within Moodle would be cool, but not necessary. Plugins, at moment, we have no issue with as we have yet to start using Moodle in anger (I am trying to figure out the best way to use it.....).

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Melanie Scott - 2018年12月4日星期二 22:10

I'm pretty sure there is a repository thing...check out the Managing repositories documentation on Moodle Docs. I don't do much with them but I understand they are better than they were 10 years ago (which is good--if they weren't, there would be a real problem ).

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Chris Swinney - 2018年12月9日星期日 06:58

Thanks @melanie although this doesn't quite appear to be what I'm looking for. From what I can see, they are simply a file dumping grounds. What I would like to be able to do is create some reusable Moodle activities in a repository that I can added in multiple course. I can't quite believe that no one has ever wanted to reuse activities across courses before now, thus create something where you simply update the material in one place. It seems totally counter intuitive to create the resources multiple times.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Rick Jerz - 2018年12月9日星期日 07:43

Hi Chris, I thought that I would add a slightly different perspective. Yes, I use "content" across courses, but I find that I am better doing this by separating content from my Moodle. Last year, I gave a presentation on my approach. I am sharing this with you just in case it might help, a little.

MoodleMoot2018 (Spain and Mountain), "Managing Course Content Using a “Personal Repository”

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Chris Swinney - 2018年12月9日星期日 19:35

Thanks Rick, I fear you are correct and that this IS the only real way to reuse valuable content, and to have a "single source of truth".

I can't then help feeling a little underwhelmed by the functionality which, to my mind, would be core to the requirements of an LMS and the needs of teachers and trainers. After all, Moodle itself stands for "Modular Object-Oriented Dynamic Learning Environment", where object orientation is all about the reuse of code, and modularisation also screams reuse. I therefore seems quite intuitive and counter productive to be unable to reuse resources that you have (without duplicating them), at least IMHO. Duplication is not reuse in the way I would expect.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Visvanath Ratnaweera - 2018年12月9日星期日 23:47

Hi Chris and Rick

I think https://docs.moodle.org/en/Private_files are meant to be "single source of truth". I know, it is all visual, no automation with FTP, rsync, etc. Yes, the whole thing is underwhelming. My explanation is that the "old fashioned" course based directory tree (in Moodle 1) was replaced with https://docs.moodle.org/en/Repositories (in Moodle 2) to be user-friendly for the most basic users - leaving the not so basic users go hunting for work-arounds.

@Chris, that said, since you seem to be the only person, who uploads files, have a look at the https://docs.moodle.org/en/File_system_repository.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Chris Swinney - 2018年12月10日星期一 00:49

Actually, what I really, really want (what I really really want), is to be able to to reuse modular realises I have created in Model (e.g. books, lessons, pages, quizes), etc).

For example, let's say we have 5 courses (and by course I mean a collection of topics/modules that go together to provide a specifc learning path). Now, the sections within the course would be equivalent to those modules (in my understanding) and those modules would have resources I would use, such as a lesson, quiz, chapter in a book etc.).

It would be perfectly normal to use the same module across all these courses, which contains the same resources. So I want to be able to update this material once and for it to be reflected everywhere. I would seem daft to me to COPY material into a new couse, so now I have to update in multiple places.

Am I absolutely the only one who is wanting to use Moodle in this way??? Or am I just missing something very basic? It would seem that using a repository, means throwing away much of the core functionality of Moodle?

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

ben reynolds - 2018年12月10日星期一 04:59

I've read most, but not all, of this thread. Sorry this is longer than you want.

It was apparent to me when the new file system appeared in 2.0 that a major reason for it was that the 1.0 system was insecure. If you knew the path to any file, you knew the path to all files. Thus, the current, fairly useless draft file hoo hah doesn't work for multiple uses of the same info because how do you find the original file? And, the file doesn't go away until NO link to it exists, at which point Moodle deletes the file. BUT, you the human have to remember where the links are and delete each of them.

Our solution is to have files external to Moodle. We have a dedicated server as a repository. Why do I love this solution? Because BensFile1.docx can be linked to many times and can be altered in just one place. (You still have to remember where the links are and delete each of them.)

Now to "modules." You've got a topic or section or activity in one course. It links to content external to Moodle (cf. above). You import that section or activity (that's Moodle speak) from the original course to all the other courses. Typically, for us, this is stuff like the Don't Plagiarize warning, the how to upload your assignment info, the play nice in the forums directions.

Hope that helps.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

ben reynolds - 2018年12月10日星期一 05:08

Oh heck,

I reread your last post and realized you mean "make a book and have it propagate to all my courses."

