Mike and Jeff,
After playing around with the current gradebook, I find that it is even less suited for our needs than I thought.
I Like the simple view of the grades, but not at all the advanced view. What I would like to be able to do in the simple view of grades is to specify that the total points should be computed as
w1*g1 + w2*g2 + w3*g3 + .... + wn*gn (instead of g1+g2+...+gn)
where g1, g2, ..., gn are all the grades in gradeable activities in the course and w1, w2, ..., wn are arbitrary weights/scaling factors that I can specify item by item. The grade table should show g1, g2, ..., gn as currently together with total points as computed by this scheme. Moreover in the special case when w1=w2=...=w(n-1)=0 and wn=1 (i.e. the weights are all 0 except for one weight which is equal to 1), then gn should be displayed in the column where total points go (and total points should not be displayed at all).
Or am I missing something and this can be done using the current gradebook?
Also I would like to be able to specify a condensed view of grades where only certain designated columns are shown.
Just one clarification: in the case when the weight vector is (0,0,...,0,1), I just want the total points to be hidden from students, not teachers. For teachers, it should always be present and link to a view which allows the teacher to change the weights. (It should look like the curve-to boxes in the Categories view of the gradebook.)
Hi Zbigniew, weighting is done in the advanced view, not in the simple view. That was done so folks used to the old points only gradebook could just keep using it. What don't you like about the advanced view?
I think the change I mentioned previously would give the results you want in the advanced view, showing wieghted total points (gn) rather than total points (in preferences), did you try that?
You can also curve individual items, which acts like a multiplier (eg 100 point item curved to 50).
There is also no hard limit to 100%, you can have as many weighted points in your course as you like, and I suppose the % could be changed to 'pts' or 'calculated points' in the lang file.
IMO, we should change the gradebook so weighted total also links to the activity's grading screen and is calculated as stats (stats being calculated on points when points are hidden is currently quite confusing, IMO).
Also I would like to be able to specify a condensed view of grades where only certain designated columns are shown.
This is all done in advanced view (categories can be hidden and/or items (such as points, weighted points, letter grades, etc.) can be hidden or shown only to teachers. Again, the idea was to keep the basic view simple.
I think the change I mentioned previously would give the results you want in the advanced view, showing wieghted total points (gn) rather than total points (in preferences), did you try that?
You can also curve individual items, which acts like a multiplier (eg 100 point item curved to 50).
There is also no hard limit to 100%, you can have as many weighted points in your course as you like, and I suppose the % could be changed to 'pts' or 'calculated points' in the lang file.
IMO, we should change the gradebook so weighted total also links to the activity's grading screen and is calculated as stats (stats being calculated on points when points are hidden is currently quite confusing, IMO).
Also I would like to be able to specify a condensed view of grades where only certain designated columns are shown.
This is all done in advanced view (categories can be hidden and/or items (such as points, weighted points, letter grades, etc.) can be hidden or shown only to teachers. Again, the idea was to keep the basic view simple.
My basic problem is that the advanced view shows categories as headings instead of the individual activities, which is what I want. Also the scaled stuff is shown as percents, which I don't want.
Do you mind if I add an option to modify the standard view as I propose and then submit it to you for review?
Do you mind if I add an option to modify the standard view as I propose and then submit it to you for review?
How about showing activities under categories in advanced view? IMO it would be very confusing if the activities are shown scaled by category weights but the categories aren't shown somehow.
Of course if you don't want to use categories, it might be nice that if no categories are set-up to just link to a screen showing the activities rather than "Uncategorized". This would let folks use some advanced features without the categories, which would be a nice option.
For the scond option, are you planning to one to show weighted grades as points rather than %? It would be great if in this view the links back to the activities went off the weighted points instead of the points, and the
These would be my preferfence, keep the advanced stuff in advanced view, but add more options in advanced view for the options you propose.
Of course Martin D. will have the final say in any review
.
