How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Patrick Shipway -
Number of replies: 42

Hi all,

I used to work for a school that hosted its own moodle server and my Chemistry team ran our courses through there. I left and downloaded backup files (.mbz) from the sites and am now trying to run a free MoodleCloud site since my school currently uses Schoology and hasn't decided on its next Learning Management System yet. I'm hoping to get them go to Moodle but I can't show them my site because the backup file is ~240MB and the free moodle cloud max is only 200MB. 

Now the backup file I have is my content and a lot of other teachers content but even trying to get rid of their stuff by turning it into a .zip file first it doesn't seem to make it small enough, sometimes even larger. Anyone know a way to decrease the backup size so it will upload? Or a way I can get those files back without having to pay $200 to host the site for a few months for my 24 students?

Thanks.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Patrick Shipway

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by William Stewart -
It may not be the most ideal solution in terms of access, but why don't you download MAMP and set up a local installation with your course? I'm not sure if you want to other teachers, admins, or students to see it, but your network staff could (perhaps) set up on an intranet within your building for demo purposes.
In reply to Patrick Shipway

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Trying to 'doctor' a moodle 2.x/3.x .mbz backup and reduce size is extremely technical.   First, an .mbz is not a zip by another name, it's really a tar.gz file.   Once one learns how to un-compress, then there is the task of working with .xml files and the hardest of all, the contenthash named files in the 'files' directory of the un-tar-gz'd backup.

So rather than do all that, how about an offer you can't/shouldn't refuse?

How about a 'free moodle' to restore your course ... the free moodle would be close to the version of the backup.   Once restored there, you could then break apart the course and create backups that 'fit' into the free Moodle Cloud where you'd actually run your class.

I'll PM you my EMail so we can start direct EMail exchange and I can then set you up on a server that has multiple versions of Moodle from 2.7 to 3.1.   Upload size wiill not be a restriction then for you to work on the course.

And just so others don't go nuts ... no ... no charge ... no won't do this for any/all.  Having been a secondary school teacher and one who help public K12 schools in the use of Moodle and Moodle hosting while at an ESC in Texas (later with TCEA) and have a 'soft spot' for K12.

'spirit of sharing', Ken


Average of ratings: Useful (2)
In reply to Ken Task

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Sue Hallstrom -

I'm having a very stressful school year.  My district is discontinuing hosting of moodle - which I've been using for a very, very long time.  My principal just purchased a year of moodlecloud for us and we didn't have any idea that our classes were so large - too large for moodlecloud.  

I don't have any idea of what it is that is taking up so much space.  Two of the three classes are about 0.35 GB and 0.5 GB.  The third is 2.8 GB.  I'm way over the 1 GB limit.

I'm trying to get moodlecloud to refund our money and I'm hoping you might be able to steer me to a cheap, cheap host that would keep an up to date version of moodle with a reasonable set of plug-ins.  I don't know if I'm phrasing this correctly, but I'm sure you can figure out what I'm looking for.  If I can get the refund from moodlecloud, my principal has committed to $900/year - $75 a month or so.  We will have about 500 students and we have three classes we want to "run" from our site.  The three teachers who will be using this are good at using moodle, but have no experience in any administrative tasks.

If you have any advice you can offer, it would be greatly appreciated!


Sue Hallstrom - Science teacher at Shawnee Mission East HS in Kansas

In reply to Sue Hallstrom

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Sorry to hear about your problems, Sue.

Out of curiosity, where had moodle been hosted?  It is fine if you are not able to let us know.

What makes a course big?  Not sure.  But "videos" do, especially if you are uploading them into your moodle course.  If so, put these videos elsewhere and link to them within moodle.

You would probably need a VPS as as minimum.  You could do this for under $75/month.  But the problem is that you would need someone to administer it.

As an example, I have a VPS and pay around $40-$50 per month.  I works for my 500 students per year, 12-15 classes needs.  It is on a GoDaddy VPS (I do not work for GoDaddy or own any financial interest in GD.)  However, I have to administer this myself.

Incidentally, I use a bunch of resources and many videos in my courses.  However, they are not sucked into moodle.  I link to these.  My moodle backups, with user information, run around 50MB-70MB in size.


In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Sue Hallstrom -

Remote Learner is the host until June.  They are "shutting us down" when our current contract is up.

To get GoDaddy going, do you just have to restore the backup?


In reply to Sue Hallstrom

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Mary Cooch -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

HI Sue. If you aren't able, as suggested before, to sort out some hosting with your local school education authority, have you explored using a Moodle partner - or at least checking out their prices? If a paid MoodleCloud site doesn't meet your needs, the next option is to be put in touch with a Moodle partner. (See the 'Need a larger plan?' link at the bottom here) Just a thought. Remote Learner are not Moodle partners.

In reply to Mary Cooch

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Sue Hallstrom -

I have contacted a couple of MP.  I cannot exceed $1000 per year and that's substantially less than what I was quoted.  \

Remote Learners were contracted by the district.  I had nothing to do with them.  In fact, I didn't realize moodle was being hosted off-site until this school year.

In reply to Sue Hallstrom

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Sue, okay.  I have read all of your posts and better understand your situation.

Apparently, the cost for Remote Learner was too high, and your administration is trying to save money.  (I sense that Remote Learner is not shutting you down, but rather your administration does not want to renew its contract.) In your case, they have said $1000/year max.  And your administration does not see that it is the role of your IT staff to install and manage moodle.  I am sure the other LMS alternative are not viable because they also cost much more that $1000.  And your teachers have discovered that moodle works well, and they don't want to give it up.

