I'm looking for something similar to DragMath for my Moodle. We used it before and it crashed a lot. So now none of our instructors are want to try to use it again. Is there something similar to DragMath we could use?
so, in as much as it was likely not dragmath crashing but your local workstation configuration, does that mean you also stopped using those workstations? Teach them TeX
Hi Shawn,
WIRIS editor is a commercial alternative to Dragmath.
Probably most of the problems with Dragmath were due to the fact that it is a Java applet. WIRIS editor is based on Javascript so there is no conflict with Java.
You can play with the EDITOR in a stand alone page at www.wiris.com/editor/demo
For detailed Moodle information www.wiris.com/moodle
Shawn,
This topic has come under considerable discussion in some other threads of late. There does not to be a good solution yet, but there is talk of working on a editor plugin in the near future. Depending what you are using it for WIRIS is a commercial solution that may meet your needs, but requires a license.
It might be helpful to the discussion to know your specific needs to guide the development. What level are your instructors working with and what features of Dragmath do they really need? Is the equation editor for instructors or student? Are either really capable of composing TeX by hand? What do the instructors say they want?
From current options Wiris is the most stable but commercial one. We did test some experimental plugins during the past few years but moodle 2 has also changed a lot during that time so old versions of old plugins may not work in your current moodle anymore.
Moodle 2.7 is going to change default editor to Atto and there is no Wiris Atto plugin available yet but I suppose Wiris team is going to write a plugin for Atto too in the near future...
I was testing yesterday and today a new kind of a plugin prototype for Atto (my first Atto plugin) that is using php and javascript (based on David Lippman's modifications to Mathquill and jQuery in addition to core Atto code) and it should be fully configurable with plugin administration settings of moodle (language, types, toolbars, elements, symbols, output formats etc) - but most likely it won't be "production ready" before the end of February. All the code of this plugin is going to be open source and according my first tests the plugin should support both mobiles, tablets and desktop browsers - if moodle (Atto) itself supports them. So it might be something similar to DragMath or Wiris with some new features included.
Like Daniel I am also interested to hear what kind of elements do you prefer to have in a "basic equation editor" or "advanced equation editor". Check http://www.wiris.com/en/editor/docs/release/list-icons-3.9 and http://www.wiris.com/editor/demo/en/toolbar.html for a start.
I am inclined to agree with Marc here, most plugins require too much attention to maintain. Perhaps that could be Moodle is changing too rapidly to allow third party plugins to keep apace, take your pick. Moodle uses a variation of TeX that is very similar to WolframAlpha, so learning TeX has a number of uses outside Moodle.
Learning TeX won't harm anybody but in my opinion we really should create a good, new (read: easy to use) equation (+graph) editor to core moodle. In moodle 1.X you needed to hack core code to add new plugins like DragMath to HTMLArea. We were struggling with browsers like IE6 not supporting SVG or MathML or virtually anything else... In moodle 2.0...2.3 we got new filter system and new tinymce 3 plugin system and some old filters and plugins stopped working. Instead of theme hacks we got Additional HTML to administration menu for adding script tags (MathJax, JSXGraphs...) to site source. It made using cloud server scripts easier. In moodle 2.4 location (integration method) of custom plugins was changed and some plugins stopped working. In moodle 2.7 we are going to have again new default editor and most old plugins need to be rewritten... It's a long period of time anyway and now it's time to move forward again.
Personally I am going to use lots of my "testing time" during the next few weeks to help moodle HQ developers with
https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43841 and particularly https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43855
Wolfram Alpha has a huge example database and it can translate some words from other languages but it's mostly designed for english speaking users. About 6% of world population are native english speakers and about 20% of people can understand the basic language but may not know special words like mathematical terms of english. Like you said elsewhere, Colin, teachers are busy and they won't use many minutes to test something that does not work when they try it for the first time. If their iPad does not open a video file they uploaded to moodle it's either moodle's fault or iPad's fault because "it works fine in that other tool". If their IE11 can't scale image in editor it's either moodle's fault or editor's fault because their old IE could scale the image ok...
So to avoid LaTeX frustration we should have some tools that could be used without any knowledge of LaTeX like you can nowadays write text to web pages (moodle) without any knowledge of HTML, javascript, php or any programming languages.
Yes. It's great to import Examview questions with the Nash Community College's XML converter, or to import the Worksheet Builder questions that I've created with some other converter but it would be far better just to have the tools to create these questions in Moodle and avoid all the file extension issues and the issue of a file with a life span of a plugin whose death may not be known until a student lets you know. I hope your efforts work out. Thanks.
