Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -
Number of replies: 40
 

Hi moodlers,

    you will find attached some moodle's modified files permitting some activities linking.

Please don't try these on a production system.

The linking is not intended to replace the moodle activity linking  http://moodle.org/bugs/bug.php?op=show&bugid=297 .

In the meantime, when it will be tested by some moodle's kings wink it may be usefull to someone ( at least for me ! )

A  readme file is included for the installation.

What you get:

1 - At this time, only quiz and resource modules may be dependants ( or hidden or locked  or linked ) of one other module.( that will be enhanced later! )

2 - Any module may be the predecessor or the activator of the linked module.

3 - If a quiz if choosen as a predecessor it must be fully graded ( 100 % ) to unlock linked activity. ( that will be enhanced later! )

4 - All others modules ( even if they are gradables ) have only to be "view" by the student to unlock linked module.( that will be enhanced later! )

What you loose:

To limit coding time ( 20 hours ) and code ( <100 lines added ) ( 5 lines/hr Martin will not hire me wink ) a small moodle's fonctionnality was sacrified to keep it simple in the meantime: 

you will not be able , when in editing mode, to "moveto" a hidden module. If you really need to move an hidden module, show it, move it and hide it again. That is the cost to pay at this moment. 

How to use it ( teacher ):

A - Hide the module you want to be dependant.

B - Try to move it. Instead of the message "moveto" you will have "predecessor" before each other module in the course.

C - Click on the desired predessesor. It fullname will appear at the right of the linked module.

D - If you want to remove the link show the linked module.

E - Modules hidden but not linked are treated as before.

How to use it ( student ):

F - All modules are treated as before if they are not linked.

G - Linked modules without the predecessor's condition realised do not appears.

H - As soon as the predecessor is done ( at that moment quiz grade or view of all others modules )

      the hidden linked module appears as if it was not hidden.

I - If a student try to type in the address bar the link to the quiz or the ressource a message   indicate the name of the predessesor and the required grade for quiz.

Your comments are welcome for:

Real english messages

Significant language variable names ( for later )

...

If you check the code you will see some //bb comments and some commented echo lines for debugging.

Be indulgent for the coding it is my first php attempt!

 

Thank you for your testing time and have a good try,

 Bernard

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Timothy Takemoto -

Dear Bernard,
Dear Bernard,

I am not sure what this bit is 

2 - Add 4 fields to course_modules
      linkid int(11) NOT NULL default '0',
      linkgrade int(10) NOT NULL default '0',
      linkname varchar(20) NOT NULL default '',
      linkfullname int(10) NOT NULL default '0',

My guess is that this refers to adding four fields to the database, but I am not sure how I would do this. I have never done anything so daring. I do have the database module installed. I have found the course_modules table, and there is an "add" button, but it takes me to a screen in which I am not sure how to add the data that you show above. If I don't press the add button and scroll down there is a text field or two that allows me to query the database. But I guess that is different. I suppose that it is not possible to write somethign like 

create llinkfullname int(10) NOT NULL default '0',

It seems that PHP can create additions to database tables. Are you planning to write that part any time soon?

I would send a capture of my database manager screen but it is in Japanese, and the language does not change even when I change the language of my site. I am not sure why.

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Timothy Takemoto -

Okay, I had a fiddle, and realised, first of all, why it was displayign in Japanese - my personal setting as well as the site setting were in that language.
I now see that there is a "Add new field: At end of table" button. Which when pressed, reveals, it looks like I will be able to add the fields you mention using this, yippee.

For all those that do not know this database manager is available at
http://moodle.org/download/modules/
as MYSQL admin at the bottom.

adding.jpg

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Timothy Takemoto -

Yes, it works! It is really nice, I like it.

All I have done so far is made a quiz dependent upon viewing a resource.

Some bugs?

1) My settings icons have suddenly disappeared. I am using 1.1.1. I know that this is in Japanese but you can see the empty boxes on the left. There were icons there till I uploaded the five files.
iconless.jpg







 

 

 

 

2) Very minor but when I hid the test, and then pressed move to set its predecessor, as well as the word "predecessor" before all of the resources there was also one "move to here" tab which appeared at the end of each weeks resources (or at the very least at the end of the week that contained the hidden test).

I feel as though I am taking part in a revolution which is going to torture millions of unsuspecting university students. Let them jump through hoops! Let them read the text, before attempting the commrehension questions! Let them study while at university!

So, any ideas about why my icons have disappeared?

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Timothy Takemoto -

Okay, by returning the files to their originals one by one I found that it was the lib.php file that causes my icons to disappear.

The icons that are dissappearing are only those in the "settings" category, which means that only two icons are missing from the student view ("change password" and "evaluation").

Other than that some requests
1) I don't think that the ability to move hidden items is important, but perhaps the updownarrow icon should change to a chainlink icon to indicate its change in function.

2) Mutiple dependencies would be nice but by no means essential, especially if, and I have not tested this...

3) chained dependencies were possible. I.e. A is dependent upon B. which is dependent upon C. Perhaps this is possible already.

