Ukraine crisis - a dark topic to socialize, I know

Ukraine crisis - a dark topic to socialize, I know

by Oleg Sychev -
Number of replies: 12
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I am sorry to bring such topics as war and politics down here, but I'm sort of needing to speak with people from other countries on this topic. It could also be quite informative to you.

I live in Russia, but near Eastern Ukraine and know a number of people from it (that's my birthplace after all), even relatives on both side of front lines (been peaceful people). Some of them now live under everyday shelling, some other are refugees (including a fellow Moodle teacher from Lughansk university and some students I now teaching because their university is under artillery fire). And that in a perfectly peaceful region not knowing war since WW2.

I could read Russian, Ukrainian and English language so I could read reports from both side of confilct and a western press too. So been interested (not every year you can look at the revolution and civil war development not from press or biased history lessons or memoirs - but from raw reports from the ground) I eventually get a lot of facts about how it started and what's going on.

I also read from time to time sites of USA and UK journals (sorry, I coudn't read in French or Germany, nothing personal), so I know toa degree what was reported there and what was omitted. One thing I don't have extensive knowledge of is famous "Putin propaganda" - been apolitical person I don't look/read our own media on a regular basis. My knowledge come from sources on both side of the frontier in Eastern Ukrain, not from the media.

Now all this lead to some thinking and conclusions on my part (besides real feeling we are not safe from a war too). Now I need to discuss them with people from other countries, to reach eventual conclusions to myself and to help world know of the plight of these people. It is possible I missed or miscalculated some major information, so I would hear reasons people who do not agree with me - just try make this positive discussion, no holywar. And you could get many useful information too.

There are many topics on the theme (starting from March 2014), each will take some time to write upon, so feel free to ask me about these you want to hear first

  • Crimean peninsula changing hands
  • Odessa Trade Union building fire
  • Mariupol clashes on 9 May
  • How eastern ukrainian rebels come to blows with kiev government forces
  • Malaysian airplane crash
  • position of human rights organisations and mainstream western media and governments (or who is humans and entitled to human rights de facto)
  • ultra-right wing in ukraine policy
  • why russians feel endangered (or, citing usa press  are "paranoid nationalists")
  • fate of russian people in ex-ussr states
  • which side I personally sympathise and why?
  • some other information?

I will make a separate posts for huge events, 

Well, now you could say to me you don't need such dark topics there or whatever. Or talk to me. It is not easy to become accustomed that you country may end up in war and place where you live may be bombed while previously believing you are live in a safe place (hey, less than a year ago there was trolleybus blast near my home on the line I routinely use to get to work, and that not get me think the place is unsafe). A talk with people from countries we can well end up fighting with is especially welcome (without been rude), we may still try to understand each other.
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In reply to Oleg Sychev

Re: Ukraine crisis - a dark topic to socialize, I know

by Guillermo Madero -

Hello Oleg,

I'm not familiar with Ukraine crisis... so many issues with so many countries nowadays... quite sad. So, in the meantime, just to let you know that there are always people around the world that care and, also, to send you my best wishes for the best of outcomes.

Guillermo

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In reply to Guillermo Madero

Re: Ukraine crisis - a dark topic to socialize, I know

by dawn alderson -

Hello Oleg,

Would have been easier to have ignored your post-the messiness of human nature eh.....but that want to ignore your cry for a shared understanding, stems from the way in which the media works in the west...my west.....in that stories get reported based on proximity...so you are right when you say any country could be at war in the future...of course Mr Anan knows the fine detail of all that and struggles to sleep at night.

What I mean by proximity is how close to the west the war-torn country is in terms of geographical position/threat and so on. 

So, consequently I know very little-not enough about your plight and the fight-your people are enveloped within.

I am sorry for my ignorance-but wish you good health and to find some sort of happiness in those who love you.

Dawn      

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In reply to dawn alderson

Re: Ukraine crisis - a dark topic to socialize, I know

by Oleg Sychev -
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Hello, Dawn.