Hello Mike,
May I point out that in all Moodle recent versions, you don't need Nash Community College XML converter to import Examview questions, You only need to choose "Blackboard V6+" in Moodle 2.4 or just "Blackboard" in Moodle 2.5 and 2.6 and all your Examview questions should import just fine with all the images. So you are not tied to any plugin.
If you find an Examview file that is not correctly imported please create a tracker issue an attach this file, so that I can look at the problem and try to fix it.
For the Workshhet Builder questions, could you post a sample or point me to some documentation so that I can see if an import plugin would be an interesting project for my next summer .
My opinion has always been that we should be able to provide tools that make Maths usage universal and transparent; and that means that whatever syntax you use you should be able to use to enter expressions, and that Moodle should be able to display that expression as well as provide you the option to edit same. One of the benefits of dragmath was its use of a set of xml files to provision it, allowing it to be able to produce expressions in a number of different forms and appropriately tokenized. Likewise, one of the beauties of MathJax is that it has started along a path to do the same thing.
One of the problems we have as residents of a global community is that we don't write Math the same, even among the same language groups. In fact, in the US we see people getting militant about ceasing to teach cursive! But how much more difficult is it, for example, to teach that one writes x² as x^2, or $$\sqrt{x}$$ as \sqrt{x} or even as x^(1/2) ? where we really see issues is when we get to doing matrices and aligning equations, and frankly asciimathml has the same kind of issues there as LaTeX....
Yes, a constructor is a great tool, but will soon be discarded anyone who is paying attention to what the constructor is producing, simply as a matter of personal economy.... if I can write \sqrt[n]{x} in 3 seconds why use the constructor?
But we will never have a world where everyone writes everything in the same way. And we need to acknowledge that and recognize that it is the purpose of a tool to make things easier, not more difficult.
But, we will also expect tool users not to blame their ineptitude on their tools
One of the good points of MathQuill scripts is that you can do both - write the syntax or write to "boxes" that get changed to more visual "math mode" style. And David Lippman already wrote a javascript to translate basic mathquill code to AsciiMathML and back - similar scripts could be used to convert the input of plugin to other output formats as well.
What I have tested so far is to use splitted javascripts of MathQuill in a php file that can be set to read custom settings from database or other files than usual MathQuill symbols in a javascript file - so yes, the formats can be taken from practically any files including XML, database etc
MathQuill content can be moved to normal textarea and with a couple onchange/onclick event handlers content can be automatically updated so that you can paste latex from other pages to textarea and script convert it to "math mode" if the code is valid. Currently this is one of the weak points. You can also create "similar expressions" to scripts so that if syntax of distro X is different from distro Y you can input both/all of them but output is converted to one format (for example MathJax syntax).
This php file is in an iframe inside Atto plugin and discussion between editor plugin and the frame document can be made both with YUI3 (to send values to iframe) and jQuery (to send values back to Atto plugin). So even if the policy of HQ is to avoid jQuery the first version of plugin can use both YUI3 and jQuery and core developers can eventually translate MathQuill scripts to YUI3 if they like the ideas...
But yes, I agree, those people who can use latex don't need plugins at all - they just need to know the delimiters the math renderer is using...
As usual Mauno, your observations are sufficiently detailed and authoritative enough to explain complex issues easily. What concerns me is that every tool used adds another layer of complexity to the result. Complex systems are more prone to breakdown so I am seriously suggesting that simple is best. I am, I think, an advocate of TeX, for the simple reason it can be used in a variety of tools. TeXWorks for producing your own PDFs, Moodle, and when set up properly, Wikimedia, WordPress and probably Mahara as well. Make it as simple as we can, is I suggest, the most reasonable and least expensive in terms of time and programming resources... but this is getting off topic.
Still, instead of saying the TeX is like Dragmath, or any other tool, would it not be better to suggest that these tools are trying to emulate TeX? So I might suggest that if anyone wants a useful tool, TeX has to be an improvement on other tools.
Thanks. I'll investigate TeX.
While I am not advocating for it, I did you (Colin) send some examples of what "real" TeX looks like and some notes on how it could be used for editing as opposed to html (markup is markup.) Of course, the more choices, the more complex, and the more complex the more difficult to use.
Tex is not like DragMath. DragMath is a pearl of an app that allows one to visually assemble an expression, and then convert that expression to a variety of syntaxes and then save or insert an expression, with tokens of the users choosing, wheresoever the user wishes. Notice that I didn't mention Tex there, lol. Yes, TeX is a target, and maybe even the prime target, but it need not be.