4) Hidden/dependent items should appear as ghosts or with (perhaps the same) chainlink icon to show students that they are there, but locked. Perhaps clicking them should show a pink moodle-message saying "You cannot access this item until you have viewed or answered dependency".  This is probably the most important request. As it stands I am going to get a lot of students saying "But I can't see the homework."

5) Exams might be set to be dependent at less than 100% BUT I do not think that this is important.

All in all it is brilliant. 

Thank you, once the icon bug is fixed you, or the recipient of your choice, can have the paltry $50 that I pledged.

Either way you have my gratitude,

Thanks again,

Tim  

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -
Hi Timothy,
Thanks for your testing and for your suggestions.

I will try to reproduce your icon bug ( I don't have it ) this week and I will try to make some enhancements too. ( The ghost one is my priority , halloween is coming wink )

Please don't use too much compliments most of them must be adressed to Martin and other moodlers.
100 buggies lines is nothing compared to Moodle.
And I will need a dictionary to understand them!

For the "paltry" the recipient should be the same as the compliments.

Bye,
Bernard
In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Timothy Takemoto -

Bernard,

The icon bug could be something to do with my system being in Japanese.This often cause problems. So if you really do want to reproduce the bug, try setting your system to Japanese.

I am sorry if I am too gushing and smarmy. I am useless php-wise so I seem to think it my business to compliment all those that are being useful. And this is going to be useful to me (icons or not). I could hack the code to do away with the settings' icons entirely.

The ghosts will be worth wait.  And the paltry will go the way you suggest.

Tim


In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by PeterJaap de Bruin -
will I be able to insert a source and a quiz in the right side of my screen in a social format ?

That's what i'm trying to do at:
http://62.59.33.55/moodle
guests wellcome
In reply to PeterJaap de Bruin

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Timothy Takemoto -
Dear Peter,
I had a look at two of your courses, the last two about experimental cars and the race track but I could not see any tests. The course with title "Toets" or tests, was not open to guests.

But in answer to your question, this activities linking modificating has nothing to do with putting a tests on the right side of ones screen. Linking refers to the conditioned display of modules dependent upon students having completed a predecessor. E.g. A teacher may set a quiz to be displayed only if students get 100% in an easier preliminary quiz.

As for what your want, I can only suggests showing the source code and copying the link to the quiz somewhere.   

I like the way you have removed the right hand column in your experimental car course.
In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by PeterJaap de Bruin -
I'm going to implement these kinds of tests now.
This is this what we call "grading" right ?

In a short time i will be able to transfer tests and source throughout the various moodle-sites we are using at at school. (http://lesnet.minkema.nl/moodle)

in the end i think i'll manage the source code, but for now i'm very into the "feel" of moodle.

thanks for ya time
In reply to PeterJaap de Bruin

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -
Hi PeterJaap,
I am happy for your interest in activities linking.

The usage you want to do is not clear for me. Is it possible to precise it?

That hack or patch is for testing only.

Please don't try it on a production system.

Bye,

Bernard
In reply to PeterJaap de Bruin

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -

Hi PeterJaap,

                     the courses format are defined that way. You may add resource and quiz  in the left side of the page. Right now, the linking process don't work in that format. But if you need it for testing it may be added with a minimal work.

Bye,

Bernard

 

In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Alvin Shaffer -

Bernard,

 

I started testing your modifications tonight. So far they look great, this is exactly the

 

functionality I was looking for to implement courses that cant be Breezed through. I

 

am looking forward to seeing the added ability to set the passing score for a quiz that the

 

activity locking will except, other that 100%

 

 

 

Great work!!!!

 

 

I will continue testing the mods for you and let you know if I run across anything

 

KUDOS!

 

Alvin
In reply to Alvin Shaffer

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -
Alvin,

thanks for the testing.
The field linkgrade already exist and it is loaded with quiz maximum grade. A small popup will be usefull to specify grade, activity visibility ( invisible or ghosted http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=2948#12929 ) and probably some other usefull options. I will add it probably next week.

Bye,
Bernard
In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -
Hi,
here is beta .02 with activities appearing ghosted evil ( dimmed ) to students when not accessibles.

Some messages corrected.

Thanks for your testing and suggestions,

Bernard
In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Timothy Takemoto -
Thanks Bernard. Will do. No suggestions about the missing icons I guess? I will ask someone here.
Tim
In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -
Hi Timothy,
I just "downgraded" to 1.1.1 and the admin icons disappears! Japanese is OK wink )

If you want to stay with version 1.1.1 for your testing I will find a fix.

It run fine on Moodle 1.2 development (2003092900)

Thanks for testing,

Bernard
In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Timothy Takemoto -

Thanks Bernard,

I will update then. I have been wanting the Glossary too, so it is time to at least try it out on my test site.

I am using Moodle 1.2 development (2003091800) on my production site, so perhaps I will try it out  there. No need to do a fix for my old version. 

It seems pretty stable. Stable enough to try it out on a spare course on my production site. What do you think?  

I will test beta .3 as soon as I can.

Tim

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -
Hi Timothy,
the fix is included with 0.3 beta.!

I will try it this week also with "real" students.

Bye,
Bernard
In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -
Hi,

here is beta .03.

