Moodle in English: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

This question had it's beginnings in the BETT Awards thread....

Just wondering if K-12 is an appropriate abbreviation to have in the title of this forum considering that various countries abbreviate differently?

I can speak for the state of New South Wales in Australia.... where we call our primary & secondary education levels Kindergarten to Year 12 (K-12).... meaning 5 year olds to 18 year olds.

This includes non-compulsory (K, year 11, year 12) and compulsory (year 1-10) schooling.

Also, I'm only just learning now that in other states different terms are used for kindergarten:

Reception - South Australia
Transition - Northern Territory
Preparatory - Tasmania, Victoria
Pre-primary - Western Australia
Preschool - Queensland
Kindergarten - Australian Capital Territory & New South Wales

If our country is anything to go by confusion is sure to abound thoughtful

What do you call K-12 education?

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Darren Smith - ULwesine, 4 Agasti 2005, 9:38 PM

In the UK kids start compulsory education at at year 1 (obviously!) and finish in year 11. At the end of year 11 they will be 16 years old. A lot of students stay on in schools which have a sixth form (year 12 and a year 13( so they will be 18 when they leave.

We call:

years 1-6 primary schools
years 7-11 secondary schools
and schools with sixth forms (12 - 13) are called ... ummm ... schools with sixth forms!

Just to confuse things more we have some (not many at all) middle schools which are years 7 - 9. They drift in and out of fashion. Also Primary schools can be divided to infant and junior sections.

As for pre-compulsory education, prior to year 1 we have a reception year. Prior to the reception year we call such buildings nurseries.

So I guess our equivalent (although it is never written) would be nursery to sixth form.

I can't see kids in nurseries making use of moodle as they tend not to be able to read.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Martin Dougiamas - ULwesine, 4 Agasti 2005, 9:46 PM

As you know I was cautious about starting this forum because 90% of how Moodle is or can be used in younger-age schools is covered by other forums on this site.

I guess we need to define exactly why this forum is really required (ie what that other 10% is) and the name should come from that.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Miles Berry - ULwesihlanu, 5 Agasti 2005, 4:47 PM

Well said, Martin approve

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by N Hansen - ULwesihlanu, 5 Agasti 2005, 7:02 PM

I agree with Martin. I was a bit disappointed to see this forum actually. I am going to be teaching adult education, but I think a lot of the techniques used in K-12 would be useful in teaching adults. However, by defining a forum in this way it makes me feel that to participate in a discussion here would be seen as off-topic or irrelevant or the very worst, treating adults like children. I can see there being certain issues particular to K-12 only, such as state or national learning standards, but it seems to me better if that was discussed in a forum for that particular topic rather than this arbitrary age division (and the current standards forum seems to be for technical standards, not curricular ones).

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Darren Smith - ULwesihlanu, 5 Agasti 2005, 10:12 PM

Just some quick thoughts in no particular order:

Discussion how moodle can support children with SEN
Discussion how moodle can address (lack of) motivation with under achieving students in subjects they don't like!
Discussion on how the change in teacher working practice can be addressed by establishments
Discussion on how moodle can be used to address up and coming requirements for statuary education
Discussion how moodle can address exam board requirements (such as DiDA and e-portfolios in the UK)
Discussion upon how schools can be made aware of the advantages of using moodle relative to their subjects.
Sharing moodle resources with schools running the same exams
Sharing moodle resources which cover statutory requirements with schools
Working with other schools to produce resources
Making links with schools in different nations to allow students to various collaboration educational projects
Discussion on how staff took/will take to a moodle install over traditional methods
Making links with schools who may want to sponsor moodle modules / blocks to address statutory / exam board / good practice requirements.
Sharing good and bad practice

There is obviously overlap with other forums but having all of this in one place would be a great knowledge base and an excellent opportunity for K12 teachers to fly with moodle.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Drew Buddie - ULwesihlanu, 5 Agasti 2005, 11:13 PM

Very comprehensive list there Darren. big grin

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Jason Hando - UMgqibelo, 6 Agasti 2005, 6:29 AM

I would like to add to Darren's List:

- parent login future feature: suitability, control, teacher fears, teacher desires, child privacy issues, interface, daily management issues

- integrating Moodle with current school systems: admin databases, report writing, dynamic reporting, Oasis, Edumate & Denbigh (Australia), student intranets eg. EduWeb (Australia), staff intranets, school public marketing sites

- school specific pastoral care issues: bullying, leadership, character development, sharing resources, using & modifiying modules etc to suit, case studies, success stories, integrating with current programmes (eg. Adolescent Mental Health initiatives in various communities)