One other thing... as I am sure you have noticed, a huge problem with teaching maths is getting students to respect columns when they stack. Think about that
I do understand the differences here Marc and yes, TeX can be incredibly complex, but at this point, I am advocating the use of TeX mainly for teachers, in junior high and high schools. I am sure the tools will get better as time goes on, but considering the relationship between maths and computers, plus the fact that computers have been in schools now for over 20 years, why are we still trying to get simplified tools that actually work? Why are the majority of maths teachers so reluctant to use computers in their classes? In one state here, computers are actively discouraged in maths classes by schools. Why?
That aside, the bottom line for me is still the same, too many teachers who do use computers have the attitude that if it takes more that one step to get on screen what I want to see, it is too complicated. That is why I recommend TeX Notation in Moodle over anything else.
Colin,
obviously we are not talking about the same "thing" anymore...
For a newbie user TeX and LaTeX are a wide open world (or jungle) full of interesting features that require different extra packages. When you install offline TeX editors like TeXWorks you usually need also something like TeXLive, MiKTeX or MacTeX. The first example documents you open with tools like TeXWorks may look like this:
When you come to moodle and try to copy some cool examples you may notice that depending on your site administrator's desicions you may see
a) nothing
b) the same TeX code unrendered
c) parts of code rendered with Mimetex or MathJax or some distribution of LaTeX with some extra packages or with TeX filter and limited output ( + blacklisted words )
The reason for this is that your home tool for rendering TeX may be different from your moodle site TeX renderer if there even is one. So the only option is to create a pdf document and upload it to moodle. Nobody can edit that document, nobody can learn from the code (like you can check the TeX source with MathJax). The same thing can of course happen if you use more "WYSIWYM" tools like LyX or Mathtype and copy/paste the LaTeX source to moodle. If the tool that you are using for typing TeX at home/work is not the same as the one moodle is using the risk for failure is big.
Personally I like to use boxes and MathType when I create exams or other documents - for printing the documents. I have tested about 100 different kind of tools and none of them is as simple as handwriting (paper and pen). Still if I can choose between typing latex or using an editor that outputs the code for me I always choose the editor tool. How long would you estimate it takes for a typical teacher to write the following LyX example with LaTeX source (this example requires flash in your browser) :
http://wiki.lyx.org/uploads/LyX/Screencasts/Equation_Editor.swf
Agreed Mauno, you are quite right, but I suggest that TeX in Moodle is far simpler and easier to learn and use than most other tools. Take your typical junior high and high school maths teacher. "I know what I know and I am not over interested in exploring much outside that" is a far too common attitude amongst convergent thinkers, (I know, I have worked with and met with such people from a number of different countries and I am amazed they manage to survive and sometimes be "successful" with that attitude.) I am not going to change that attitude, so I need to create an environment that has minimal impact on what they need to know. Given a set of clear, concise instructions on how to use TeX in Moodle, (and dare I say they can be found in the Using TeX Notation Docs) most of the same people would give it a try, If, however, they need to be jumping around from app to app then copy and paste and all that stuff'n'nonsense, they just won't do it. Not all maths teachers, but far too many are like this and it is those that we need to convince that there is a tool that can be used, it is safe and relatively user friendly. These people are not stupid, they only need be convinced that it is OK to use the tools provided. To do that, they need something that is simple and does not take up too much time to use or to learn.
(If they go to using a tool like TeXWorks first, then yes, there are huge difficulties in understanding what is going on. But let's face it, the TeX community does not have any simple tutorials or definitive guides, to do anything, Most of the materials I found were either so poorly written they were almost indecipherable or of the "Look in wonder and gaze in awe at my brilliance!" type. I may not be the sharpest knife in the draw, but I can read and write and what documentation I found was really rubbish. One day I might just start rewriting some of it to make it easier to read.)
For Moodle, trying to incorporate an equation editor may not be a successful strategy, so run with what is already there. TeX Notation is not difficult to use, just be handier if it was more mainstream in its use of tokens - everything else is almost the same. A standard set of inclusions that cover most maths chemistry and science symbols would meet the majority of school needs and well into advanced education, I suggest. Further specialization would be up to individual institutes.
The only reason I mention those other environments is that I have used TeX in those environments, (not Mahara, but I cannot see it not working, if set up.)
lol, in fact the doc I sent Colin in December was a TeX manuscript I had created in TexWorks and of course that doc is not importable into LyX, lol.
