One of the projects for Moodle 3.2 is a new theme. I previously posted about this in the Future Major Features forum, but I am now starting the project and have begun writing the specifications.
See https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Theme_And_Navigation_Project_3.2 for the specification and MDL-55070 is the Epic containing all the tasks for the project.
One of the major proposals is that the new theme will be based on Bootstrap 4 to give it the longest supported lifetype and modern features. This will impact on the supported browsers for 3.2 which will have to align with bootstrap 4 browser support.
Hi Damyon,
Thanks for letting us know what's happening with Moodle Themes.
I have not checked out the links yet , so my next question may be already answered in the Documentation you linked to. I will ask all the same.
Are we to assume then that Bootstrabase will be depreciated over time or will Bootstrp4 be a separate entity working along side?
Thanks
Mary
Hi,
- Criteria for success: The new moodle theme should look visually distinct. There should only be a minimum amount of custom styling for themers to override when extending this theme
What is the aim here? To make it easier or to limit the amount of customisation possible?
Possibly there should actually be 2 - as with Clean and More (or actually there are 3 there, with bootstrapbase). A 'base' theme that can form the foundation of a new series of themes for developers and those who want their own look/feel/functionality, and a ready to use 'out of the box' standard theme with just enough settings to allow a significant number of users to just select it, tweak a couple of settings and have their branded site.
Don't try to make one theme do both jobs, would be my suggestion.
On a separate note - mustache templating was brought into Moodle, supposedly because it would improve theming, so hopefully we'll see this/these new themes modelling that.
Hi Richard,
I personally think that if you read between the lines, and look at this from a different perspective, a kind of the switch here is to make Moodle work as THE THEME itself. And 'themes' as WE know them now will in actual fact just be a restyle of the CSS that styles the original HTML of the pages to make them look different, much the same as the CSS Zen Garden.
I personally think, and this is sheer guess work, it is going to look beautiful when it is done as HQ have posiblely got some EXPERT UI Web Design Guru/s on board and we are just going to have to wait and see.what s/he/they come up with.
You have to stay open minded, you can not, should not, look on the dark side as we do not know what direction we are going in. Stay focused, and be ready to embrace change, do not hide from it, but most of all be positive.
Just my take on things.
Cheers
Mary
"You have to stay open minded, you can not, should not, look on the dark side as we do not know what direction we are going in. Stay focused, and be ready to embrace change, do not hide from it, but most of all be positive."
If I have anywhere given a negative impression then I would genuinely regret that - I dont see one anywhere in what I've written.
A CSSZenGarden approach (as you first introduced me to for themes in 1.9!) would be wonderful for the styling, but we all know as well that there is so much functionality in themes these days, just like blocks. It probably shouldn't be there and if HQ can find a way to preserve/improve the ways we can add these "widgets" - awesomebar, radial completion/grades, etc, etc then that would be a huge step forward in both simplifying (and improving the look of) themes and removing some of the unnecessary blocks. I really hope that's not a negative view point - I really believe, as I have in the past, that I'm putting forward positive ideas about taking things forward from where they are already. Existing functionality from blocks and themes is needed, but so is a new way of incorporating that functionality to improve the user experience!I for one am really looking forward to the new theme(s) and what we can do with them. I really believe that a lot of the work that's been done by Fernando, Gareth, Chris and others (yourself, Julian, Danny, Shaun to name only a few) has been wonderful over the life and growth of Moodle2 and has added a lot to Moodle and I really want that to continue - whether its within Themes, or a new "widgets" plugin type or method, I really am not bothered, I just love to see and be involved in some of the innovation that has been a feature of themes over the last few years.
Hi Richard,
I was rather hoping you would have read what I wrote differently, it was certainly not a criticism, but more of a "lets look on the bright side". because I was thinking back to how you were when Bootstrap was originally woven into Moodle, you were at that time very much opposed and very upset. I don't want you to get like that again.
Mary
OK, apologies if I have misread what you wrote, it certainly came across (to me) as a direct reply to what I had written and therefore as highlighting my comments as negative, but more than happy to accept it wasn't meant that way.
With regard to the implementation of Bootstrap, yes I opposed the way it was being done (and many still have that ongoing debate about framework agnostic/total adoption of Bootstrap/your own 'Moodle framework' suggestion) while those at the Dublin MoodleMoot and in the (at the time BS3) theme discussion, including David Scotson with whom some of those discussions were had at the time, may recall my open comments that not only was I opposed at the time, but once it was implemented I backed it 100% as the way to move forward and encouraged others to do the same.
Did write a whole justification of critical questioning and a positive collaborative approach to getting to the best solution - but to be honest, I found it TL;DR and boring, mysefl (and I wrote it) so just a quick not to reinforce -
My intention, as ever, is to be POSITIVE and raise questions with a view to finding solutions, not to treat them as roadblocks.
Richard
With regard to the implementation of Bootstrap, yes I opposed the way it was being done (and many still have that ongoing debate about framework agnostic/total adoption of Bootstrap/your own 'Moodle framework' suggestion) while those at the Dublin MoodleMoot and in the (at the time BS3) theme discussion, including David Scotson with whom some of those discussions were had at the time, may recall my open comments that not only was I opposed at the time, but once it was implemented I backed it 100% as the way to move forward and encouraged others to do the same.
Did write a whole justification of critical questioning and a positive collaborative approach to getting to the best solution - but to be honest, I found it TL;DR and boring, mysefl (and I wrote it) so just a quick not to reinforce -
My intention, as ever, is to be POSITIVE and raise questions with a view to finding solutions, not to treat them as roadblocks.
Richard
Contrary to what should be believed as the attitude to take, being negative when it comes to software is a positive thing. This means that you are always asking "Have I made a fault / Is there anything wrong with the design / Is there a fault with the code"? So you complete something, then you be negative in order to review and identify any human errors that have crept in. This is a good thing, it means that you are professional enough to question yourself and reflect, to have the determination to improve the quality of the solution by actively looking for mistakes.
Constructive negative criticism identifies potential flaws before they become an issue later on to the user of the software.
Question everything. Accept nothing. Peer review and validate. That is the scientific method and this is 'Computer Science'.
Gareth that is a great philosophical statement. However if you apply any kind of logic to that statement with respect to the negative and positive characteristics of human nature, you will always find people at loggerheads. A little like what is happening to this country right now.
Hi Mary,
To be honest, its not really a philosophical statement but something taught on my MSc so that I may become a better software engineer.
Cheers,
Gareth
That's interesting to know Gareth, however I think you will find that any type of questioning is based on philosophical discussions since the beginning of time. We, meaning the whole human race, are still learning.
The most interesting thing I learnt when I was doing my first degree, was mathematical modelling using FORTRAN. That was a real big learning curve. Learning to test programs was as difficult as learning to write them.
Cheers
Mary
Not just Computer Science and software Gareth, its the root of academic critical thinking and collaborative working - questioning, developing and collaborating to get a better end result for everyone.
Dear Moodle,
I do hope that the Frontpage of the new theme will change?
I am glad that the blocks are on their way out. We could do with perhaps a rewrite of the block renderer and make them into interactive 'cards'.
Some split contents might be good too. Where one part of the content is static and the other scrollable without the horrid scroller tab. Macs are good in that respect as all scrolls are sensative to touch.
I hope that there will be a demo theme sometime soon, even if it is just in HTML it would be a start.
thanks
Mary
Moodle Dev Community Meeting - New Theme for 3.2
Please join Martin and the HQ dev team for an online meeting to discuss the new theme in development for Moodle 3.2. The meeting is scheduled for Friday, 8 July Friday, at 07:00:00 GMT. We would like this to be a collaborative development project with community involvement.
