BETT Awards

BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -
Number of replies: 133

I have taken the distinct liberty in nominating MOODLE for the prestigious BETT Awards 2006. But I think I have bitten off more than I can chew in terms of complexity of the process.  It appears that companies need to nominate their OWN product (ie. USERS don't nominate) and as a result I feel ill-placed to follow this through.  The application process is quite heavy, but the prestige is well worth it.  I can think of no better product than Moodle to win the Secondary Software award (it's so much more than that title though!).  It'd get very high profile and well-deserved recognition for Moodle.  I think I may have booboo-ed and placed it in the e-assessment section when I started the application (it's valid for that award too though!).

Anyway:

a) have I done wrong in nominating Moodle?

b) is anyone offended that I did so?(perhaps you feel it's not my place to do so) 

and c) would someone else, better placed than I, say Martin, like to follow through the application procedure that I have started?

Here's more details and I have the usernamer and password for accessing the online application that I can supply to someone if they want.  The UIN referred to is the unique number for the application that I have started. Note that the application deadline is Wed 3rd August!

"1) Complete your product despatch form by logging into the Online Product Portfolio at: http://www.becta.org.uk/bettportfolio/.
Please include details of all items that will be included in your package. For example, list any hardware, software, peripherals, accessories and documentation.

2) Send two copies of each product per category entered to the technical testing team at Becta. Clearly mark your entry with the UIN stated above. If your entry is an update and relies on a previous version to operate, you must supply two copies of each version. All products must be delivered to Becta's technical team by 5.00pm on 3 August 2005:

UIN: etMooRoy92
Harpinder Johal
Becta
Technical Testing - Bett Awards 2006
Science Park
Millburn Hill Road
Coventry
CV4 7JJ

3) You can now complete your Online Product Portfolio also at: http://www.becta.org.uk/bettportfolio/
One OPP per category entered must be submitted by midnight on Wednesday, 14 September 2005. Until 14 September you can come back to your OPP as many times as you need to but it should only take approximately one hour to complete. Make sure you include information about three users of your product or service who can be contacted by the judges."

Drew

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards

by Miles Berry -
I think this is a great idea, and it would be splendid to have some Open Source software recognised at the BETT show.

I'd like to propose that Drew spearhead the application, as I fear Martin may have other things on his plate, but that those of us using Moodle in UK schools get together on a wiki to help Drew with the paper work. If Martin, or the community, would rather we didn't go for this please say!

Pressing and immediate issues for the 3/8/05 deadline are

1) Which category should we enter?
There's likely to be less competition in the e-assessment category, but secondary software is  more likely to encompass the whole Moodle experience. It can be in both categories, but that nearly doubles the paperwork. Have a glance at the criteria at
http://www.becta.org.uk/corporate/display.cfm?section=21&id=4689 and
http://www.becta.org.uk/corporate/display.cfm?section=21&id=4695
I'm inclined towards Secondary Software, myself.

2) We need to supply them with two copies of the 'product'.
Can one of the UK hosting partners set up a demo Moodle perhaps, which they can have a play-around in? Alternatively / additionally how about a live CD version? Anyone know what the possibilities are here?

We have a little longer to put together the rest of the 'Online Product Portfolio', which will, amongst other things, ask for details of three sites where Moodle's in use. Volunteers?

In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Awards

by Darren Smith -
Just a quick response but sounds great.

Both
demo.moodle.org
www.moodle.org but this is not UK based. I would be honored to volunteer my school site but if we get more than 3 then somebody important should have a look around and shortlist the options.
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards

by Miles Berry -
Hi Darren,
Splendid.
Reading through the docs, it seems we're allowed to submit between 3 and 5 (inclusive) reference sites.
Would you be able to host a demo moodle for the technical team at e-subjects.co.uk?
The pressing and immediate list has suddenly got a whole lot longer now I've had sight of the technical requirements.
I'll email you my first reactions to these for your input.
In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Awards

by Darren Smith -
e-subjects - no problem at all.

As time is short I can set up a wiki in course there and move it if needed

Looking through the technical specs would the Learning platforms category not be more suited. It specifically mentions VLE's in there.

I noticed your email arrived to will look at that now.
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -

I suggested to Miles we set up a Wiki to SPREAD THE LOAD for the application process.  To be honest I forgot the deadline was so imminent, but I've been asked to support the application for another product (in the software category) and that reminded me of the impending APPLICATION deadline sad 

As a reminder, I had already nominated it in the E-assessment category (as Miles said this is likely to have less 'competition') but 'covering the bases' may not be such a bad idea.  I just entered it for the Secondary Software category a moment or 2 ago and have yet to receive the email confirmation of that application.  

I am sure between the lot of us we could Wiki-fy an application which, if truth be told, would be itself perfect evidence of the benevolence within the Moodle community - because, of course the contributors to the application need not just be UK-based. This could be a true collaborative group effort and it might speed up the writing of the application.

Drew

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards

by Miles Berry -
We can easily pull out of one or other category, and it may be best to concentrate on one or the other.
Having skimmed both sets of criteria, my own feeling is that we have a closer match with the secondary software one.
The technical requirements list presents quite a set of hoops through which to jump!
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards

by Val Brooks -
I'm up for helping out with this in any way I can too. Does a whole site have to be available to view (I'm thinking of privacy etc for certain users and courses) but maybe we could 'exhibit' certain aspects of the sites we are involved in?
Cheers,
Val
In reply to Val Brooks

Re: BETT Awards

by Miles Berry -
Splendid, Val.
They need a demo site which they can play around with (which I hope Darren can host), and then a few reference sites to contact about whether Moodle does what we say it does. My reading is that if they need access to these, they'll physically visit the institution concerned.
In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Awards

by Darren Smith -
For the demo site should I set up a blank one or one with content - or both?
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards

by Miles Berry -
I think it needs to be blank, as it would be from a clean install. It also needs to be a full implementation in its own right, rather than merely a course on an existing Moodle, if you see what I mean.
They'll need to work through the instructions (whichever ones we include...) for creating their own courses and content, and incorporating resources from elsewhere.
Later on (if we get over the technical hurdle), they'll want to look at implementations with content.
If we include content at this stage then that content becomes part of the product, and I think getting a Moodle with all the content you could ever need ready for shipping on Tuesday might be a bit optimistic...
In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Awards

by Darren Smith -
I see. Makes sense.

I'll download the latest 1.5 and put it in e-subjects/becta at some point today. I'll go through the install process but keep it vanilla IYSWIM.

If moodle does not get all the way through the process due the time restrictions I think this would be a good exercise for next year anyway.
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards

by Miles Berry -
The thought of waiting until next year and doing the whole thing properly had crossed my mind.
I don't think we have anything to loose by having a stab at it this year, in order to gain experience for next time round, as you suggest. And, of course, the product does rather speak for itself!
In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -
Yep - but really it is possible to get it together in the next 4 days as the time before the next step after that is emminently do-able, IMHO. I would not have nominated it if I felt it was not viable and we can always nominate it AGAIN next year.
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -

I love it when a plan comes together. I'd have been happy to let them have a play within Merapolis.  But I didn't know to what extent they'd want to play around.

Anyway it seems like Miles has well and truly got a grip of what the requirements are, so at least we're going too give it the best shot we can.

Now just to clarify: I registered it in the E-assessment category a month ago and just today i regstered it in the Secondary Software category but have not had confrmation or the all-important Unique Identification Number.  I do think that E-assessment will have less products nominated whereas Secondary Software is going to be jam-packed with nominations.

In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -
Miles - can we set up a time to discuss this via Skype in the next day or so?  My 'handle' is Wellfan (Motherwell fan, happy because of 4-4 draw with the not-so mighty Celtic this afternoon!!!) if you want to find me big grin
In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Awards

by Val Brooks -
If it's any help too, I have a couple of examples with screenshots of courses we have (similar to those Miles attached recently) that I made as appendices for my assignment ( which thankfully I posted last Wednesday!) - but one is showing a German/English forum where we have connected with a German school abroad and students have posted messages in their 'foreign' language. Just realised though that they are on version 1.4 so no problem if they're not needed but let me know if they might be useful.
Val
In reply to Val Brooks

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -
This is great Val - this is going to be (with the exception of Darren) a CAL 2005 group application methinks smile  I think this GROUP application approach is brilliant (if I say so myself).
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards

by Darren Smith -
If you register at http://e-subjects.co.uk and enroll upon this course - http://e-subjects.co.uk/course/view.php?id=31 - then I will bump you (and anyone else who wants to help) up to teacher of the course. Feel free to add / change anything in the course. This may help us with efficiency.

Actually noticed Val and Miles are already there smile
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards

by Miles Berry -
OK, I've gone through the technical requirements and written a commentary for the judges. I've also tried to work out a list of the stuff still to do.
I wonder if anyone in the wider community can help with:
  • The technical specification -
    "Products must include a technical specification detailing information about standards supported and any products that relate to your entry."
  • Whether Moodle activites can be exported as SCORM (I don't think they can)
  • The whole accessibility ball park.
I've started these as discussions in what I hope are at least vaguely appropriate forums.
In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Awards

by Helen Foster -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators
Drew, fantastic idea! approve

Darren, great hosting! approve

Miles, excellent commentary! approve

I'm happy to help with the technical specification, including accessibility issues. smile
In reply to Helen Foster

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -

Right then Miles, no offence to any of the manufacturers of the following products, but the list that follows of past BETT Show winners shows that moodle has a CRACKING chance of this award.  There has been no E-assessment before therefore it is an unknown quantity.  I think you can see that the products (if you know them) are VERY VERY specialised in that they cater for a NARROW niche of the curriculum.

2003 Software winner - Crocodile Physics - GREAT PACKAGE but Physics only

2004 Software winner - Krucible - FANTASTIC package but SCIENCE only

2004 Online E-learning winner - Espresso - Primary Internet portal service

2005 Software winner - Sibelius Compass - Music only

2005 Learning & skills winner - Essential Guitar - VERY narrow branch of MUSIC only

2005 School management winner - Kaleidos - Product from RM (UK edcucationalists will know this company well) very broad - closest to Moodle but not fit to 'tie its laces'!!! smile

I think it is VERY promising to see that these have been the past winners.  Moodle has every chance of doing well.