But, here in the US I think you would find that very few Math teachers know how to use any Math syntax.... And after years of requesting when the local district of 50K students rolled out Moodle, it was still a battle to implement ASCIIMathML or TeX and neither is probably used today with the retirement of the fellow who was pushing to make use of it....
Moreover, an attempt to have the local University Math Department sponsor either a Webworks installation or a Moodle installation with STACK so as to support development of Math teachers was rejected as unrelated to the interests of the Department.
'Mirka, land of the exceptional, lol
Marc,
I have never tried importing docs from TexWorks to LyX but are you sure that they are not importable? This example shows importing whole Latex doc to LyX among other things...
http://wiki.lyx.org/uploads/LyX/Screencasts/LyX_and_LaTeX.swf
well, anything complex will blow LyX up, so you can say that Tex can be imported, but you don;t want to count on that. There are steps one can take to make it less likely to blow up, but what becomes apparent pdq is that it is really not worth it and you might as well start from scratch in LyX
And I am surprised at that revelation Marc? Maths teachers seem to be the same all over the world... Legends in their own lunch times!
The KISS principle really applies here doesn't it..but enough of this levity!
Mauno suggests an equation and graphing tool as native in Moodle.. what a great idea, but never going to happen unless it is a third party plugin and is sufficiently well maintained to keep up with the rather gruelling update schedule that Moodle.org has developed. I doubt Moodle.org will have the resources to develop such a tool, then to maintain it. Perhaps in HTML5 and PHP with some javascript, but will be a lot of work.
But I keep coming back to my original question of why is it so hard to develop a maths tool used by a device that relies so heavily upon maths for its development and ongoing refinement and for all its basic functions? The maths might be binary, but maths it is so why does it seem so difficult?
The (+graph) was in parentheses but creating a fully functional Geogebra plugin with javascript & HTML5 could be done to Atto any day. It does not require java anymore, you can communicate with http://geogebraweb.appspot.com/app.html using javascript/HTML5 or java...
And we have already DragMath in core, right? The new core plugin is in tracker list https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-43855
Atto has a very basic level MathJax plugin but core developers can easily add new features to it. In fact I started my Atto plugin testing based on this plugin, before that I had tested CKEditor plugin because it has those new widgets http://ckeditor.com/demo#widgets that allow showing MathJax previews in tiny iframes inside the editor content area (and we could do the same for geogebra graphs). I could create a prototype CKEditor Maths plugin in a couple of days by combining Mathjax widgets and Matquill scripts. The idea there is that mathjax code in editor content area is inside a span tags that have a class "MathJax". Plugin converts automatically these spans to iframes and when you click the element plugin opens it for editing. When you save the code you get span tags with MathJax type LaTeX syntax to database. It's really simple actually. No hassling with images or image renderers.
The only problem with Atto is that it has no such widget plugins as CKEditor has implemented (yet) - but iframes can be implemented to single plugins as well. The main problem with CKEditor is that it does not currently support for example Android an Windows mobiles.
World wide web was not designed for using maths and obviously we all expect that somebody else could create such tools for us. Why is it so hard? Because mathematics is not simple thing to translate to any other syntax or code. Mathematics as a "language" is a pretty complex thing and that's why KISS is not always a relevant demand...
Where is Atto found?
I get TinyMCE http://www.tinymce.com/, is there an equivalent page for Atto?
-Derek
The latest unofficial version of Atto might be here: https://github.com/damyon/atto_27 but HQ team should add it to core in the near future. For moodle 2.5 and 2.6 you should find the old version from https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=editor_atto
No docs because HQ developers need to write the code for editor itself first MDL-43841
Edit: or you could of course use http://docs.moodle.org/dev/Editor_2.7 as a reference...
I am very slow sometime Mauno. Does that mean Atto is developed from scratch by MoodleHQ? Or based on something?
-Derek
Well, almost from scratch - before Atto Damyon Wiese contributed https://moodle.org/plugins/view.php?plugin=editor_contenteditable
Following the tracks you might find "ancestors" http://www-archive.mozilla.org/editor/midasdemo/ or http://www.kevinroth.com/rte/demo.htm
when you handwrite English using cursive (I think you do that in Oz?) you have to focus not only the linguistic aspects of your statement, but on the 'display' - you may use lined paper to keep your scibble from running amok both as to its cartesian destination and as to its ascenders and descenders, lol. But you take much of that for granted, and when you turn to your computer all of that is magically handled for you.
