Is "group" of any use at all???

Is "group" of any use at all???

by Eric Francoeur -
Number of replies: 9
Sorry for the provocative title, but after "experimenting" with the group feature, I fail to see how it could be of any use to me.

Here is the scenario: one course, two different classes; thus, for example, same assignment, but different due dates. Pretty basic...

Now, the way I understand this, I should be able to create an assignment, and specifiy somewhere (where?) to which group the assignement apply. I've so far failed to do that. So either A) it's not possible, or B) I've missed something Pensif. Can anyone set me straight on this?

I'm quite ready to create two "courses" for two different classes. not elegant, but perfectly workable. I'd just like to have a straight answer before I go down that path.

Sorry again for coming out so strongly, but I need to know! Otherwise, I just love moodle. Thanks, and keep up the great work!  Eric

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In reply to Eric Francoeur

Different due dates for different groups

by Martin Dougiamas -
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The assignment module is currently being revamped competely - I'll make sure it has due-dates-by-groups in it.  Please file a feature request in the bug tracker to help me remember.
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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Different due dates for different groups

by Ray Kingdon -
Ah, if groups have different due dates in assignment that would knock on to all other modules with due dates. Otherwise Groups are going to mean different things in different places in Moodle. I'm thinking, of course, in particular of the exercise and workshop modules. It would be a nice feature but in those modules it would also mean that the phase (the stage the assignment is on) needs to be group dependent as well.

[Thinks rhetorical question -] How is that going to be implemented? [Answer - Gulp!]

The only neat way, I can think of, would be by "psuedo" instances of the module. It needs one instance of the module for each group in the course. But from the teacher/student point of view only one instance appears in their course. The actual instance they use depends on their group. If you can implement that sort of mechanism at a course level there would be no need to mangle these group dependences into any modules. (The verb "mangle" is probably too weak in this context evil)

What do you think, pretty please wink
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In reply to Ray Kingdon

Re: Different due dates for different groups

by Martin Dougiamas -
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Very good point, Ray, thanks, and a good idea for a solution. approve

On one hand I do like that solution, even though it could be incredibly complex (imagine what happens when groups are added/removed).   mixed   It would really need a lot of thought, particularly moving forward into a situation where people may be part of multiple groups or ad-hoc activity-based groups.

On the other hand I still think anything with a due date is in fact a type of assignment, so Exercise (and maybe even Workshop?) should join the fold and become an Assignment submodule. wink  big grin
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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Different due dates for different groups

by Ray Kingdon -
"Anything with a due date is in fact a type of assignment", true but in practise it's nice to have assignments which just "roll along". Having different cohorts using the same module "instance", with perhaps cohorts even overlapping, makes life a lot easy from the teacher's point of view. I'm currently re-jigging the Workshop module to try and loosen some of the "phasing"/deadline constraints. Deadlines will always be necessary but better they are associated with the group not the module "instance". Trouble is the same group will have different deadlines for their various assignments. It needs a (cm, groupid) table. Is that equivalent to Gustav's request?
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In reply to Ray Kingdon

Re: Different due dates for different groups

by Gustav W Delius -
I agree totally with Ray that it would put too much unnecessary burden on the activity modules. The need to slow slightly different versions of activities to different groups was one of the reasons for my suggestion in http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=11117 to be able to restrict activities to a subset of students. One could use that mechanism to simply create one instance of the activity for each group. No need to change anything within the module code.
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Re: Different due dates for different groups

by Martin Dougiamas -
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Yes, that's better. Much more in the spirit of Unix (providing complex functionality by combining simple functions).
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In reply to Ray Kingdon

Re: Different due dates for different groups

by Eric Francoeur -
I'm all in favor of the "pseudo-instance" (which I also believe to be a fairly elegant solution). In fact, this is kind of what I was trying to do. But, if I understand correctly, it is not possible to do this at the moment? Best, Eric 
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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Different due dates for different groups

by Bernard Boucher -
Hi all,

I hope I have well understand the problemblush

If so I think that the suggestion I made to Timothy few months ago but that I didn't take time to programsleepy may be applicable:

add a "calendar event dependance" for the accessibility of some or all modules.

That way, if you have 10 activities in a topic or in a week, only one change in the calendar events by the teacher will lock/unlock all theses activities at the same time and for only the event focus. ( group, course, site events).

Many usefull applicationssmile. If you enter a group schedule for a semester then you will be able to allow certains ressources and/or activities at theses predifined times if you wish.


In few weeks I will probably give it a try.

Bye,

Bernard

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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Different due dates for different groups

by Steven Geggie -

I think you are on the right track with this.  We need to make the idea of "multiple course sections" fully functional.  This means that when quizzes are setup, they can be setup for each group/section and access will only be provided for a group for the designated time.

My faculty at Trinity International University are really excited about using Moodle this fall.  I think there is tremendous opportunity for this technology within our institution.  I am grateful that we have access to such a system. 

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