In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -

Miles have you seen this thread?

http://moodle.org/mod/resource/view.php?id=4275

This could be what we are looking for re. the OReilly book. Can Martin help us track this doc. down in the absence of the actual book at this moment in time?

Heres a reference to Jason:

http://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=9318&course=29

If Jason sees this, could he get in touch/reply to this thread ASAP?

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards

by Val Brooks -
Drew,
I have a copy of this - I downloaded it when it was still available. Let me know if you want it - I guess we just have to get Jason's permission to use it?
Val
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards

by Jutti Marsh -

I have a copy of the book Using Moodle by Jason. It was just published. I preordered it as I had a course to write using moodle dumped in my lap with no one to introduce me to moodle! It has been extremely helpful. (As well as all the moodle help buttons!) It arrived via overnight delivery last Saturday, 30th of July.

The publishing company is located in California. If there is anything I can do to help get a copy of the book in your hands, let me know.

Jason is now working for Open University in the UK. From his last post I got the feeling he is in the process of moving from San Francisco to the UK.

Jutti

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards

by mandy honeyman -
I've emailed Jason Cole with a direct plea /link to read this thread. Even if it were possible to include the draft digital versions that would help, though the book does only currently address pre-v.1.5.

If you need any more example secondary school sites you are very welcome to include www.lvc.org. Assessors can use moodleguest/moodleguest for access and I could easily also give them teacher access to one of the on-going extra-curricular courses and perhaps also access to viewing our e-portfolio site (to come later in the summer I hope).

cheers
Mandy
In reply to mandy honeyman

Re: BETT Awards THANKS TO ALL

by Drew Buddie -

Mandy's post reminded me that I needed to thank all those of you on this who have already offered to supprt our application:

Miles Berry - has done a STONKING amount of work - including a BRILLIANT introductory product description and the creation of a Bootable Moodle on a disc!

Darren Smith - web hosting and tons and tons of advice

Jutti Marsh - offered to FEDEX a copy of Jason's book to me at OWN expense!!!

Helen Foster - tremendoues help with techie-type queries

Val Brooks - advice and twekaing of our comments

Art Lader - responding to my SKYPE call late 2 nights ago and tons of advice

and of course, JASON COLE - who contacted me last night to give permission for us to use pdf versions of his book for this application.

And of course all of you, including Martin, who have offered their support for what we are doing - it means a lot and lightens the load considerably.

In reply to mandy honeyman

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -
Mandy, thanks for your offer - it could well be that we use your site - especially if it features the e-assessment as much as you indicate as this is the category we are entering it for in the end. Can you email me privately with address and contact details that can go on the official form please?
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Thanks everyone for working on this, and sorry I've been so absent in the discussion so far. I remember starting the application process for this last year and I got bogged down and never did it.

I'm happy for the people in this thread to represent Moodle as far as Bett is concerned - I will probably continue being absent (still catching up with backlog plus opening Moodle HQ soon) but let me know directly via messaging if there's something you really need my imprimatur on!
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -
Glad we are doing this with your approval Martin.  I can think of no other package that is having such a revolutionary impact on education in this country and therefore it is well deserving of any accolade that is going.
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards

by Miles Berry -
The latest stumbling block:

> For a product or service that was launched prior to January 2003, the
> developer must prove that it is a significant update from previous
> editions. If your entry is an update and relies on a previous version to
> operate, you must supply two copies of each version.
>
> Tick box if product launched before January 2003
>
> You need to highlight three key differences (in brief bullet-points)
> between the original product/service, and the update."

Any suggestions from the old timers here as to the most significant changes since January 2003?
In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Awards

by Darren Smith -
That appears to be since 1.0.8!

The waybackmachine may provide some clues. This is moodle.org in Jan 03:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030205000138/moodle.com/
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -

Yes Darren,

I someone can supply me with just a bullet pointed list of the features, I can incorporate these into my application.  I suspect the sheer no. will be far more than required - this aspect of the application will be to stop people resubmitting the same package time after time.

Drew

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards

by Art Lader -
In reply to Art Lader

Re: BETT Awards

by Art Lader -

Just three? The addition of groups and the many third-party modules, blocks and hacks seem quite important to me. So does the emergence of high-quality Moodle partners.

Other thoughts?

-- Art

In reply to Art Lader

Re: BETT Awards

by Darren Smith -
I thought of blocks and messaging but it would be nice if we could find something with more direct roots in learning in terms of making it appear less trivial.

We all know these things are not trivial but to somebody who is not aware of the system they might.

How about the introduction of a modular assignment activity to allow various different assessment methods (inline, upload) as well as third part additions (feedback files)

Ahhh. Of course. The introduction of hot potato integration is a must big grin

Also, what about the incorporation of a wiki for collaborative learning?

Any quiz experts reading know of any pedagogical sound-bite worthy additions smile
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards

by Miles Berry -
Thank you all.
I've tralled through each of the release notes between 1.0.8 and 1.5.2 - it's astonishing how much has changed in less than half a major version.
How do we feel about:
* Integration of a far wider range of activities, including wiki, shared
glossarys, online assignments, interactive lessons, peer reviewed
exercises, chat and messaging.
* Enhanced user interface, including user calendars, CSS based themes,
HTML blocks and content on site and course pages, HTML WYSIWYG editing
and RSS feeds.
* Support for wider range of external formats including SCORM, RQP and Hot Potato.

In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Awards

by Darren Smith -
Wow. What a list!
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -

I've entered 3 of those (sadly the box had a limiter of 50 characters!!!!- shows how little they expect each version of software to have changed from iteration to iteration!) but I have written what i could.

Been in contact with Becta and the lady to whom we submit stuff.  She seemed VERY excited by our 'project' ie. the team effort that has gone into the application.  Worryingly (and this explains so much) that despite working at Becta as she does, she did not know what a Blog or Wiki was!!!!!

Anyway - all will be posted by end of play today and the rest of the stuff uploaded to them tomorrow.

I'll keep you all posted on our progress as I find out more.

In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -

Martin, I missed the bit in your post where you said that you had started the ball rolling on an application last year.  You'll probably have an idea of what Miles and I said about the hoops to jump through.  Still it looks like PHASE ONE is nearing completion big grin and the Bootable discs produced by Miles are winging their way to Becta, as I type this.  The pdf manual files (thanks Jason - I'm not worthy!) have been confirmed as received by Becta and I've filled all need to fill in at this moment in time on the online product portfolio.  If I say so myself, we've given this our best shot, and with the reference sites to be looked at in September (get your nominations in now!) it can, surely, only impress the judges.  I've phoned them somany times today they clearly know who we are, and one guy I contacted said he was looking out for the pdf's arriving, so here's hoping things go in our favour smile  A nomination on its own would be an achevement. BTW they did say that the forms I've had to fill in are not designed for this sort of product, perhaps we might persuade them for the need to have an Open Source category next year.

Thanks again to everyone who has aided this application.  And your 'blessing'  (Martin) also gave us a much-needed boost.

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards

by Darren Smith -
Thanks to you from the moodle community for all of your hard work and leadership on this.

Looking at some of the criteria I can see a new category would be better but I would not like to see it entered in an Open Source category. I would much rather see moodle beat off commercial alternatives wink

Great news about the enthusiasm regarding the application. Regarding a BECTA contact not knowing about wikis and the like - a TV crew for BECTA were in our school last week and when I mentioned moodle the guy new exactly what I was talking about so there is hope - increasingly so after all of your hard work over the last few days.

The force will be with you ..... always big grin
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -

Shucks Darren, you're too kind blush Ican't give any of that techie help so many of you give out, sio this is my way to do my 'bit' for Moodle.  I see what you mean about Moodle standing on its won merits, rather than being in an OS category - but perhaps then Becta need to redo their application procedure to accommodate products like this.

BTW - meant to say - I LOVE your avatar, your wee lad I presume?  I'm going to let you know when the parcel is despatched.  Then my job is done for now sleepy

The new Frank Black and Josh Ritter CDs have helped maintain my sanity for the past 2 days as I've been doing my 'bit'. Oh

In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards

by David Scotson -

I'd think a 'web application' category would be a good fit for Moodle as many of the questions assume you either have a local installation of a 'program' or a 'website' and Moodle (and WebCT and Blackboard, ATutor etc.) is somewhere in between.

I've added some stuff to the wiki about their accessability requirements, I hope it's useful, but because of the mismatch talked about above it's a bit of an square peg / round hole situation.

Re: BECTA in general

Apparently the big cheese at BECTA used to be a bit of a loyal Microsoftie, but has been recently replaced with someone who has an actual interest in getting value for our (taxpayer's!) money. (That's all second hand hearsay, so take with a grain of salt)

BECTA's recent study on Open Source software was very good reading and certainly suggests a change of heart:

http://www.becta.org.uk/corporate/press_out.cfm?id=4681

In reply to David Scotson

Re: BETT Awards

by Drew Buddie -
David - thanks for your input smile  And your other words of wisdom.  I agree with you about "Web Application" category.
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards - Phase One complete

by Drew Buddie -

Just to keep those of you who are interested 'up to speed', Becta have this morning confirmed receipt of the software (bootable discs) and documentation that I have sent to them by snail mail.

So onto Phase Two.

To summarise - we are now entered in the E-assement category for the prestigious Bett awards.  The next stage is where Becta test the nominated products and use up to 5 referees to show how the product has been and is used.  I think this happens in September onwards.  I will continue to keep you all posted on our progress.

In the meantime, I'd like to put out this call for people to email me privately (drew@buddie.plus.com)  nominating their SCHOOL site as showing good use of Moodle - there needs to be evidence of assessment going on, seeing as we are entered in the e-assessment category.  Be advised that referees need to be prepared to complete some paperwork and perhaps host a visit from Becta themselves. 