Of course if you don't want to use categories, it might be nice that if no categories are set-up to just link to a screen showing the activities rather than "Uncategorized". This would let folks use some advanced features without the categories, which would be a nice option.
For the scond option, are you planning to one to show weighted grades as points rather than %? It would be great if in this view the links back to the activities went off the weighted points instead of the points, and the
These would be my preferfence, keep the advanced stuff in advanced view, but add more options in advanced view for the options you propose.
Of course Martin D. will have the final say in any review
Hi Mike,
I don't care whether the view is called simple or advanced. My point was that currently the simple view is closer to what I am looking for than the advanced view. I think the changes you outline above would meet my criteria.
I don't care whether the view is called simple or advanced. My point was that currently the simple view is closer to what I am looking for than the advanced view. I think the changes you outline above would meet my criteria.
Mike,
I sent you my modifications to the gradebook which implement the features I need. It should be in your email (possibly your spam folder).
Zig
I sent you my modifications to the gradebook which implement the features I need. It should be in your email (possibly your spam folder).
Zig
Hi Zbigniew,
Michael forwarded me your email and I think the gradebook already does what your new code does. In the set categories tab the column "curve to" will scale a grade to the new value. The wording and method is slightly different; for instance for an assignment with 100 as a max grade you "scale to" 4/5 whereas in the existing gradebook you would want to "curve to" 80. Originally I had the column "curve to" labeled as "scale grade" with a decimal value ie. .8, but our faculty and Michael thought that this was too confusing so we changed it to "curve to" and with a point value instead. What this effectively does is grade a student out of 80 points rather than 100.
If this is not what your code does then I have no idea what your second screenshot is trying to show since screenshot 1 shows "Homework 1" is worth 10 points scaled to 4/5 and the second screenshot shows "Homework 1" worth 10 points and "Adam Ghatani" has 10 points. I would have expected either (or both) of these to have been 8 in the second screenshot. If instead you want the total points AND the grade to be scaled by 4/5 then the current gradebook does not do this. If this is the case why not use the modules to adjust the point value. I know that the lesson module will appropriately adjust for point value adjustments, and if the other modules don't then you should post bug reports for those modules.
regards,
Jeff
Michael forwarded me your email and I think the gradebook already does what your new code does. In the set categories tab the column "curve to" will scale a grade to the new value. The wording and method is slightly different; for instance for an assignment with 100 as a max grade you "scale to" 4/5 whereas in the existing gradebook you would want to "curve to" 80. Originally I had the column "curve to" labeled as "scale grade" with a decimal value ie. .8, but our faculty and Michael thought that this was too confusing so we changed it to "curve to" and with a point value instead. What this effectively does is grade a student out of 80 points rather than 100.
If this is not what your code does then I have no idea what your second screenshot is trying to show since screenshot 1 shows "Homework 1" is worth 10 points scaled to 4/5 and the second screenshot shows "Homework 1" worth 10 points and "Adam Ghatani" has 10 points. I would have expected either (or both) of these to have been 8 in the second screenshot. If instead you want the total points AND the grade to be scaled by 4/5 then the current gradebook does not do this. If this is the case why not use the modules to adjust the point value. I know that the lesson module will appropriately adjust for point value adjustments, and if the other modules don't then you should post bug reports for those modules.
regards,
Jeff
No, curve-tos are inverse scalings, so curving 100 to 80 corresponds to a scaling factor of 100/80=5/4 not 4/5. Thus, in particular, it is not possible to scale by 0 since that corresponds to curve-to infinity.
"Homework 1" is worth 10 points scaled to 4/5 and the second screenshot shows "Homework 1" worth 10 points and "Adam Ghatani" has 10 points. I would have expected either (or both) of these to have been 8 in the second screenshot.
No, this is precisely what I want. I do not want to show individual grades scaled, just raw. I only want to take the scaling into account when computing the total. Thus for Adam Ghatani the total is computed as:
76 + 10*(4/5) + 21*(4/5) = 100.8 rounded to 101.