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Moodle+Dev+Community+Meeting+-+New+Theme+for+3.2&iso=20160708T07&p1=%3A
The meeting will take place on "zoom". See below for meeting details.
Regards, Damyon
===
Moodle Meeting is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android: https://zoom.us/j/397419685
Or iPhone one-tap (US Toll): +16465588656,397419685# or +14086380968,397419685#
Or Telephone:
Dial: +1 646 558 8656 (US Toll) or +1 408 638 0968 (US Toll)
Meeting ID: 397 419 685
International numbers available: https://zoom.us/zoomconference?m=csajZB3ucB0hAy3IwvI5UaJvPMCVrlh6
Please join Martin and the HQ dev team for an online meeting to discuss the new theme in development for Moodle 3.2. The meeting is scheduled for Friday, 8 July Friday, at 07:00:00 GMT. We would like this to be a collaborative development project with community involvement.
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Moodle+Dev+Community+Meeting+-+New+Theme+for+3.2&iso=20160708T07&p1=%3A
The meeting will take place on "zoom". See below for meeting details.
Regards, Damyon
===
Moodle Meeting is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android: https://zoom.us/j/397419685
Or iPhone one-tap (US Toll): +16465588656,397419685# or +14086380968,397419685#
Or Telephone:
Dial: +1 646 558 8656 (US Toll) or +1 408 638 0968 (US Toll)
Meeting ID: 397 419 685
International numbers available: https://zoom.us/zoomconference?m=csajZB3ucB0hAy3IwvI5UaJvPMCVrlh6
Hi Damyon, Do you know if the meeting will be recorded for any of us who can't make it live?
Thanks
Yes - I'll make sure it gets recorded.
Thanks Damyon and hi all. I'll be leading the meeting from the Francophone Moodlemoot in Sierre, Switzerland where I am at the moment.
I don't expect that we're going to get a lot DONE at this meeting itself, but I did want to get some of the interested parties together so we can hear each other, agree on the parameters and start to work out what's going to happen over the next few months before the freeze for Moodle 3.2.
This document is the starting point.
Some of it is about theme infrastructure in general, but some of it is about required core changes to navigational elements, but the most important part of it for me is that we have a new default theme that provides a superior out-of-the-box experience for 3.2 and later, so I hope we can all pull together to make this a reality.
I know a lot of you have worked on some amazing themes for Moodle. This one can not hit every one of the goals that those have strived for. But it should be a huge step forward that raises the baseline of what we expect in Moodle's interface.
There appears to be a problem when logging into ZOOM
I am getting a message to say that the meeting was at 4am to 5am on the 4/7/2016
The meeting was interesting. And it was nice to see some of the people writing in the forums.
One concern I have after the end of the meeting is if the new theme may become a »cosmetic« change or if the long needed fundamental cleanup work of Moodle core code will be worked on.
To add for example Bootstrap4 on top of the existing code with all the needed intermediate mapping rules does not look future prove to me. I think it would help more to go with Bootstrap4 and use the ids and classes defined in Bootstrap4. It will help make the code cleaner and will come with detailed documentation.
And there was hardly a word about the use of Mustache templates in the new theme. I hope the theme will use templates extensively.
Hi Urs,
I found that when listening to Martin, as he talked and scrolled through the long list of proposals and targets, did at times, come across as not really being that familiar with Moodle as we see it.
The Moodle team (Damyon & Co), on the other hand, were very much aware what direction they are heading in, and know what they have to do. And yet when listening to the MoodleRoom guys. whose ideas were spot on, I got the distinct impression that much of what they said was not really getting through to Martin.
Was it me or did others get this impression too?
It looks like the bits we need to make themes look good will not be done until 3.2.1.
That said...if the Moodle team get anywhere near finishing this NewTheme, then they will see first hand how hard it is to get stuff to display nicely.
So I think the old saying, "The proof of the pudding is in the eating", is about right in this context.
Mary
Where is the video recording of this please?
Hi Gareth,
Martin said in his closing speech that he would be looking at the recording and hopes to get it ready in the next few days, when he gets back to Perth.
Thanks Mary.
Hi,
I just wondered if the recording had been release anywhere yet.
I was unable to join but would be great to listen to the recording to catch up.
Many Thanks
Callum
Using bootstrap 4 sounds great.
Really looking forward to seeing standardised html & js using bootstrap elements across moodle to make it faster and easier for developers and theme designers, along with creating a better unified ui for the end users.
I think there are already a number of renderers in open source themes which use bs markup, css and js which could be pulled into this project quite quickly?
@damyon - is there any specific ticket we could help by adding these to?
Cheers
Stuart
Making Moodle output bootstrap markup would be the number 1 priority as part of any commitment to Bootstrap. I'd start by making lib/templates contain mustache templates for every bootstrap component.
I'd then audit all core moodle markup and make sure that it uses these templates instead of ad-hoc and inconsistent markup.
This would be a big job, but personally I think it would be important to do this BEFORE starting on a Bootstrap 4 template.
The epic is MDL-55070 and the issue with the wip branch is MDL-55071.
I just updated the prototype site with a bunch of changes including custom theme settings - an integrated "auto-prefixer" for post-processing the compiled scss, more template around the place. I also put a not-quite finished patch on there that is not in the main branch yet which converts every mform element to a mustache template nicely styled with bootstrap 4. As we go through we are deleting "tons" of old CSS.
The new custom theme settings let you directly modify the sass default variables for bootstrap - feel free to try it out. I put a small set of custom colours there but this should give you the power to drop in "bootswatches" when people start writing them for bootstrap 4.
Note you can login as an admin and play with the new theme settings. Use admin / test.
What would be the best way to report more RTL issues?
Damyon,
I am not seeing any of these settings, or custom colours for that matter, other than the one and only setting that appears to change links colour only.
Also was thinking of opening a tracker to fix the padding-left: 21px and text-indent -21px in CSS for Admin settings block but thought better of it if these are going to be dropped eventually.
EDIT: I missed seeing the TABS where the Advanced settings are! Silly me! 
Something we still need to decide on for the new Theme is the name. Suggestions are most welcome as I am terrible at naming things (Lucky I had my wife to help name the kids).
I don't think "theme_noname" is catchy enough
Name it Moodleweiss from MOODLE and Edelweiss :D
PRIMAVERA
Moooove Over
(Sorry, watching a current affairs program on the dairy industry here )
WIESEUP
theme_wieseup
When the name for the 'Clean' theme was being discussed there was a whole list of other names, does that list still exist somewhere and if so could one of the alternatives be used?
Or pick a name that matches the ethos / desires of the theme?
Or perhaps:
- thirtytwo
- Friesian / Holstein - Moodle Cow related.
- Clear - evolution of Clean.
- Crisp - another evolution of Clean.
- Cretaceous
- Cream
- Crumpet
- Cake
- Crystal
?
"Themey McThemeFace"
Open
Fresh
Less
Koala
Joey
+1 for Koala!
Yes I like koala too
Happy I could contribute something!
We have 'clean', then 'more'. 'fresh' sounds better to me.
Presets have landed!
I have just updated the branch and the prototype site with support for "presets".
What is a "preset" ? - It's a bunch of sass that gets included before and after the bootstrap/moodle sass - so you can change almost anything.
"This sounds suspiciously like bootswatches" - yes it does.
In fact there is a CLI script in the theme to convert a "bootstrap 3 bootswatch" into one of these presets for bootstrap 4 - and this is how I created the first 3 presets ("flatly, readable and paper"). For info on the cli script see "theme/noname/cli/import-bootswatch.php".
Along side these bootswatch presets we would like to ship 3.2 with a community made awesome preset file as the default look for the theme. If anyone is keen to have a go - checkout the new theme and replace one of the existing preset files. When it's ready please post it here for everyone to see.