Your school is probably willing to spend more than $1000 per year for cleaning supplies for the building, but unwilling to invest more than $1000 per year on education.  Oh well.

The ease of moving your current moodle to any other system will depend upon how many special plugins your system has.  Of course, less means easier.  Do you know how many extra plugins you are using?

I see two alternatives.  1) It would be best if you could move the complete database and moodledata folders to another system.  To do this, you must have the ability to get these.  I am not sure if Remote Learner will provide.  Also, I assume your Remote Learner system is Linux.  2) Without a complete backup, you will have to move course by course.  Actually, the difficulty of this will depend upon how many courses you have.  With both of these methods, the question banks will move.

If you are running a regular moodle and can get the backups, then it is somewhat of a relatively easy backup/restore to any system, including GoDaddy, if you know what you are doing.  But...

MAMP is a local install that is really not meant for full Internet production use.  But it does provide a nice experimental and learning environment.  MAMP runs on a Mac, other AMP (such as XAMPP) run on a PC.  Using one of these experimental systems is one good way to learn about servers and moodle.  It will help you dig into whether you can restore from a complete backup, or restore course by course.  I use both MAMP and XAMPP, but mostly MAMP because I have a Mac.  I do all of my experimenting in MAMP before I apply changes to my production Moodle.

The greatest challenge moving ahead is the time that it takes to learn.  Are you really talking about just you, or are you talking about a group of teachers wanting to use Moodle?  You said that you "are way over the limit."  Do you mean just you, or a group of teachers.

Obviously, your administrators don't know what they are doing because they invested in MoodleCloud without knowing anything about sizing issues.  Are you the Point of Contact for Remote Learner, or do you have to go through your IT folks for questions that you might have?

Don't delete anything in your current system just yet.  And make sure that someone is doing regular backups.  Your might try asking "Can I get a backup of the moodle database and moodledata folder?" and see what happens.

Well, here is my small offer.  If you would want to somehow get me one of these small course backups, I would be willing to try loading it into one of my experimental servers.  You cannot email me a .35GB file, but maybe you can put it into Google Drive and share it with me.  I could give you a "worked" or "didn't work" answer, but that is about it because I am busy teaching right now.

(Consider looking at some of my videos on this webpage of mine.)

In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Sue, one forgotten comment...

Just so that you can appreciate the "cost" issue, a GoDaddy Deluxe VPS is under $30US/month (renews at a higher price, but they do extend the special price for multiple years.)  This provides 120GB of storage.)  It seems to me that a VPS is where you need to be, but you then will also need to take on the learning curve.

(Ken, out of curiosity, where do you see costs relative to setting up one's own server that might satisfy this need?  Might a small laptop computer be set up with a flavor of Linux?)

In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

There is cost to everything ... even open source/free Linux (pick your distro), Rick ... you know that!  Seriously, would you consider a laptop for your Moodles?    24 hours a day/ 7 days a week.   While one saves on the cost of software licensing for the OS (linux is free), the hardware to run it is not.

Laptop hardware isn't same as Server hardware - matter of fact, laptops probably have been mgft such that they will fail in about 5 years ... at the most.  Planned.   Besides that, moodle will run best with a static IP address and fully qualfied domain name and it would need to be accessed from outside the iSD as well as inside the ISD ... laptops are not stored running in server closets ... where there battery backup and proper cooling.     Her laptop in the corner of the room where students could walk over and attempt to play games on it when she happended to be out of the classroom ... that's not a very ideal situation, now is it?

Don't think ISD's internal IT will agree to a laptop.

Most ISD's use VMWare or even Amazon or Google now days ... so once again the network Gods in an ISD are in total conrtol.   Google Compute Engine ... which is available to Sue, because ISD has a Google Domain, running popular server versions of Ubuntu/CentOS/Scientific Linux, etc. cost $0.00.  One only pays for usage.

Now if Sue approached the IT department about a GCE setup, they might take interest ... heck, they might even maintain it (they will have to or Google will shut it down) .... then Sue could concentrate on just Moodle.

Like I said ... Sue doesn't lack for options.

'spirit of sharing'. Ken

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Ken Task

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Well Ken, much appreciated.  You can see that I know nothing about running Linux or Moodle on my own hardware.  Never even tried.  But your experience and comments are appreciated.  I was just fishing for possible other alternative for Sue.

In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Sue Hallstrom -

The lessons and assessments are the two "big" features of moodle that we are loathe to give up.  As a document repository, I don't care what we use.  That said, having two places for students to navigate to isn't ideal.  Actually, three because we have an on-line textbook.  The lessons and assessments are so much better than anything else we have found and we rely on them heavily.

Regarding plug-ins.  I have no idea.  I have never seen a plain old moodle with no plug ins.  

I have backed up the three courses I need to move and downloaded those backups to my Macbook.  They are safe for now.

There are three teachers involved.  We teach Physical Science, Chemistry 1 and Chemistry 1 Honors.  We also wanted to include IB Chem and AP Chem, but we are opting to run these two on free moodlecloud sites.

I'm now going to watch some of your videos!  I'll write more later.


THANKS!!

In reply to Sue Hallstrom

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

"Regarding plug-ins.  I have no idea.  I have never seen a plain old moodle with no plug ins."

Oh, but you have, you just hadn't realized it! ;)  Earlier you said

"... cheap host that would keep an up to date version of moodle with a reasonable set of plug-ins"

What does 'reasonable set of plugins' mean?