- Moodle use in school distance ed: for example, School of the Air in Australia, issues with social interactions, sharing distance ed projects, resources, pedagogy

- Moodle use in junior years of schooling: issues with younger children, spicing up interface to attract attention & maintain interest, adding more graphical appeal, different evaluation/reporting of student outcomes, assessing benefit to younger children when compared to other solutions, integrating/blending with existing software such as edutainment software (eg. Where in World in Carmen San Diego), multimedia (eg. KidPix)

- Links to threads in larger forums & documentation helpful to teachers: a teacher hotlist of hyperlinks that benefit from knowledge and ideas shared in wider Moodle community but present it in a more concise, refined manner to help teachers who feel overwhelmed

My two bobs worth tongueout

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by minh mcCloy - UMgqibelo, 6 Agasti 2005, 7:04 AM

Excellent list Darren.

SEN will need considerable attention - lots of sound & images.

K-6 is quite different to 6-12; K-2 has it's own particular requirements.

There may need to be further propagation of forums as more teachers discover Moodle.

Gifted & Talented, K-6 is where I'm focusing at the moment. Not that I can yet moodle with any fluency or coherency.

minh

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Darren Smith - UMgqibelo, 6 Agasti 2005, 8:02 AM

Thanks for the support.

Not that I can yet moodle with any fluency or coherency

You assume the rest of us can

Use Marin as your role model and you wont go far wrong

I'd be interested in hearing about your G&T projects as this is an area at 11 - 16 yo which i will be exploring in more depth. I am even trying to work out how I can get kids 'out of lessons' so they can manage / teach their own extra-curricula courses about either a topic they have an interest in or one where I ask them to research the content.

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case studies, exemplars and successful lessons

by Michael Henderson - ULwesine, 27 Okthoba 2005, 5:55 PM

Hi Darren, I know this discussion appears to have lapsed but I would like to add to your comment about sharing good practice. I agree that a very valuable function of this forum could be in sharing case studies, exemplars and successful lessons. My own field of work is in professional development of teachers in using ICT and online technologies. One of the key elements in technology diffusion is being able to get the technological laggards to get past the rhetoric and understand the vision.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Miles Berry - ULwesihlanu, 5 Agasti 2005, 4:48 PM

Moodle 3-18 seems the obvious solution.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by mandy honeyman - ULwesihlanu, 19 Agasti 2005, 10:41 PM

I've been waiting so long for this forum to be set up that I can't quite believe I missed it inaugeration....

How about Schools?

cheers
Mandy

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Drew Buddie - UMgqibelo, 20 Agasti 2005, 12:11 AM

I suggested that, but it was emntioned earlier that you can have schools in Universities (like School of Engineering' ie. faculties. So it is not as starightforward as you or I might think.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by mandy honeyman - UMgqibelo, 20 Agasti 2005, 11:03 PM

Heya Drew,
I thought of/ wrote about that, but then my post got a bit long so I cut it. I believe that people who teach or learn at further and higher education institutions with "School (of)" in the name do know that they are not at school black eye

(oops expecting a virtual knockabout big grin

).

K12 seems just a wee bit US centric (or is it K12 in Australia as well?) And this excludes our primary school colleagues which seems a little mean (to me) seeing as many of their issues are/will be similar to ours (in terms of time/users/structure/organisation etc).

xx
Mandy

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Drew Buddie - UMgqibelo, 20 Agasti 2005, 11:47 PM

Mandy,

It is Australian too.

The K-12 terminology isn't used here in Blighty. And 12 is wrong as far as we are concerned 'cos we have a Year 13. But I guess we'd never find any name that was perfect for all.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Miles Berry - ISonto, 21 Agasti 2005, 12:01 AM

K12 seems just a wee bit US centric (or is it K12 in Australia as well?) And this excludes our primary school colleagues which seems a little mean (to me) seeing as many of their issues are/will be similar to ours (in terms of time/users/structure/organisation etc).

K stands for kindergarten, so does not, in itself, exclude those in primary schools. My understanding is that this is the 'grade' in which they reach their 6th birthday, and 12th grade is that in which they reach their 18th, which corresponds to our Year 13.
In other words, I think we're referring to the same thing, but I'll agree that the terminology is confusing.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Don Simmons - ISonto, 21 Agasti 2005, 3:48 AM

Why not something such as Preparatory Schools or Pre-University Schools? All that is really necessary to get across is that we are talking about schools for children and young adults that are pre-college level.

Typically we have the same interests -- working with adolescents (and pre-adolescents) who we also see daily in the traditional classroom.