I am afraid Ukraine is closer to the west both by geographical position and the threat. Geographically it have direct borders with several countries from EU - Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania, thought for now fighting is done on the opposite part of Ukraine.  Also, sad crash of MH17 made a number of European and Australian people a victims of conflict.

As by threat, probably any crisis that lead to major generals from armies of two countries with world biggest nuclear potential issuing public statements that their armies should be ready to confront each other in a future - that should be quite near for any counry in the world by threat.

It is not that western press write nothing about the war at all. It is more about what and how it writes, and what and how it write not.

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In reply to Oleg Sychev

Re: Ukraine crisis - a dark topic to socialize, I know

by dawn alderson -

well Guillermo, am smiling here of course at your sheer audacity to question my view in the west LOL!!....as I said...my view....but nevertheless.....you raise some interesting points of which I think you should pass on to a chap known as David Cameron he is around here in the UK somewhere...and I think this point in particular would raise an eyebrow:

It is not that western press write nothing about the war at all. It is more about what and how it writes, and what and how it write not.

He would love to be embroiled with the press for a change!!! Ha ha.........

Seriously,  I hear you Guillermo.

D 

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In reply to dawn alderson

Re: Ukraine crisis - a dark topic to socialize, I know

by Guillermo Madero -

someone read a little bit too fast...

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In reply to Guillermo Madero

Re: Ukraine crisis - a dark topic to socialize, I know

by Mary Cooch -
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Quoting Oleg "It is not that western press write nothing about the war at all. It is more about what and how it writes, and what and how it write not."

Very true. There are those who hail the western press as open, impartial, balanced, but it's questionable. If you compare and contrast how events are reported on the BBC with, say, RT (Russia Today) and Al Jazeera TV -both of which we can get on our digital TV - you see the same events reported completely differently. Who's to say which is the accurate reporting? Even within my own country ( I mean  the UK) the BBC will choose to ignore events which the government doesn't want to be publicised - demonstrations of thousands of people going on in central London for example, which you only find out about if you are on Twitter (or there of course) Added to which the history of today's conflicts go back so many centuries... often with countries in "the West" being the originators of the conflicts. 

Anyway, keep talking to us Oleg smile

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In reply to Mary Cooch

Re: Ukraine crisis - a dark topic to socialize, I know

by Guillermo Madero -

Indeed, very true. Media is like a tailor, using the same cloths but always tailoring it differently.

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In reply to Mary Cooch

Re: Ukraine crisis - a western press approach

by Oleg Sychev -
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Thanks, Mary. 

If we talk of the western press, let take some quick example.

1. Now we sure who did it, now we need a thorought investigation first

Lets look at several tragedies in which many peaceful people die in Ukraine crisis

1.1. Maidan snipers.  Back in the time, when "peaceful demostrators" (with molotv coctails and rocks) protesting "evil tyrant" Yanukovitch for several months, unknown snipers open fire at the crowd killing several dozen of protesters. That enraged protesters and eventually lead to overthrowing Yanukovitch.

Judging by their posts, Western media (who are supposed to be professional and neutral) knowed who sent these snipers almost on the day of shooting - of course it was that evil tyrant Yanukovitch, who else.  No expertise or investigation required.

Official investigation (from the new, revolutionary and democratic government) still don't find perpetrator even now, about 9 months long. One thing we know however. Almost on the first day of the new government, all trees on the street where shooting happened, was cut down. Officialy to make the street look better of course. Some evil conspiracy theorists still think that trees allowed to locate place from which snipers fired.

1.2. Odessa trade union building fire. Now, several months ago another group about 50 undoubtedly peaceful protester died a violent death in Odessa. Now it was "pro-russian" (more correctly anti-maidan) protesters who stood on the square, when a large mob of ukrainian patriots (reportedly peaceful - but for some conicidence with kevlar vests, bats etc) headed on to it. Some people make a fatal mistake to seek refugee from this mob in nearest empty (it was holidays) trade union building. After use of molotov coctails the building sprang to fire resulting (officially) more than 40 deaths and several dozen missing people. Police and fire rescuers appeared about a hour or later after they were needed.