Cheers - Damyon
Excellent!
I have a "profiles" hack in some of my themes that presets should replace rather well
Hopefully this isn't out of scope, but it would be great if "Theme settings allowed at a course and category context" (MDL-32469) could be implemented as part of this project. This would be similar to "Add lots of settings to the new theme so it can be used for many sites without installing a child-theme" - but replacing "sites" with "courses".
Currently I have whole themes (or child themes) just so I can have different brand colours and logos between various courses on the same site.
I started working on a fix, but it looked like it would involve major changes to how courses are represented in the code, which I figured exceeded my time and commit rights
Cheers,
Dave.
Hi Damon, I am unfamiliar with the term "bunch of sass*", is it a json file with settings like the thingy that Jason Hunt does with Generico. If so this seems like a lovely idea that could be used elsewhere, e.g. loading presets into LDAP configuration etc, etc.
Also for others reading this the prototypes site can be found at
(*unless it was a sharp tongued dancer from a 1930's movie which seems unlikely)
@Marcus I don't understand a lot of what those Australians say You might be right about bunch of sass but when I googled it, it came up with a load of images of guns and stuff...
For SASS see: http://sass-lang.com/.
Its another form of CSS mark-up similar to LESS but looks more floral...lol
Hi Damyon...I may have a Preset ready by tonight. I've just been creating one for Morecandy, and came across what I think is an ERROR in the Boost settings for the Brand Color!!!
The 'brandcolor' according to theme/boost/lib.php is down as being equal to $brand-primary, which according to Bootstrap/variables is #0275d8 (a lovely shade of blue). However 'brandcolor' as per the settings page is down as being #373A3C which in the Bootstrap variables is $gray-dark. (depressingly ugly)
Should I open a tracker for this and fix it?
Cheers
Mary
Hi Mary - yes please open an issue for it. I have been wondering why I get boring link colors sometimes but haven't looked into it.
Hi Damyon,
In response to your call for Presets for Moodle 3.2, here is a link to one I have been working on these last few days. https://github.com/lazydaisy/my-moodle-presets/blob/master/preset-morecandy/preset-morecandy.scss
Thanks
Mary
Thanks Mary it looks really interesting - I'll take a look at getting it into the core list soon.
Martin chose a name for the new theme. It's now called "Boost" (hope you like it).
I just pushed a new branch to the prototype site with some changes to the themes block region. If you are keen, please try it out and report back here.
http://prototype.moodle.net/theme/
admin / test
Hi Damyon,
I just took a brief look and my initial thoughts went something like...umm...well this needs some TLC...
I found a few glitches which need attention like the editing icon placing in the blocks. Also I think we can do away with the joint gear/carat icon and just use the gear icon on its own.
But generally I think you are on the right track.
Thanks fro the updates...much appreciated!
Mary
I noticed the manual and the automatic completion boxes are not aligned. Is this a known issue or should I file a tracker report for it? 
Also with editing turned on they overlap:
Yes please file bugs for anything that looks wonky (and please send patches too - based on MDL-55071!). If you make sure you create issues in the MDL-55070 Epic they won't get lost in tracker.
(Note - we have not spent much time fixing visual glitches yet, we had to get all the background work done first).
Will the new theme make it possible to remove the Navigation and Admin blocks from the sidebar? Will those links be placed in the page?
And is the default blocks hidden or visible?
Does the status persist as a user preference across sessions?
Is the show status the same for all pages for that user?
Default is visible and the status does persist as a user preference.
Yes it does hide/show for all pages for that user.
I just pushed another change which implements "Alternate Navigation".
This is a theme setting which can be switched on/off that adds "contextual" links directly to each page and breadcrumb. This should let you get around without using the navigation/settings blocks (so you can keep that drawer closed).
This is awesome! Great work so far. Will the contextual menu appear in the drop-down for activities. It seems to appear on the left of the activity in the default skin for boost. I attached a screenshot. Ideally these links would all appear within the breadcrumbs for consistency. It would also train users to look in one area. With the links on the left they do some navigation on the top and then some stuff on the side. Just combine it so that everything is in one area. It is also nicer without the links on the left as this would allow the content to remain full screen.
Are you planning to address the most commonly raised navigation issue i.e. how to to get back to the course page? On prototype this appears to still require the user to click the short name in the navigation bar.
Similarly how to get to the level "above" e.g. from forum post to forum.
Is this in the version that made it into core (3.2 alpha) this week?
If so, can you tell me how to find it please as I seem to be missing it. I'm using 3.2dev (Build: 20160929)
Thanks
Richard
It's the master branch in Moodle GitHub.
Yes, that's what I've got from a fresh pull of Moodle3.2dev, so I have theme_boost, no problem there, but I can't find this extra feature about the navigation.
$plugin->version = 2016071101;
$plugin->requires = 2016070700;
$plugin->component = 'theme_boost';
Is it still in peer review - is it this one? MDL-55074
I'm not sure Mary - Damyon mentions it as a theme setting https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=335638#p1371144 so I'd thought to see it when Boost was included in 3.2dev, but can't find it anywhere. Maybe its waiting for MDL-55074 to be implemented 
R
R
Well just to confirm - I don't see this setting (which I will propose gets called alternative and not alternate ) in the QA site which as recent as you can get. But then the tracker issue we're referencing hasn't been integrated yet (still waiting for peer review) so I don't expect to see it there yet.
Try reading this again! https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=335638#p1372925
Looks like you probably missed the small print.
If you read the tracker you will see they were fairly racing and fast running out of time and having lots of conflicts to boot.
It was fantastic to watch...and read
No, I didn't miss the small print. What I may have done is mis-interpreted Damyon's post as having pushed this feature into theme_boost a week BEFORE it was integrated and therefore mistakenly believed it would have been part of that initial theme integration without realising it was being pushed as a separate issue.
Thanks to Mary C for pointing that out.
Richard
Yes - what is on prototype is not what was sent for integration. We are still discussing and designing the navigation and blocks layout. Any feedback / suggestions there are more than welcome.
Hats off to the team working on this! I love the direction it is moving. This single page concept is really nice. I think you are right on target for what Moodle should look like. Keep it up. I can't wait to see the final product.
Anyone:
Is there an install of Moodle 3.2 Dev with some of this new themes stuff that I can have a look at?
-Derek
Given: MDL-55071, then https://github.com/damyon/moodle/tree/MDL-55071-master, but may or not work as still being reviewed. However, MDL-55070 points to http://prototype.moodle.net/theme/.
Mentioning this again because I think it has been lost in the long discussion:
If any themers would like to have a go at making a preset we would love to ship a preset from the community with 3.2
I realise there are no dev docs for presets yet - but they are exactly the same concept as a bootswatch.
Step 1. Make an empty file in theme/boost/scss/preset-amazeballs.scss
Step 2. Add the lang string in theme/boost/lang/en/theme_boost.php:
$string['presetamazeballs'] = 'Amaze Balls!';
Step 3. Fill the preset file with SCSS goodness to design your own style.
Example:
// Some pre-scss, do things like change variables etc (see theme/boost/scss/bootstrap/_variables.scss for a full list).
$enable-shadows: true; // This is an example.
@import "moodle"; // This line is the only thing you are required to do in a preset. Without this you won't have a good time
// Some post scss. Extra tweaking goes here and will overrule styles from moodle.scss (because they are last)
fieldset { background-color: pink; } // I love pink!
After looking at my example you can probably see why I want to leave this to the community of expert themers!
That's assuming the Expert Themers know how to markup using SCSS.
Which rules me out unless it's easy...which it does look to be from the examples I have seen so far.