"Homework 1" is worth 10 points scaled to 4/5 and the second screenshot shows "Homework 1" worth 10 points and "Adam Ghatani" has 10 points. I would have expected either (or both) of these to have been 8 in the second screenshot.
No, this is precisely what I want. I do not want to show individual grades scaled, just raw. I only want to take the scaling into account when computing the total. Thus for Adam Ghatani the total is computed as:
76 + 10*(4/5) + 21*(4/5) = 100.8 rounded to 101.
Hi Zbigniew,
thanks for the clarification.
Then the last sentence in my original post applies. "If this is the case why not use the modules to adjust the point value. I know that the lesson module will appropriately adjust for point value adjustments..."
Regards,
Jeff
thanks for the clarification.
Then the last sentence in my original post applies. "If this is the case why not use the modules to adjust the point value. I know that the lesson module will appropriately adjust for point value adjustments..."
Regards,
Jeff
Then the last sentence in my original post applies. "If this is the case why not use the modules to adjust the point value.
I know that the lesson module will appropriately adjust for point value
adjustments..."
If the module does the scaling, then the gradebook would show the scaled grade, not the point grade. If the student recieves a 10 on an in-class quiz, and the gradebook shows 8 points, the student will be upset. I don't want to show 10 in one column and 8 in another either. It takes up too much screen space and I find that it confuses our students. I don't want to show students the intermediate steps of the grade calculation, just the final result of the calculation.
If the module does the scaling, then the gradebook would show the scaled grade, not the point grade. If the student recieves a 10 on an in-class quiz, and the gradebook shows 8 points, the student will be upset. I don't want to show 10 in one column and 8 in another either. It takes up too much screen space and I find that it confuses our students. I don't want to show students the intermediate steps of the grade calculation, just the final result of the calculation.
Also, I want to have the option of overriding any inbuilt gradebook grading scheme. With my scheme, I can do this. I compute my totals offline, using any algorithm I like, upload the result as a "total" module, scale everything else to 0 and the uploaded total to 1. Then I want all the raw grades still displayed (not scaled to 0) and the computed total will be equal to the uploaded total.
But from your screenshots
76+10+21=101 rather than 107
I think this is even more confusing to a student. I would be worried that the gradebook was broken if I saw that 76+10+21=101 as your column does say total but is really a scaled grade and implies that it is the sum of the previous entries in the row. The weighting in your system is hidden from students and I think leads to more confusion.
just my opinion of course.
regards,
Jeff
76+10+21=101 rather than 107
I think this is even more confusing to a student. I would be worried that the gradebook was broken if I saw that 76+10+21=101 as your column does say total but is really a scaled grade and implies that it is the sum of the previous entries in the row. The weighting in your system is hidden from students and I think leads to more confusion.
just my opinion of course.
regards,
Jeff
It depends on what you are used to. Our students are used to the system shown in my screenshot 2. And we could change the column header to scaled/weighted total via the language pack mechanism, if that makes you happier. [Also it might be a good idea to have an optional link in the gradebook to a (nongradebook) page explaining how the scaled total is computed.]
Wouldn't that be handled by 100/120? Or did we cap 'curve to'?
No that would penalize the students by grading them as though the assignment was worth 120 points rather than 100 so if a student got all 100 points their percent would be 83% (100/120) rather than 100%.
We have recently upgraded from1.5 to 1.5.2, since the upgrade i am told by tutors that grades for assignments specified as custom scales A,B,C,D,E,U (stored as 1,2,3,4,5,6) do no longer show and they did before. I presume this is because you can't represent a letter from the scale as a percentage.
Is there a way of telling the grade book to show either the grade as percentage etc or to show the grade as a letter when this has been used. We have numerous assignment submissions that this affects - i understand that altering all grades to marks will allow scales to be used in the advanced grade options, but there seems no way of this working the other way round so to speak! Thanks