But in communicating Math you are increasing complexity (in that you are suddenly reading the math left to right, and right to left and up and down and down and up!) That is why I mention the concept ot teaching students about stacking...
If you present a student with this system:
$$3x + 2y = c && 7y - 3c = x $$
You want them to be able to stack the equation (which might require something like this in tex - \begin{align*}&3x + &2y = &c\\&7y - &3c = &x \end{align*} - which in fact won't work in Moodle.org because Moodle.org is using the ancient Moodle TeX filter and then you want your students to juggle the terms in one of the equations so that like terms are in the same columns.... and if there is a term missing you want to leave that space "blank"
In the example above - easily rendered in TeX using MathJax - it is apparent how I can use elimination (or rref, lol) with the 1st and 3rd equation, while I would have to juggle the terms of the 2nd equation (unless I were to be using substitution.)
But to accomplish the stacking in Tex I have to use code to signify the use of token to parse the columns, so I use \begin{align*} ... \end{align*} and then I use an & to tag each location I might want to have aligned (and yes, I can shift those operators so that they are associated with the second terms by adding an & in front of the operation signs .)
This process is not unless setting your tabs if you are fluent with your word processor/desktop publisher - but how many people actually take the time to consider what that might mean.... I still am trying to get public school teachers to use stylesheets and templates to teach manuscript styles to their students, lol.
Marc, yeah.. I lerned how to reed and rite proper like... and how to use ink and blotting paper, mixing ink and carefully pouring it into inkwells... and then, being left handed, how to smudge it all.. (I think I am a year or two older than you old son.) I do get the necessity of layout and order and such, but these things are out of favour here now, I find it hard to read essays that are written from the last page to the front page or in a spiral format as the student is bored.
I have to agree that the TeX Notation filter is well past its use-by date, but who in Moodle HQ is prepared to take the whole process of developing a new TeX filter? I like Mauno's comment about Atto and Geogebra, but how long is that going to take? More importantly, how long is it going to be before the Community is using v2.7? (Assuming the plugins are available by then.)
I did a relief class for an absent Multimedia teacher, I was amazed to see that he had them using HTML4, no javascript, basic inline and embedded styles, CSS2, but no stylesheets. Unbelievable. Very disappointing. Latest and greatest I got told....duh!
Many sites upgrade their production versions in summertime so the new plugins and editors should be fully tested before summer. Atto is already included to the next 2.7 integration version. If and when CKEditor plugin is coming to Moodle plugins database (HQ developers were planning to move the editor27 projectversion there) it might be a more stable and flexible custom plugin platform for desktop browsers and hopefully CKEditor developers can fix the known Android bugs so that they could open wider mobile support to core CKEditor (in 6 months???).
Core Atto is most likely maintained by 3 developers so it is not a huge community but if they know what they are doing we might see an improved version of MathJax plugin in March or April.
People find bugs always afterwards even from so called "quality code" - for example when I was testing editor27 project MathJax plugin yesterday I noticed that it actually can't handle more than 1 equation in an editor content area because it picks just the first content inside doubledollars and updates it - not the selected one (if you have more than 1 equation there). In CKEditor each widget has different id and when you edit a span tag new id is created for selected span for editing in plugin and removed when saved from plugin. And if CKEditor has more than one math plugin each of these plugins can use different span classes for widgets so you can actually have many similar kind of plugins but equations are opened for editing in that plugin that created the span. These plugins can be made smart enough so that end users don't see any source during the editing process unless they want to check source with editor's source button.
One reason for community not upgrading yet to 2.7 might be that it requires PHP 5.4.4 ...
I was born the year of Operation Hurricane... if you are older than I am you need to use a more current picture, Colin
I wasn't arguing that you went into education ultimately because you kept coming home with ink on your sleeves (do they have sleeves in Oz) though that was likely the case I was arguing that we just take many conventions for granted with respect to non-Math and for Math we need today at least to be explicit.
It really wouldn't be all that hard to create a TeX plugin - it is not the coding that would be painful but the dealing with those on high, lol. If someone wrote a subsystem that provided a Lyx-like app and tied that on the back end to pandoc to provide real-time output anywhere in any format, do you think that would make anyone happy? And that brings us back to whether html is a viable format (as opposed, for sake of argument, to tex.) Bottom line is that the more complex the document, the more likely you will need to use some interface to be able to manage the complexities for you, and the more likely someone will get upset that your tool does X instead of Y (or Y instead of X) and no matter what, your tool will be obsolete before it is "finished".... And then you have to deal with people who use Internet Explorer....
