How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Peter Ruthven-Stuart གིས-
Number of replies: 15
Plugin developers གི་པར
Hello,

In previous versions of the Forum activity module (e.g. 1.6.2) it was possible to set up a Forum so that only the teacher could rate (grade) posts.

Here's a screenshot of the Forum grading setup in 1.6.2 (how it should be?):

Forum grading in 1.6.2

and here's a screenshot of the Forum grading setup in 1.8+ (a bug?):

Forum grading setup in 1.8 (a bug?)

Having searched this forum is seems that others have a similar problem:
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=71396
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=60334

Is this a bug, or are there some changes that can be made elsewhere (e.g. in roles) to allow only teachers to grade posts, and then to allow students to see only their own grades?

Update: I have just setup a Forum in a Moodle 1.8 system using the above settings (Allow postings to be rated? is checked). I then logged in as a student and noticed that it was not possible for the student to rate students, which is what I wanted smile, but this then leads to the question, how do you allow students to rate postings?
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In reply to Peter Ruthven-Stuart

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Martin Dougiamas གིས-
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Students/Teachers are just two of an infinite possibility of roles now in 1.7 and later (which means the simple menu is now impossible).

So these settings are now found under the "Roles" tab on that same page.

Roles -> Override roles -> "Student" and then turn features on and off as you please.

I know it's not as simple, but it is very flexible and covers all the different combinations people had been asking for. I'm keen to find better user interface solutions if you think of any.
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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Peter Ruthven-Stuart གིས-
Plugin developers གི་པར
Martin,

Thank you very much for your reply.

"I'm keen to find better user interface solutions if you think of any."

Here's a simple suggestion. How about adding the following to just below the 'Allow posts to be rated?' check box:

To control who can and can't rate posts click on the Roles tab, and then on 'Override roles'.

or, even better, again under the 'Allow posts to be rated?' check box, add a link to the Overide Roles page:

Note: the default setting is that only teachers can rate posts. Click here to override this setting (e.g. to allow students to rate).

Also, a link to a relevant Moodle Doc page would be useful. e.g.:
http://docs.moodle.org/en/Forum_permissions

Any way, I think the important thing in the Forum setup interface is to alert users to the fact that it is possible to fine tune things via the Override Roles utility. I guess this applies to other activity modules as well?
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In reply to Peter Ruthven-Stuart

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Ray Lawrence གིས-
What about a "Show capabilities" button something like the "Show advanced" button elsewhere. Before the activity is created this could display a read only version of the capabilities for that activity.

In addition to the "Save changes" button, include a "Save changes and set up roles" button which redirects to the assign/override roles page for the activity once saved. The Roles tab could stay intact at the top of the activity page for future visits to update the activity to save scrolling to the foot of the page.
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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Elena Ivanova གིས-

How about having 3 separate tabs, once you click Update button: Update, Assign Roles, and Override Roles?

This way, we will reduce the number of clicks needed to set, for example, whether students can start new discussion threads or not.

I would also name the tabs: Assign Individual Roles, Override All Roles (or Override Roles Settings)

And I still think that mostly used access settings should be on the Update tab right away as well (though interconnected with the Role settings for the individual activity).

So, decision if students can post to the forum, should be done on the Update tab, and this will automatically set “Start new discussions” for the student role to Allow.

What do think about this?

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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Art Lader གིས-
> Roles -> Override roles -> "Student" and then turn features on and off as you please.

That seems pretty clear, I guess. Thanks!

Two questions:
  1. Unless I give the teacher permission to do so, he/she cannot override roles, right? The admin can do that by default, but not the teacher. Or am I wrong about that.
  2. If I were to deny students permission to post to a forum, I could do this at the activity level or the course level or the site level? Or not?
Sorry I am so dim about roles, everyone. blush Thanks for any light you may shed on this little issue for me. (I have already upgraded to 1.8, by the way, in an attempt to force myself to get my head around roles by the start of school. Oh, the excitement of living on the edge!!!)