Hi Damyon,
Interesting, but what I find frustrating is step 2 in that its not really modular. Its the only place in the steps here for presets where the preset is not encapsulated in its own area. You have to modify a file that contains attributes that pertain to the main element. Therefore you have separation of concept outside of the 'object'. It would be really good if strings in 'sub-components' (as presets appear to be) are contained outside of the parent component and in the component itself. Then you would not have a potential version control issue with conflicts etc. And indeed you could then just add / remove presets without having to edit any files.
This 'enhancement' could also pave the way for 'theme components' which would be transferable between themes. Unlike now where you're stuck with the functionality the theme provides and theme developers have to duplicate the same thing in different themes. For example, the Bootstrap carousel with associated text and file settings along with its strings.
G
Where is this Boost theme?
Yes - it's at https://github.com/damyon/moodle/tree/MDL-55071-master/theme/boost right now, but I hope it will land in integration master this week.
Yep! I see Dan is on with it now
Hi,
theme_boost just landed into moodle.git
Still plenty of work going on in MDL-55070 issues though!
Dan
In case they are useful to anyone - although they are more about me experimenting and learning this 'mustache' stuff and trying things out with the new theme...
I've just added two child themes for boost to my github
1. theme_stageone is a very minimalist child. It's intended for those busy teachers who are happy to add a css style sheet but haven't yet got around to looking at SCSS and don't want to play with layouts and templates etc. https://github.com/roelmann/moodle-theme_stageone
2. theme_booster is a base to play with in developing a new 'flexibase' based on boost and other child themes which don't just change look and feel but to begin to play with layouts and features. https://github.com/roelmann/moodle-theme_booster
Yes I realise the aim of boost is to allow people to do things like change the look and feel in the settings, and straight css can be added as scss in that settings, so 'stageone' probably isn't of much use to anyone except as a learning experience for me, but as I said these were about me experimenting, learning and playing with creating a child theme and having done that, sharing back to the community.
If they are useful, great, if not... Well, I found it an interesting few hours and will hopefully start to learn more about the new layer of templating.
Richard
Thanks for looking at these bleeding edge changes and sharing your work Richard!
1. theme_stageone is a very minimalist child. It's intended for those busy teachers who are happy to add a cssstyle sheet but haven't yet got around to looking at SCSS and don't want to play with layouts and templates etc.
I would like to see us supporting those teachers through the UI options of boost - what will this child theme bring over that?
Very little - if anything at all Dan, as I think (or hope) I acknowledged in my post, ("so 'stageone' probably isn't of much use to anyone except as a learning experience for me") and fully agree that the aim going forward should be to encourage use of UI settings as they are and as they develop The entire purpose was my learning (on the way to creating a 'boost' version of Flexibase as my main goal) and then simply sharing the stages of that work with anyone else who may be interested, they are certainly not intended to bypass the excellent work being done on things like the presets!
Call it a social constructivist learning experience for me Creating something and sharing it with the community. On the same lines I'm about half way through converting the rest of the bootswatch examples into presets and will put those up on my github too (unless someone else posts them first), as something that users will be able to add to the theme and then use through the UI
Speaking of which - and I'm on my phone currently so can't check my memory - Is there, or are there any plans to implement a preset upload setting? I know they can be picked from the list, but if someone doesn't have server access to add a new preset, can one be added as a file (maybe drag and drop) rather than copying and pasting the entire thing into the scss setting (which is certainly a viable option too)?
R
First - thankyou for trying to create a child theme from this new base theme. I hope this theme, or one similar will the the starting point for many cool themes in future. Any info you can provide on the good / bad things you found while extending this theme will be great for us to hear now.
We will keep changing this theme before code freeze - then it should settle down alot.
Second - about presets - originally they were conceived as a way to give non-themers a few varying looks without having to install a new theme - or change a ton of settings and consider how those changed individual colors, etc all worked together.
The advanced themers are going to use the scss settings.
We can probably provide a few more color settings to cater for the middle ground users.
About sharing presets - I'm concerned about this even though several people have asked for it. Are we creating something new that is not as good as what we already have? Any theme dev can easily create a child theme utilising a new preset. The benefit is you get to share it on the plugins DB with all the reviews / previews / comments / statistics that go with it. If we invent some new infrastructure for sharing presets - it is a new thing which is not a theme, and we have to build a bunch of new infrastructure to support it.
Maybe we should just allow uploading of presets via a file upload setting ?
Happy to hear thoughts about all of this.
The prototype site has been updated again today.
We have made big changes to the blocks / navigation now. We are still refining / testing them - but this is much closer to the end result we want.
If you want to see which branch this is - the code is on MDL-55074.
I'm not convinced that hiding everything away behind generic buttons solves all the problems. It currently feels very counter intuitive to me. What is on the right? What is on the left?
Maybe I'm just feeling resistance to change (though it's not my style) but the prototype feels like the best way to keep the users on Clean.
I actually preferred the previous 'block hiding' iteration - the header is getting quite busy now, it feels less bold.
I do really like the sliding 'trays' - it keeps the blocks available and yet moves them off the main screen. It also makes me feel that those users who do make use of docking would not feel the loss of that feature quite so keenly (given that boost does not currently support docking) as part of the reason for that is to move the blocks off the main screen but keep them easily available (or its part of the reason for my use of the dock anyway )
I'm not sure about the icons used or about them being in the header though - definitely the 'hamburger' one has been more commonly used throughout the last few versions of Moodle as the one for the responsive, small screen version of the custommenu etc. But maybe those particular icons will not be the final ones anyway?
Another option to move them out of the header could be a small floating 'tab' on each side - click to pull the tray out in the same way as the current button works?
This takes some getting used to. Holy Cow! It is a BIG change even from the last prototype.
Here is what I love:
- Course section menu on the left for quick navigating inside a course. This combined with the breadcrumbs is very intuitive.
- Love the Course Edit Settings icon and drop down in the title area. That creates one spot on the page where teachers will focus for turning editing on and making changes/managing their course.
- Love that the menu bar is sticky at the top.
- Navigation seems very intuitive now once you forget how Moodle previously used navigation. There was a comfort level of how things were and how they are now with this theme. I think now will make better sense to new users.
Things that could be better:
- Search forums replaces the edit button. I hate this being located up in the Course Title/breadcrumb area. That area should be for administrative/teacher changes and breadcrumbs
- Site administration now seems like there are too many clicks and hoping back and forth to that search page. Maybe when entering Site Administration the left sidebar could replicate Course Section style navigation for each area of the Site Admin. That might help with going up and down the site admin menu page. Search is nice but sometimes not practical when hopping from page to page within a section such as users or appearance for a theme.
- Three columns (even if hidden) is just too much I find the buttons to show and hide at the top of the page clumsy. Most websites use the upper right to display the hamburger icon when responsive. What I would do is make a drawer that slides down from the Course Title area near the top. This could show course blocks in a grid-like fashion full screen(width) when a button is pressed. To me, this would be an intuitive place to put course blocks. Having three columns is just too much. Having two buttons in the top sticky bar is just too much. One button is acceptable. Move the blocks into a drawer that slides up and down just like the Pioneer theme when you click the button to show grades inside a course.
My idea for moving the widgets from the right side of the page to a center location might look something like the attached image. You could utilize multiple columns for the widgets and allow the teacher to organize and add the widgets into a sliding drawer that would move up and down from the Course Title area of the page with the click of a button. This might offer developers more freedom to create more robust widgets if there is more room to work with for displaying data to the students.
Keeping widgets on the right side is holding onto the idea of three columns for a page layout. This solution offered here might open up new possibilities for widgets and not limit them to a single column.
Taking this concept of a course dashboard one step further and you could provide even more data to the student such as course announcements, latest graded items, other course alerts, and upcoming events/assignments.