One of Peter and David's early efforts had a panel of clickable exemplars one could select from which would insert the appropriate expression in text as opposed to a constructor - great learning tool, but is it what Colonel Mustard wants in the Drawing Room Thursday Evening? In fact you could do something of the sort with dragmath.
One of the hoops one has to leap through when learning to use dragmath is really how it works, spatially. Took me back when I first looked at it because it requires you to create space for what you want to say, instead of just letting you say it. That, in a sense, requires one to recalibrate how one thinks about an expression, and the user who insists that he is NOT about to do that, will continue to find dragmath problematic.
But the person who is teaching Alg 2 is not going to write out or construct the quadratic formula everytime he needs to use it.... there are parents forms which we frankly all would be happy to take advantage of (hence the clickable insert, lol), and if I can take a few to save a basic diagram for what I want to say, I might well do that (why, it's like a macro!!!) But try as we might, Martin was not about to allow Moodle.org to parse ASCIIMathML, afterall that would have been the `root(all)(evil)`
Well, that was a bit of a ramble.... apparently I need more java...
Cheers
I like to play with math but I teach computer applications. Of the two examples in that LyX screencast, since I seldom use LaTex, it took about 20 minutes to do the first one just using LaTex built into my Moodle site. I then tried it using Dragmath in the TinyMCE editor. After 40 minutes and 6 failed attempts, I'm giving up for now and going home. It is an hour past my quitting time.
AL
Most teachers would give up easier - in ten minutes (coffee break).
This LyX guy made the whole thing in a minute. I have used LyX a few times but it has probably too many buttons and hidden options - like Ribbon in MS Office tools although Ribbon was designed to be more user friendly: "The Ribbon is designed to help you quickly find the commands that you need to complete a task. Commands are organized in logical groups, which are collected together under tabs. Each tab relates to a type of activity, such as writing or laying out a page. To reduce clutter, some tabs are shown only when needed."
It's a common UI desing problem - DragMath has less buttons and less options so it can also output less code. In this case Wiris has made many good choices http://www.wiris.com/en/news/wiris-editor-customizable-toolbar
Ideally an equation editor should also be able to change input mode anytime so that you can write either LaTeX or use buttons and boxes or both like http://wiki.lyx.org/uploads/LyX/Screencasts/LyXIntroPalette.swf
Some of us clearly want to use drag & drop tools, some of us want to click, click and click and some of us want to write text. I might want to use all of them...
I would too, if I could get them to work...
Hi Al, yes I know the frustration that can accompany using anything resembling a maths tool in Moodle, but, stick with it. Here is the link to the Using TeX Notation docs. These will give you an idea on how to write TeX in Moodle and I hope it is clear enough to follow to get it working for you quickly.
As for getting TeX to work, if you do not have it working for you, try this link on the TeX Notation Filter, it describes what is required to make it workable. This is the usual problem when people start using TeX, It is supposed to work out of the box, but it doesn't always do so. If you do not have access to the server, then your Moodle Admins should be able to sort it for you, as long as you give them the information they need.
Hi Colin,
Yes, I have LaTex working on my site. I typically only use it for page layout of text that I want students to type and not be able to just copy and paste. I have been developing a few remedial math questions for my computer students, so I have been picking up a little more familiarity with Tex Notation.
I was just trying to challenge myself to see if I could use the Dragmath editor to re-create the formulas shown in the LyX swf that Mauno showed the link to. He was wondering how long it would take a typical teacher to write the same formula. After playing with it, I see why I have not been able to get any of our math teachers to use anything but chalk boards or pencil and paper.
AL
Now, this... "... been developing a few remedial math questions.." coming directly after "...I want students to type and not be able to just copy and paste." is a very interesting idea. I really want to thank you for that, Al, I think I now have another strategy I can employ to make sure my students actually understand what they are doing in maths.
What really gives me a chuckle, is the students who will try to copy and paste anyway, and never notice that I usually have my name at the bottom of the text using a color that matches the page background, to prove that it was MY work not theirs. The worst was a kid last year. We were learning how to use GIMP and LO Draw. My directions included before and after pictures. He totally ignored the half inch tall blue text that identified them as mine.
I still get the "click here for more information" on printed docs, not often but occasionally. Really annoying. My favourite is the essay that only had one line (word for word) in it I could not find on the net some where, and Dad only has a go at me for giving the kid an F. I kept a copy of the essay and noted every site he used, just to show other staff, but certainly quietened the father down when he saw it.