We have 5 interested referees already, but it'd be nice to hear from other people who'd be interested in assisting in this Phase of the application.  Those of us involved in the application so far would like as many potential sites as possible to choose from.  For the purposes of this application all would need to be in Reception to 18 age range and based in the UK - although of course, that should not really matter.

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Ian Usher -

Hi all,

well, I sure picked the right/wrong week to go on holiday sad - apologies for not helping out.

Anyhoo, Drew and I (and others? I forget Moodle conversations so easily as I have too many of them) have discussed the potential for a Moodle stand at BETT in the future and I think it would be the natural outcome of this process. As far as funding it goes, well I'd be prepared to stump up some cash and I daresay that partners might be able to help out. I shall almost certainly be at BETT for part of it (with my work with Macromedia Adobe (however that pans out) but would love to bang on about Moodle to anyone who will listen. When I was on the MM stand at BETT earlier this year I had as many conversations about Moodle as I did about Breeze etc. (which is what I was ostensibly there for). I also know a lot of senior folk in the Education side at MM are keen on Moodle too cool

I've also had a conversation with a guy who used to run the Teacher Resources Exchange from Becta - he came up to me at an ICT and Creativity conference we ran here in Bucks and asked me to tell him about what we were doing with Moodle. We discussed it for ages and in the end he asked me to summarise everything in an email to him, which he said he'd take to his director if he could - it was along the lines of teachers sharing resources with each other (sounds familiar?).

in the past Mandy Honeyman, Andy O'Brien, Drew B and others (apologies) have discussed setting up a semi-official school Moodle users group (see the acronym potential there? big grin)- I mentioned this to the Becta guy (who I'm not going to name for his own good!) and he said it sounded interesting. My vision is to have something which:

  • is recognised by Becta as being a starting point for schools wishing to find out about using Moodle
  • has some sort of 'official' Moodle.org accreditation as I don't want to duplicate much of what goes on on moodle.org in terms of advice and experience - there's no time to re-invent the wheel
  • can influence the development of Moodle as appropriate so its scope is and hence its influence is increased
  • can validate, commission and 'badge' standard Moodle units to support National Strategy (and other) courses here in the UK - which many of us are doing individually, but IMO would really benefit from strategic co-ordination - and would therefore considerably smooth the transition when a school starts using Moodle, as they could have 'off the peg' content mapped to strategies and any other national initiatives which turn up
  • and some other stuff too... but I'm about to go and see Charlie and the Chocolate Factory afdter work and it starts soon!

I said that ideally I'd like to have Becta 'approve' or even 'badge' what such a group might do and the guy from Becta intimated that this might be possible, so I'm currently in the middle of an email to him which I think I'm gonna run by Drew if and when we meet up next week to cobble our Moot presentation together wink

so here's a request:

anyone interested in drawing up the spec for this sort of group? I think it's important that both the Becta and Moodle.org aspects are involved, or we'll miss out somewhere. what about membership? funding? anyone want to run it? does this naturally lead on to a regular BETT presence? aaaaargh!

your answers are eagerly anticipated, mainly 'cos they'll be better than mine

take care

i. 

In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Drew Buddie -
Re Charlie & the Chocolate Factory - see if you can spot LIz (my wife) she's in a couple of scenes cool
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Ian Usher -

now, I know she's not an oompa loompa... smile say "hello" to her from me.

right, must dash to the newsagents on the way out and buy a Wonka bar

In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Drew Buddie -
I had a thought that we could set a time - say 2 days in half term in October - for interested parties to meet.  I could book some rooms and accommodation at the school here as there is no 'trade' then.  We could run some workshops/seminars etc brainstorm and discussion sessions with a proposed outcome (beyond drinking beer and networking) that we have a working Charter and Mission Statement ready to roll-out after we have met.  Cost would be minimal - as our boarding facilities are not en suite (yet!) or there are some nearby hotels that could be used.  I would be prepared to administer this - perhaps we could promote it at the MoodleMoot (I could do some flyers).  It could be a nice starting point.
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Sean Keogh -
> perhaps we could promote it at the MoodleMoot (I could do some flyers).  It
> could be a nice starting point.

Please do.

There will be a table in the exhibition room for flyers like that.  Or you could hand them out during coffee breaks and so on.


Sean K Beardie
In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Darren Smith -
just a quick response to let you know that Jason Hando came up with some comprehensive ideas for a similar kind of things although not for becta - it was more along the lines of international links for secondary teachers. Although Martin didn't go for it he did set up the K-12 forum here as a results a few days ago (section 3).

Send a moodle message to Jason and I'm sure he will let you have a look at his ideas.

It's a difficult situation as nobody wants to take traffic away from moodle.org but for schools in the UK to jump in something more official - like a becta tie - would make a lot of people take notice.
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Drew Buddie -

Can I say Darren, first and foremost, my proposal (at least the idea I first mooted - it may have evolved since I first bandied it around to others like Ian), was certainly NOT intended to divert ANYTHING whatsoever from Moodle.org.  But rather to complement it.  To run concurrently with it.  The MoodleMoot is a FANTASTIC meeting of minds, but as I'm sure anyone will admit, it is not ALL for teachers of school pupils.  I feel that a User Group which supports people (no matter how technically minded) in their use of Moodle WITHIN SCHOOLS would specifically be able to target issues that address only people in that category.  This could then direct traffic TO moodle.org too. 

I'd like to think of what I have in mind as being like the RPGA (Role Play Gamers Association) where members of that organisation spread the word, volunteer for demos, talk at conferences and conventions etc.  The RPGA (and subgroups thereof) ENCOURAGE people to play and experiment with role playing games, without detracting from any over-arching organisational events organised by Wizards of the Coast (who own the rights to Dungeons and Dragons etc.).  Thats the role I'd like to see such a group play.

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Ian Usher -

...and for what it's worth I'd say that that is exactly my intention as well. A long long time ago (...I can still remember when... sorry, songs in my head there) I mooted to Martin D the idea of having a course / section / whatever on moodle.org specifically to focus on its use in K-19 / compulsory education rather than FE or HE - since I'm firmly of the belief that people using Moodle in schools face significantly different issues to those in FE or HE, while sharing many of the same 'general' issues.

This is why it needs to be intrinsically linked to moodle.org (see my previous post) to prevent duplication but does need a distinctive (in the UK anyway) identity so that bodies such as Becta can (we hope) point to it as a place to receive support and guidance. Martin's response at the time was that it wasn't something he favoured - which was probably correct at the time... I might be of the opinion that that situation has changed now.

By the way Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is fantastic - Drew, was Liz in the crowd scenes outside the factory? One quote: Don't touch his nuts...! surprise

In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Jason Hando -
Cheers Darren for the mention and well done everyone for such an amazing team effort during the BETT award process.

The timing of comments in this thread are simply amazing. The two lines of comments to which I particularly refer are:

1. Teachers developing & sharing resources in Moodle format

2. Creating a space for K-12 School collaboration and support

It was only a few weeks ago that Darren and I finalised our proposal to create a new group of collaborative K-12 Schools for the purpose of supporting future Moodle development. We tossed ideas back and forward, between Australia and England, and eventually the proposal found it's way to Martin who spoke to me about it f2f when we met at the Aussie Moodle Moot.

I walked away from that discussion encouraged - firstly that my initial feeling that Moodle was in good hands was confirmed by the character I witnessed in Martin as he discussed openly with moot delegates and shared his vision for Moodle's future. I witnessed a commited and upstanding individual.

Secondly, that a Moodle HQ, also mentioned by Martin in this thread, is being set-up with full-time staff with delegated responsibilities to cope with Moodle growth and the future. Very exciting smile

I believe we are standing at the edge of a very well-nourished crop of wheat - in the form of schools around the world crying out for simple yet effective digital solutions to enhance learning. As I mentioned in the new K-12 Forum, schools like mine that have been blessed with resources and staff and know-how should share with others. If for no other reason than to expand menaingful education and ultimately our own effectiveness as educators. But on top of this cogent reason there is the concept that Moodle is something to be shared in the true spirit of this community.

The idea so far, for which I encourage feedback, and about which there seems to have been considerable thought by others already (like Ian, Drew & Darren), is to form a worldwide group of Moodle affiliate schools - committed to supporting the future of Moodle in schools.

The goals of the group could be:

1. Constantly brainstorming, prototyping and prioritising school-useful features for Moodle

2. Organising a collaborative funding approach to ensure programming process can happen - perhaps a tendering process where schools keen on a feature make budget-specific commitments

3. Developing meaningful content/resources/learning stimulus to share with others

What are your thoughts? Is there enough groundswell and interest?

Cheers,
Jason





In reply to Jason Hando

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Drew Buddie -

The package is at Becta now as are the many attachments I emailed them.  So we hold our breath and wait...thoughtful

Re: what you mentioned about Martin.  After meeting him in Oxford I felt that as a person he embodies all that is GOOD in education today.  It is great that his goals for Moodle so closely match those desires that we ourselves have for it.  Well certainly speaking for myself this is true.

I share your thoughts about sharing with others.  I teach at a private girls cschool and I have long believed that we need to give something to the community - be it local or further afield. A couple of years ago i did this by going round local state primary schools in my spare time providing ICT training for their staff.  This was a big commitment which I was willing to udertake in order to be seen to be supporting the local community.  I see the "thing" we are discussing as being like this.  Giving something to schools who are not as furtunate as ourselves to have the resources etc that we do.

I am in Mirandanet a FREE-TO-JOIN, ICT-supporting organisation which is run by a similarly committed individual to Martin, Christina Preston.  This organisation has different chapters around the world that all belong to the overarching Mirandanet organisation.  I see a model for us in that.  By the way, I urge anyone who wants to to join Mirandanet although Tina is a very busy lady and often hard to get hold of, belonging to this organisation has  been one of the best things I have ever personally done in education.  We have projects underway in South African townships and in China that really are reaching out to people that would otherwise not have such opportunities.