Don Simmons
Missouri City, Texas

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Drew Buddie - ISonto, 21 Agasti 2005, 6:21 AM

It's all semantics Don big grin You're going to love me repsonse. In the UK PREPARATORY schools are SPECIFICALLY those for pupils under the age of 11 - in the PRIVATE SECTOR. A 'Prep' school teaches up to age 11.

Two nations (or more) separted by one langauge - that's us. big grin

You're quite right of course that our aims are the same. But nomenclature is important to know what we're talking about.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Don Simmons - ISonto, 21 Agasti 2005, 7:37 AM

One language? Well... maybe.

I did know that our private schools are your public schools (it's still that way, isn't it?). Preparatory or prep school is typically what the private sector likes to call a high school -- to differentiate from the hoi polloi (me and my ilk).

Maybe we just have to create a name that has no previous meaning to any of us.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Drew Buddie - ISonto, 21 Agasti 2005, 5:50 PM

Don - I was quoting George Bernard Shaw big grin

Have you read Bill Bryson's "Mother Tongue"? It's a fascinating insight into the differences between UK English and American English.

"Preparatory or prep school is typically what the private sector likes to call a high school -- to differentiate from the hoi polloi (me and my ilk)." a) don't put yourself down like that and b) just goes to show the differnece between prep in the USA and prep in the UK - TOTALLY different age groups never mind the clientelle!

Re point a) above - I've just looked at your profile, thence to your Moodle - it is FANTASTIC. Your kids are REALLY lucky to have you teach them maths. What a GREAT resource you have created. REALLY.

Can I ask, what is 'contest math'? (of course what you call 'math' we in the UK call 'maths'!).

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Ulrike Montgomery - ISonto, 21 Agasti 2005, 11:44 PM

Very interesting discussion points regarding the two versions of English. I agree, 'K-12 schools' is probably not too well understood - I'm thinking about all the non-native speakers participating in the forum (I only know the term because I happen to know a lot of American teachers). What about 'School Teachers' Corner'? Would that make sense?

Don, I agree with Drew - you site is great. I'm not a math/maths teacher but I'll passs it on to my colleagues.

Ulrike

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Don Simmons - UMsombuluko, 22 Agasti 2005, 5:24 AM

Ulrike -- I really like "School Teachers' Corner". I think it gets across the focus of forum without confusing things too much.

Yes, English is an interesting language. It has evolved from so many sources that perhaps the only thing consistent about it is that it is not consistent. I don't envy anyone having to learn it for a second language with all the exceptions to rules, strange spellings, and multiple pronunciations and meanings.

Don Simmons

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by mandy honeyman - UMsombuluko, 22 Agasti 2005, 9:21 PM

I too like School ...... Corner - the only problem I have is that not all of us who are concerned with pre-further education are teachers shy . Thinking caps back on please mixed

cheers
Mandy

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Ulrike Montgomery - UMsombuluko, 22 Agasti 2005, 10:24 PM

Sorry sad , I didn't realize this. The only people running around in our schools are teachers - we don't have ICT specialists like you nor librarians or guidance counselors (maybe that's why our schools are in trouble). My thinking caps are back on. Let's find a term which includes all these people.

Ulrike

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Darren Smith - UMsombuluko, 22 Agasti 2005, 11:33 PM

Perhaps we are trying to please all of the people all of the time too much?

Personally I don't think anyone at university level will get the shakes if they see a forum named schools. I am sure when they drive to work they don't get offended by all of the schools they pass on the way!

How about:

Moodle in schools and colleges
Moodle practice in in compulsory education
Moodle in compulsory education and colleges

Or any other variation mixed

I like moodle in schools and colleges. Does that translate into the other Englishes?

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Miles Berry - ULwesibili, 23 Agasti 2005, 1:52 AM

<pedantic>
So by colleges you don't mean the last few Colleges of Higher Education, nor Oxbridge Colleges, nor bodies like the RCN and the RCVS.
</pedantic>
wink

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Helen Foster - ULwesibili, 23 Agasti 2005, 3:14 AM

Whilst it's interesting to note the different meanings of words, I still don't understand why this forum is necessary. mixed

Surely we should be focussing on what we can learn from and share with all Moodle users, rather than highlighting our differences in a new forum?

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Darren Smith - ULwesibili, 23 Agasti 2005, 3:56 AM

In terms of why we believe this is necessary then see the posts on around the 5th and 6th in this thread.

