I'm not an IT person but am dismayed because Moodle has recently been crashing at an alarming rate. Yesterday alone, 11 times. IT tells me that it's because you're Linux based and we're Windows based. They're threatening to take Moodle away from our school system because it's not compatible with our system. Is there a patch we can use? We're currently using 2.3.2 and the users love it! (when it doesn't crash)
Presumably the servers are crashing because the load generated by users is more than the hardware can cope with. That fact that this is happening now, but did not happen in the past, suggest that more people are making more use of Moodle. This would suggest that your IT department should do more, rather than less, to support Moodle.
There are several options:
- Upgrade to a more recent version of Moodle that may have better performance.
- Use the existing hardware more efficiently:
- http://docs.moodle.org/26/en/Performance_recommendations
- Try Linux instead of Windows.
- Once you have upgraded, try different caching options.
- Buy more hardware.
Of course, if your IT department know what they are doing, they will be monitoring the servers, and will be able to answer beyond doubt:
- Whether usage really has been increasing or decreasing.
- What the bottleneck is. Are the servers running out of disc space, memory, CPU power, network bandwidth ... This may also help suggest the right solution.
Tim, I presume that marking your post useful is totally redundant.
We use both Windows and Linux servers for our Moodles. Linux is infinitely faster and more stable. Windows is just not right for Moodle, though you can struggle through. We are.
I say your IT folks (probably guys) are being obstructionist. Nobody likes a system they don't understand. Upgrade carefully. 2.6 gives much improved performance, but you have to go through the assignment upgrade helper and a quiz upgrade (right, Tim?).
Be fortified to know, even though you aren't an IT, person that hardware is no longer a major expense! So don't be intimidated.
For dealing effectively with IT and getting them on your side, try talking to Mary Cooch. She's done it all.
In fact, since we upgraded last year to 2.3.2, we have only a portion of the users we used to have on the previous version. Only a couple hundred compared to about 2000 in the past. When we upgraded, teachers sought out their own classroom management software and we have a vast array of alternatives. Unfortunately none of them have the capabilities that Moodle has.
I've been assured that our servers can handle this and we have more space and memory than we can possibly use. Since our IT director left, I'm afraid the support and knowledge isn't there. I'm told it's because of our operating system (Windows vs Linux). The crashes did not regularly occur until IT told me they couldn't (didn't know how maybe?) support Moodle anymore. This is sad, but I am a teacher and also the Administrator of the software (user side) because IT doesn't "have the time" to work with it.
They have also informed me that you notify them with an alert when Moodle goes down. Is that correct? Because I also submit trouble tickets as well.
I almost don't know where to start with this...
Firstly, what does "crash" mean? What does it look like? Moodle is really very stable, it's much more likely to be down to some problem or lack of resource on the server than something in the Moodle code. MUCH more likely!
If your admins are worth anything - and assuming it locks up in some way - they should be able to work out (at least) which part of the system is the problem.
Moodle isn't "linux" it's a PHP application. PHP runs perfectly well on Windows. Windows is still rubbish, but if you are stuck with it it can be made to work given the right hardware and setup.
"We" don't send a message to you. "We" don't run your Moodle site, you do
Sorry, Howard. I'm a user and not IT. Crash means it stops working, dead in its tracks and is not accessible online anymore. Any work of viewing abruptly terminates and is lost. Our IT director who left 2 weeks ago assured me that there weren't any problems with our system but another IT person (who took it upon himself to try and get rid of Moodle) said it was an operating system problem. But you're right, if it's a PHP application, it should function well on any system.
Thanks for clearing up that you don't message us. I'm disappointed I was told this. I love Moodle and it has been able to do everything I can imagine in a classroom environment from managing files to statistical analysis (albeit a limited basis) on diagnostic testing. I am fighting this but our Admin believes the current IT person that it's a burden to operate. I'm looking for justification to continue fighting taking it out of our system.
I'm really hoping that our IT isn't sabotaging it by making it crash like this. We don't have a huge user base and it's funny that it only crashes during the time my students are online. When I'm on line by myself, it's fine.
Unfortunately, it sounds like your problems are political more than technical.
It may not be difficult to fix but will require some diagnostic effort. If nobody is willing to do that then, unfortunately, you are dead in the water.
I've seen this before. I could say some horrible things but let's just leave it like this - good admins are like gold dust; useless ones are easy to find.
Howard:
> ... PHP runs perfectly well on Windows. Windows is still rubbish ...
It was just yesterday that during a "crash test" the webserver of the Swiss Civil Defence crashed ([1] German). The server is Microsoft-IIS/6.0 running ASP.NET.
No wonder!
The truth is that, there is a run for IIS! [2] [3]. Incredible!
[1] http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/Service-unavailable-Peinliche-Panne-beim-Sirenentest/story/30440657
[2] http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2014/02/03/february-2014-web-server-survey.html
[3] http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/02/04/1357232/will-microsoft-iis-overtake-apache
> ... PHP runs perfectly well on Windows. Windows is still rubbish ...