I very much prefer this approach of benevolence, to that of 2 certain establishments in the UK that have marketed educational products to fellow schools and made a large fortune from doing so, instead of sharing those resources FREELY with all schools in the country.  We can buck that sort of trend.  We can show how educational collaboration really should be.  We can lead by example.

In reply to Jason Hando

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Drew Buddie -

The package is at Becta now as are the many attachments I emailed them.  So we hold our breath and wait...thoughtful

Re: what you mentioned about Martin.  After meeting him in Oxford I felt that as a person he embodies all that is GOOD in education today.  It is great that his goals for Moodle so closely match those desires that we ourselves have for it.  Well certainly speaking for myself this is true.

I share your thoughts about sharing with others.  I teach at a private girls cschool and I have long believed that we need to give something to the community - be it local or further afield. A couple of years ago i did this by going round local state primary schools in my spare time providing ICT training for their staff.  This was a big commitment which I was willing to udertake in order to be seen to be supporting the local community.  I see the "thing" we are discussing as being like this.  Giving something to schools who are not as furtunate as ourselves to have the resources etc that we do.

I am in Mirandanet a FREE-TO-JOIN, ICT-supporting organisation which is run by a similarly committed individual to Martin, Christina Preston.  This organisation has different chapters around the world that all belong to the overarching Mirandanet organisation.  I see a model for us in that.  By the way, I urge anyone who wants to to join Mirandanet although Tina is a very busy lady and often hard to get hold of, belonging to this organisation has  been one of the best things I have ever personally done in education.  We have projects underway in South African townships and in China that really are reaching out to people that would otherwise not have such opportunities.

I very much prefer this approach of benevolence, to that of 2 certain establishments in the UK that have marketed educational products to fellow schools and made a large fortune from doing so, instead of sharing those resources FREELY with all schools in the country.  We can buck that sort of trend.  We can show how educational collaboration really should be.  We can lead by example.

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Ian Usher -
I think there are (at least) two distinct characteristics of such a group (for the UK anyway) which would need to be maintained for it to work...
  1. the link with moodle.org - possibly as part of it, or at least a semi-authoritative community (from the moodlers' points of view) which exists within moodle.org (and might be mirrored somewhere else so relevant input on moodle.org is immediately reflected in the group's 'Becta' face and vice versa)
  2. the relationship with Becta / DfES / whoever to provide a trusted source (from a school which is edging its toes towards the water of online learning) from which to get advice, experience, guidance and support
one without the other won't work imho...
  • 1 without 2 could be seen as a hobby for keen geeks within schools which the SMT (senior management team) within a school could dismiss as a hobbyist's project which doesn't have the potential to impact on learning, teaching, attainment, culture etc. If it doesn't come with an 'official' endorsement on it, some schools won't touch it (of course, the reverse is also true wink)
  • 2 without 1 would distract from the overall direction of moodle as a product / movement / set of ideas and runs the risk of re-inventing the wheel rather than improving it (if you see what I mean)
there are lots more implications and opportunities, but these are some of the core ones (I think)

Shoot me if you like, but one other thought for those of us in the UK - if we can 'officially' set standards for free Moodle compatible content and get it properly verified / tagged / checked by an officially approved body... shouldn't we put it on Curriculum Online? cool

[runs away and hides]
In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Jason Hando -
Hi Ian,

Thanks for your throughly thought out ideas. Before running off to my son's football (known around here as soccer) match I would like to throw in my two cents worth:

- firstly, still catching up with all the jargon - have learnt that BECTA is "the [Britain] Government's key partner in the strategic development and delivery of its information and communications technology (ICT) and e-learning strategy for the schools and the learning and skills sectors." Sounds like a useful type of organisation and worth linking into - shame nothing like that exists (that I know of) in Australia.

- secondly, I favour a global umbrella model such as Darren's recent suggestion.... I think there is power in global and Moodle seems to do this nicely so why not a school user/support group following suit. I think it is entirely possible for various national groups (SMUGS!) to link in with whatever organisation they deem appropriate to make it more effective as you suggest.

-thirdly, I think this discussion should be moved over to the K-12 Schools forum

- finally, it would be great to have some input on the f2f discussions that have been suggested. Is there any way that time at the Oxford moot could be set aside for discussion and include voice-chat using skype or even video chat via vskype or ichat (Apple) to broaden the input and start with a global approach right from the word go?




In reply to Jason Hando

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Ian Usher -

Yes, would be nice if it could be moved into k-12 - however, if I may be honest & awkward, even the phrase k-12 has its issues - I think that k-12 and 13-19 (or something along those lines - k-19?) would be a more accurate description for the areas I'm thinking of - the 14-19 agenda has been a hot topic here in the UK and I think the whole area of online learning could both be impacted by and impact this area of education, especially in the UK.

I think the global umbrella is important as well, but believe that it's still really critical that the local aspect is emphasised, since this is what will 'hook' people in a particular region and meet their needs and many be the critical factor between a school / group of schools considering using something like Moodle.

As you mention, with agencies like Becta existing in some territories and not others the landscape and driving factors will be different, and I can't really say much about the relationship between moodle.org <-> a global "schools using Moodle" community <-> (for example) a UK SMUG might be - and where pedagogy, practice (good and bad), technological aspects, assessment models would be covered in that range of groups. Some aspects appear easy to pigeonhole but in practice I can see them cropping up anywhere smile For example, an emphasis on Assessment for Learning (including peer assessment) has obvious implications in a moodle users' environment with some of the tools available, but the implications of that for UK schools using Moodle may be removed from a global context, since as you can see from the link above there is a fair amount of UK-specific guidance on that already.

Actually, as I read back on this it doesn't seem like it's adding much, just "here are some more spanners for the works" sort of stuff, so I'll leave it there. Not sure it clarifies things, but hopefully you can see the complexity of all this (I'm sure it's apparent!)

[Oh, and as far as transmitting the face to face sessions which may or may not happen at or as a result of the Moot, does this mean we'll have to find a pub with wireless broadband. Oh well... I guess if it has to be done smile]

Actually, on a serious note we could use vSkype, or I have a shedload of Macromedia Breeze capacity that we could use...

In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Drew Buddie -

I know what you mean by the terminology of 'k-12' but in that sort of 'diapers/nappies, faucet/tap Bill-Bryson-mothertongue' way where the title actually means little to most teachers in the UK.  I used to find it frustrating that Yahoo used that for its way of categorising schools as opposed to post 18 education.  But to take the point you mean, yes 14-19 is a particularly appropriate group to look at in particular.  Furthermore, there is great potential for 'school refusers' to be involved in courses, or for shortage subject teachers (say Latin, Politics, Philosophy, Psychology, Economics etc all offered at MY school but not at nearby ones) to offer access to their courses to pupils wishing to study them but from beyond the confines of our school.

I'd also like to look, in the coming year, at using Moodle with the under 11's.  I teach Years 5 and 6 and I want to see how I can use it effectively with them.  As using Oracle's UTTERLY UTTERLY BRILLIANT think.com has inspired me to bigger and better things.

It's great that the SMUG idea is now building a head of steam big grin

In reply to Ian Usher

Re: You say tomatoes

by Jason Hando -
Excuse my ignorance but by K-12 are you meaning:

Kindergarten to Year 12

OR

Kindergarten to 12 Year Olds?


I get the impression UK terminology uses ages? I think USA terminology is same as Aus which uses year/grade level.

Perhaps there is a better name for the new forum? Any suggestions?


In reply to Jason Hando

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Darren Smith -
So that's what it stands for!

In the UK we now use a year system like you. Kids start compulsory education at at year 1 (obviously!) and finish in year 11. At the end of year 11 they will be 16 years old. A lot of students stay on in schools which have a sixth form (year 12 and a year 13( so they will be 18 when they leave.

At the end of year 9 students take SATS in English, Science and Maths and soon ICT
At the end of year 11 students take GCSE exams
At the end of year 12 students take AS examinations
At the end of year 13 students take A2 (A Level) examinations.
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Jason Hando -
So what abbreviation do you use for the entire spread of education, including non-compulsory year 12 & 13?

K-13?

Should the forum be called K-13?

I'm gonna ask this question in the schools forum to see what response we get and if there is confusion over title, which btw wasn't called "Moodle in Schools" because schools exist at college/university, eg. "School of Engineering."

I'm learning fast in this global community smile
In reply to Jason Hando

Re: Let's call the whole thing off!

by Darren Smith -
K12 means more to us than K13 as we are used to 'translating' from american wink. That said, you have to be in the know to translate in the first place.

We call years 1-6 primary schools, years 7-11 secondary schools and schools with sixth forms (12 - 13) are called ... ummm ... schools with sixth forms!

Just to confuse things more we have some (not many at all) middle schools which are years 7 - 9. They drift in and out of fashion smile
In reply to Jason Hando

Re: You say tomatoes

by Drew Buddie -

My point EXACTLY Jason! big grin  Bill Bryson's Mothertongue is great on this topic.

In the UK we DO NOT use the terminology K-12, but Yahoo et al make no allowances for any other way of categorising educational 'phases' - a bit like the way that BBC weather coverage thought that Britain amounted to anywhere south of Birmingham (as a Scot I'm glad to see they listened to reason!).

Our Kindergarten equivalent (first year of primary from age 4-5) is called RECEPTION, Then we have KEY STAGES 1, 2 (that's the end of PRIMARY) 3 (first 3 years of SECONDARY) 4 (2 years of study for examinations) and 5 (last 2 years of secondary if you stay on to study A levels etc).  In the case of this group - Martin called it what was best (and it is BRILLIANT that he set such a forum up) and I have no argument about that whatsoever, I'm only saying that the name 'K-12' only means something to SOME people.

Would not something GENERIC be best - something that fits ALL potential users?

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: You say tomatoes

by Darren Smith -
Ummm. When you say 'this group' we are actually in the social forum and this thread seems to have taken over.

If you look at the using moodle course in section 3 you will see where this conversation should be!
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: I'm a K-12 thread get me out of here

by Ian Usher -
Just got a really weird email. See if you can make sense of it...