Just my 2 cents.
I just was taking a quick look today and found several problems so not sure if the theme is updated or not.
I was testing from my mobile and I got a messy screen where after tap twice the screen the sidebars disappear and the main content is displayed. This is not a good start for a theme where the user must discover that after tap the screen can see the main content.
That said, the idea of 3 columns is not good IMHO. As said before is too much. 2 columns is usually enough not only in moodle. The right sidebar used for blocks is not needed because blocks can be show below main content. In a desktop view, maybe the central region could be a better idea than a sidebar.
The button related the right sidebar is also confusing. The accepted standard is the burger (pushed by the Material Design concept from Google) so the "other button" could be more clear (the same used in Adaptable probably is less confusing users). I think move the blocks to the bottom would be better idea.
The general concept is really good and using BS4 will open the future to moodle themes.
I will try to have more free time to test a course in the next days.
More changes on the prototype site today - we are still refining the blocks and navigation.
This is a very nice enhancement. I like the use of the gear for editing and activity menus! FYI: Book Module still shows the "Turn Editing On" button instead of the gear in the breadcrumb area.
The one thing I hear over and over is that beginning teachers want one way to get to and do a task. A consistent and intuitive way to make changes, add, and navigate is most important. This theme seems to provide that structure that is needed!
Keeping the blocks area on the right with the way you have it setup now seems nice. I didn't like it much before but am glad it is there now.
My one concern is the left navigation area. Can we just drop the "Dashboard, Site Home, calendar, private files, etc etc.." menu once in a course page? I can use the breadcrumbs to get back to the dashboard and see any of these links once I am there. These links aren't relevant once i am in a course. Having too much information often creates confusion by adding to the "where do I click". This would be a good set of links to drop and free up space for something else or just to have whitespace.
Something nice to put into the leftside menu might be the Turn Editing On button in place of the other menu. Just my 2 cents.
Agreed on Left Navigation area
Hey Damyon,
Do you plan to add Font-awesome support?
Regards
Jean-Roch Meurisse
Trying to use the new gear to edit settings on a quiz. The overflow causes an interesting behavior. Maybe the menu needs to be shortened? While I love the new gear for editing settings maybe the actual Settings menu for the quiz needs to revised so that it isn't so overwhelming. The scrolling is a little clumsy to get around.
#region-main>.card, #page-enrol-users #region-main>#filterform, .path-calendar .maincalendar #region-main>.calendar-event-panel, .path-calendar .maincalendar .eventlist #region-main>.event, .block .calendar-event-panel #region-main>.yui3-overlay-content, #region-main>#newmessageoverlay, .que #region-main>.history, .userprofile .profile_tree #region-main>section, #region-main>.groupinfobox, #region-main>.forumpost, .yui-skin-sam .yui-layout.path-mod-chat-gui_ajax #region-main>.yui-layout-unit-right, .yui-skin-sam .yui-layout.path-mod-chat-gui_ajax #region-main>.yui-layout-unit-bottom, .path-backup .mform #region-main>.grouped_settings.section_level {
overflow: auto;
}
There also seems to be a lack of consistency as to where the gear is located. Some times its in header other times its inline with the activity.
Whilst the options available in the dropdown are different depending on where you are within Moodle, knowing where it is without having to look for it will make it a lot easier to work with.
Martin asked for this specifically because it is next to the heading of the thing it relates to.
If it was always in the "Course" header you could assume it was the same list of options every time and never find the activity specific menu.
I agree wholeheartedly with not having the icon in the same spot!
That is a training issue we struggle with new teachers all the time. We tell them to look in the administration block and depending on the where you are in the course it changes what appears in the block. Very confusing for teachers new to Moodle.
I even love that fact that the site settings/management of the course is only on the homepage of the course. This creates one way and one spot to go to turn editing on and manage your course. Makes training great!
Damyon,
Thank you for all this work. New theme looks great.
I have some questions or requests. You mentioned in your original concept for the theme that you hoped to incorporate the common features that most theme's are trying to recreate.
- Will that include a [my courses] dropdown menu like Essential, BCU, and Evolve-D?
- Another major feature that I would love is the ability to add Font Awesome icons next to the new notifications and messaging icons through the GUI without having to edit files.
I really like where you are taking themes, that if your base theme is highly adaptable a non-coding administrator like myself can just build a skin for the site through a preset. I built my first theme this year, and it was a lot harder than I thought it would be, and I wasn't even trying to do much new. I did a lot of borrowing from other heavyweights for things like making my turn editing button change colors depending on the mode stolen from Evolve-D, or also from Evolve-D a good looking login screen. I gave up on making my topics/weeks collapsible like archaius because I just couldn't make it work.
Please don't dismiss the comments you have been getting about languages above and beyond CSS being a challenge.
Sincerely a non-coding Moodler
I just noticed this post Ed.
- You can of course add the [my courses] in the Moodle drop down menu. I can give more detail if you like
- FontAwsome. Good idea, but I suspect the answer will be "this is the basic theme" we don't add stuff like this.
Otherwise we would be into all sorts of other essential items like:
Logo, adjustable link colours, height adjustment of banners, footers, dropdown list of items in a course (Like all forums, all assignments etc), all site message when you log in for things like outage details, sliders, heros, static pages for help, featured course, decent design for login screen etc. etc. etc.
Well done in your theme work!!
-Derek
Derek,
One of the things from the official roadmap [linked at the top] was to add the most common changes so that the most common things that Moodle Themers were adding would be available making a child theme unnecessary.
When you say you can help me put the my courses into Moodle, do you mean a quick easy way to do it from moodle itself, or do you mean going through and editing a theme. Because I already have gone through the process once if you meant the long way. I just think if three of the top plugins installed in Moodle are all themes, and each of them added a my courses dropdown menu, it might be a hint that it should be included in the core.
I know there has already been a discussion of whether Boost should have a child similar to Clean/More so no need to rehash that or have it again.
Font icons etc have been asked for for ages and there were patches - but they were not accessible. It is easy to use font icons in an accessible way someone just needs to come up with the right patch.
We are not going to tackle icons in this new theme for 3.2 - maybe we will for 3.3?
Hi Damyon,
Would it be conceivable to add collapsing support to sections like in archaius theme or topcoll format?
Regards
Jean-Roch
Hey Damyon
How likely for your most recent changes to make the cut for 3.2? Any idea yet??
As mentioned above, I've just created a github repository with all the bootstrap3 bootswatches from https://bootswatch.com/ converted as presets for boost. the original scss files are provided as well, for reference purposes, but its only the preset-xxxxxxxxx.scss file that's needed.
https://github.com/roelmann/moodle-boostswatches
If anyone wants to use them, then just copy the preset-swatchname.scss file into the scss folder of boost, but you will then need to add the preset to the boost/lang/en/theme_boost.php language file, and into the boost/settings.php file.
Damyon - yes I'd love to see a file upload for presets. Not sure about a process for sharing them through the database, as you say that may involve some infrastructure work, creating a new category and adding that as a sub category in the Themes area, just as you see for Quiz perhaps (reports, types, formats, etc) - but I have a feeling it may be worth it
As for the 'few more colour settings', personally for Boost I would limit it to maybe the main @brand ones found in all the bootswatches anyway - @brand-primary, @brand-success, @brand-info, @brand-warning and @brand-danger. Possibly with @gray-base as well. For me that would be plenty for most users of theme_boost, when coupled with the customSCSS setting box and presets (particularly if those could be uploaded too). Other themes will develop that will then add the additional settings that different people want, providing different users with the level of customisability (through 'detailed settings') or simplicity that they want
Boost is looking great and I really appreciate the efforts of everyone working on it! Huge congratulations in order already, but even more so when it goes live with the public release of 3.2 shortly :D
Richard
Thanks everyone for their input on this thread. We are listening!!!