Some messages enhanced with more information about predecessor and grading.

Messages translated in french and commented. (//for my personnal use approve )

For version 1.1.1 admin icons appears everywhere but in main site page. Only admins and teacher will notice it. ( I don't what to modify to many files blush )

Thanks for your testing and suggestions,

Bernard

In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -

Hi, 

    I made and error in pakaging version 0.3 ( erasing stupidly a  /  ! )

    I apologize if you loose time for that.

Sorry,

 Bernard

 

In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Alvin Shaffer -
Continuing to enjoy this hack!
 
In reply to Bernard Boucher

A theoretica defence of Activities linking - esoteric education.

by Timothy Takemoto -

My bosses, or one of them, expressed a desire for what they called "course scenarios,"
a function that is available in some Japanese software called webclass.
http://www.webclass.jp/

By that they mean a course with "depth", that one procedes into, being presented
with on thing after another to do, which once done allows one to go onto the next step.

This paradigm is probably what Martin has refers to as  the "rats in the maze."  
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=3031&parent=13313
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=1235&parent=4997
Moodle's all-on-the-surface (no depth) transparent layout is very intentional. 

So, to recoop, why would anyone want "linking," "scenarios" "depth"?

1) A pointed out in the threads above, some computer scientists have a dream in which they hope they will be able to force students do homework like rats in a maze. That is what I and my bosses are after. Yes, very definately yes. I am proud my desire to make my students do homework like rats. In this desire, I would like to stand up and be counted. (okay, so I am a bit ashamed, otherwise I would not be so pushy).

But this is not only for economic reasons. I think that I used to be a constructivist (socialist?) that hated the rat's maze makers (right wing?) but now I am a sort of "wet" or liberal. I want to do both, interact and make mazes.

2) I think that there is something good about mazes. First off, it seems that my students like mazes. Some sort of masochistic tendency to want to be a rat in a maze, to want to play a game, to want to be surprised, to compete for the sake of it, to be controlled, and to gain points for their ability to get to the end? In defence of mazes, images of game theory and ritual, Nash, Lacan and esoteric Buddhism flit through my head.

Here below is a post I sent to DEOS about the possible need for "esoterisim"  (scenarios = depth = concealment) in Education.

It seems to me that the purposes, that the greater part of school education is geared towards, is dumbing down or (more politely) "socialisation" and that students that are heavily dd-ed or socialised, get certain rewards, such as "good jobs," big cars and and desirable partners.

Now then, there may be some particularly hard nosed students that are able to accept that the "content" of what they are is relevant only as 'pumping iron for the brain,' so that then can prove how much they can brutalise themselves (or "train their mind"). However, most students want to believe that the learning content is useful, *not* just in the sense of being a means to get grades, jobs, and cars etc.

Hence educators are faced with a dilemma.

Leaving aside purist attempts to be Rudolf Stiener, swimming teachers, heavily vocationally oriented teachers and some language teachers; there are some teachers that are in the lucky position of imparting content that is useful to students but I would say that they are in the vast minority. Most of us are in the business of "socialising".

Accepting this fact, the dilemma for me is, in order to get students to study it seems necessary to *lie*. In order to help them to get all those consumer rewards (that most of them want), praise, and good grades, it seems necessary to lie, at least by omission, and encourage students to believe that the content they are learning will actually be useful to them.

This dilemma was brought home to me recently after auditing the class of a "very good", motivating teacher teacher. As well as having an excellent command of his subject, he also told his students how much he loved the subject and how much he wanted them to gain the same enjoyment that he gained from it. The students were very enthused and grade-wise, he gets very good results.

1) The small percentage of students likely to use and enjoy the content of what he was teaching are those that are like him, going to be teachers.

2) For most of the students the content is likely to be utterly useless to them.

However, by convincing the students that the content is useful/fun-to-non-teachers, he achieves what many educators, his superiors, and the students themselves view as good results. However, I don't think he was lying. He and many "good educators" seem to be oblivious to the fact that what they are teaching is only of use to people like themselves. They seem to be thinking "I am using and enjoying this, so the students can too," without considering the different circumstances that students are likely to face. My guess is that they are able to block the lives of their students from their minds, partly deliberately, and partly

What I am wondering is, is there a teaching theory or ethic, that recognises this dilemma, and looks at it full in the face.

I know of one: Esoteric Buddhism. It starts with the premise that it is necessary to teach pupils not-the-whole-truth, saving the the-whole-truth for later since fresh students would give up if you hit them with the big whammy at the beginning. I really feel that there is a need for a theory of "esoteric education."

In the extreme, an Esoteric theory of education might encourage teachers to tell their students that what they are learning is dreadfully important and so encourage them to study. Then finally, it might recommend that teachers get together with students, after the exams, and say "This was all pap, but you are going to go to an Ivy League school, and get fat pay checks, so let us celebrate." Doing this might be better than never telling them the whole-truth, in the manner of the "good teacher" mentioned above.

It might be argued that it is valuable, for the students, to never be told the truth of the inutility of what they are learning. Or that there is some sort of valuable epifany to be had when the penny drops and the student realises that the content of his or her studies had little utility other than to teachers. Even so, even if this is a theory book that should be kept out of reach of children, for educators at least.