<snip>
Dear anyone with admin rights,
I'm a K-12 topic which was started in the Open Social Forum and I've grown up a fair bit since then - could someone please pick me up and drop me into the K-12 forum where I (probably) belong? I'm getting a bit too big for my diapers now, I'm getting interested in other things (oooh, there's something with SMUG written on it over there) and at this rate I'll be drawing on the walls with magic markers and barfing on the social forum's carpet soon, so please take me home!
Yours in anticipation of a new home,
"BETT Awards"
PS Is it Friday? Ah, that explains why I'm talking to myself wide eyes
</snip>
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: You say tomatoes

by Jason Hando -
"Would not something GENERIC be best - something that fits ALL potential users?"

Do you have any suggestions?
In reply to Jason Hando

Re: You say tomatoes

by Jutti Marsh -

Perhaps the best thing would be to refer to students' age groups instead of the various labels our educational systems use to label them!

Jutti

In reply to Jutti Marsh

Re: You say tomatoes

by Dale Jones -
Hear hear, Jutti. I couldn't agree more. Referring to age groups would also allow my wife (and others of her generation and older not directly associated with education) to take part. Often conversation around the table contains comments like "Year 8; remind, me is that second year or third year?". I daren't mention Key Stages.

While I'm on the topic, I'm going to put my hand in the air and say that I only just looked up k-12 in wikipedia. To my surprise it represents (quote)

Primary education and secondary education together referred to as "K-12" education in Canada and the United States. A common pronunciation is kay-through-twelve.

The K stands for kindergarten, the first year of primary education, and the 12 is for twelfth grade, generally the last year of secondary education.

Oh dear, now I needed to look up the "grade" system. Foolishly (and erroneously it transpires) I always assumed that "6th Grade" equated with the UK Year 6. How wrong can you be, eh?

Oh my giddy aunt, more assumptions cast asunder - "High School" ain't the same either. And what the Dickens is a "Sophomore"? I always thought it was something to do with flags. I really ought to pay more attention in class.

So referring to age groups by, er, their age (like "14-19" or "11-13") rather than an arbitrary governmental line-in-the-sand really would help I think.

*edit* Just scrolled up and saw Darren's post on this - sorry if I'm covering the same ground.


In reply to Jason Hando

Re: You say tomatoes

by Drew Buddie -

Well, that'd be TOO easy, wouldn't it? thoughtful

Honestly?  All I can think of, despite the vagaries of the likes of 'school of engineering' at XYZ University, I see that 'SCHOOLS' is a more complex word than I first realised:  as Wikipedia says "A school is any place designated for learning. The range of institutions covered by the term varies from country to country." And another site says "At an Australian university the term school refers to an academic unit (eg the School of Humanities). Australian students attending universities never refer to themselves as attending school, nor do they refer to the university as my school."  But I again humbly suggest it, despite that, beause SMUG is such a COOL name cool

Or 'Ages 4-19' is also a possibility, albeit a very clumsy one.

Or 'Pre-University'? (horrible, I know, but hey, you challenged me smile and I'm clutching at very sparse straws).

Or Ages under 19 - or a variant thereof.

Or ... I give up for the moment.

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: You say tomatoes

by Darren Smith -
I like the ages idea. Are we considering really small kids?

How about:
  • Compulsory Education
  • Compulsory State Education
  • State Education
  • Compulsory Educational Participants
  • Education 11 - 18 (or whatever start / end age)
  • Compulsory Education ages 11 - 18 (not strictly accurate)


In reply to Darren Smith

Re: You say tomatoes

by Drew Buddie -

Darren said: "Are we considering really small kids?"

Well Miles is Deputy Head at a Primary school and I'm going to be trying to use it with Key Stage 2 (ages 8-11) this coming year.  To what degree of success of course, I do not know, but I'm gonna give a try given Miles' great work!

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: You say tomatoes

by Drew Buddie -

big grin What I meant of course, Darren (bottle o' vino, slightly belated personal post-Becta application celebration) was, do not underestimate (not that I am suggesting you have, of course smile) the power of Moodle and the ages with which it can successfully be used.

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: You say tomatoes

by Darren Smith -
Enjoy every drop mate, you deserve it smile

It would be interesting to find out at what age kids can use moodle in it's current state and if themes could be produced to help students that can't read.

My son, the dark jedi, is three and a bit and can just about navigate the cbeebies website through memory. By the time we get them in secondary they are more than capable of using it.
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: You say tomatoes

by Drew Buddie -

Dale said: "Enjoy every drop mate, you deserve it " blush 

"It would be interesting to find out at what age kids can use moodle in it's current state and if themes could be produced to help students that can't read."

I absolutel;y agree: my work with think.com with 7 and 8 year olds has shown that kid's ability to use ICT at WHATEVER age should NEVER be underestimated!  Like you imply, perhaps we just need to make the interface suit their needs. 

A good example: take touchtyping - B O R I N G - but add the dimension offered by the likes of this site and WOW you now have 5 and 6 year olds in the PALM OF YOUR HAND!!!   And this has been the case at my school.

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: You say tomatoes

by Val Brooks -
Couldn't agree more Drew - I saw two Year 3 children recently lying on the floor in front of their laptops which were lined up next to each other, and when I asked what they were doing, they just looked at me as if to say ' don't you know?' and then quite simply told me they were transferring their powerpoint files to each other's laptop using the infra red port!
Hmmmmmm - would many teachers know how to do that, do you think?
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: You say tomatoes

by Drew Buddie -
Sorry I misattributed the quotes to Dale Jones (who I was Skype-ing at the time!) instead of Darren - mind addled by that wine!  Sorry Darren.  Especially when you said such a nice thing about me black eye 
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: You say tomatoes

by warmac - -
that's right, get the children hooked into the artificial education matrix while they are still young,

that way they can grow up completely mindless and dependant on technology thereby replacing the parent, teacher, etc.

I promote to not expose kids to technology at too early of an age, let them be a kid. There's a reason why kids are becoming exccessively overweight, bad eyesight, slower learning ability, etc all due to web and technology not to mention not-so-inspiring teacher role-models in the class room.

It makes perfect sense though, unhealthy teacher = unhealthy student, unhealthy parent = unhealthy child, it all makes good sense, nothing is left out as "i don't know how it happen"

moddle is great peace of work for sure but, its technology nothing more, anyone who believes moddle will improve their childs learning or make them smarter, well i have some land on the moon i want to sell them he he smile

when moddle coffee mugs, t-shirts, undies become more important than the educational message to young kids, the purpose becomes lost

I'd like to see moddle become less cult like and more of an organized group of responsible educators who believe the msg is greater than the tool smile

In reply to warmac -

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by Drew Buddie -

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but in the case of your post Warmac, I think you are well off beam. Still not sure if it is a wind-up, but if so I bit the bait.

It cannot go unanswered, even if a joke.

The pupils YOU teach (if indeed you do teach and I seriously cannot see how can and post what you have done) may well be "completely mindless and dependant on technology thereby replacing the parent, teacher, etc." but mine certainly are not! I invite you to look at some of the work I and many many others have been doing, not only using Moodle but using ICT to SUPPORT learning across the curriculum. Your comments do a disservice to children, never mind teachers and parents.

You may well feel it is right to " promote to not expose kids to technology at too early of an age, let them be a kid". My 8 year old loves being a kid. He loves playing Age of Empires or Animal Crossing on the computer, then GOING OUTSIDE AND PLAYING AT BARTERING OR HELPING PEOPLE (SOMETHING FOSTERED IN ANIMAL CROSSING). He also learns more from such games than he currently does in his Maths, Citizenship, English etc etc etc lessons at school where he is still being taught the 4 times table and how to write "the cat sat on the mat" whilst on the PC he's composing ultimatums to the King or Persia or sending letters to his Animal Crossing 'pals' and sending fossils to the museum for identification. He knew what a Trebuchet was at the age of 6 I didnt till I was 36! He not only knew what one was, he built a strategy around doing the econmic policy needed to get to the point where he could get a Trebuchet, because he knew it could make him invincible. Hes helped Joan of Arc get to Orleans safely. Whats he doing in History at school? Drawing World War II gas masks and copying about Henry VIII from text books! My kid is a kid and loves being a kid. But I invite you to chat to him about the Goths and the Vikings I guarantee you, he will tell you things you never knew about them. And he never learned any of that from school! Zoo Tycoon has taught him more about habitats than his science lessons at school will for the next 4 years (I know the curriculum).

I think your statement " There's a reason why kids are becoming exccessively overweight, bad eyesight, slower learning ability, etc all due to web and technology not to mention not-so-inspiring teacher role-models in the class room" is completely and utterly misguided and without foundation. I think you will find there other things to blame in society for children being over weight (like parents not saying 'no' to their kids when they want sweets, or kids eating far too much in the first place), than 'the web' . With respect, that's just an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. Where's your evidence for that? Its as wrong as the Daily Mirror was when its headline after the dreadful bombings in Madrid , was Massacred by Mobiles. Such an approach smacks of fear. Fear of technology and of other people knowing more about technology than we ourselves do.

As for " It makes perfect sense though, unhealthy teacher = unhealthy student, unhealthy parent = unhealthy child, it all makes good sense, nothing is left out as "i don't know how it happen" " I can't follow your argument. It makes no sense whatsoever. Oh, but from what I can decipher, I think it is an insult to teachers all over. Surely you are not suggesting that teachers like me (or Darren to whom you were replying), passionate about Moodle and using it with students as I am, am an 'unhealthy teacher'? If you are saying this then, with respect, you have not got a clue what you are talking about.

And Id like to know how YOU are using Moodle, because for you to be able to say "anyone who believes moddle will improve their childs learning or make them smarter, well i have some land on the moon i want to sell them" then you simply cannot be making the most of a resource that will, yes it WILL (and other VLEs, dont get me wrong), revolutionise teaching and learning in schools. Suffice to say that from using Moodle for the past 2 years I have got UNBELIEVABLE and UNPARALLELED results with my students and I KNOW it is down to the empowerment that Moodle has given me to SUPPORT their learning in previously UNIMAGINABLE ways. Really.

