General questions

General questions

by Rory Barrett -
Number of replies: 5

Hello Moodle Users

I am the Head of Mathematics at Macleans College in Auckland, New Zealand (www.macleans.school.nz). I have had a lot of experience over the last fifteen years or so with hypercard, VB, Delphi and more recently with HTML and java applets. You can see some of my work  at

http://www.nzsecondaryschoolmaths.co.nz/

I need to set up a new site and have decided moodle is the way to go. I have some general questions which are below. I think they're technical so I have put them in this forum:

(i) Is it necessary to have xamp installed before installing moodle or will installing moodle automatically install mysql, apache and php ? Yesterday I installed xampp.

(ii) If you are going to use moodle are you restricted in your choice of web host. Are there specific approved moodle hosts or can any be used ?

(iii) I presume it is safest to get a moodle site hosted professionally ? It would seem to me that if this is not done there would be huge amounts of time spent  learning about web security etc.

I could go on and on however if these questions could be answered it would be a start.

Rory Barrett

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Rory Barrett

Re: General questions

by Richard Enison -
RB,

(i) No, it is not necessary to use xamp, but it doesn't hurt. You could install MySQL (or one of the other three supported database servers), Apache (or IIS or another web server) and PHP separately, just as long as the requirements are met. See http://docs.moodle.org/en/Installing_Moodle#Requirements. There are automatic installers that would install all four automatically, such as the Windows and Mac packages available at http://download.moodle.org/, but the Windows package, at least, is not recommended for Internet servers. It is for installing on your own PC for practice, testing, etc. Now that you have xamp, you can use a generic Moodle download to complete the installation. Be sure to follow the installation instructions (http://docs.moodle.org/en/Installing_Moodle).

(ii) Absolutely not. You can use any commercial web host you want, or use your own (your college's) server, as long as the requirements are met (see (i) above).

(iii) Yes, professional hosting is safer. Probably the safest would be to use a Moodle Partner (http://moodle.com/hosting/). It is also the most expensive. So if you are more interested in safety than economy ...

RLE
In reply to Rory Barrett

Re: General questions

by Mark Hilliard -
Rory,
we host Moodle for many K-12 schools in the US and have used Windows and Linux with MySQL DB. Linux and MySQL has by far the largest user base in Moodle and is the most stable and scalable solution. Another advantage is that bugs are fixed in Linux/MySQL much faster (due to larger base)

You don't say how large a "concurrent" user base your server must support, but for smaller numbers 15-30 concurrent users a decent desktop server (2 to 4 Gb RAM, Newer dual core CPU, and fast SCSI drive 80 - 300GB should be enough. Mirrored if possible) This is not an expensive server if you must buy it yourself.

Most professional IT people here recomment setting up the major portions of Moodle (e.g. the PHP, Apache webserver, and MySQL Database separately if you have the expertise, but you really need to know the components well to do this. If you have much less technical expertise a nice integrated options is the Edubuntu linux platform. It includes a Moodle distribution that many people say is simple to setup, and the simplified linux kernal is based on the Debian linux that is known for its stability. Many people have set this up in less than an hour on newer standard equipment. (Don't try it on older DELL PowerEdge webservers, they use a RAID card that does NOT work with UBUNTU!!!!!) The Edubuntu linux is often recommended in these forums. If you are at a university, you should have some staff in other department with at least some Computer science expertise they should be able to help you with the Linux - Moodle setup.

You can try Moodle on Windows 2003 server as well, but Apache 2.x and PHP under windows 2003 has a bad track record. You MUST get the right versions of the components to make it work. If memory serves me right PHP v 5.2.1 is known to be a very stable release that works well with a later versions of Apache Web server possibly v 2.4 or 2.5+ and a newer MySQL 5.x.x Look are in these forums for successful platforms. The VERSIONS are absolutely critical to success. Several people have used Microsoft's IIS v6 with PHP as an ISAPI module (don't do IIS and PHP as CGI process it is too slow).

If you decide you have to host be find out how much control you have over the MySQL and PHP setup with HOST. To run a successful Moodle you need to performance tune the MySQL as your number of users grows and If you share a hosted MySQL server and CANNOT change the MySQL tuning parameters your Moodle may not scale. Worse, many hosting sites are now virtual and don't tell you how much dedicated RAM you get, one big company I called in the USA adverstizes Moodle support all over but will admit (if you ask them firmly...) that they only give the low end Moodle host servers 256MB of RAM this I am worried is far too little to be effective given PHP's memory hunger. so ask lots of questions. Good luck and look over these forums well there is lots of hard-earned wisdom here, problem is it is spread out in bits/pieces all over! Good luck and be sure to ask around your college for help on Linux too

Mark H.
MPls, MN
In reply to Mark Hilliard

Re: General questions

by Richard Enison -
MH,

That's all very interesting, especially the part about the hosting company advertising Moodle support. Some of our friends in Western Australia would probably like to know which company that is, because that sounds an awful lot like a Moodle trademark violation!

RLE
In reply to Richard Enison

Re: General questions

by Mark Hilliard -
Richard,
I used "support" generically, the language on their big website, lists Moodle, along with several other open source apps like Joomla, etc. as apps that "can" be installed on their hosting hardware. I didn't see a claim for "moodle partner" anywhere, but the implication is there until you ask more questions.

You seem quite experienced technically Richard. Have you ever worked with Moodle in virtual machine settings? I only started reading about VMware type solutions a few weeks ago for Windows/Linux and it was suggested that since the OS was reduced to a bare minimum in VM, the RAM and CPU cycles were much more efficiently used... But, as I mentioned the hosting company admitted that each low end "machine" got only 256MB RAM. Do you have any experience or knowledge of how this small amount of RAM would perform. I am assuming the VM would strip out all unnecessary services (which in Window is a LOT) but what performance would such a VM version of Moodle provide. Any experience or information on the matter? I will be talking to a lead tech at a virtual college in MN, USA soon to find out how they use it.

Mark H.
Mpls, MN USA
In reply to Mark Hilliard

Re: General questions

by Richard Enison -
MH,
  1. It is my understanding that one does not need to use the phrase "Moodle Partner" to violate the trademark. Advertising that one does Moodle Hosting, Moodle Installation, Moodle Support, etc. should do it. Whether listing Moodle along with other applications as being usable on their server(s) rises to that level I don't know, not being an attorney. Probably not.
  2. Yes, I have a wide variety of s/w experience, but not with VMware. Speaking of trademarks, I wonder whether Diane Greene and her co-conspirators in Palo Alto are old enough to remember the operating system with a similar name that ran on IBM mainframes a number of centuries ago, and whether they have permission from IBM to use the name. That is something I do have experience with, so now you know how enormously ancient I am. Shhh, don't tell anybody! wink
  3. My experience with Moodle, PHP, and MySQL is about a year old. I learned the second and third in support of the first.
  4. I'm not really a big expert on performance data like you are talking about. I mainly write and debug (my own and others') programs.
RLE