-- Art
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In reply to Art Lader

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Anthony Borrow གིས-
Core developers གི་པར Plugin developers གི་པར Testers གི་པར
Art - I've not been following this but when there is a clear, step-by-step procedure for setting up a forum so that the teacher only can rate the posts that would be great to have in MoodleDocs. Peace - Anthony
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In reply to Anthony Borrow

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Art Lader གིས-
If I figure it out, I will post it! དགའ་འཛུམ་

-- Art
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In reply to Art Lader

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Helen Foster གིས-
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Hi Anthony and Art,

Please note that by default, only admins and teachers can rate posts. If you wish students to be able to rate posts, then a role override may be used (see docs.moodle.org/en/Forum_permissions for the steps).

Further roles documentation and/or suggestions are always welcome! glimlach
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In reply to Helen Foster

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Art Lader གིས-
Thanks, Helen! This certainly seems clear:

By default, only admins and teachers can rate posts. A role override may be used to enable students to rate posts.

  1. Access the Assign roles page via the Roles tab in editing forum page
  2. Follow the "Override roles" link
  3. Select the Student role
  4. Set the capability mod/forum:rate to Allow
  5. Click the "Save changes" button
When I am logged in as a teacher (but not an admin), I do not see the "Override roles" link. So a teacher who wants this feature cannot normally do this, but he or she can simply ask me to do it, right?

Thanks,
Art
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In reply to Art Lader

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Helen Foster གིས-
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Yes, that's correct Art. smile

By default, only an administrator may override other roles. However, you may choose to enable teachers to override the student role - see docs.moodle.org/en/Override_roles.
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In reply to Art Lader

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Howard Miller གིས-
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You have to give the teacher(s) permission to override the 'student' roles, so that they can do this.

You can modify the 'student' role anywhere you like. If, for example, you did it in the course context it would apply to *all* forums in the post.

IMHO, this is a bit of a roles userbility nasty. It doesn't only apply to forums of course. I hit it with trying to stop students adding records to databases - same thing.

It not being dim - it's not obvious at all, which is a shame.
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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

John Isner གིས-
If, for example, you did it in the course context it would apply to *all* forums in the post.

Howard,
You are correct. If you want to limit the ability to post in a specific forum, the teacher must override the Student role in that forum context.

Now it gets interesting དགའ་འཛུམ་ Suppose you (the teacher) want some students to be able to post but not rate and others to be able to rate but not post. You will create two groups and assign to each one of them its own capabilities. But how? You only have one Student role to override in this context, so that's not a solution.

For this, you will need two appropriately-permissioned roles, sayCanPost and CanRate. Because only the someone with permission to Do anything (i.e., the admin) can create roles, you must ask the admin to create these roles for you. Then you can assign them to your groups. I call these "mixin roles" because by assigning them to Students, you mix them in with the Student role.

Now what if you want some students to be able to post, some to be able to rate, some to be able to view ratings, etc., etc., etc.

In general, if an activity has N capabilities that are normally prevented, you will need N mixin roles. Forum has 13 such capabilities, so in the worst case scenario, you will need the admin to create 13 mixin roles for forum alone. From these, a teacher can create 2**13 = 8192 distinct groups.
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In reply to John Isner

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Howard Miller གིས-
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To be fair,

pre-roles, you couldn't do that at all. Now you *can* even though blood will be coming out of your ears by the time you have worked out how to do it ལྕེ་ འབལ་
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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

John Isner གིས-
I'm not suggesting that it SHOULD be done this way. A better solution would be to allow others besides admins to create roles.

Currently, only admins (i.e., users with moodle/site:config and moodle/role:manage assigned at system level) can create roles. Teachers can only assign and override such pre-defined roles. As a result, there will be many scenarios in which the Teacher must ask the admin to create one or more new mixin roles. This is administrative overhead for the admin, and it doesn't scale (imagine a school with 1000 teachers).

Roles would be (a) easier to explain AND (b) more scalable, if users other than admin were allowed to create new roles. The role creation interface for such users would only show those capabilities relevant to the current context, just as we see in the current Override role pages. It would never show any capabilities that the user does not himself possess, preventing users from passing on greater privileges than they themselves possesses in a given context.
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In reply to Art Lader

Re: How to set 'Only teachers can rate posts' in 1.8

Dr. Nellie Deutsch གིས-

Hi Art,

How are you?

Now that you have upgrade to 1.8 maybe you can check out the evaluation surveys. I wanted to use it for the end of the year, but it failed to work.

Thank you.

Nellie Deutsch

http://www.building-relationship.com/education

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