Finally, on a more positive note, perhaps it is possible to have what I would call a theory of mythical education, where students too would be encouraged to engage in the process of equivocation, and make their own dreams and myths.

In this, more democratic approach, teachers would be encouraged to give students the techniques for learning, consistent with constructivist, "student centered" principles, including the ability to equivocate for themselves.

For example, consider the case of someone teaching French to a group of students that have little opportunity to use it. The teacher may

1) Overemphasise the opportunities to use and enjoy French blindly (the "good, enthusiastic teacher")
2) Overemphasise the opportunities to use and enjoy French, as a lie
3) Tell the students the boring truth about the lack oppotunities to speak French, that there are innumerable opportunities, but they are very unlikely to be realised. Then instruct the students in ways of overemphasising the likelihood of these opportunities materialising for themselves. There is nothing particularly insidious about this. It is sometimes called "Image training," and the techniques are varied. Just hanging a poster depicting France on ones wall, reading something about France, seeing some French films. All these things may be encouraged by "conventional" teachers, and this mythical education only puts a new spin on them. E.g. the purpose of as making a penpal abroad is not "to practice French" (the amount of practice will in fact be miniscule) but create the sentiment, the expectation, the myth that one will have the opportunity to practice French. The purpose of
this education would be to provide students with the mythmaking skills required to enable the students to dumb themselves down, in the recognition that his is what they really want to do.

This sort of theory needs to be founded on a philosophy which recognises the  *utility* and healthiness of non-truth. I am thinking of Lacan's view of the mature self (as misrecognition) and Neitzsche's appraisal of truth

Friedrich Neitsche 1876 The Birth of Tradegy
http://www.geocities.com/thenietzschechannel/bt.htm

Timothy


 

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: A theoretical defence of integrity in education.

by John Gone -
Hi Tim,
First of all, I admire your courage for admitting that you don't always agree with the prevailing attitude of those around you. Unfortunately I have a serious dis-agreement with your opinion on the subject.
Most of the questions you've asked require you to ask a few more of yourself. Do you know any young people? Do you have a relationship with any young people that is built on trust and honesty? Can you think of any young people who look at you and know that you are a man who values truth for it's own sake? Can you put yourself in a position of trust and authority and manipulate those young minds and not feel as though you are cheating them?
In my opinion, as an under-educated citizen of a very small planet, what your students need more than anything else is honesty and an example of integrity. Hurry, don't wait in this, integrity exists in each of us but a finite amount is given to each of us when we start this journey. When yours is all gone you will be the first to know it and everyone else will discover your loss soon afterward.
I don't know what circumstance has led you to your present situation but it is a very, very important position. You have an opportunity to reach out to young people and teach them how to be valuable to themselves by giving them an example of how to learn what is important. What is important? The truth, above all else. They see right through the bs anyway.
Is it not possible to present them with your questions and let them form their own truths about these same questions? Give them an insight into your dilemma and allow them to make the choice? If only a few of them then seek your lessons for what they may gain and a few more go on to seek knowledge for what they may learn is that not the more noble goal? The undecided will at least be left with some valuable questions.
Tim, for some reason your dilemma made me sad. I don't feel sad very often but this is a sad dilemma you have. I would be very sad to learn that you have much in common with teachers everywhere.
What the world dosn't need is more mazes and more manipulation of the truth for someone elses gain. And if the students aren't gaining by this manipulation then who is, exactly?
Social constructivism, to me at least, is the art of teaching and learning based on our experiences and the experiences of those who've gone before us. Looking at our present situation I would say this is probably a good idea. Funny how experience and history is unable to support manipulation and deception to any great degree for an extended length of time... use the force, Tim, Use the Force!

John
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to John Gone

Re: A theoretical defence of integrity as life

by Timothy Takemoto -

Dear John,

I like asking questions of myself, I am afraid, so thanks for your impassioned suggestions. I am sorry I have made you feel sad. I find what I had to say too sad: "Tragic."

First of all, in answer to the questions I should put to myself: I don't know many people well, and fewer that are "young" enough to be my students (only one comes to mind). In my last post, I was questioning the value of truth. I was not suggesting that one should be an all out liar, but also that perhaps one should not be entirely honest, especially with oneself.

Bearing this in mind, your questions about whether I have relationships built on "trust and honesty," or whether there are young people that "know that I am a man who values truth for its own sake" seem to be wide of the mark. If it is the case that truth has its limitations, then we would do well not to base our relationships entirely on honesty, or to value truth for its own sake. And if there is something "better than truth", such as "life" for instance, then what does "cheating" mean? Perhaps it would be cheating (in one sense) young minds to tell the the truth of the situation in which they find themselves?

John writes
" What is important? The truth, above all else. They see right through the bs anyway."
I am not sure why you say that the truth is important above all else. I find that my students do not "see through the bs anyway".

I am not sure of the meaning of "integrity" here, but it I would like to think that it is my "integrity" that leads me to question the value of truth. But before, I hope, you stop reading in disgust, perhaps you have already, I am not as much a facist as I may seem. The next paragraph is meant to be a brag.  