Lessons and Assessments, the two you can't do without,  are built into Moodle ... and have been in older versions of moodle for a very long time - they have improved (somewhat) over time.

So sounds like you don't really a powerhouse.  Hard to tell without seeing.

And there's something else to consider ... you go the VPS route, you maintain ... not the provider.  So it's up to you to "update'.   And from what I've been reading recently, 3.1 -> 3.2 and probably forward to anything higher will continue to be a problem ... unless Moodle takes notice and begins to address updating and upgrading from within Moodle .... which can be done ... my theory is ... IF addressed, then there would be less need for a Moodle Partner. 

Now Rick will say he's got a solution for that!   Am sure he will support your endeavors in that area as well as any questions you might have in GoDaddy/which whatever and forever.

Should you desire to see a small school district .. IT department of one person ... who is also the Business Manager .. drives a bus route in the afternoons ... and teaches two classes as well.

The have Google Domain for their ISD an also have locally hosted Moodle ... Linux ... which I help maintain from time to time - no FTP, no replacing of files, no fuss, no muss.  One click of a Webmin button ... sit back and watch. ;)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5gmU8YqbNJQTmxoZzl5cXVRU2c?usp=sharing

'spirit of sharing', Ken


In reply to Ken Task

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Nope, don't have a solution.  I am just curious to see if I can load one of Sue's courses into a very generic Moodle 3.2, and to see if it crashes.  I would never want to maintain someone else's moodle, I have enough work keeping my own going.  smile

In reply to Sue Hallstrom

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by William Stewart -

Sue,


Similar to what Rick suggested, we use a VPS from KnownHost. I don't work there either, nor have any interest. While we have their most expensive VPS package which is paid for by our parent organization, they have cheaper options as well based on disk space, hardware, and bandwidth options that start at $25/month to $120 (we are $120 a month). I didn't choose the package, it predates me by several years.

However, also like Rick, someone has to manage the site. I get help with more of the server related issues (upgrading php, installing php modules, etc.) from the host (hence paying for their service), but I still to all of the Moodle updates, maintenance, etc.

I struggled this year with our course sizes as well which took a lot of sleuthing on my part. Do you have legacy course files by any chance? Or like Rick mentioned, videos, or perhaps even full quality mp3s, large pdf files? For example I found PDF's in our legacy course file sections that were around 25mb each. While there may have only been 10 of them, thats a whopping 250mb!

In reply to William Stewart

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Sue Hallstrom -

I'll have to look up legacy files.  I have lots of PDFs and Powerpoints.  I was just trying to reset - delete all quiz attempts.  Timed out.

In reply to Sue Hallstrom

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

So you have backups but the 3 courses are no longer hosted anywhere ... ie on any server.  Is that correct so far?  (that's why you know the size of the courses ... based upon the size of  .mbz files you've been attempting to use to restore to the MoodleCloud).

Does your school use Google Drive? or any other free/unlimited space places for eduation?

---- food for thought ---

At your school, surely there are IT employees (6 High Schools)!

What would be the objection to host a Moodle on the Shawnee Mission school districts local area network/wide area network?   Maybe an IT person at your ISD just needs some help?

Please do answer the first question.   The others more for food for thought'. ;)

'spirit of sharing', Ken


In reply to Ken Task

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Sue Hallstrom -

We are hosted until June and I do have backups.  Many of our teachers use Google Classrooms, but that's basically a document repository.  

We have IT employees.  However, we are extremely understaffed and the primary focus is to put out fires. If we contact IT directly with questions outside a very small box, we (teachers) are called to the principal's office.  I'm not joking.

Last week, I contacted the IT help desk and asked if SMSD might be able to host moodle for us.  I begged them not to tell anyone I was asking.  The person I was working with made up a ticket and personally assigned it someone he thought might be able to help.  No chance of that happening.

In reply to Sue Hallstrom

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

The backup file you have in possession ... does it have a -nu at the end of the filename? (that means a 'no user' backup).   If it doesn't then the backup probably contains users (ie, students) and their work/assignments.  If you had even a few assignments where students were required to upload a file, 500 students work could easily push a backup to the Gig range.

If the course is still on a Moodle to which you have access, go to the course and look in the course admin menu.  There should be a 'reset' link.  In the 'reset' options, make sure you see them all ... turn down the collapsible menus ... all of them ... so you can see all options.   You should remove students and their assignments, forum postings, etc.   Only the teachers remain.

Then make another backup of the course and download it.   Hopefully, you will find the .mbz file is much smaller an it might be within size limit restriction uploads @moodlecloud.

IF the course is no longer on a Moodle server, one could do what Stewart suggested ... install a Moodle using a localhost installer - that means one that would be installed on your laptop/desktop, etc.   You should be able to restore that 2Gig backup.   A school district as large as the one where you work should have someone arround that could help you do that.   I see that ISD's home page has a reference to Apple Educators ... if you have Mac's, MAMP iinstall is not only doable ... it's darn simple ... and I don't think any technical support would be needed.

Then do as described above to reduce the size fo the backup.   Uhhh ... not for one minute think of using that local install as a production server.   That software and the way it's configured not designed for actually serving out Moodle.

An offer if none of the above is an option ... as I posted in this thread, I setup the original poster in this thread with access to a server where he/she uploaded.   Course was restored to a hidden course and he/she had access to it.  We then worked together in discussing/cussing what could go and what could stay and a strategy for reducing backup file sizes.   If I re-call, the one course was broken into two courses via the backup processs ... something like the following:  backup 1 contained sections 1-10, backup 2 contained sections 11-20.