I wish you no ill, but you are WRONG! And it is seldom I ever say that to anybody. Ever. But you are.

[By the way to be clear all text in italics are quotes from your original post. Oh and its ironic that you should say: when moddle coffee mugs, t-shirts, undies become more important than the educational message to young kids, the purpose becomes lost because one of your posts a week or so ago saidwas just thinking how hot it would be to see a woman wearing a Moodle thong! You miss the point, you miss the point about the COLLABORATION that goes on in Moodle.org, I'd say the Moodle merchandise (and the t-shirt voting for example) PERFECTLY illustrates why MOODLE is different]

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by Darren Smith -
Woah! I was going to add some of my thoughts in response to the post but I don't think I would ever be able to nail it with as much passion as you just have. When my son goes to school I hope, no I beg, that he has at least 1 teacher throughout his whole time in education with as much passion and caring as you clearly have.

Only one thing left to do ....

<Standing Ovation>
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by Art Lader -

Drew,

You made my day. Thanks for that!

-- Art

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by warmac - -
as expected you took my word tid bits and blew them way out of context smile

the post was not directed to you specifically and if you read you would have knowned that so don't get bent out of shape :P

again if you read the post and inbetween the lines you'll know that alot of what i had stated was FACT you can deny it as most teachers, parents do but you are only fooling yourself if you believe that all teachers, parents, education, technology is perfect and we live in perfect world where there's no fault geeze man wake up smile

unheathly teacher = unhealthy student (see it all around the globe its real)

unheathly parent = unheathlly child (this too is very real)

now if you want to put blinders on and think your child is better off being taught by technology vs a human being that's ok too and its even ok to believe your child is more intelligent because of the technology he plays with (all good)

remember smarter doesn't always mean how many words you can speak or how many monkey's you can count at the zoo smile Education is defined as drawing out of the student his or her potential instead teachers are focused more on filling the students mind with useless knowledges and incorrect historical events.

a teacher is just as accountable for influencing a child then a parent is, perhaps more so in some instances where the teacher seems more of the child then the parent does. Most teachers deny that they are not responsible for the child, thats the parents job well thats one way to look at it of course.

re: disservice to kids by not exposing them to technology, I disagree and have evidence that proves the point just find..

technology is easy for both teachers and parents to accept, takes away the responsibility on their end, i'm not saying technology is bad, only that it will never replace a human being and it will never replace the responsibilty a teacher and parent have towards guiding their children. Some may disagree, of course and its ok to see it from any view as long as its the correct one (its not multiple choice) smile

teachers in todays schools don't teach they rely on books, internet, technology to cram uselesss knowledge into the minds of children. Strong view ? well i could take 10,000 schools in america and show you what i'm talking about smile

it was not my intention to pull anyones feathers onlly to bring awareness to a very real thing that is happening in the schools and on the web. I've always found interesting in alot of children who end up criminials, the parents always said as they were growing up, my child is the smartest and he's learning so much, he's a great kid, always does good in school, etc doing good how ? I would ask. Can technology teach a child to be more respectful ? the answer of course is no.

as for the moodle thong well i was kidding and no i haven't bought one yet, i did see one at whitehouse.org that had a jesus get saved thong lol.
In reply to warmac -

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
You're being taught right now by technology, but that doesn't mean people are not involved (real people are trying to talk with you).  Good teaching needs teachers, online or not, and this point of view is fundamental to what Moodle is about.
In reply to warmac -

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by N Hansen -
Yep, a troll if I say. Chardelle and I noticed this one wandering about in the Business Uses course a couple weeks ago. Just on a wild guess, I'd say we have a troll who was unwillingly booted from their graduate program in education or something, and is now out to express their biterness over the whole experience. 
In reply to warmac -

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by Ralph Blakeslee -

warmac

I deliberated as to whether I should post a response to comments in this thread. Others have eloquently responded and I dont want to start a dog pile (thanks Bugs Bunny and Warner Brothers) which will serve to do nothing but to take up bandwidth. I often believe we legitimize such rants when we respond to them. On the other hand, I am trying to be more assertive.

I always find it fascinating when some cries you take my word out of context, especially when the clear intent of those words were to provoke a reaction. Clearly warmac, if you are still bothering to hang around, your words were meant to provoke a reaction.

Another interesting observation: requiring us to read between the lines. Why do we have to guess your intent, meaning or purpose? Are you communicating to us in code? Or perhaps you wish to purposefully confuse the real reason you write? That way when someone calls you on your intent you can claim they are selecting your parts of your text and twisting it out of context.

You certainly have the right to express alarm at the rising obesity rates of Americas children, or that fact that many areas of Americas educational system are broken, or how technology can widen the gap between the haves and have nots or how technology can contribute to personal isolation. These are real problems that need to be addressed. But you should do so in a more productive manner, utilizing proper sentence structure.thoughtful

Ralph

PS Dont bother to respond warmac. I posted this for myself and to support the Moodle community. I do not always agree with everything that is posted here, but I have never felt the need to be nasty.

In reply to Ralph Blakeslee

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by Darren Smith -
Again I logged on to respond to Womac's post and again somebody has done a far better job than I ever would have smile

Ralph, your response is sharply accurate. You (as I do) share some of the concerns Womac has expressed and have managed to articulate them in an eloquent and thoughtful manner. As a result this helps move the debate forward rather than just pointing the finger and running away.

Womac: If you are reading this and feel you haven't yet acquired the language skills demonstrated by that of Drew and Ralph then can I suggest you examine the technique of drafting / redrafting? Perhaps you could even get somebody to proof read your work first? I'm not having a go - just want to point out that if you wish to express your feelings about issues which may be contentious then it would be to your advantage if people could actually follow what you are saying smile

Did you see that? You may have learned something through technology wink. The best bit about it is it was free of charge big grin

In reply to warmac -

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by Drew Buddie -

Sheesh I cant resist a TROLL, can I?

as expected you took my word tid bits and blew them way out of context dont think I did - as is evident from the responses from others below. And you simply cannot say what you said previously and then say you werent being serious. You cannot make a credible argument by 'cutting and running' like that!


the post was not directed to you specifically and if you read you would have knowned [sic] that so don't get bent out of shape again cant agree and I was not being defensive FOR ME, I was defensive for all of the teachers whom you slighted within your post.


again if you read the post and inbetween the lines you'll know that alot of what i had stated was FACT Not sure where your facts come from though wheres your evidence for what you said? A good argument should not require me to 'read between the lines'.

you can deny it as most teachers, parents do but you are only fooling yourself if you believe that all teachers, parents, education, technology is perfect and we live in perfect world where there's no fault geeze man wake up Now whos taking things out of context. Where did I say that all of what you describe is perfect? I think you are putting words in my mouth there. What I did say was that YOUR diatribe was absolutely without foundation because you did not back it up with any form of factual evidence WHATSOEVER thereby making it your OPINION. Which is not the same thing as a FACT last time I looked in the dictionary.


unheathly [sic] teacher = unhealthy student (see it all around the globe its real) unheathly [sic] parent = unheathlly [sic] child (this too is very real) Now even if that happened to be true, what the blazes has that got to do with Moodle then? If you were not implying that teachers encouraging the use of ICT with children were in this unhealthy category, then just what WERE YOU SAYING? Je ne comprends.


now if you want to put blinders on and think your child is better off being taught by technology vs a human being that's ok too and its even ok to believe your child is more intelligent because of the technology he plays with (all good) you miss the point. My son is not being taught by technology and I certainly did not say he was, or that the kids I teach are.  He is using technology to have learning experiences which he then uses books and other means to find out more about. My son has learned more than I ever did at the age he is, about History, about collaboration with others, about Economy. Not because he was taught by technology, but because the opportunities he now has, enables him to experience scenarios and decision making etc. that I could never have dreamt of 30 years ago! A good teacher or parent (and I humbly profess I have a good stab at both of those categories!) will then know what to do to help a child who wants to know more once they have been stimulated by their experience. No different to reading a text book, but far far more engaging. I really suggest you read the work of Marc Prensky he describes todays generation of children as being twitchspeed whereby they live life at 100mph and schools give them the equivalent of depressants when schools teach them. Largely cos the curriculum dictates it to be so.


remember smarter doesn't always mean how many words you can speak or how many monkey's you can count at the zoo Education is defined as drawing out of the student his or her potential instead teachers are focused more on filling the students mind with useless knowledges and incorrect historical events. your point is? What useless knowledge do you refer to here? Sounds to me like you have a chip on your shoulder about your OWN educational experiences.


teachers in todays schools don't teach they rely on books, internet, technology to cram uselesss knowledge into the minds of children. Strong view ? well i could take 10,000 schools in america and show you what i'm talking about fine but then dont tar us all with the same brush you will not find that attitude in MY classroom, or I would guess, many people youll come across in this Forum.


it was not my intention to pull anyones feathers only [sic] to bring awareness to a very real thing that is happening in the schools and on the web. I've always found interesting in alot of children who end up criminials [sic], the parents always said as they were growing up, my child is the smartest and he's learning so much, he's a great kid, always does good in school, etc doing good how ? I would ask. Can technology teach a child to be more respectful ? the answer of course is no. but youve irked me with saying what you did. And as my post title said. I could not let it pass. I am too passionate that what you said is so so wrong. Because it is.

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by N Hansen -
Did I miss something? Where did Warmac say that his first language wasn't English?
In reply to N Hansen

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by Dale Jones -
She didn't. Maybe I sliced my effort at thinly-veiled sarcasm too thinly. Sorry.
In reply to Dale Jones

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by N Hansen -
How do you know Warmac is a she?
In reply to N Hansen

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by Dale Jones -
I don't.  Earlier you referred to Warmac in the male gender.  As I've made too many assumptions already (as you pointed out) I thought I'd better redress the implied gender imbalance. wink

Best wishes
Dale
In reply to warmac -

Re: You say tomatoes - can't let that pass

by Art Lader -
Well, okay, warmac, you have started an interesting discussion and I thank you for that. But what exactly are you proposing? Do you see no role in the schools and universities of the world for instructional technology? Can instructional technology not be used well?