Now for a change western press don't know on the spot who do it. It was all about "we can't be sure, thorought investigation needed" stuff. And it is patriotic authorities of Ukraine to do the investigation. I could say you how it started - arresting all survivors of the fire incriminating them with ... government building seizure. I could also say about several Ukraine parliament memebers and local administration official publicly expressing their approval of patriotic action and joy about it results. The investigation still have no visible results too, and western press isn't too keen to seek guilty. 

Now we could think press is learned their lesson. Lets look.

1.3. MH17 crash. Boeing of Malaysian Airlaines was apparently shot down from the sky and crashed on the territory, controlled by Eastern Ukrainian rebels. The very next day western press bursted with headlines like "Putin's missile killed my son". They almost all know who did the deed without any investigation - rebels, assisted by Putin. I could make detailed post summing up what we really know about it (as about Odessa), but for now we need to know all accusations of rebels was based on them possibly accuring some "Buk" missiles. No one proved exactly they do, but rebels ("terrorists and separatists") was widely blamed. Another fact not getting such publicity is that Ukrainian army certainly have "Buk" missles in area. If (if!) the rebels would have missiles, it would be placed only several kilometers apart from army ones and the airplane was about 10km high in the air. Tell me, how many of you read about rebel "Buk"s that was SUPPOSEDLY there and how many read about army "Buk"s that was CERTAINLY there (even ukrainians don't deny it)? But there is no "we can't be sure, thorought investigation needed" stuff there, most media were quite sure about evildoer on the very next day.

One russian BBC correspondent took quite a time (in war zone!) asking locals (of very densely populated urban zone) did they see Buk (or other earth-sky rocket) start (an easily spotted from several kilometers). No one spotted it. But the video was deleted from BBC site less than a day after publishing. BBC issued a statement - it was not censorship, it was editorial policy - the video wasn't compliant with high standards of BBC. If some better version of this video was re-published, it was in place I never was able to find it.

1.4. To be short - several weeks ago rebels find out several graves on the territory they retake from the Ukrainian army. People were tortured and exectuted. Stage of decomposition suggested they almost certainly were killed during the time army hold the territory. Now guess - is it "we know evildoer, let's blame him!" or "we can't be sure, thorought investigation needed" this time?


I could write about other matters on western press approach too, that was shocking to me, but that post get rather long. So let's me know how you see this one, feel free to ask any questions.

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In reply to Oleg Sychev

Re: Ukraine crisis - a dark topic to socialize, I know

by dawn alderson -

Oleg glad you returned.....now did you laugh!

I did....whahahaha................you see joking around can make you smile-important eh....as Mary recommends.....keep smiling smile

All in good humour Oleg.....my comments stand too.

cheers,

Dawn


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In reply to dawn alderson

Re: Ukraine crisis - a dark topic to socialize, I know

by Oleg Sychev -
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dawn, I'm sorry, I can't find much humor in the topic. This post is about war. About people die or became invalid. 

And some of these people were believing in western values and western press. I took quite a time coaxing my friends to leave their town once it was clear it end up been shelled. That was not easy - and of their main argument was that army supported by the western government and western press woudn't do such barbarious thing as shelling their town with people in it, without providing time and routes to evacuate for civilians.  University teachers, Moodle users - they were educated enought to read all this. I barely managed to achieve my goal - they live just 2 days before fighting about their town started. But they coudn't coax their friends, who remained in the city believing that all will be done in civilised way. Now some of these people are dead.

I've seen a humor in that war too. In many (not all of course) of ukrainian "freedom fighters" and "pro-europe protesters" social groups. Humor about people that died in Odessa trade union fire (May 2). They posted photo of charred bodies and mockingly called it "May's barbeque". Should I find these photos for you? Maybe you can laught on them too?

P.S. Sorry if I'm seem to touchy, but death do require some respect from the living IMO.

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In reply to Guillermo Madero

Re: Ukraine crisis - a dark topic to socialize, I know

by Guillermo Madero -

One can always find good news among the flood of bads... truly amazing:

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