The above cost nothing.

A smaller backup means of course, one could restore if under the limits  and could be uploaded used.

Granted, it's not always desireable to have two courses where one would make more sense, but ... it's what you have to work with.

Now as to future of your HS/ISD sites location ... if it were just your campus or just your teams course, that's one consideration ... but your school has 6 high schools.   So are you looking at a site just for your HS? or just yourself and fellow Science teachers (approximately 500 students)?   There are options ... and hopefully you could get some ISD/Campus Technologist involved to assist.

'spirit of sharing', Ken


In reply to Ken Task

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Sue Hallstrom -

Thanks!

The backup file does have an nu at the end.  I can't delete user information right now because our students are using moodle every day!  As we speak I'm deleting all lesson attempts and quiz attempts from the reset page.

I'm also looking up MAMP install.  That is going to require I check out some more forums...

I'm going to share some of the information I've gotten from pros like yourself with someone, I don't know who, and see if any in-district solutions might be feasible.  I'm guessing they will not be interested, but - nothing ventured - nothing gained.

If I do install a moodle somewhere, would it have the question types I use?  I know nothing about the whole plug-in thing.

In reply to Sue Hallstrom

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

In reading through all tbe responses to suggestions, I'd say this isn't really pressing ... ie, got to do it like yesterday as is typical in a "fast" paced K12 entity.   So you have some time to think through options - you certainly have options.

One point I'd like to make right now and that is picking a hosting solution for your needs and taking on then administration of that Moodle ... sounds like a level you don't currently have and therefore strongly suggest installing a local hosted copy of Moodle. That's free.   That moodle is blank ...  contains no courses etc. so you can get an idea of what it's like to admin a moodle ... even learn plugin installs.

That's time well spent right now.

The last thing you want to do is commit your time ... like you don't have enough to do as a classroom teacher .... and the school funds or even your own funds ... IF you don't have to.

Need a plan of action ... how about:

1. install a locally hosted moodle - on your PC or Mac (which do you have, BTW?)

2. take a backup of the current course, with users, etc. download it then restore it to the locally hosted moodle.

3. reset the course

4. make a backup of the reset course

5. IF the size of the backup is now under moodle cloud restrictions, upload to moodle cloud.

Now something to think about ... once the course grows in Moodle cloud, the backup of that course might again reach the size such that it cannot be restored to Moodle cloud.

Since you've mentioned that many teachers have gone google and that's not where you'd like to do ... fine ... but do think about using your Google Drive for storage ... since it's un-limited ... and learn to link to files stored there from your Moodle - Word Docs, PPT's, videos, audios, etc.. .. all of them could be setup to be shared via a link to your Google Domain users ... ie your students.   Copy the URL for the resource and in the Moodle use a URL resource to point to that file.   The backup of your Moodle course will be reduced drastically I would think.   And since Google is controlling access to files + your course probably restricted to students in your ISD, don't think there's much of an issue in linking to them.

My offer still stands if you need a 'sandbox' area right now. ;)  The site for this offer is setup to use Google in the fashion described.   All you have to do is send an EMail to the addy I provided you in a PM on this system.

'spirit of sharing', Ken

In reply to Ken Task

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Sue Hallstrom -

Well.....

I tried to install moodle and ran into multiple "you can't do this" problems.  It's a school issued Macbook and I'm assuming I lack the ability to download what I want.  

A VPN vs. hosting question.  I was looking at GoDaddy and there is a very inexpensive option for hosting.  1 website. 100 GB storage, unlimited bandwidth for 3.99/month.  Why do I need a VPN?

In reply to Sue Hallstrom

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

One thing one has to learn is what the letters mean ... VPN is Virtual Private Network ... it's not the same as VPS which is a Virtual Private System (a server). ;)   A typo can be costly. smile

Now why would we not be surprised about having issues with installing anything not ISD approved on a school issued Mac laptop?   But, you have justification ... get your campus Administrator involved and get rights to install what you need to evaluate.    IF you cannot evaluate, then who will make decisions based upon actual classroom teacher evaluation/practice?    That's a battle worth fighting as not only will you benefit, but your campus will benefit, your students will benefit ...  To hell with the IT rules there.  IT shouldn't trump Instruction ... PERIOD!

Cheap hosting is just that ...  you do get what you pay for!   So let's say you opt for that ... just as long as it's NOT on shared hosting ... you'll still get cPanel Jail - and limations.   Can't tweak the DB settings and may not be able to tweak PHP to limits that suit what you want to do/need to do.

Moodles only grow ... they do NOT get smaller.

IF you ever wanted Site Search ... which in your case ... one Curriculum ... 3 courses to which all students in the Moodle should have access ... you'd want Site Search and Moodle 3.2 minimum.

But, to get Site Search, one has to install Java Run Time Environment (JRE) and an extension to Apache called 'solr' ... that runs under JRE.   That's a separate server/service .... and not easy to setup let alone maintain - Moodle forums prove that!

Wanna peek at that?

Go here: http://sos.tcea.org/moodle32/course/index.php?categoryid=1

Sign in with your Google Credentials and enroll yourself in that course.  Invite your campus IT to do the same.

*WARNING* it's technical and shows how to install solr and get it running in Moodle 3.2 or 3.1 on Scientific Linux 6, CentOS 6 and CentOS 7 (with slight modifications).  And that site is proof that it works ... there is Site Search active on that server.

