Of course it's balderdash! The problem is, (often) men's egos usually won't let them admit to not knowing something computery, whereas because generations of women were submissive and afraid to demonstrate their knowledge, nowadays still, they will (often) put themselves down to their own detriment.
What you found on the net, I wrote - and I have certainly also said so in presentations. It has been my experience of training Moodlers: if anyone is going to come in claiming they are IT "Special needs" it's the women, and if anyone is going to come in claiming they "know a fair bit about Moodle" (only to prove themselves dangerously lacking, later) it is the men.
Whatever would Ada Lovelace think?
Oh my, as you know Mary, I am relatively new to Moodle, but I can find my way around a LMs like a shit-house rat! And some!
Oh dear-what a selling point for Moodle when you say:
It has been my experience of training Moodlers: if anyone is going to come in claiming they are IT "Special needs" it's the women, and if anyone is going to come in claiming they "know a fair bit about Moodle" (only to prove themselves dangerously lacking, later) it is the men.
Some thoughts-with the caveat -you may think I am wrong-fair enough.
Is it not more constructive to use positive language about any gender's needs when they are learning-trying to engage with Moodle/ICT in the public domain? Or at least provide a measured response?
1. In spreading negative language about women-over the net and during presentations this does not, as far as I can understand validate the next point,
2. does not qualify you to do the same thing about men-here-based on your experience -fair enough but that is not everyone's way of seeing Moodle/Men and quite frankly-I find it all a bit off-putting, to be honest.
The reason these two items are tricky for me to grasp and therefore agree with, is because I am missing the point as to why? Is such language used to describe one's experiences in order to highlight a special needs deficit among Moodlers who are women, and quid pro quo....Moodlers who are men having ego issues? So, just to highlight those points based on your experiences Mary-is the purpose-that is it-right?
I mean don't women have ego issues Mary? Or, is it that you identify these things in your practice in order to address such issues-provide a plan to alleviate a and b:
a)women claiming they are IT "Special needs"
b) and 'the' men who (as you state) claim to "know a fair bit about Moodle" (only to prove themselves dangerously lacking, later).
If it is about alleviating a problem identified in your practice- I am fascinated to know how you work with such issues to improve the situation you identify-really I am.
Now, while it is challenging to measure a critical/negative attitude, given the self-serving bias that makes people want to see themselves as good and upstanding, research surrounding the use of negative language to describe others' abilities can stem from feeling inadequate in an area of life they value highly (Meyers, 2013). Meyers spent years in clinical practice collecting case-studies about how females represent others in their public speeches/ public announcements. And, while things are looking good for Hillary C in 2016....Meyers concluded that in the main, if women feel that they must work hard to secure whatever social power they can then this can sometimes take forms of exclusionary practices with other women, in the first instance. The solution as Hillary C marks down as page 1 in her world is to support all women and men in their endeavours via communication, language, thought and empathy. I think Ada Lovelace-a forward thinking woman of her time, like Hillary C and others....might agree today if she were alive-certainly with an identification of a humanist way of seeing.
Just some thoughts from a relatively new moodler J
I'm not *entirely* sure I understand this conversation, except that it appears I once made some comments from my own experience about how some (not all)women will sometimes approach training, as opposed to how some (not all) men sometimes approach it, and now I think perhaps I should just keep my experiences to myself. (Those words came from here by the way)
Dawn; I think you would be a good advocate in the ongoing battle to get more girls into STEM subjects and programming -tomorrow's future female Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg
he he....we are joking around now-right Great stuff.........I dont mind being the butt of a joke...honestly-am cool with it-this thread has been insightful for me. And funny-coz we are joking now right....yep Mary-when you say 'not all' ahhh I see
silly me I am not getting the right end of stick sometimes these days Doh!
Facebook/Gates etc .....that is a joke too right? So tis funny too..........ha ha this is now a laugh a minute for me ta!
Still laughing.....you want to watch those warnings VR one might bite you on the bum one day.....in the form of a Zombie bite or a pixie-genie type bite......are we still laughing.....I am!
peace!
D
Hi everyone,
I think the STEM myth, i.e. that the US needs more STEM graduates*, is going to take a while to die out. It looks more like the IT giants would like to push American IT workers' wages down by importing more cheap, foreign, compliant labour.
Also, teaching ALL 7 year-olds to code, even if it's in highly simplified languages like Logo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_%28programming_language%29), which was tried in the 70's and 80's, isn't a good idea since kiddies of that age haven't usually developed the prerequisite kinds of abstract thinking skills; those usually emerge later at 10+ years old. The people proposing the current programmes, i.e. silicon valley entrepreneurs and billionaires who've probably never spent any time working with K-12 learners, have no idea what they're talking about. I suspect they assume that everyone, including children, thinks like them but just aren't as "smart."
The issue of getting more women to work in IT is a complex one. Why would any woman want to subject herself to the kinds of prejudice and abuse directed at women that appear to be systemic in the IT industry? I'm sure that if we can make it an acceptable, equitable place to work in for the brave, tolerant women who are already there, more would be interested in pursuing that career path.
*See: CBS: Census Data Show U.S. Doesn't Have Shortage of STEM Workers
Hello Matt,
an interesting take on things there, particularly this:
The issue of getting more women to work in IT is a complex one. Why would any woman want to subject herself to the kinds of prejudice and abuse directed at women that appear to be systemic in the IT industry? I'm sure that if we can make it an acceptable, equitable place to work in for the brave, tolerant women who are already there, more would be interested in pursuing that career path.
But, hey come on...one cannot blame the IT industry per se.....I mean Mary Shelley never blamed the IT industry for her mistaken outcomes....in the Monster she created-right.
No, it is the IT company...associated culture that is allowed to grow prejudice and what not in its employees.....and I have and will continue to turn to Martin about the mess of this thread-and associated bullshit....he should by now know exactly how I feel about all this, tis not the first time over 18 months that I have witnessed such a mess.
Dawn
Hello Visvanath,
you intrigue me-as ever, and send on my best regards to your wife.
Well, am throwing this into the mix.....
a bit of irony-shall we say
hope it doesn't get mod-ed for not being moodle related ....but we could justify it as bigger picture viewing maybe
D
Computing, ICT and Moodle should not be about gender. It's all about ability. Unfortunately society seems to stereotype career roles still, just look at the hassle Marvel has had over a recent Barbie book. There are some good role models for all to follow, like Grace Murray Hopper.
I do claim to know a bit about Moodle. But that's only because I have put in the time and effort to create plugins and contribute. Not because of my gender.
So in everything you do, include everybody and close the door on purpose to no-one.
Perhaps is it time for '/lib/womenslib.php' to be removed?
$ apropos women
women: nothing appropriate. You have to start somewhere, so start with Moodle, then move on.