BTW, you seem to have pretty strong feelings about this subject. Is this based on some negative experience you or your children have had? (Please forgive me if the question is too personal.)

Thank you for your reply.

Regards,
Art
In reply to warmac -

Re: You say tomatoes

by Art Lader -

> Cult-like?

Well, even an obvious troll gets to have an opinion. I guess.

I prefer to think of this as the community of educators that I wished for for twenty-five years.

Sorry that you aren't happy here...

-- Art

In reply to warmac -

Re: You say tomatoes

by Dale Jones -
...and the best Internet lesson I ever learned/taught? How to assess information objectively. And to ignore it if it seems false/ludicrous/based on a false premise. Nevertheless, I think someone has something to learn here...

I've pondered this one for a few hours. Thanks for the post, warmac. I won't criticise your grammar or your use of language since I am impressed that you espress yourself so well in what is obviously not your mother tongue, and I thank you for writing in English that I can decipher, since if you'd written it in any other language (even Welsh) I'd be stumped. However, if I understand your message, you propose to disadvantage those who are prepared to embrace available learning tools at an early age (don't give 'em books too early! Ye'll addle their minds) and those who are in isolated social situations (think "rural" - that's where I'm coming from) so that they are unable to access the context of a wider world; they believe that the only influences on them are those from their immediate acquaintance. Technology defies rurality (my immediate concern), it can give experiences that create global citizens.

If I can quote a personal example, my 3 year old has been following the progress of the space shuttle astronauts ("I hope they get back safely Daddy"), the Russian submarine crew trapped off the Kamchatka peninsula (he knows about the concept of submarines through our playing Silent Hunter and Sub Command) - "How long will their air last Daddy? Why can't they swim out?". Without the use of the technology at our disposal, he'd be unaware and uninterested in these (and other) things. He's learning about so many things on so many levels, it astounds me. And he still comes back with more questions, in greater intensity and depth as the days go by. (Usually the question is "Why?" but hey, he's 3).

Right now, I'm proud of his interest in global events, his developing concern for others, his interest in my reading RSS feeds to him at bedtime and the fact that the three most important things in his life are still his two teddy bears and his little sister. Oh yes, and that Mummy reads a proper story to him after I've finished (usually something about a tank engine or a scruffy giant - the reluctance of the community to accept said scruffy giant is beginning to concern him, although he reconciles it with the premise that the giant is very kind and is unlikely to be anything other than scruffy and kind and it doesn't matter that he's scruffy. Dat's ma boy.).

Unhealthy teacher? To me, that's the one who teaches from their own lecture notes from 20 years ago. The one who can't embrace new technology, new pedagogies, new opportunities to improve the chances of learners in a contemporary situation. The kind of teacher who believes that the way they were taught will always be the only way to learn; "it did alright for me, didn't it?". The ones with an attitude to learning that will never change, will never evolve as their career develops, and they telegraph to the learners under their charge that there Is Only One Way.

So - yeah, you're right; unhealthy teacher = unhealthy learners. I'm thinking "mindset" here. "Inability to adopt changing circumstances". Mmm - that's unhealthy.

Moodle users (at least, the ones I've come across) DO believe that the message is greater than the tool - it's just that this tool is the best thing they've come across to help deliver the message. Without the "teacher-on-the-ground" though, it's so much harder to get the message across to inspire young people to develop an enthusiasm for learning; successful teaching involves so much seat-of-the-pants, reacting-to-situations stuff and the person best placed to react to learners' immediate needs is the teacher in the classroom. I wouldn't want young people to learn through only an online environment, but the experiences they can witness via a global network are so much richer than those close to home that I would certainly want (demand?) online resources to form part of a blended learning environment. You're right - Moodle is not what it's all about; learning is what it's all about. BUT* Intelligent and considered use of Moodle helps focus on the learning resources and the learning objectives that they are scaffolding rather than on the environment they are delivered in. And that's just considering the instructional aspects. When you get into the constructional aspects of Moodle eg forums, dialogues, journals - you're into a new dimension of learning to learn. Peer assessment - I've said it elsewhere, the greatest measurable progress I've seen is through using a Workshop module for learners to define their learning. That wouldn't be possible without the technology - the tools. For whatever reason (I tend to think it's due to the special community that exists in using and developing Moodle) those tools don't necessarily exists outside Moodle, which is why I find Moodle so exciting as a tool for learning.

I just loved this one -
"There's a reason why kids are becoming exccessively overweight, bad eyesight, slower learning ability, etc all due to web and technology not to mention not-so-inspiring teacher role-models in the class room."
Not where I'm from pardner. The web is giving young learners new horizons, new vistas, greater expectation of what they are able to achieve. They are using technology to measure their fitness, to develop fitness plans, to learn about diet and the negative effects of drugs that they may never come across. Through simulation and RPGs the technology is enabling them to make decisions
that they are unlikely ever to have to make in real life, but which people in other situations DO have to make on a daily basis. These pupils are becoming more rounded citizens due to their being forced to think about unfamiliar situations, placed there by technological means. Technolgy isn't bad, the means to which it is put can be bad. (Hey kids, you can sit here and play Horace goes Skiing, or we can go out and play in the snow). Remember, their unhealthy parents are immigrants into the digital scene (thanks, Marc Prensky) who never had access to the rich resources that the online generation now has, so the new generation needs training in the best ways to make use of the information at their disposal. "Unhealthy parents-unhealthy children"; careful now - that's a bit of a sweeping statement.

Sorry, warmac. I tried for hours to sympathise with your point of view. Could be a troll, could be a windup. But you really ought to hear the Way It Is. Oh yeah, and the land you're selling on the moon - what's the view like from there? Is it dark?


*sorry folks, went a bit WP here.
In reply to Dale Jones

Re: You say tomatoes

by Art Lader -
> *sorry folks, went a bit WP here.

Haha! I love it when WP does this.

-- Art
In reply to Art Lader

Re: You say tomatoes

by Dale Jones -
Me too, usually.  Sometimes it drives me nuts.  But Art, surely you're infringinging WP's copyright?  big grin
In reply to Dale Jones

Re: You say tomatoes

by Art Lader -
> But Art, surely you're infringinging WP's copyright?

LOL. smile

-- Art
In reply to warmac -

Potatoes & Pyjamas. (learning?)

by Giulio Maistrelli -
Just a few lines, to say that I enjoyed a lot the thread. Not really for the "dogpile" (although I have found the original post by warmac irritating myself), but for the fact that - at least to my eyes - it genereated a lot of exchange of knowledge. More precisely, I would say that (at least from my point of view) it allowed much "tacit knowledge" to emerge...

Very inspiring! Thanks to all!

Mac.
In reply to Giulio Maistrelli

Re: Potatoes & Pyjamas. (learning?)

by Art Lader -

> tacit knowledge

Nice phrase.

I think I have learned something about the meaning of the term connected learning in this thread. I think I am  starting to get it.

-- Art

In reply to Jason Hando

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Ulrike Montgomery -

Great idea to have Moodle affiliate schools worldwide to share ideas, resources etc. Just imagine: teachers from all over the world are like one team. We'd like to be part of it. I hope we can discuss ideas in Oxford.smile

Ulrike

In reply to Ulrike Montgomery

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Darren Smith -
I like the umbrealla idea.

Someone was saying to me via moodle messaging last night there was a demand for a local Moodle User Group where they are. It would be nice to see, IMHO, local authority / county user groups which would then 'fall' under a national group which would then fall under an international umbrella (here?). Any collaboration would be filtered up to as high as it needed to.

The world could be full of MUGS big grin
In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Miles Berry -
Having been away for a few days, just a few thoughts on this subthread
  • One of the tremedous strengths of Moodle is its ability to facilitate learning in any phase of education - right from infants, through undergraduate education to postgrads, corporate training and life-long learning.
  • Because of this, each phase can benefit from the modules and activities developed in other phases (eg Gustav's RQP for STACK etc), and moreover I believe that this can go beyond the merely technical to include recognition of the other approaches to education - how many of us here had heard of social constructionism before we met Moodle?
  • Furthermore, I think we've all benefitted from the international flavour of the Moodle community, for reasons as above, plus that extra global perspective - if Moodle has been developed within the UK Schools sector then it would be a far more limited product, caught up with Curriculum Online Metadata and the 'personalized learning' agenda. I also value the sense that we can contribute something back to a worldwide community, be it code, bug reports, documentation or support.
  • Participation in this wonderfully supportive, international community has been one of the best bits of the whole Moodle experience, and it will be difficult to replicate this in a narrower group.
  • One of the other brilliant things about Moodle has been the scalability from the ground up - individual teachers and schools can set up their own Moodles, at essentially zero cost, and I would see that as providing a far more authentic, grounded source for moodle course materials than the central repository (BTW, thanks Darren for making your ICT stuff available), as well as encouraging the social construction of the learning materials themselves.
  • I suspect local SMUGs and some form of national Moodle representations are going to be inevitable, but I for one would rather see the growth of Moodle.org, perhaps if need be with additional courses for countries and phases, rather than lots of other exclusive Moodle ghettos.
  • I can see the need for semi-official points of contact between local or national government (eg BECTA) and Moodle, but our team collaboration for the BETT award submission was managed without any of this in place, and is proof that there are other ways of doing things than the usual models with which the likes of BECTA interface. I found it uncomfortable trying to make Moodle's round peg fit into the particular square shaped holes that BECTA provided, and setting up a moodle.uk organization for interfacing with govt. and LEAs feels a little like that.
  • I'd like to see a far bigger open source prescence at the BETT show, and a moodle stand would be well worth having, as would a more general open source software stand. In terms of prescence, there's no way we can compete with the likes of Pearson and RM, but I'm not sure that we should be trying to - the open and collaborative nature of the product, as well as the international and cross-phase nature of this community are both points on which none of the commercial products can compete, and I believe it is those that should be emphasized.
I'd be interested to hear Martin's views on all this, given his relative reticence about even the Moodle in K-12 Schools forum.