Presets is now an upload setting so you can drop in more presets without access to the server!!!
There is a database on moodle.net where you can upload your presets.
Special thanks to Mary for her morecandy preset - I see it on screens everywhere at HQ!
This is a very cool feature. I really like this as a concept for enhancing the looks of Boost.
A sincere thanks for all the hard work being put into this new theme.
Here is some tinkering I have been doing with a custom scss file. This preset uses a header image and uses a full screen image for the login page.
I am really liking the Boost theme!
At the K-12 level a nice visual presentation is needed. This might be all we need.
It would be nice to be able to include or add-on a file upload into boost and then utilize that in this custom scss file.
Wasn't there talk of being able to do so for color pickers and stuff like that as a plugin?
Hi Chris -would you like to upload your preset file to the new database https://moodle.net/mod/data/view.php?id=28 and I'll approve it later today ?
Many thanks
Also anyone else on here please!
I'll appreciate now being able to try uploading and applying these myself now we have this option.
I uploaded it but I am still making tweaks. It also uses an image that I host on my server. It would be nice to be able to add an image uploader spot into the theme. Was this functionality planned for Boost to use a plugin that might allow for color pickers and file uploads?
Hi Chris,
There is a Logo uploader in Moodle and NOT in any particular theme, although Clean and More still have their own. So you can add an image there which is coded into the page header in Boost.
Hope that helps?
Cheers
Mary
Booster updated on github to reflect the changes in boost upto Moodle 3.2dev (Build: 20161014)
It (Booster) also now includes the full set of theme presets from the bootswatch templates from https://github.com/roelmann/moodle-boostswatches as additions to the default preset settings list.
I've also just reworked the Presets setting, so that rather than having to edit the settings.php and the language file when adding a new preset file, you simply add the preset file to the booster/scss folder. The settings.php then parses through all the files in that folder looking for 'preset-' files (it does require the file to be named 'preset-mypresetname.scss') and then uses the file name without the 'preset-' and '.scss' to add it to the setting.
Might make it easier for non-technical administrators to add preset files simply by ftp-ing the file into the right location, without having to edit other theme files - until I (or someone else) work on a UI file upload option for presets - potentially improves the ability to upgrade as well (still need to read the relevant user preset file, but don't have to maintain code changes)
Damyon - or anyone else - if you are interested in what I changed for this, then its at https://github.com/roelmann/moodle-theme_booster/commit/3d8760c7e3bc14e856d1bd665442ea4ee8ca66d7 and https://github.com/roelmann/moodle-theme_booster/commit/f4a642a39d104ee6effd1a600444020c8961914c
Well we could make the presets a sub-plugin of theme boost. But that adds a lot of complexity and doesn't really achieve what you described. You still couldn't use the presets in any other theme but theme boost.
By the time we release (there is an issue waiting for peer review that affects this atm) - you will be able to achieve the exact same thing as a preset, by using the 2 scss fields on the advanced settings tab. I imagine people could share their presets in the themes forum with the install instructions to be copy/paste these 2 strings into these 2 fields.
The presets we ship with core are just a convenience to give people an option to get some different look and feels without installing a new theme, or dealing with the advanced settings.
Hi Damyon,
I think you're missing the point. You are asking developers to create presets for the theme. Those presets could be shared around. Users want to just install add-ons as easily as possible, with copying files being the worst case scenario. You're asking to edit files. You're missing an opportunity here to create a vibrant new way to engage a community with modern technology.
G
As a non-developer, but also as someone who knows just enough code to be dangerous(!), I have to agree with Gareth. It appears that with boost, theme customization is going to rely on developers to create the presets and that the average user will need, at a minimum to know css to make any customizations..if you look at the two most popular themes at the moment, I believe you will find they are probably Adaptable and Essential. The benefit of both these themes is pages of settings that any user can adjust without knowing css or code. Should this not be a goal from the outset with the built in Moodle theme, something along the lines of More...but "more" so?
The prototype site has been updated again (and will get updates every 2 hours as things land in integration).
Major changes for themers here are that the presets has been converted to a file upload field. We will create a database on moodle.net so they can be shared easily and point to it from the field.
I am sure there is an easier way to do all this...or is it we are mixing ideas and using the same terminology for different elements?
For example
Templates
Bootstrap template, is a simple stylesheet which you can add to your Bootstrap site so that you get a new look.
Moodle template, is a defined element using mustache.
And now to complicate further we have Presets, so is a Moodle Preset a new name for Bootstrap template?
Slightly confused...
Mary
Hi Damyon,
just checking if there are plans to do any user testing of the new navigation with students or tutors?
Cheers
Stuart
I was interested in this question as well. Any user testing?
I hope I have no missed the point. Looking at prototype today, here are some comments and questions.
I am only looking at course admin navigation, site admin navigation and navigation inside a course (ie section to section)
The thing on the left
Obviously there is a new look fold out at the left. What is this called? Is it customisable? It seems to me the key items (section to section navigation) are buried a little. This cog seems to be new. In Participants it is labelled "edit" in the tips.
Course admin on the right
This is great. One click and you are in.
The administration menu.
So the course admin is nice and there in one click. Is the Site admin treated like this? I could only see another scroll>click>scroll>click way to get there.
I'd like to see the admin menu more easily accessed.
- The carousel in course X does not work for me
- I'd like the user menu drop down at the top right to be customizable.
- Love the tabs in the theme settings.
- The new link in the left hand thingy to the site admin opens up to 341 items. At least when I cut and pasted it into a spreadsheet that was the row count. Is this a design inention? I know it may be good wne you are 'learning' Moodle admin, but I suspect it is a backwards step. My scrolling snagit could not cope with this lengths of page.
- Learning Plan templates Link needs tome layout TLC. http://prototype.moodle.net/theme/admin/tool/lp/templatecompetencies.php?templateid=1&pagecontextid=3
I know this is the basic theme going ahead.
-Derek
On qa.moodle.net if the left sidebar has too many options and you login as manager the "site Admin" button at the bottom is not fully seen when scrolling to the bottom of the page. It is hard to get a screenshot.
Here is what I changed and it fixed the issue. I used padding-top instead of position:50px; to correct the issue. I made top:0; and now when scrolling there is a proper amount of padding below the site admin button and it is fully visible.
Add this into the code and it should fix the issue:
[data-region="drawer"] {
padding-top: 65px;
top: 0;
}
To see the issue login as manager and on a page with the left panel open scroll down. If the list is longer than the browser window it will not show the site admin button/link.
Thanks.
I posted it: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-56685
Is it a deliberate decision for the side-pre region (and region-main) not to use bootstrap grid for layout (the region-main-box does, but not the section holding the block-region-side-pre aside, or the region-main section) and - presumably because of this - to entirely hide the side-pre on smaller screens so that any blocks that may be there cannot be accessed at all when the screen is shrunk, rather than them slipping below the main content as previously? Is there any way to access that block content on smaller screens at all?
The blocks are on the right, aren't they? Whereas the breadcrumb is the menu in the sliding drawer, on the left isn't it? At least that is what I am seeing in the latest updates.
I've been fixing the layout recently and I did suggest removing region-main-box in some layouts, and moving the grid into region-main, but recent changes seemed to require region-main-box back again leaving region-main as just the outer shell for the main content.
I did not think of the sliding drawer as a block region, but more as a navigational tool set.
Anyway I thought blocks were being depreciated or at least converted into cards that can be placed in the page and not blocks as such; at least not as we know them?
