I will be installing and using Moodle for the first time. It will be used school wide starting small and building to 300 users over the next 3 years. I have a new Mac Mini with 1.83GHz Intel Core 2 Duo and 2 gigs of RAM. I have the following 3 installation options I think.
1. Do a full load of Moodle on Leopard client.
2. Run Moodle4Mac using MAMP or MAMP Pro and secure it.
3. Dump Leopard and run linux on the box and do a full install of Moodle.
My questions/concerns are in the areas of speed, reliability, and ease of installation and maintenance.
a. Moodle4Mac is easy but how is its speed compared to the full install. How do I secure it (using MAMP or MAMP Pro) if speed is not an issue?
b. Does anyone have a definitive answer wether using Leopard client for the OS overcomes some of the speed issues mentioned on this list in regards to using Tiger?
c. Would running linux on my mini over come all speed issues in the future.
Finally if I choose one of the about options (MAMP secured) for simplicity and later want to switch to full install or linux for example, how portable is the installation/data if I would switch.
Karl
If that's all it's doing then I would run Linux on it - you know where you are then.
I'm not convinced it's an ideal machine. It ain't a server. It's not going to have a particularly advanced disk system for example.
I would sell the thing on evil-bay and get a cheap server off Dell personally.
I'm not convinced it's an ideal machine. It ain't a server. It's not going to have a particularly advanced disk system for example.
I would sell the thing on evil-bay and get a cheap server off Dell personally.
Mac mini is fine on small scale but won't cut it for your final load unless you get a farm of them.
If you stay with OSX, consider using Tiger instead of Leopard, at least for now, and instead of playing with securing Moodle4Mac (speed is not an issue), just install all components yourself. It is neither that much more work nor complicated.
Moving data between installations is not a big deal.
If you stay with OSX, consider using Tiger instead of Leopard, at least for now, and instead of playing with securing Moodle4Mac (speed is not an issue), just install all components yourself. It is neither that much more work nor complicated.
Moving data between installations is not a big deal.
I took Howard's advice and put the Mac Mini to use in a different task. I am now hoping to build a new box for Moodle using a server motherboard and accessories from newegg. I have started a new thread to ask my new questions that have come up as I try to configure the right hardware for our school.
Please chime in on "Using Moodle: Final Specification Help" if you have any more detailed suggestions.
I want to do it right the first time if possible.
Please chime in on "Using Moodle: Final Specification Help" if you have any more detailed suggestions.
I want to do it right the first time if possible.
I have not heard of any significant change in the way Apple's OS X in Leopard addresses MySQL. In the past, the Darwin kernal has not allowed MySQL to be handled directly by the core, resulting in significant speed loss, as compared with Linux, which directly addresses it. In addition, it is tricky to set up a PHP accelerator with the Mac. If you notice in my step by step instructions to install Moodle on Mac 10.4 client, I did not attempt to install the accelerator. Accelerators can increase speed by factors of 3x - 10x.
Conclusion: I love Macs but definitely choose Linux for a Moodle server.
Conclusion: I love Macs but definitely choose Linux for a Moodle server.
Yep,
I started to write a new installation guide for Moodle on a Mac OS X 10.5 Server.
http://docs.moodle.org/en/index.php?title=Step_by_Step_Installation_on_a_Mac_OS_X_10.5_Server
For the most important problems I have got a solution. The missing GD library can be installed from entropy.ch ... the configuration is really simple. Please read the guide and send comments.
Ralf
I started to write a new installation guide for Moodle on a Mac OS X 10.5 Server.
http://docs.moodle.org/en/index.php?title=Step_by_Step_Installation_on_a_Mac_OS_X_10.5_Server
For the most important problems I have got a solution. The missing GD library can be installed from entropy.ch ... the configuration is really simple. Please read the guide and send comments.
Ralf
Hi Ralf,
Thanks, for adding that. A great guide on 10.5. It will be very useful for those who already have a Mac server.
Have you heard any news on the OS X kernal problem with MySQL? I just did a search and could not find anything new. Especially I could find no changes with pthread and machthread in 10.5. So I think we have to assume that the 10.4 issues with MySQL still continue. Here is some background. http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2520&p=5
In short, Mac 0SX performance with MySQL can keep up with Linux with 1-2 users (yes, one or two users), but nosedives with 3,4,5 users. I have 300 concurrent users in my school, so it is absurd to consider it. It is clearly an OS problem, not a hardware problem. The Darwin kernal in Mac OS adds several shells or thread layers between MySQL, while Linux allows MySQL to directly address the core. Result is 2-5x slower overall webserver performance.
I think on your 10.5 install guide, you should point this out, and if someone has not already bought a Mac Server, they should avoid it. Macs with OSX are great for applications (I own three!) and possibly as a computer lab machine, but not as a Moodle server until they remove the shells and thread layers that hurt MySQL. Does that make sense?
Thanks, for adding that. A great guide on 10.5. It will be very useful for those who already have a Mac server.
Have you heard any news on the OS X kernal problem with MySQL? I just did a search and could not find anything new. Especially I could find no changes with pthread and machthread in 10.5. So I think we have to assume that the 10.4 issues with MySQL still continue. Here is some background. http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2520&p=5
"The difference between the PowerMac running Linux and Mac OS X Server is absolutely striking. Mac OS X server shows better performance going from one to a second connection (and thus thread) because the second CPU steps in and helps carry the load. After that, however, performance completely collapses and stabilizes at around 50 queries per second."
In short, Mac 0SX performance with MySQL can keep up with Linux with 1-2 users (yes, one or two users), but nosedives with 3,4,5 users. I have 300 concurrent users in my school, so it is absurd to consider it. It is clearly an OS problem, not a hardware problem. The Darwin kernal in Mac OS adds several shells or thread layers between MySQL, while Linux allows MySQL to directly address the core. Result is 2-5x slower overall webserver performance.
I think on your 10.5 install guide, you should point this out, and if someone has not already bought a Mac Server, they should avoid it. Macs with OSX are great for applications (I own three!) and possibly as a computer lab machine, but not as a Moodle server until they remove the shells and thread layers that hurt MySQL. Does that make sense?
I have run moodle several different ways on a mac without os x server. I have done installs both on xserve hardware and desktop machines. The xserve is a fast, efficient and reliable beast but moodle can be served well on any hardware. All of my recent work is on newer Intel hardware. Your ahrdware and software combination will vary greatly depending on your needs which is primarly a function of number of users and what kind of processes you need to run. In my case I often have other products running on the same machine... blogs wikis and gallery2 which I tend to install as non-moodle instances for special projects
examples that work:
Secured MAMP pro (missing some components that are hard to add including SSL)
Ubuntu server edition (with gnome GUI) as the only os.
and my new favorite...
Ubuntu server edition (with gnome GUI) as a virtual host under VMware fusion. This is the easiest to configure, fast and totally portable if you change machines in the future.
Buy loads of memory and fast drives!
examples that work:
Secured MAMP pro (missing some components that are hard to add including SSL)
Ubuntu server edition (with gnome GUI) as the only os.
and my new favorite...
Ubuntu server edition (with gnome GUI) as a virtual host under VMware fusion. This is the easiest to configure, fast and totally portable if you change machines in the future.
Buy loads of memory and fast drives!
I have headed the advice of the list and built a Linux server.
Which Linux flavor is your favorite? I am not an expert on any of them but there seems to be lots of expert help available.
I also have a choice between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, would this impact Moodle performance?
Which Linux flavor is your favorite? I am not an expert on any of them but there seems to be lots of expert help available.
I also have a choice between 32 bit and 64 bit versions, would this impact Moodle performance?