That's not difficult. You revise in one course and then you import from that course to all the other courses. Be very careful not to have legacy files in the source course or they will import into all your courses with disastrous results.

Be aware that when you import, the item you import goes to the *numbered* section that is the same in the importing class. (All sections are secretly numbered by, surprise! a computer program.) So, if you've got "Don't Cheat" in the third section of your originating course, it will import to whatever is the third section in your target course. You'll need to move it where you want it.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Chris Swinney - 2018年12月10日星期一 07:26

Thanks Bert,

"you revise in one course and then you import from that course to all the other courses."

That's quite a nasty hacky workaround to the problem, and would start to get very annoying (if not down right complex, erring towards difficult to maintain) if you have more than just a couple of courses that relied on the same resources in various modules (sections). Perhaps there is a way to automate this, should the need arise.

Whist I have played with Moodle on and off for a number of years, this particular site is greenfield so will start with the latest generation of Moodle. I do not think any legacy files will ever exist.

I guess the take home from this is that you simply cannot do what I would I would like and what I think would be a sensible option, which would be to create and link course sections (or modules) that can then be used simply in other courses, which is a shame. I suppose this would be akin to having a linked template - you update the course/section template, and all linked modules are updated. However, if copying stuff is the only option, then it is the only option .

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Rick Jerz - 2018年12月10日星期一 07:45

Chris, I made my post below and then I saw your reply to Ben. So this is just a short follow up.

I think what you seek is to have course resources "synchronized." Am I on target with the use of the word "synchronized?" As I said below, I think you want changes in any resource or activities immediately synchronized to any course that uses it.

Ben might be like me, I don't synchronize anything (except question bank questions.) If I had the need, I might do what Ben suggests. But I haven't found the need.

I do appreciate what you are asking. (Again, with my approach to distributing videos, any change that I make in a video is seen by any course that uses it., as an example.)

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery OFF TOPIC

ben reynolds - 2018年12月10日星期一 08:32

I've got the mustache, and I've got the last name, and I've got the first letter of his first name,
And I've been called "Bert/Burt Reynolds" since the 1980s, including by people who actually know me, but, no, I'm not recently dead, and I'm actually BEN.
OK, let's go have a helpful forum discussion.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery OFF TOPIC

Rick Jerz - 2018年12月10日星期一 08:41

When I zoom into your face, I could swear that this is you.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery OFF TOPIC

ben reynolds - 2018年12月10日星期一 09:05

I do not have enough turtlenecks and hotrod cars, Rick. Plus, the girls in my life use polysyllabic words that I understand

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery OFF TOPIC

Melanie Scott - 2018年12月10日星期一 21:53

You guys sure do know how to put a smile on a girl's face!

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery OFF TOPIC

ben reynolds - 2018年12月11日星期二 00:04

Now I have to tease your for a post consisting entirely of single syllable words.

Thanks for the compliment, Melanie.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery OFF TOPIC

Melanie Scott - 2018年12月11日星期二 21:53

That was deliberate.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery OFF TOPIC

ben reynolds - 2018年12月11日星期二 23:02

I assume you mean the compliment

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery OFF TOPIC

Chris Swinney - 2018年12月12日星期三 19:01

whoops @ben - I have only just seen what I did to cause this side discussion. I am terribly dyslexic and completely missed the fact that I had likened you to the recently deceased. Sorry....

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery OFF TOPIC

Melanie Scott - 2018年12月13日星期四 21:30

Well, yes, the compliment but also the words with only one syl la ble.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

ben reynolds - 2018年12月10日星期一 09:01

OK. What's going on here is different from what you think.

The reason you can't do -- for instance, a total quiz replacement in many courses at the same time -- is that the quiz is in use somewhere.

Everyone may have completed Quiz A in course A, but the identical quiz in Course B may not be complete for all users. Obviously, you don't want to change the rules on users when they haven't completed the activity. And Moodle, wisely, won't let you change an activity that isn't complete for all users.

On most servers, the import function is very quick and not a problem. I'm in the midst of using it now for a fair number of courses. So, I'm unclear about what your pain point is.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Rick Jerz - 2018年12月10日星期一 07:34

Chris, I think that I am understanding you. Let's take, for example, an individual topic that has one quiz in it. Let's call this quiz "Rectangles in Geometry." And let's say you love this quiz, and so do others. Sure, others can import this quiz into their course.

But I sense that you want to go a step beyond this. If in the first course you decide to change the due date, for example. I think you are asking if there is any way that this change in one course can be propagated to the other courses?