It was just yesterday that during a "crash test" the webserver of the Swiss Civil Defence crashed ([1] German). The server is Microsoft-IIS/6.0 running ASP.NET.
No wonder!
The truth is that, there is a run for IIS! [2] [3]. Incredible!
[1] http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/Service-unavailable-Peinliche-Panne-beim-Sirenentest/story/30440657
[2] http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2014/02/03/february-2014-web-server-survey.html
[3] http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/02/04/1357232/will-microsoft-iis-overtake-apache
It makes me a bit sad to hear about those problems. I do have a lot of sympathy towards your IT admins since their situation may be that they are in over their heads with work, and Moodle takes a bit of work to administrate and master. From my experience (3 years of Moodle server admin) it is about 25% job to handle 5 moodle sites and a good Moodle server cluster.
Instead of throwing a brilliant system out the window, someone might just take a look at if 25% of an IT specialist job isnt worth it. Additionally it takes a team to provide support for the users, and that team would need support from a dedicated user team.
My suggestion is therefore, to check with the situation at your institution, what kind of cooperation and support teams are available for the IT admin.
Good luck.
Isn't is obvious? If your IT dept. can not handle it, what alternatives do you have? I could only think of two: a) outsource Moodle b) scrap it altogether.
P.S. This is not going to help you. On a philosophical note see the discussion https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=251276#p1096556 initiated by Mary Cooch in the "Lounge" recently.
P.S. This is not going to help you. On a philosophical note see the discussion https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=251276#p1096556 initiated by Mary Cooch in the "Lounge" recently.
Thanks. I added my 2 cents to the lounge conversation. I really don't want to scrap or outsource. I'm frustrated that it has worked for 6 years and now it suddenly doesn't.
Hi Sharon
You say:
> I really don't want to scrap or outsource.
I still believe in what I said earlier, unless proven otherwise 'course:
>> If your IT dept. can not handle it, what alternatives do you have? I could only think of two: a) outsource Moodle b) scrap it altogether.
> I'm frustrated that it has worked for 6 years and now it suddenly doesn't.
Ask your IT!
You say:
> I really don't want to scrap or outsource.
I still believe in what I said earlier, unless proven otherwise 'course:
>> If your IT dept. can not handle it, what alternatives do you have? I could only think of two: a) outsource Moodle b) scrap it altogether.
> I'm frustrated that it has worked for 6 years and now it suddenly doesn't.
Ask your IT!
If talking to your IT department fails (and they should. These sound like the sort of people who give IT departments a bad name) the go over their heads.
Find the best examples from the last 6 years where teachers have done something good in Moodle that helped students, or saved time and money.
Try to get a rough estimate of how little running Moodle for the last 6 years has cost your institution.
Then present all that in as fair and unbiassed a way as possible to the head of your institution, so that a proper decision can be made as to whether Moodle is something that your institution should do doing.
The point is that this is not just an IT decision, and it is not just an educational decision. There are IT issues and costs involved in running Moodle reliably and securely, and there are educational benefits you get in exchange for those costs. If you can line up the right evidence, the case for Moodle should be obvious, especially since you have a track record of using it within your institution.
If you want additional evidence, look through https://moodle.org/buzz.
I know this is a hassle that you probably don't need right now, but it looks like it has reached the point where an us versus them fight with your IT department is not going to be productive, so you might need to be the one to find a productive way forwards.
Tim, I really like your ideas.
This is kind of like giving the IT department, and/or the school's administration a test. If they get it wrong, then at least one knows exactly what they are dealing with. Great idea.
Maybe this is a good time to mention the Moodle Partners?
There's a handy page to help you find a Moodle Partner (should be a link to a page that helps you search for a Moodle Partner).
And Moodle even has a discussion forum where you can read about people's experiences using the partners' services:
Link to Moodle Partners Discussion Forum
IT depts come in all shapes and sizes, and I know from experience that there are IT depts that are positively phobic about running Moodle (and a lot of other applications). In these cases, the Moodle Partners can be really helpful, since they take on the technical burden of making Moodle run smoothly while you concentrate on what you are good at (teaching). I've had great success using them when I lack IT support for Moodle.
Of course the Moodle Partners need to be paid for their work, but if you're going over the head of IT, you can make a proposal for funding to hire a Moodle Partner (very reasonable, in my experience). Just another idea for running Moodle when IT isn't supportive.
Peter
Hi Sharon,
IT gave an extremely simplistic answer, where they don't actually want to do their job.
First step would be to determine the cause for those crashes, then they need to check the web server error log. It would also be helpful to enable Moodle debugging.
I think you've nailed it about doing the job. They don't understand the program. I've been the major power user for more than 6 years and currently am also the administrator (user side) for the school corporation as a whole. They insist there is no reason for the crashes and that it's only because we use Windows instead of Linux.
Thanks. I'll check the debugging page.