Yes, they are on the right Mary - but in the code they are 'side-pre', so its that area I was thinking of rather than the sliding drawer
It was just that I spent some time looking at the layouts last night trying to get my head around the new templating and realised that bootstrap grid wasn't being used for the region-main or for the block region and it was 'back' to specific pixel widths like we used to use - albeit with the added power of SASS for calculations. And only then did I realise that the side-pre block content region (on the right) was being hidden completely on smaller screens, rather than shuffled down below the main content.
I do realise that blocks can be added to the main content area on the dashboard page - but not on course pages, and that setting the weight can allow them to be positioned above or below the main content, which is great, and would be wonderful to see on course pages too! But I was trying to sort out in my own head how things were working, and how they were intended to work, before trying to move forward with my own theme from it and this seemed to be an responsive/accessibility issue for small device users
I'm not sure that is an issue of whether the concept of blocks is to be deprecated in the future as much as a possible usability issue for now - some users will not be able to access that content because of their device size. I would have thought that even if it is being hidden, there should be a way to access it - a button for a pop-up or a left hand sliding drawer, not really sure what - haven't thought that through yet, I just don't think content like the blocks should disappear entirely and be inaccessible simply due to screen size.
Deprecating them - or as you say, converting them to cards to add to the page - I think is a separate point to hiding them completely on some screen sizes?
Richard
Boost theme is a 'work in progress', and as such I doubt very much you can make a theme of your own based on Boost, other than submit a 'Preset' which you have already done. At the end of the day, BOOST is a standalone theme.
Make a new theme by all means, but make it the way you want it to work. If you do not think Boost is working right then make a theme that does.
"I doubt very much you can make a theme of your own based on Boost" - I already have a child theme based on Boost. It (obviously) needs attention as Boost is changing so rapidly as we approach final release, but I'm happy with that as the changes help me learn more about the way its working.
"Make a new theme by all means, but make it the way you want it to work." - And more importantly the way my users want it to work, which is't necessarily the same thing and isn't necessarily the way another group of users may want it to work, which is the key reason we have so many themes within Moodle with different functionalities. It isn't just about colours and logos (even if it possibly should be, with the functionality completely separated from the theming)
I've just updated my test server and find that there are more issues with the side panels, so perhaps opening a Moodle Tracker issue might be a better tactic, but then again I think they are well aware of the problems.
Found several inconsistencies in the buttons styles.
Just open https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-56704
In reply to Damyon Wiese
Re: Theme Project for Moodle 3.2 [BOOST] Site Administration Menu
by Fernando Acedo -
While testing moodle 3.2 I need to use the Site Administration menu often and when I open the left menu item, I got a very long list of all the moodle administration settings.
Would be better to show the list collapsed instead of expanded. The scroll is worst than the famous scroll of death. And this is a serious usability issue that could be fixed easily with an accordion.
Will this "issue" solved in other way before publish the new version?
Or will need to deal with all the admins with CTS complaining with the scroll? 
In reply to Fernando Acedo
Re: Theme Project for Moodle 3.2 [BOOST] Site Administration Menu
by Mary Evans -
MDL-56691 has been fixed, Peer Reviewed and is currently in Integration Review.
In reply to Fernando Acedo
Re: Theme Project for Moodle 3.2 [BOOST] Site Administration Menu
by Damyon Wiese -
Site admin is updated in
MDL-56561
In reply to Damyon Wiese
Re: Theme Project for Moodle 3.2 [BOOST] Site Administration Menu
by Fernando Acedo -
Damyon, is it possible to download only the Boost theme updates?
I'm facing serious problems while testing moodle 3.2 due a wrong versions of Boost (the version provided in the dev file was outdated) and now I found several issues, some already reported in the tracker, but it is not possible to know if you are working on it or if they are already fixed.
In reply to Fernando Acedo
EDITED| Re: Theme Project for Moodle 3.2 [BOOST] Site Administration Menu
by Mary Evans -
Use FETCH_HEAD for example:
git fetch git://github.com/alice/moodle.git wip-feature
git checkout -b alice-wip-feature FETCH_HEAD
Should work...
If you get ERRORS then get back to your master branch and then rebase this new branch based on it.
For example:
git rebase master alice-wip-feature
Should fix it providing that your master branch is uptodate with Moodle master?
In reply to Mary Evans
Re: EDITED| Re: Theme Project for Moodle 3.2 [BOOST] Site Administration Menu
by Fernando Acedo -
Mary, another new repo is not a solution. I already have access to 3 repositories with different Boost versions and ALL are outdated.
I spent 2 days, together Rajesh, trying to understand a bug. And the conclusion was that the version used in the downloads section is/was outdated. I use this version to test installations and was 1 month outdated while it says 1 day or even hours.
Now, I have a list of Boost bugs, some already reported. Some are serious, other are very simple to fix but are pending to verify if they are solved or not.
So now, Damyon says the Site Administration is using accordion? Where? What repo? Because all the repos are OUTDATED.
It is really difficult to manage the long list of settings in one page. This is not moodle 1.4 with a few options. IMHO this is a serious issue that should blocked to publish the theme before fix it.
So for the moment I will not report any Boost issue. for the moment I found all these issues:
MDL-56729 Boost Theme: Remove mandatory asterisk underline
MDL-56708 Boost Theme: Inconsistency in dropdowns
MDL-56707 Boost Theme: Default avatar not displayed in Firefox
MDL-56704 Boost Theme: Inconsistency in the buttons styles
So if somebody has the link to the real and original repo where the Boost changes are made then I will try to test it.
In reply to Fernando Acedo
Re: EDITED| Re: Theme Project for Moodle 3.2 [BOOST] Site Administration Menu
by Mary Evans -
Well that depends on how you set up your test server. My test server uses the master branch https://github.com/lazydaisy/moodle.git which is a forked branch of https://github.com/moodle/moodle.git,
which I update regularly.
Boost theme was ingegrated into Master branch and is NOW the DEFAULT theme in Moodle.
I have just Peer Reviewed the changes in MDL-56561-master and found that it is working OK although the branch itself did need rebasing to bring it inline with the current master branch.
By the way this Site Administration page is NOT an Accordian as such its a set of tabs. An Accordian is like the Collapsed Topic format that Gareth built.
Also I am puzzled why you think that you do not need to have a new repo to TEST changes, then why do we create branches to fix things in Moodle?
In reply to Mary Evans
Re: EDITED| Re: Theme Project for Moodle 3.2 [BOOST] Site Administration Menu
by Fernando Acedo -
Mary, I know very well which is the default moodle repo and I know also that Boost is the new default theme.
And I know that there are more than one dev repo. That's confusing and the reason the dev version was outdated 3 days ago.
But looks like nobody is working on it and fixing issues in Boost. Even more, there are many issues that NEVER should be there after publish it. Why a theme with serious issues like the accordion for the Site Administration is published against all the usability rules???
And yes, I know also very well what is an accordion and also tabs. But nothing changed in latest version. It is exactly the same that the version published one month ago. I see that the version number is not updated which is also a problem to know what is the latest.
So my question is still the same. Where are the latest Boost updates added? Does somebody working on it? Are you sure the theme will be ready for production? Because I don't think so.
So I will not spend time testing Boost and open issues that will be lost in the deep moodle tracker (as usual) while I need to test other moodle features and also Adaptable to get it ready for version 3.2.
In reply to Fernando Acedo
Re: EDITED| Re: Theme Project for Moodle 3.2 [BOOST] Site Administration Menu
by Mary Evans -
Where are all these different versions that you are talking about?
Or are you meaning the Weekly ones that are only updated each weekend?
In reply to Fernando Acedo
Re: EDITED| Re: Theme Project for Moodle 3.2 [BOOST] Site Administration Menu
by Mary Evans -
Fernando,
The tracker issues I have been fixing lately are added in this branch and also the issues I have fixed this week are being added to Boost theme in the next update, which I think will be today, in the master branch HERE
I hope that answers your question?