You might note that server is not a part of an ISD Google Domain, but can use Google and if you click any of the Google links you should see the ISD's Google Drive/Docs, etc..  It might change your ideas about "lessons' and 'assessments'!!!!!

Now I know am beginning to sound 'negative' ... tough questions and difficult situations call for Yin and the Yang discussons/cussions.   Better now than discover, like you have with MC, didn't ask the right questions, etc..  All who are participating in this discussion/cussion cannot make the decisions for you nor your fellow teachers/campus.

Just make sure you can live with whatever is chosen. ;)

And just one more thing ... don't forget the 'end point' ... by that I mean not only students but what students use for 'personal tech'.   That also is a factor yet discussed nor brought up ... and those devices ... how well do they do in 'lessons' and 'assessments'?

Let the students use their own personal tech and think they will be more engaged/longer which directly relates to quality of instruction AND student success ... isn't that a goal?

'spirit of sharing', Ken


In reply to Sue Hallstrom

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

I suggested a VPS because many of the cheaper web-hosting plans allow only up to a 1GB database, and yours might already exceed this.

I did all of those cheaper plans, starting at $3.99.  I have worked my way up to a 3GB VPS, which seems to work fine for my 10-15 courses per year, 300-400 students per year.

Yep, I ran into those "you can't do that" statements too. I teach at the college level, so maybe I have a little more flexibility than you do.  I also have been willing to invest my own money.  For example, I gave up on school issued computers and just bought my own so that I could do more.  I also pay for my own server, and all of my software.  

In reply to Sue Hallstrom

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Restored Sue's course to another server ... results, comments, and recommendatons follow:

Inspection of the .mbz file ...
results

Server upon which it was restored:

KiB Mem : 16251784 total,  2985968 free,  1116256 used, 12149560 buff/cache
KiB Swap:  8257532 total,  8226960 free,    30572 used. 14567240 avail Mem

PHP 7.0.16 (cli) (built: Feb 18 2017 10:25:02) ( NTS )
Copyright (c) 1997-2017 The PHP Group
Zend Engine v3.0.0, Copyright (c) 1998-2017 Zend Technologies
    with Zend OPcache v7.0.16, Copyright (c) 1999-2017, by Zend Technologies
    with Xdebug v2.5.0, Copyright (c) 2002-2016, by Derick Rethans

mysql  Ver 14.14 Distrib 5.6.35

PHP version might be important ...
Restoring to a 3.2.2+ - highest available in that series updated
just the other day.

Backup file:
2.9G    backup-moodle2-course-1700-chem1-20170302-0809-nu.mbz
So it was larger than thought ... almost 3 Gig in size.

Evidently the site from which it was downloaded has
the backup process set to zip and NOT use gzip which is now the standard.
Has to do with compression of the contents of a course contents.

[root@sos shallstrom]# file -b backup-moodle2-course-1700-chem1-20170302-0809-nu.mbz
Zip archive data, at least v2.0 to extract

Version of Moodle 2.8.8 (Build: 20150914)

What makes the course large ...

assessments .. i.e. questions in question bank
24M    questions.xml
The xml file above for the question bank.

Second ... resource files:
9.5M    files.xml
Indicates quite a ew files have been uploaded.
The files themselves:
3.0G    total
when unzipped.

There's a 3rd party plugin ... pluginname un-known on the system
to which it's restored.
So where ever you restore this course, you'll have to make sure
the required plugins are installed *before* attempting restore of the course.

*** VERY IMPORTANT ***
BEFORE THE CONTRACT ENDS ...

Ask RL what happens when a customer decided not to renew the contract.
What can customer expect as a backup of the site from RL?

Ask RL about any special plugin they might have added to the site.  Ask them to remove it.

Why?  They will not give you a backup of the code.  
It includes the extra stuff that one gets only from RL.
They will give you a backup of the data directory AND an SQL dump.
The SQL dump contains references to that special plugin for which
you don't have code.   BROKEN.
The only way to fix a site like that is direct database manipulation
and DB admin had better know what they are doing.

Course restore as reached:

Progress bar is all the way over to a small sliver on the right end.
2.88 secs - 99.74%

It's been like that for at least 10 minutes now.
I'll let it run.

Finally killed the browser instance.
* the course is restored *
but it didn't clean up the temp area used for backing up
it should.

There are no errors in the backup logs kept in
/moodledata/temp/backup/workdir/

-rw-rw-rw-.   1 apache apache        0 Mar 26 22:05 moodle_backup.log

Have manually removed the temp files to free up space.

Chemistry 1 SME

What makes usage deceiving ... in the course you've used 'folders' ... they
contain files ... so when one looks at the overall page, one has to not only
count the files that are linked but the number of files in the folders.

** ALL the word docs and PPTS could be stored and linked to in Google Drive.
You did that with some videos at the top of the course and those worked well.

I backed up the restored course as is via command line.

== Performing backup... ==
Writing /home/backup/m32/backup-moodle2-course-7-chem1-20170326-2254.mbz
Backup completed.

completed successfully:

3101022313 Mar 26 23:00 /home/backup/m32/backup-moodle2-course-7-chem1-20170326-2254.mbz


Recommendations:

Move the docs/ppts those folders to Google Drive and relink.
You then can leave the course as a Semester long course.

** IF YOU DON'T MOVE THE FILES TO GOOGLE DRIVE **
Break apart the course.

Make a backup that includes Sections up to and including Unit 6
OR where ever your Semester break would take you.
That's one course

The second backup from Unit 7 OR where ever you pick up *after* semester break.
On the new home ... restore those courses separately.