Drawing on Martin's definition of social constructivism (linked!), with which I entirely agree,  
"Knowledge is strengthened if you can use it successfully in your wider environment." 
Again following Martin, I would like to emphasise the word "use" here, and go to considerably lengths to facillitate the discovery of the useful-ness, and facillitate the use of the knowledge that I attempt to impart (English language proficiency).  I do this in my "communicative approach" lessons, through introducting the only means I know of allowing real-world communication in English,  and also have started to make efforts to set up a translation agency stafffed by students (which would give a whole new meaning to those translation excercises that so many students been made to do). I create materials based on the my translations of the magazine written for students for students about student life. My last three sets of homework were to write recommendations of best in local town information, and jokes (both of which I hope to recycle into classroom materials) and to find a friend in another country. I was lucky enough to get a mail yesterday which read "I don't know how to express my joy in English, so in Japanese, I have just found my first penpal!.." And that was after I spent my Saturday afternoon judging a student speech contest, arranged by the students. End of brag.

However...I am besieged by other questions. What percentage of my students will use English? What percentage of those that try hard to learn English are motivated by unrealistic estimations of its utility? Should I be honest with these students?  What proportion of my students would study if they were aware of the utility of what they are learning? What is the utility of most academic subjects? What right, on the one hand, have my employers to set academic (and not necessarily utilitarian) targets? And, on the other, what responsibility to I have to see that these are met? What motivates my students - is it only utility? Do they like tests? Are they motivated by them (yes)? What right have I to encourage them to see through this bs? What percentage of my students may be catapulted to a level proficiency wherein the knowledge I impart actually becomes useful, if I use "bs" in its various forms? And even taking into account this, round-about-way-to-truth, is this enough to justify the use of the bs and the maze? At the end of the day, I ask, does some of the utility of academe lie in way it encourages people to loose sight of truth, in a fairly pleasurable, and socially adjusted way? Is society, is life truthful? 

John writes
> Is it not possible to present them with your questions and let them form their own truths
> about these same questions? Give them an insight into your dilemma and allow them
> to make the choice?

In my post above, I mentioned something called "mythic education." It is probably not the right word (perhaps "image training" is better). It was an education in which I share with my students the awareness that they may be involved in a lie, AND that they should do their best to decieve themselves. And teach them ways of decieving themsleves, games they can play, ways of making their own fantasies. And again, I ask myself whether this too may be "cheating" my students: "coming clean" only to save my conscience? And whether the best teachers are either those that have succesfully decieved themselves?

> Funny how experience and history is unable to support manipulation and deception to any
> great degree for an extended length of time.
Here, I am not sure I would agree. And here lies the nub. What if life, as we live it, in society, is tragic?  What if it requires us to lie?

This may be a pretty tortuous way of justifying the use of testing or "extrinsic motivation" in education. Perhaps...better suggestions would be welcome.

Tim

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Moodle as Maze

by Timothy Takemoto -

In answer to my own question...

Don Hinkelman suggests as more moderate way of justifying the use of quizes here with which Martin agrees here, as a "fun" "motivating," "first step."

Perhaps I should be diplomatic and agree. I almost agree. But.... if quizes were fun and motivating then I would not need the wonderful Moodle.

This page is a collection of quizes in Japanese and this is a quiz software and forums and chat rooms lots of ways of using English particularly penpals, and many more to provide my students with use of english. If I want to provide quizes, as fun, then there are pages and page of them on the Internet. If I want to provide chat and forums and ways of interacting, then there are pages and pages on the Internet. Resources likewise. I have mountains of great recourses. However, in my own experience only penpals (the most utile/realistic interaction) provides sufficient interest to promote the participation of some of my students. None come to my forum. Few come to chat with me, from out of their own motivation. I also stock the local reading room with reader books that I like and recommend. Few students (last semester 2 students) take the books out.   

All this changes if I evaluate, of course, since all my students want to graduate. And I do evaluate any participation in all the above.With my blog and the help of some other teachers here, I am able to provide some of the most interesting resources, opportunities to interact, in all modes and channels.

The reason why I came to Moodle is for its ability to put my "rats" through a maze. If I wanted interaction, reality, student-centered materials, I would and could get them elsewhere.   

Moodle, with its user verification and evaluation provides, the framework for a maze. Moodle is nearly there! Nearly at the point at which its developer may not have wanted to reach.

But whatever the creator's intentions, that is why I am here. That is why I need Moodle. I don't need Moodle for its interactive forums. Better that my students join external forums. I don't need its ability to provide resources, better that my students find their own, with my guidance, that interest them. I need Moodle for the possibilities of control. 

I like to think (that means I am not sure) that putting 'rats through mazes' is good. And that the creator and I should be proud of our ability to provide that service, as part of the process that our academic institutions provide.

So, for the reasons above, I say no to out-and-out constructivism. I am a wet. We, as educators, should control too.  It is good that Moodle is maze. Bring it on.