Cheers
Mary
In reply to Fernando Acedo
Re: EDITED| Re: Theme Project for Moodle 3.2 [BOOST] Site Administration Menu
by Damyon Wiese -
There is no one branch with all the fixes that have been worked on. Boost has been "integrated" so any fixes follow the same process as any other change in moodle - that single change gets its own dev branch which is merged to integration after the integration review. There are many many boost issues going through the peer review / integration review process right now so you will see fixes landing on integration every day. Also the theme prototype site is now tracking integration - so when fixes land in integration the theme prototype site will get them within 2 hours.
In reply to Damyon Wiese
Re: Theme Project for Moodle 3.2 [BOOST] Site Administration Menu
by Mary Evans -
Tons better...thanks Damyon!
I noticed on the prototype that the gradebook doesn't keep student names visible when scrolling left and right. The table heading sticks but the names do not when going sideways.
http://prototype.moodle.net/theme/grade/report/grader/index.php?id=7
HI Chris. I wonder if that's the same as this bug? MDL-56742 I do see a horizontal bar but as you say the column with the students' names is not static.
I put in a ticket too. Didn't see that one. Mine has a sscreenshot.
Much nicer Site Admin area! Great work. Love the tabs.
I love the tabs too Chris
I really like the idea of the Boost theme with being able to quickly change up colors using the SCSS file uploader.
However, one of the most basic necessities is a background image. It would be nice if Boost shipped with a background image uploader with the image settings such as the More theme.
This is such a big change in theming that people wanting to "round the edges" so to speak and continue to develop with Moodle need some examples of how the theme and new templating works and how we can replicate basic functions to enhance themes moving forward.
Not everyone operates on the same plane as Gareth and Mary but we still make valuable contributions to the community.
Having practical examples built-in or how-to's with copy and paste code if needed would be most beneficial.
At the K-12 level we need a more colorful and inviting look and feel. Images help our younger learners and having a dashboard that spells out where and what they are to do on the site is very helpful. These are some of the reasons we've built two themes starting when Moodle 2.7 came out.
Hi there,
Where is the "switch role" functionality in boost theme?
Regards
Jean-Roch
In your Course page Administration block:
Administration > Course Administration > Switch role to...
Hi Mary, thanks for your answer,
Since the intention is not to use administration block anymore (if I understood correctly...) this should be placed somewhere else, no?
Hello Jean- Roch. If you are looking at the latest version of Moodle 3.2 and boost in the QA site then you will find 'Switch roles to' by clcking the Gear icon at the top right of the page and then clicking the bottom, More, link. You'll see a tab ' Switch role to'.
Something to note - once you have finished in that role, you can switch back from your user menu:
That makes for a lot of mouse clicking...
I was very hopeful for this theme.
- It seems that we are encouraging much more mouse clicking, where things have made things unnecessarily complicated, like the case above.
- One of the goals at the beginning was to include features that are available in all of most popular themes. The top 4 themes all have a My Courses dropdown menu to so you can navigate from course to course.
- One of the goals was to create uniformity around where settings were found around moodle, but if you end up in that more course settings area, and the same settings menu acts differently, doesn't show the basic features.
It also bothers me that we are weeks away from release and the amount of issues that are still there, and that it will be shipped as the default. I think someone at HQ needs to pull it from core, make it available as a plugin and consider their original plan for Moodle 3.3
> I think someone at HQ needs to pull it from core, make it available as a plugin and consider their original plan for Moodle 3.3
Even if it didn't meet the standards we'd all like, it would be overkill to extract it to a plugin - and would make it more difficult for people to try it and give feedback/bugreports/fixes.
If it were deemed worse than the old default (which seems unlikely), it would be kept in core, but not made default.
It is true that Boost had and have many issues and IMHO is not ready to replace Clean in version 3.2.
The idea and concept is really good but still needs to fix some minor issues (I know many are ongoing) and probably discuss some usability details that are not resolved in the best way.
But I will not move it out the core. The moodle community should test it and give their opinion, the pros and cons, and try to get a better theme (it will be the default so it should be really good)
And theme developers could start to develop themes based on it and then have several themes ready for v3.3.
+1 for keeping Clean as the default for 3.2, but definitely also +1 for keeping Boost in core with the aim of making it the default as soon as it is genuinely ready.
Found today another bug in Boost and open issue MDL-57048
Some issues are already fixed but still open some more so definitely not ready for MTP. Still need testing and fix the existing bugs.
I just tried on the QA site and the resize corner is where I would expect it to be - have you tried on the QA site? Moodle 3.2rc1 (Build: 20161118)
"One of the goals at the beginning was to include features that are available in all of most popular themes."
Not really no. Those exist and will continue to work.
The goals here were to implement bootstrap 4 and JS frameworks, implement some the popular conventions out beyond Moodle as it's been for 14 years, and start the convergence with the mobile interface.
This one is not a simple theme though. It's a new direction for themes.
Martin,
While not nearly as convoluted as switch roles issue, my point is if there is no longer a navigation block, then how do you switch from course to course in Moodle.
Go to the user menu, select your dashboard, scroll down to the course and go.
I know I sound like a one issue voter, but the two issues we are talking about are related to me. We are adding clicks and more important for more casual users, it requires the knowledge of "where do I go to even find the menu I need."
Just a little background on me. I'm the educational technology coordinator at a small liberal arts college. We started using Moodle a year and a half ago and it's been my job to teach Moodle to a group of faculty who had gone their careers having never used another LMS. So when I stress about clarity, directness, less clicks it's because I'm a first responder for issues like that.
I totally agree. I reported this issue too just a day before.
It's a little involved to get right without affecting other themes etc
We were trying to decide today whether it should hold up the 3.2 release or not and the consensus was probably not, but it should be in 3.2.1 at latest.
What do you think? Is this feature useful a lot by teachers?
Martin,
Yes I believe it's a tool teachers often use. I would like long term to go a step farther. The activity module that does what teachers actually want best is the quiz module, where when after they have created something they can preview it exactly as their students do, including working their way through the quiz.
I constantly am helping faculty by going to their computers, logging in as an admin and showing them what Moodle looks like for their students. Even though they can switch roles, they can't see what it looks like when they assign feedback, or what happens when there is feedback from multiple attempts of an assignment, or realize the "user report" in the gradebook is exactly what a student sees.
I think it's useful, but currently a bit fragmented. all screens don't always show up as a real student would see it.
It is a very useful feature but needs to be improved. It needs to give a true view of what the student views and does not currently.
I would recommend moving forward with 3.2 but maybe leaving Clean as the default theme until it is resolved.
Yes. Our teachers use it quite a bit. This is used a lot for people who do custom roles and permissions too. If not for 3.2 it should be in 3.2.x right away.
It's one of the first things our teachers notice or ask about when I show them the new Boost theme and menu system.
We have been carrying out some usability testing with the Boost theme. One thing that academics find particularly problematic in Moodle is editing/adding and moving sections. A common theme from the testing was a suggestion that sections could be move/reordered within the navigation drawer. It was felt that the short list of titles was much easier to visualise in a new order.
I agree moving sections is unwieldy when you have a lot of them, although it is easier to click on the crosshairs icon and then choose where you want to move the section to, rather than dragging and dropping.
Hi,
Talking about sections, it would be great to have collapsible sections in core course formats (topics, weeks) in order to have a better overview of the course as a whole. IMO, collapsible sections shouldn't be a course format by itself but a feature to add to existing course formats. Topcol format by Gareth is great but would be even better if integrated into core formats.
Regards
Jean-Roch