Did one backup to Section 7
Saved as:
backup-moodle2-course-7-chem1-TOSEC7-20170326-2304.mbz

It completed

backup-moodle2-course-7-chem1-TOSEC7-20170326-2304.mbz     Sunday, 26 March 2017, 11:10 PM     1.7GB

Looks like, to be able to use any of the course in MoodleCloud, you'll have to break apart the course even more ... the backup above included all up to Section 7 of the course and as you can see is still 1.7GB.

Feel free to tinker with breaking up course while it resides on the SOS server.  I'll not remove until we cuss/discuss.

BUT ... please realize, I might get involved in another such 'project' that might slow down the server. ;)

'spirit of sharing', Ken


Average of ratings: Useful (2)
In reply to Ken Task

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

And some addtional info ...

There is a handy CLI utility for Moodle called moosh.   Does things one cannot find in the Moodle Admin UI.  On of those things is an overview of the course ... info not normally seen.

Here's the info on the course that was restored:

===============================================

No of contexts: 334
Context by level:
    CONTEXT_MODULE (70):    328
    CONTEXT_BLOCK (80):    6
Context by module:
    assign (1):    1
    folder (8):    35
    lesson (13):    9
    quiz (16):    53
    resource (17):    207
    url (20):    23
Number of role capability overwrites: 0
Role capability overwrites by context:
Number of local role assignments: 0
Locally assigned roles by context:
Number of enrolled users: 0
Users enrolled by role:
Number of groups: 10
Group statistics:
    Min number of members in a group:    0
    Max number of members in a group:    0
    Avg number of members in a group:    0
Course modinfo size: 595657
Number of sections: 23
Section statistics:
    Sections visible:    8
    Sections hidden:    15
    Min number of modules in a section:    0
    Max number of modules in a section:    25
    Avg number of modules in a section:    14
Number of grades: 0
Number of log entries: 14
Number of files: 434
Total file size: 3084258525
Cache build time: 0.3112690448761

===============================================


Note the Number of files and the Total file size.   The Total file size will be a pretty good prediction of the backup file size when course is backed up.


Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Ken Task

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

The deeper I get into this issue ... more details emerge ...

Some time ago I had the need to extract files from the sea of files in a 2.x backup ... that 'sea' built just like filedir exist on the server ... files/xx/xx/somelongcontenthashednameofafile

Nothing humanly recognizable! :\

Sue's goal might be difficult to attain for this one course  ... that of getting the course under 1Gig ... as I understand it that's the largest site Moodle Cloud offers.  In order to possibly reach that had to find out what sepcifically was in the backup of that course.

So ran my extract script.   And then discovered I needed to run it twice.

1st so I could get 'regular' files extracted and archived by humanly recognizable names.  Those were .docs, .ppts, mov, pdf etc., mac screen shot files, etc.

Thar archive 2.6+ Gig

and a 2nd so I could extract what appears to be images use in quizzes (exaamview, etc..).

That archive 84+Meg

Sue has been given instructions on how to down load those.

It looks more an more like she will have to re-contruct courses from scratch but at least she has what files were contained in the course IF she can't find a local copy of those ... or, at least, the majority of those.

One of these days an Admin tool will be built that enables the teacher or the siite admin to browse (NOT edit) all fhe files associated with a course in the Moodle Admin UI.   Oh, wait ... we'll have to get Moodle Association members to vote on that, now won't we. :\

'spirit of sharing', Ken


In reply to Ken Task

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

This is a buried 'footnote' that will be leaving folks scratching their heads ... but ... so be it.

What has happened to Sue here is becoming or has become common in K12 arena me thinks - entity decision to drop Moodle and use something else - Google Classrom in this case ... Edmodo in many others.   IF anyone is 'keeping score' or concerned about 'Moodle Market Share' or a bean count ... it means 6 High Schools, consisting of X teachers and students ... numbers are not that small ... will be using something else.   Significant ... not really ... but the total is ... and the future ramifications as well.    The students themselves will be making their their own choices soon enough as actual consumers ... ie, they pay the bill, etc.   And they will also eventually enter the work force bringing along their experiences.   Soon enough some will be influencers where they work or move upwards  to decision making positions .. in less than a generation, the entire 'picture' of online learning can and will change.

Historically speaking ... I don't think Novell saw it coming ... or just couldn't believe it.   That's just one example.

What of Moodle?

'spirit of sharing', Ken



In reply to Ken Task

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Ken, thanks for your 2 updates.

In the first one, I do see that you mention "mov" files. Do you have a sense of their file sizes compared to the overall ~1GB?

In your second post, you make me wonder what Google Classroom and Edmondo offer?  I don't have the time to explore yet, but you have made me wonder.  Have you noticed what they do well?

I also wonder how "students will be making their own choices?"  I have never seen this happen, but I can be missing something.  I see that either administrators or instructors make the choices.  What I have tried to react to is the students who decide to use their PC, Mac, table, smartphone as their "course access" device. So far, Moodle is better than the other major LMSs (BCD), but the (currently) smaller LMSs might support all of these devices.

I do appreciate your ideas.

(I used to support a Novell network.  I still have a real running copy of Lotus 1-2-3 running on my DOS virtual PC on my Mac.)

In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

.mov files really un-necessary ... hint to op that only Mac's can potentially play 'em.

You will have to do your own research on GC and Edmodo.