In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Show

by Ian Usher -

I think if we can get a stand - wherever it is - then having it at BETT would be very productive and worthwhile. It would be very very simple - nothing to set up other than a PC and projector - the impression I get is that with a little guerilla advertising around the halls on the days we'd be pleasantly surprised by the interest. I'm not sure about a 'generic' OSS stand as it might get quite confusing... there will be other OSS people there as well, and we wouldn't  want to tread on their open toes...

For what it's worth, my first thought is... flyers with

Moodle

Bring this flyer to stand A123 (or wherever) and your school can have a free online learning environment for as long as it wants.

Read that again, then come to stand A123...

on them - but I'm sure there is much more potential than that!

(sorry for the cr@p colours, this is being done in a hurry!)

In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Show

by Darren Smith -
Very interesting.

Some more things you/we could do

* Give away moodle CDs

If would not take much to have a multimedia boot where the noodler (new moodler wink) can pick between the desktop moodle install or a folder which would open mysql, apache, php and moodle zips / tars.

I'm sure we could have a whip round to cover the small cost and somebody out there must have a printer which will do CDs

* Put some (such as my free ICT) courses on the CD

Ever opened a present at christmas to find an empty box sad

* Everyone on the stand wears a moodle t-shirt wink

I like the mosaic M. Perhaps we could get a BETT logo in there wink

* Have some kids there to talk about how moodle has helped there education

Dunno if this is feasible - I have only been to bett once years ago.




So, what so we have to do to get a stand and what are the costs involved.
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Show

by Miles Berry -
Have a glance at http://www.myworldofexpo.com/bettshow2005/show_link22.asp
Stands are, wait for it, £345 + VAT (17.5% in the UK), per square metre.
I think we'd need to get some of the moodle.com partners on board wink
In reply to Miles Berry

Re: BETT Show

by Ian Usher -

someone want to enquire about nonprofit / OSS rates and if they exist?

In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Show pricing and availability

by Ian Usher -

[answers his own question - i.e. gets off his own a$$]

Have just spoken with Karla Kempson - the EMAP Education contact given on the page Miles linked to above. She said there's no rate for non-profits or OSS-type organisations or groups of individuals - the only discount is through becoming a member of BESA, so no go there then!

She said that the smallest stands they current have are 1.5m x 2m - which works out as  £1035 plus VAT = £1216.13. Hmmm. She is sending me the latest information for prospective exhibitors by email, I'll post it here if I can...

I was going to pursue the encourage diversity and innovation - give a concessionary rate for nonprofit or OSS line but decided that at this point on a Friday it wasn't a good idea - or maybe it was!

In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Show

by Val Brooks -
I think this is a great idea and perhaps we could have volunteers to do a stint on it. My only worry is the cost - these 'stands' are not cheap and by now, many of the 'best' places will have been snapped up but that's not to say we shouldn't do it of-course. The cost is £345 +VAT per sq metre and I think a fairly small stand would be 6 square metres. Have a look at http://www.bettshow.co.uk/ and then click the tab for exhibitors.
That price is probably just for the space - no equipment or even electrical sockets possibly ( having an internet connection will be extra cost too) so we have to beware of climbing costs. However, I'm sure we could get together some stands etc - I have some available here which I could bring down if necessary.

In reply to Val Brooks

Re: BETT Show

by Ian Usher -

I don't think 'position' in the halls is as important as 'awareness' that you are actually there... the MM stand I've been on for the last couple of years has been in a 'rubbish' position (for them anyway) but it benefited by being a little out of the way - more people could crowd around and it was in a less noisy area (no Dell robots, Apple and MS überpresentations to distract etc. People who know what they're looking for do read their programmes and layout maps closely and often come with a tick list of "things I must see today"... we need to get on that list. Naace and other organisations would be useful toward that end imho.

If we can generate enough interest (and I have more than a few slightly naughty but nice ideas about publicity stunts involving other vendors, but more later (and not here!)) then I think we will have more than enough to cope with... esp if the BETT Awards thing comes even close.

A few other things:

  • from experience, if children are coming then their forms need to be filled in a long time in advance, as the irony is that kids aren't allowed in without express permission of the organise (please don't discuss that here, it could take foreverwink)
  • the cost of internet access is obscene - at least four or five figures for something decent, so I would assume that you won't have it.
  • Knoppix-type CDs are a good idea, but we'd need to check liabilities etc. (I know they're linux but (if you seen the West Wing, Post Hoc Ergo Procter Hoc could apply if we give people a CD that changes the way their computer works). Even better would be "it just works" CDs for Mac/Win/Linux/etc.
  • and of course I'd volunteer as much time as I could spare... approve
In reply to Val Brooks

Re: BETT Show

by Val Brooks -
And another thought - Maybe someone could present a seminar at BETT? I don't know how they choose their speakers - does anyone know? I have just sent an email to them to ask just that question.
In reply to Val Brooks

Re: BETT Show

by Ian Usher -
most seminars (at BETT and other events) are didactic sage on the stage or chalk and talk ones - let's do something which, although maybe not 100% socially constructivist, gives an idea of the way Moodle can work...? cool
In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Show

by Darren Smith -
It's a pity about internet costs as you could video conference with other moodlers all over the world sad
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Show - internet access

by Ian Usher -

...on the MM stand they were (I feel I'm right on this) quoted five figures for access for the show surprise - but I can double check with Pauline... I was doing Breeze (videoconferencing? we'll be needing internet access then...smile), we even tried GPRS through a phone at some point. Only option is to find some Moodle friendly people close to where we are, use their wireless (everything was encrypted this year but the year before it was FreeWireless City, Arizona which was good news).

In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Show - internet access

by Drew Buddie -
TEEM had Internet access at their stand.  I'll ask how much it cost.
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Show - internet access

by Drew Buddie -
I spoke to someone at TEEM (Michelle) who has given me some ideas - she said that their floor space is paid for my Emap and it would seem that on that basis they could not allow us a corner, but that we might be able to persuade someone else to do so. So I'm gonna follow up with Mirandanet next Monday.  In the meantime I am going to try to round up some items for a Raffle or Auction (again if Sean allows us to do so) or via Ebay if it comes to that.  She said the Internet access was very very expensive.
In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Show - internet access

by Drew Buddie -
Another thought occured to me - if we could bring some pupils each day, perhaps each of our schools (we'd only need 4, 1 per day) might be happy to pay knowing that the best ambassadors possible ie. their students, were going to have a platform at BETT.  Just a thought.
In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Show - internet access

by Ian Usher -
...almost certainly - that's always happened with schools whose pupils I (or my colleagues) have taken to BETT - just ensure that a member of staff equipped with digital camera (still or video) goes with them!
Good publicity for the school, staff... nearly always 'works'...
In reply to Darren Smith

Re: BETT Show

by Drew Buddie -

What about if I ask the good people at TEEM as they get a great stand and their place is paid for by someone like Emap, if I remember correctly?  Or one other possibility is to see if we could piggyback with the Mirandanet stand as they had a large area last year and they may like the added interest that a MOODLE section would generate. 

Given I'm a Scholar of Mirandanet, this could be a possibility (which I'll investigate) and the other thing is that their stand is large and not 'tucked away' - it is in a corner on one of the upper balconies, as is TEEM's.  I'll see what I can find out and report back. 

That is unless anyone feels it would need to be a stand in its own right.  But at least I could see if they could get us a favourable rate.

In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Show - How to Pay?

by Drew Buddie -

I would be interested in doing some sort of sponsored event in the coming term to raise monies for at least one square metre. 

Or perhaps my school might be prepared to pay for same in return for having their flyers distributed at the stand (instead of seeking sponsorship by a company). 

Also, if SMUG (or whatever) was set up, perhaps a nominal subscription fee could be utilised in this way.  Membership of NAACE costs me £80 a year and one could argue that membership of a group based around the use of Moodle could be infinitely more useful to me smile

Another idea would be to set up a group (now don't laugh please) sale on Ebay - I've made £500 selling old books etc in the past month alone! 

I have a few ideas for the MoodleMoot if Sean'd allow us.  An auction or raffle , in the evening, the proceeds of which could be set aside for the BETT show.  I know its short notice but I'm sure I could get some items that could be used to this end.

Anyway, I am determined, by hook or by crook, that a personal goal of mine will be to raise enough money for at least one square metre.  Anyone care to join me?

In reply to Drew Buddie

Re: BETT Show - How to Pay?

by Ian Usher -

I'm in... £50 cash plus anything else I can do that's legal, ethical and useful.

Might just be fifty quid then... wide eyes

In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Show - How to Pay?

by Darren Smith -
Sounds good to me. I have already emailed about one contact I have which may be an avenue for raising some funds - i will think of more. I will check with the domestic boss tonight how much i am allowed to put in wink

Does anyone know of a good php graph thing that could monitor the target? I'm thinking of an online blue peter thing IYSWIM. Plenty of room on my site but I am not be the best when it comes to keeping track of things smile
In reply to Val Brooks

Re: BETT Show

by Drew Buddie -

I have been interested in this idea and have tentatively followed this up via my membership of NAACE.  I'll keep you posted if I hear anything but I'd be DEAD keen to do a presentation on MOODLE.

In reply to Ian Usher

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Marcus Green -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
I remember last year someone saying that a stand cost about £1,000 and (naturally) it was decided that it was too much. Whats the chance of getting enough people/organisations to cough up enough to make that a possibility?

All pumped for Moodlemoot....

Ahh, just saw Ians post, I'd be good for £50 if the rest could be raised.
In reply to Marcus Green

Re: BETT Awards and then some

by Drew Buddie -
You are no. 2 on our list of TOP PEOPLE Marcus - well done you STAR approve watch this space for some exciting developments in the next few days.  Darren's been very busy...