Tim

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Moodle as Maze

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Thank you for the long explanations of your thoughts, Tim - your point is made. I'll just point out that your own focus (teaching English to Japanese students whom you have in face classes already) is a very particular case from which it may be unwise to generalise to all of online learning.

Moodle is open source. You are free to use it and modify it as your needs require, just as I am free to set my own development priorities according to how I see their importance in the whole scheme.

I can only assume your many long posts recently are an attempt to manipulate those priorities - I have long ago stated I'm not against activity locking as a feature, just that it needs to be done right, and that there are things that need to be done first. A lot is currently going on in Moodle development that may not be apparent from your current perspective.
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Moodle as Maze

by Ger Tielemans -

OK, you can open the classroomdoors, burn the blackboards (No Martin, the chalkboards), break down the walls, and give students the freedom to start a rich learning life..
It is for a GOOD TEACHER difficult to accept that students will start to invent the wheel again, spoiling so often precious time...  AND that are the students that at least move and try during groupwork.. 
How long will it take before the parents and the board will reconstruct the old final-exam-situation?
(I see again the ICT-examples around me.)

Lets take another dream example: In The Netherlands portfoilio is HOT in education: give a student an electronic bag to put in all his splending learning results and he will proudly show it to everyone and improve the content more and more: Nothing wrong with this dream, but reality is HARD:
I took these outcomes from the KALAMAZOO-website. (before they got a sponsor)

- students do not put effort in the bag, unless they get grades for it
- students do not improve products that passed the (teacher-)check
- students say that it only helps students that do it on their own already
- teachers from other classes do not take your portfolio-teacher serious
- the portfolio has no value: you still have to do a final exam before you get your certificate

I then illustrate this situation with this cartoon (Sorry for the rats)

Of course, Portfolio is a good idea but it does not work without the guiding hand of a teacher, lots of managing work for him, even when he does managing by exception: but his helper is good old Moodle: Lets students fill-in wish-lists, ask them to start with activities on that list, monitor all that in Moodle, make overviews in Excel and help them during their process, help them evaluate and reflect on the difference between wish and reality...so help them grow..

I went to University in the seventies: Maslow (hierarchie of needs), Rogers (Learning in freedom), Papert, Russian psychology (Vygotsky / Dutchman: Van Pareren), John Lennon (Imagine) Pink Floyd ("we do need no education"), Allende (The third way) were our heroes. American behaviorists and our professors (even the s-o-r men) were at our faculty the bad guys: Skinner (programmed instruction) and even Gagne were masters of the evil power.

So dreams enough, but now back to reality: how can you help your students to take control over their own (learning-)life. And like the montessori teachers You have to guide not ione but a herd of students.. TRUST? of course, but a slightly modified old Dutch saying is:

TRUST IS GOOD, MONITORING IS BETTER

If you find ways to monitor a herd of students in their selff-choosen learning adventures, you can give them feedback and help them to make better choices the next time: students learn from their mistakes, so create situations that can provoke mistakes, that's not lying: If you can create an environment where they can make only small mistakes and then feel they sweet taste of succes:
You give them a great time!!

I now reread a book from Gagne: conditions of learning. I look at it in a complete different perspectiv as 30 years ago: he gives me nice ideas for a better Moodle..

Reminds me of a joke: Gagne and Merrill are discussing discovery learning.
OK, says Gagne: lets go on a discovery trip: I set the hiden goal, you choose teh equipment.
Well, says Merrill, where do we go: It makes a difference if we go to the Northpole or Hawaii.
I am not allowed to tell you that, it is discovery learning...

So how can Moodle help to organise and construct a rich and inviting learning setting for students, and how can it help us to monitor all these students who will jump like froggs in all directions in the created Moodle-learningspace.. (Sorry for the froggs)

I am afraid Timothy has a point about lots of students, just working for SHORT TERM rewards..

(The cartoon says: "And at the end they have to DO some multiple choice tests)

  

Attachment maze.jpg
In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Moodle as Maze

by Timothy Takemoto -

Thank you for your response Martin,

I agree that the situation that I am in is a particular case. I do not mean to manipulate your priorities. 
Perhaps I would like to influence the general theoretical stance of the Moodle community, a little.Or widen the theoretical stance a little.

While I am not aware of its precise nature, I have no doubt that a lot is going on at the moment in Moodle development. What little I am aware of, seems like a lot.

Tim

In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Moodle as Maze

by Athena Winchester -

I'm just glad to know that this idea is in your mind, and we just need to have patience to wait for it to come out.  Besides it's FREE!!!  Can you say, "looking a gift horse in the mouth"??  I'm just glad you care enough about education that you are providing this wonderful script!  Besides, if this kind of thing is needed enough, count me as one that does, then someone, somewhere, smart enough to hack it, will do it and then upload it here.  Maybe Martin can even have it as an "add-on" if someone does create the hack.  smile
Blessings,
Rev. Lady Athena

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Maze as Metaphor

by Tom Murdock -
Tim, friend, even if we agreed 100% on your role of education, I think I would be worried about some of the language you are using to explore and explain it.

In the past two or three days, in a forum of educators who are very keen on developing better and better practices for themselves, you've equated (with metaphor) students with rats. You've also described teaching as a kind of lying. I think the language that you are using to describe good intentions is creating a liability. It is tough to reply casually to messages when the language employed within them leaves you scratching your head in confusion.

