A Stable Example of Moodle Somewhere?

A Stable Example of Moodle Somewhere?

by Brian Donohue-Lynch -
Number of replies: 3

I am direclty familiar with one of the "big name" CMS's and familiar with many of the other competitors,  and have been regularly surprised by how much "fixing" and "tweaking" and "updating" the end users are suppose to accept as a normal part of their use.  With at least the one I now use in my classroom teaching, you have to be very particular about which browser you use, which version of java is installed (can't be the latest, so you have to find the older version somewhere), what else the end-user has running on her/his computer, whether there is a full moon (I made that last one up...but.....)

But in fairness, I have to say that I am getting the same impression with Moodle.  I have done a fresh installation of it on a Linux system, my third such engagement with Moodle since it first started to be developed and available, and it seems like an endless engagement with forums and troubleshooting just to make sure things don't fall apart when you try out a new feature or when you try to get an existing feature to work properly.

Is this the state of the art of CMS's and of Moodle included?  I am not asking this to bash.  I am so invested in working with others to use this technology; I do faculty development, I explore new uses for older technologies and for new ones, I use these things in my own teaching, I present workshops and papers on these things.   Am I missing the stable, reliable, steady instances of Moodle usage somewhere?

Please take my question in the constructively-critical spirit it is intended.  I love the pedagogical and community-built philosophy behind Moodle; I enjoy working with Moodle and its community of users and developers; I continue to look at its potential, and suggest it to others for their consideration.  This is where my question is coming from.

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In reply to Brian Donohue-Lynch

Re: A Stable Example of Moodle Somewhere?

by Anthony Borrow -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Brian - Hopefully you don't mind a little friendly sarcasm ... there was a post about Moodle 1.0 being released that was bug free and completely stable; however, it was posted on April 1st and was a bit of a joke. The basic idea was that Moodle 1.0 basically did nothing, had no features, etc. and was thus free of any corruption. I think part of the challenge for LMSs (learning management systems) is that education happens in so many different ways. The software makes a few common things available but then everyone wants things customized to work they way that they think. I found Moodle 1.6 to be pretty stable and even Moodle 1.8 has been pretty solid (IMHO). Now with 1.8 there is more power with roles which of course was a major new feature and thus a lot of questions in the forums and obviously some bugs. I also think that part of open source is having the freedom to customize (and thus introduce your own bugs into the system). I think by and large folks understand Moodle more deeply, are more aware of its capabilities and limitations, and thus get into more issues. My experience with non-open source products is that you just have to learn to live and adapt to its limitations and bugs and find workarounds. So there has been some discussion recently on the Moodle forums about stability. A lot of energy has gone in to developing and implementing new features and improving things. Adding new code and features increases the complexity of the program and the likelihood of more bugs and thus less stability. I for one have been pleased to see the development; however, I think that enough folks are starting to ask "is it worth it?". There is a sense that folks just want it to work even if they can do less with it. It is a constant balancing act and I believe that Moodle has been leaning toward new features and product development without overly sacrificing stability. I know that some institutions install Moodle and do not update it at all during the academic year. If a user has a problem, they search the forums and find out what is happening. In my opinion it beats waiting on hold for a tech person who reads from a list of canned responses that I could have found out online anyway. So I think some instability is to be expected whenever one relies on technology - even Moodle. Peace - Anthony
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In reply to Brian Donohue-Lynch

Re: A Stable Example of Moodle Somewhere?

by Michael Penney -
Many problems are caused by webhosts that aren't set up specifically for hosting Moodle (or other dynamic database based web applications). Most webhosting firms are set up for hosting static web sites (HTML), few of them are configured for hosting dynamic "Web2.0" applications such as Moodle, Drupal, Postnuke, etc. Often these hosts provide tools that are not designed for working with large applications (for instance ftp interfaces that work fine for a few KB of uploaded HTML but fall apart when one tries to upload multiple MB applications. Folks also often try to manage their dynamic web application using consumer grade cable and DSL connections that are "broadband", but not really designed for transferring large amounts of files or large files.

OTOH, the commercial systems I'm familiar with (Blackboard, WebCT, eCollege,etc) won't allow themselves to be set up on webservers that are not specifically configured for them (or the installers configure the webserver). As you pay 10s of thousands of dollars just to try these systems out, that they are frequently as buggy as a free application you loaded on a $5/month webhost speaks volumes about where the money goes.

Another issue that causes problems in both the commercial and open source systems is that it is far easier to get resources to build new features than it is to get resources for testing and bug-fixing--meanwhile testing and bug fixing often take more time than developing new code. New features are exciting, but testing, fixing, refactoring, is not. An interesting read related to this subject is Inside MySpace it talks about the race between features and stability in Web 2.0 application development. (http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1540,2082925,00.asp)

This is all complicated by the fact that the Internet was designed for displaying static text files reliably, it wasn't designed for the read/write web, immediate UI feedback, nor for distribution of audio and video, these things have all been tacked on, and they do surprisingly well, all things considered.

In any event, the best bet for stability in any LMS is knowledgeable staff or (in the specific case of Moodle) hosting with a Moodle partnersmile.
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In reply to Brian Donohue-Lynch

Re: A Stable Example of Moodle Somewhere?

by Nicolas Connault -
I second the comments made by both Anthony and Michael, and add my own. You mention having difficulties "when you try out a new feature", or "when you try to get an existing feature to work properly". I assume that not every existing feature has let you down, so could you be more specific and let us know which ones have worked, and which ones haven't? Also, which "new features" are you talking about? Official Moodle features, or 3rd party plugins and modules?

How much are you ready to invest into Moodle? If you're willing to spend some $ you can follow Michael's suggestion and have a Moodle partner host and maintain your Moodle installation. They will take care of those pesky issues that have prevented you from enjoying Moodle in the past. Since they're familiar with the common problems users face, they can save you "duplicated frustration" so that you can focus on the pedagogy and leave the tech side to them.