Students making choices ... missed the point Rick ... yes, if they take your class they have no choice in the matter.   When they become consumers ... which the are right now ... and make purchasing decisions with their own personal tech ... uhhh, like an iPhone.  That does, even with your students now, that should be considered in the overall plan of delivering e-learning ... at any level.  How did you determine that Moodle was better at supporting those devices?   Heck, one of the reasons Edmoto took off was because they already had an app for smartphone/tablets ... long before Moodle did.  Just recently, they annouced greater integration with Google GSuite and MS Office 365, etc..   Once again ... ahead of Moodle.

When those students move into the world of work and become influencers/or even decision makers they bring their personal experiences along with them ... what's not to understand about that?   Been happening already ... millen's and gen-x'ers.

The way you just now phrased 'react to students' .... hmmmm, you are aware that Moodle already tracks devices that attempts to connect to it ... and raw web server logs also ID browsers.  Without taking any survey's with users one can watch that information and actually be ahead of the game.   Pro-active ... not 'reaction'.

'spirit of sharing', Ken



In reply to Ken Task

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Good points, Ken.  We have kind of lost Sue.  What do you think she should do?

In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Have been communicating with Sue directly so she's not been lost.

Have shared with her directly ... recommendations ... suggested to her she share that back here.  But, she teaches!!! ... imagine that ... and right now doesn't have time .... maybe this weekend.

'spirit of sharing', Ken


In reply to Ken Task

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Okay.  Sue is in good hands.  

Yep, I know about teaching and how it goes.  I too am swamped right now, too.  I find a little time to keep up with friends here on moodle.org, however.

In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Sue Hallstrom -

I've spent the past hour or so trying to catch up on all the posts!  Thank you all so much for your help, interest and comments.

Google Classroom - In my opinion it is nothing more than a glorified file repository.  It does nothing of value for me other than allow many students to stream a video simultaneously - or so I'm told.  No lessons, nothing of value for assessments that I have discovered.

My eyes are too old to be grading assignments online.  I spend enough time staring at a computer screen and I'm "out" for having 150 students uploading assignments.  I'm also old-school enough that I write comments on student assignments.  I've tried the online submission route with comments.  Not one student read the on-line comments.  

That said, it looks like GC is the best option for storing PowerPoints, docs, videos. and linking to moodle.  That way we can still have access to the features of moodle that make it valuable to us.


In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by William Stewart -

Rick,

I used Edmodo for nearly 5 years from when it was relatively small at a million users and saw it develop and take off. It was extremely user-friendly in terms of the UI, took cues from a certain popular social media site that rhymes with Acebook, had universal access, etc. It was also pretty easy to use due to a fair number of limitations in what it could do. 

For example, it didn't have quizzing back then (it added it later), it didn't have any 3rd party plugins but created an API to integrate with all of the popular services and platforms like Pixton Comics, etc. They created an app store with where I think they take a 10% of purchases directly through Edmodo. They didn't really have any kind of admin role or tools because it was envisioned as a classroom solution first and foremost and never anticipated the growth/scale they have now- and then added admin tools later, though I haven't used anything in the last few years. Apps are easy to add of course for an admin or teacher.

They also have a global user community to connect with as far as teachers, and because it is one platform, you can create international classes which made the whole idea of working with others on the other side of the world pretty fantastic. I once had a blended class with our high school in Korea and one in North Carolina for 3 semesters (it was a language class).

Their target is largely K-12, and for web-enhanced classes. It wouldn't be impossible to deliver courses completely online with Edmodo, but, it wouldn't be easy.

They are also "free" insofar as they didn't charge teachers or schools to have an account with them. They were funded by venture capitalists until they could get a monetization model up and running through their app store. As for today, I don't know if that is still the case but I would guess it is.

Google Classroom started out very limited and strangely strict about how assignments and submissions worked but I haven't used it in a couple of years. It's limited to GAFE domains, which is unfortunate since I'm sure any regular teacher outside of a GAFE school would be interested in at least playing around with it. With a GAFE school, you get all of the Apps that come along with for free. Adding them/enabling them is much easier than Moodle is.

Both of these only require administration and no back end work/administration of any kind. Of course, they essentially own your data but this seems to be a trade-off for schools that otherwise can't afford these tools. And given how cuts just keep being made, I imagine it will continue. In our case, we were a private school with relatively good revenue but as a small private school at 150 students, we couldn't justify the expense of anything like Blackboard, Canvas,  etc. Moodle could have been possible but honestly given the work involved and classroom requirements, something like Edmodo (or Schoology-though I'm less a fan of Schoology since it isn't quite as intuitive) because it get's about 80% of what you want done pretty easily, and you'll come up with workarounds for the rest. 

Moodle's assessments, customization, and ability to create more web-based content and do all number of sophisticated asynchronous activities is great, but, these may not really be the goal. 


If I had to answer your initial question "what do they do well" in a single answer, I would say they are easy to use and just work. This often can't be said of Moodle unless more appropriately set up for a given program. It's similar to the Android/iOS debate. Total control or a one size fits all model.

In reply to William Stewart

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Google Classroom *was* restricted to k12 schools, but that's no longer the case - recently opened to individuals and to other entities ... there are 'catch 22's' however, which one can research.

Let's remember *most* K12 Elementary/JHS/and perhaps most HS teachers want something simple.   (that doesn't seem to describe Moodle).  Our preferences/likes/dislikes make no difference ... and neither does any research papers, etc.

I didn't say it .... teachers did.

'spirit of sharing', Ken


In reply to William Stewart

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

William, thanks much for your post and ideas.  

So where does your school stand today, if you don't mind me asking?  Are you using Moodle, Edmodo, Google Classroom, some other solution, or a combination of these?