As for sharing then anyone can come in here. I don't really understand this. We are not highlighting differences - merely plugging a significant gap. This forum is very techy based and big! People (teachers) in schools need a place to live where they can discuss using moodle in direct relation to their job without getting the posts mixed up with MySQL discussions and the like. I do see this forum becoming redundant when the community aspects of moodle which martin referred to at the UK moot are released as they both do pretty much exactly the same thing but IIRC that is not until moodle 2.0

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Miles Berry - ULwesibili, 23 Agasti 2005, 4:18 AM

I do (still) agree Helen, but I'd rather that if we have to have K-12 'specific' disucssions, and there seems a body of opinion in the UK at least that we do (take a glance at some of the post UK Moot conversations if you haven't already), then surely it's better on Moodle.org than tucked away on some small, school teachers' corner of the net somewhere where the rest of the world-wide, pan-phase moodle community won't be able to contribute to, or hear, what is discussed.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by minh mcCloy - ULwesibili, 23 Agasti 2005, 7:53 AM

If the discussions were only k-6 focused, Primary Pedagogy would be nicely alliterative & apt.

Despite its origin in slavery I rather like the word pedagogy.

Pedagogy 6-18 ?? Pertinent Pedagogy -ooops no, sorry thatz going too far,

What's in a name?

Give a dog a name.

A rose by any other name........

Naming rights.

Call me -

minh

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Darren Smith - ULwesibili, 23 Agasti 2005, 9:00 AM

Oooo I like that idea approve

.

I think it would have to be pedegogy 5-18 to cover our (uk) school system (?)

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Helen Foster - ULwesithathu, 24 Agasti 2005, 5:05 PM

Thanks for your explanations Darren and Miles. As a moodle.org regular tongueout

(or perhaps moodle.org addict dead

) I mostly browse recent activity, rather than particular forums, and so hadn't really appreciated the need. Thanks for helping me to understand things better.

PS Miles, please could you explain the meaning of "pan-phase moodle community"?

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Miles Berry - ULwesithathu, 24 Agasti 2005, 6:08 PM

"pan-phase moodle community"
Merely that we have people here from almost all phases of education - primary, secondary, FE, HE, academic research, corporate training, life-long learning etc.
(Any pre-primary people here?)
This is one of the things which, for me at least, makes moodle.org so special, and I think has helped make Moodle itself what it is today.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Drew Buddie - ULwesithathu, 24 Agasti 2005, 7:05 PM

Miles said: "This is one of the things which, for me at least, makes moodle.org so special, and I think has helped make Moodle itself what it is today."

Absolutely spot on Miles. No doubt for me that Moodle.org is one of THE strongest forums I have ever seen or been a member of.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Don Simmons - ULwesibili, 23 Agasti 2005, 12:04 AM

Well, it is going to be extremely difficult to find a name that will be compatible with, inclusive of, and non-offensive to everyone in all 193 countries of the world with who knows how many different ways to label their education systems.

It seems to me, the concern should be whether or not the name is descriptive of the thrust of the forum. I think that "School Teachers' Corner" accomplishes that.

I think that we are all teachers and the term is inclusive. Librarians, IT's, administrators, etc. are really sub-sets of teachers. I know that my wife, an elementary school (that's kindergarten through 5th grade or ages 5 through 11 in the U.S.), definitely considers herself a teacher first and foremost. I don't think her sensibilities would be offended, nor do I think she would feel the forum wasn't a place for her.

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Don Simmons - UMsombuluko, 22 Agasti 2005, 5:09 AM

Drew -- I actually recognized the Shaw quote, although I could not have attributed it to him without some (considerable) thought.

Thanks for the nice words about the site. It is very embryonic right now. My previous site was not interactive except for quizzes. We'll see how this grows over the year.

Contest Math is really a misnomer for my class, but that is the official school disrict title. I would rather the term Math Explorations, because that is what we do. It is an elective, and I try to expose them to all the neat things about math beyond the fundamentals covered in the state-mandated curriculum. We look at such things as problem-solving techniques, golden ratios, Fibonacci sequences, tessellations, and magic tricks. We even mess around with Turtle Logo, a computer language that is much out of vogue these days. All in all, it is math as fun.

Don Simmons

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Ger Tielemans - ULwesibili, 23 Agasti 2005, 3:30 AM

try StarLogo or Netlogo for your projects? (or Squeak?)

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Re: Is K-12 Schools an appropriate title for this forum?

by Don Simmons - UMsombuluko, 22 Agasti 2005, 6:23 AM

I located Bryson's Mother Tongue at my local library. I'll pick it up one day this week. Thanks for the recommendation.

Don Simmons

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