And your slight frustration comes from my (novice) answer, no, can't do that as far as I know. Courses are independent.

Changes to quiz questions, for example, can immediately make their way into every course where the question is used. That's because of Moodle's Question (database) Bank. But you can't do what I think you want to do. Quiz questions might be only one example where sharing works well. I don't use lessons or pages. However, the way that I keep my course content separate from my Moodle does allow changes in my course content to propagate to all courses where used.

So getting back to your question, "Does anyone do this?" I would say "Not me." But that's because the courses that I teach don't overlap with topics. I teach different courses. That being said, if I do want to use a common video across courses, I can. But that's because my videos are external.

Moodle does have its own file system, as others (Visvanath) have pointed out. But quite honestly, I find it more awkward than my external website approach.

No, let me say another thing. Next semester, I am teaching several sections of the same course, but these are slightly different sections because one is online and the other is face-to-face, so I have some different resources for each course. In Moodle, I have decided to use one course, and groups (for the two different kinds of sections.) Moodle's "groups" are very powerful. So in my one course, around 80% of the resources are common. For the 20% different content, I am hiding/showing resources to the appropriate group.

Back to your question (again), doing what I think you propose brings along some difficulties in logic? Let's say you have 5 courses and you could share a topic across all 5 courses. If these 5 courses had 5 different instructors, who controls the changes? If instructor B makes a change in Course B, do you want that change to go back to all courses? I am one who thinks that the "change logic" will become quite difficult.

The LMS product, Canvas, provides (they have a name for it that I cannot remember right now, so I will call it...) template courses. There is a "master" course and "slave" courses. Changes in the master get pushed to the others, but this is only one way. If a course below makes a change, it doesn't get pushed upwards. Some think this is great. I see no use for it.

In my own case, I always start a new semester's course based upon a previous semester. So 90%-95% of everything is ready to go.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Chris Swinney - 2018年12月10日星期一 17:38

Thanks for your answer Rick. I outlines some of the worries I have and why Moodle is the way it is. I have assumed (perhaps incorrectly)) that ALL resources would be linked to a common DB (not just quiz questions) where 1:many and many:many relationships are perfectly normal.

For us, yes we have different trainers, but we try to keep the material as common as possible, as we need to deliver the material in a consistent way. Of course, each presenter will have their own style and approach, but the material will be the same, just like a reference book used would be the same. We positively encourage all trainers to add to the base content so that all can benefit, but we then gather to understand what those changes are. Canvas, therefore, sounds like something that would benefit us.

Groups are something I am keen to explore and this may also offer an answer. We then may have one group for the US, one for Europe, one for APAC etc, although this may need to be subdivided by country.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Rick Jerz - 2018年12月10日星期一 20:41

Chris, your desire to have synchronized course content is the tough part, with any LMS. I am not trying to imply that Canvas does this well, but it does offer a one-way method of making cookie-cutter courses. If you want your instructors to independently make changes and push them upwards, they cannot. Also, Canvas' implementation of groups is very week, and there is not a shared database for quiz questions. Having said this, you should explore Canvas and other LMSs. Maybe one will fit you better than the other.

I have never encountered an LMS that can do what you want to do, but I have not worked with every LMS (just the four or five market leaders.)

As an idea, here is one approach. You can start a semester or term by building one "master" course, as a team. Then you make copies of it for each instructor to use. They go ahead an use it, and improve upon it. Then, after the course is over, you get the instructors together to talk about what has worked and what has not. You then build a new "master" course, make copies for other to use, and this process continues. There might be a point where one instructor says "I prefer my own version better than the Master. Just start my new course with a copy of my old course." Moodle would handle this scenario quite well.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Chris Swinney - 2018年12月12日星期三 17:34

This is great Rick, and will help enormously. When I mean that we actively encourage all trainers to add to the core content, I think that some feedback mechanism would aid in structure, so one way syncing seem appropriate.

The point of these posts are to understand how the underlying system can be used to to understand how we can use it to fit within our own processes. This has been an extremely useful discussion, so thank to all that have commented and help establish ideas and direction.

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Rick Jerz - 2018年12月13日星期四 02:14

Yep, a lot to understand! Practice makes perfect!

Also, asking questions along the way helps, too!

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Re: Creating reusable course and modules - converting from face-to-face only delivery

Visvanath Ratnaweera - 2018年12月11日星期二 22:11

You should consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_Tools_Interoperability (LTI) and https://docs.moodle.org/en/LTI_and_Moodle.

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