I think you are trying to say something important about teaching by using those specific metaphors (they don't seem accidental), but at first (and second glance), the root of the intention is not clear.

Maybe more dialogue between some of us about education and metaphors might be useful, but perhaps we need to create a discussion elsewhere because the conversation doesn't seem to have everything to do with Moodle or its goals. Hey, I know some great software that might facilitate such a conversation! big grin

best,
Tom

p.s. Anyone have any server space for EDUCATION AND METAPHOR: a philosophical and practical discussion about goals and means?

p.s.s. I also recognize the way that moodle.org does inspire a person to want to "test drive" a lot of "gradually shaping" ideas. There is a creative dialogue here that doesn't happen in many faculty rooms.
In reply to Tom Murdock

Re: Maze as Metaphor

by Timothy Takemoto -

Dear Tom, John and Ger

Since the questions of appropriateness has been raised, I think that perhaps I should take this thread to a more appropriate spot. It was my fault for starting it here. Please see the thread "Moodle philosophy,"  (Started by Martin) here below.
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=2802
I will link back ot this forum in the hope that people come and see your excellent posts. I particularly like the cartoon.

Tim

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: A theoretical defence of integrity as life

by John Gone -
Hi Tim,
Perpetual bliss would eventually pale if not compared against something less, occasionally, so no matter really a little sadness as it triggers introspection.

In reply I will try to address your specific points.

"In my last post, I was questioning the value of truth. I was not suggesting that one should be an all out liar, but also that perhaps one should not be entirely honest, especially with oneself."

I think you can't try to deceive others until you,ve learned to try to deceive yourself. Anything less than the truth is deception. The mess we're in at present is due to our attempts at deceiving ourselves. These attempts at deception are futile, of course, as nobody really believes that bs is going to prevail as an answer to anything. To even attempt to quantify what is an acceptable amount of deception, in any circumstance one finds themselves, is an attempt at deceiving oneself. This can not be done successfully, and everyone knows this. How can you question the value of truth? A lie is a lie is a lie. Look around and tell yourself that a little deception is OK. Part of the problem may be that a lie, if quantified, looks different to all who measure it's size. Any lie, to me, is a big lie, to someone else maybe irrelevant. Young people need to be exposed to people that don't think that deception is OK as a means to an end. One needs to be entirely honest with oneself if they are to learn anything on this wondrous and precious journey we are all on together. In my opinion that is the most valuable lesson you can teach anybody, anywhere. Too much of our world is already built on a foundation of shifting sand and it's beginning to show.

"If it is the case that truth has its limitations, then we would do well not to base our relationships entirely on honesty, or to value truth for its own sake. And if there is something "better than truth", such as "life" for instance, then what does "cheating" mean? Perhaps it would be cheating (in one sense) young minds to tell the the truth of the situation in which they find themselves?"

That's a very big if. Those who go through life seeking the truth are rarely deceived. You must know what the truth looks like if you are to recognize it when you see it. The deceivers are only deceiving each other. Truth has no limitations and deception is finite, the truth always surfaces and deception always dies a miserable death. Life is meaningless without truth so truth has a value equal to life itself. We all know this and this fact is inescapable, conscience offers no reliable escape. Many try, many die.

"I am not sure why you say that the truth is important above all else."

What could possibly be more valuable?

"I find that my students do not "see through the bs anyway" "

Oh, but they do. You've just learned to deceive yourself and possibly had a hand in teaching them how to practice deception, after all, they've made you believe that they don't see through the bs.

"I am not sure of the meaning of "integrity" here, but it I would like to think that it is my "integrity" that leads me to question the value of truth."

Integrity, as I define it, can't exist without truth. One who doesn't value truth, for it's own sake, likely doesn't value integrity enough to define it.

"And again, I ask myself whether this too may be "cheating" my students: "coming clean" only to save my conscience? And whether the best teachers are either those that have succesfully decieved themselves?"

Teach them how to seek the truth, and the value of truth, to save their conscience. Your conscience is not their responsibility. Their conscience is your responsibility. You're the teacher. Better yet, watch them, really watch them, and observe the honesty that is obvious in the way they act with each other. The student has just become the teacher of a very valuable lesson. Constructivism. It's only after we teach them to decieve that it becomes difficult to detect this honesty.

"- John "Funny how experience and history is unable to support manipulation and deception to any
great degree for an extended length of time."
- Tim "Here, I am not sure I would agree. And here lies the nub. What if life, as we live it, in society, is tragic? What if it requires us to lie?"


What tragedy? Life is full of wonder and beauty and fun and laughter and love and optimism and anticipation and too many other positive gifts to list here, fill in the blanks. The tragedy manifested in our society comes from the manipulation and deception perpetrated on us by those who've gone before us and felt it was acceptable to serve their own needs over ours. We're learning to question the results of what we've experienced and are adjusting our expectations for the future. As we make these adjustments we are creating new expectations and new experiences. Constructivism. We are not required to lie. There is no nub.