From your description, it appears the Edmodo might provide a very good "shell" for delivering content.  But it might come up a little short for quizzes, forums, and assignments.  Maybe?

In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by William Stewart -

Rick,

It's not such a simple answer wink.

There's a lot of backstory (changing administrations, bankruptcy) for that high school (which is why I'm no longer there) but in my last year I migrated the school to a different platform called Alma (getalma.com) which I absolutely loved as a solution for that type of school. It combined a basic LMS with a basic SIS. You could create a student database, run reports, scheduling, etc. And the price was maybe $100 a year for the student population. The visual design was also excellent-as my former boss would often say, "even I can use this!". To this day he still considers this one of my best decisions for the school lol.

Edmodo was great but it lacks any real kind of SIS functionality. We were using Edmodo with PowerSchool, but PowerSchool was way overkill for the needs of a 150 student school, hence me researching and ultimately choosing Alma. You'll see my post below about the type of classes though and these were K-12 face-to-face web facilitated and Alma fit what we needed perfectly on so many levels. Stuff Alma couldn't do we did with GAFE.

As a GAFE school, we had access to Google Classroom which I did play around with. It mimics the wall style feed of information that Edmodo does, but I found it difficult (i.e. too restrictive) in the way it handled assignments versus simply using a tool like Doctopus and Goobric. I absolutely loved those two on top of Google Drive rather than the classroom suite. But, time has gone one and I don't really know how it's changed.

I've also used Canvas as an instructor, Blackboard as a student/instructor, Schoology as an instructor, and on the rabbit hole goes wink. This is of where my academic background is however (MS Instructional Design & Technology and EdD Educational Technology - Online Education focus).

Edmodo needs to be used in tandem with some kind of SIS. Schoology has integration into PS but this costs $$, as does the enterprise version of Schoology.

I know Moodle can do payments and some basic SIS functions but this doesn't really work for us here in Korea for example. We simply have a separate custom built one that integrates with all of the Korean payment services, etc.

Edmodo doesn't have a robust quizzing feature (neither does Google), but, if you don't need a robust one like Moodle, Canvas, or Blackboard, then it works. Google Forms have improved tremendously over the last couple of years, but even before that with Flubaroo, they were better suited to simpler and shorter assessments.

Edmodo doesn't have forums of any kind per se, you can create groups/filters to sort of mimic a forum. Assignments are basic with due dates, file submissions, etc., but you can't create a web page/prompt that might be related to that assignment. You'd just have to link to those resources. File management within Edmodo traditionally was a bit difficult, though they have integrated with Google Drive some time ago, and now a number of other services.

If you look into the definition of the spectrum of class types with "technology" from Allen and Seaman (2014), you'' get:


0% Traditional Course where no online technology used — content is delivered in writing or orally. 

1 to 29% Web Facilitated Course that uses web-based technology to facilitate what is essentially a face-to-face course. May use a course management system (CMS) or web pages to post the syllabus and assignments. 

30 to 79% Blended/Hybrid Course that blends online and face-to-face delivery. A substantial proportion of the content is delivered online, typically uses online discussions, and typically has a reduced number of face-to-face meetings.

 80+% Online A course where most or all of the content is delivered online. Typically have no face-to-face meetings

Further reading if you like: http://www.onlinelearningsurvey.com/reports/gradechange.pdf

You'll find that all of the CMS/LMS's (and even BMS-Behavior Management aka Class Dojo) will fall into some part of that spectrum well, and then of course somewhere in between. I think Moodle is perfect for the upper part of Blended/Hybrid and Fully Online (per this definition) whereas Edmodo is much better suited to the lower end of Blended/Hybrid and Web Facilitated. These are very loose approximations, though wink.

In reply to William Stewart

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

William, thanks for your reply.  You have some great experience with all of these products.

I am into the Blended/Hybrid and Fully Online category, so maybe this is why Moodle works well for me.  I also have become a bit demanding, probably because I have used a variety of these products over the last 15 years (Blackboard, WebCT, Desire2Learn, Canvas, and Moodle.)

For my courses, I need a very strong Quizzing system, I use a lot of Discussions, and I use Assignments.  I am finding Moodle to be superior in Quizzing and Discussions.  Relative to Assignments and how I grade assignments, Moodle seems on par or slightly ahead of its competitors.

I take time to invest myself with these other systems and with moodle.  For my demands, so far Moodle is working well.

In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by William Stewart -

Rick,

Our program is similar in that we rely heavily on the assessments, delivery of multimedia resources, and need a way to incorporate recordings into assignments. We would need something like Canvas, Blackboard, or Moodle over the others. We always have to start with what we want to achieve and then find the tools that help us do that wink. Moodle has definitely grown on me (it wasn't love at first sight) so I can appreciate the high bar to overcome for effective use of the platform.

In reply to William Stewart

Re: How to shrink a Moodle Backup file (.mbz)?

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

William, we might be on parallel tracks.  I have this mindset too.  Find the best tools to delivery quality education, blend them together to make learning easy for the students, and for us, well it might take some learning.

My materials are dispersed across the Internet.  I could not rely on any one product for everything. Some administrators believe that they can pick an LMS, and that it will do everything for all faculty.

Actually, I stumbled upon moodle when the Blackboard Discussion Boards were not working well for me.  I was just looking for a replacement to Blackboard discussions.  I got a whole lot more, with Moodle.  I couldn't do any paid-for LMS, and many of these other alternatives did not exist.