Mazes, games, quizzes etc. are tools. Exercises. Life is an exercise. Constructivism. The intention can be positive or negative. You're the teacher, make these tools serve a positive end. A mirror can destroy or enlighten. The only difference is the subject in the mirror.

We have entered an era where the truth, without caveats, is required to allow us to survive. The ultimate test of evolution. Will we be strong enough to survive the weak? Will we be strong enough to accept our responsibilty? We will, for one truth is stronger than many lies. Use the force...

The students you are influencing are very important to me. We're all sharing the same world.

I don't wear rose coloured glasses and yet my world is full of roses... hmmmm?

John

In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Timothy Takemoto -

Hi Bernard,

Now thanks to your mending my database, I am back on line. I have installed the activities linking beta 3 and it is cool! The ghosting especially.

I added the lines to the database. Assuming this was necessary, it would be very nice it if it were not neccesary, since it is scary to change the database. (What if I bodged it up?)

One thing that I am particularly concerned about is whether changing the database will effect the backup/restore. I hope not.

There is still an extra "move to here" link that should not be there, after the last resource in each section.

It is really nice that when one clicks on a resource that is dependent, it takes you to a page that says "You cannot access this item until you have viewed: " however on the next line it says "resource" whereas on the main course page there is the name of the particular resource that they must view in brackets. So if it is possible to name the resource on the main page, then it would be nice to see it named on "You cannot access..." page.

Other than that it seems to work fine.  I will use it on my students next week.

I will set a reading comprehension question with two layers in that they must first answer a really easy quiz just to test if they have read the passage, before going on to see the homework quiz, which will include various questions about the passage.

I hope that this gets included in Moodle some time soon. The only other worry is, what happens if one of the files that I am changing is updated.

Tim

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Timothy Takemoto -

Dear Bernard,

I have installed beta 0.3 all and I was ready to go ahead and make a precedent-pretest to prevent all those that would would answer my (linked) test randomly.

But then I realise that the autolinking to the glossary featute, that I really like, seems to have disappeared. My guess is that the wonderful new Bernard Boucher version of "resource/view.php" does not include the glossary autolinking?

I had set use of the glossary as one of this weeks tasks, so I had better go and put resource.php back to what it was before, despite my desire to set pretests.

So, I spoke too soon.
I hope that this gets included in Moodle some time soon. The only other worry is, what happens if one of the files that I am changing is updated.

Thanks for all this though.
Timothy
Takemoto

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -

Hi Timothy,

                  I just retest it and it seems to work fine even if the predecessor is a glossary.

But the inverse is not true because only resource and quiz are linkable at this time.

( http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=2948 :  1 - At this time, only quiz and resource modules may be dependants ( or hidden or locked  or linked ) of one other module.( that will be enhanced later! ) )

My version is Moodle 1.2 development (2003091800)

What version are you using?

Do you need to link glossary to something else? ( it is easy for me to add glossary in the next version and correcting messages and using lastest cvs files )

Thanks for testing,

 

Bernard

 

In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Alvin Shaffer -

Bernard,

Any more thought given to allowing a grade selection for the linking (ie 80% instead of 100%) for the hidden resourse to become viewable??

look like a way to do this now is to set your quiz grade to the "pass grade you want" in order for the resourse to become usable. Once you build the quiz and save it, go back and edit the quiz grade section to the actual grade you want the quiz out of. You linkgrade database entry will stay set to the first grade and not change, allowing you to have a grade that is not 100% of the quiz

In reply to Alvin Shaffer

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -
Hi Alvin,
your thinking hour between your two posts ( I received 2 by emails )  was successfullwink.gif You create a hack of the hackcool.gif

I didn't program a more usefull user interface. When needed, I modify manualy the field linkgrade of the table course_modules with mysqladmin.

Your trick is easier to do!

Thanks for testing and tricking,

Bernard


In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Ray Kingdon -
Hi Bernard

Thanks for pointing me to this thread. I've got the linking working fine. Just a couple of questions:

I seem to be able to link more than one activity to a single predecessor, that's great but it's not clear to me from the readme file that that is allowed. Is it allowed? (it seems to work OK big grin )

On my system (1.2 development) the student does NOT see the linked activity at all (until it's predecessor is "fired up"). The readme implies the linked activity is dimmed. Is the documentation lagging behind the reality?

This is a really useful feature.

Ray
In reply to Ray Kingdon

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Bernard Boucher -
Hi Ray,
yes you are able to link many activities to the same predecessor because the linking information is stored in the activity record not in the predecessor.

My version is Moodle 1.2 development (2003091800) and each linked activity appears dimmed to the students until it's predecessor is "fired up".

May be you din't find the lastest version "dimmed" in the philosophical part of the thread wink.gif
Last week I had to check my photograph on the first post of the thread to be sure I was at the right placebiggrin.gif

If you already have the lastest version please let me know i will try to fix it. You may have to tell me your moodle version. ( with the date )

Thanks for testing,

Bernard


In reply to Bernard Boucher

Re: Activities linking ... in meantime for testing only

by Alvin Shaffer -
Maybe you sould start a new thread for your next release, this one sure is "complete" smile