i have had strange things happening since we upgraded to 1.8
some of the HotPot quiz' work but others don't
i can't see why !!!
any ideas
cheers Vin
happy golden week
i had had other XML 'issues' but have resolved thanks to Daniele Cordella's method
Thanks Vin,
I haven't seen that error before. It seems to come from your browser.
Please could you tell us the name and version of your browser. Also, if you "switched on" reporting of specific errors in your browser, please tell us about that too.
I checked on my Moodle 1.8 site, and there are indeed two "id' attributes sent to the browser, but on Firefox 2 (Win) and IE 7 (Win), I did not see the error.
The <body> "id" is not needed by the HotPot javascript, but is referred to in the CSS (stylesheets) definitions. In other words I don't think the duplicate"id" will affect the behavior of the HotPot, but it might affect the appearance.
I will investigate further and see if it is possible to remove one of those "id" settings. In the meantime, please could you give us more information about the browser which reports the error.
all the best
Gordon
P.S. Thanks for the holiday greetings!
I haven't seen that error before. It seems to come from your browser.
Please could you tell us the name and version of your browser. Also, if you "switched on" reporting of specific errors in your browser, please tell us about that too.
I checked on my Moodle 1.8 site, and there are indeed two "id' attributes sent to the browser, but on Firefox 2 (Win) and IE 7 (Win), I did not see the error.
The <body> "id" is not needed by the HotPot javascript, but is referred to in the CSS (stylesheets) definitions. In other words I don't think the duplicate"id" will affect the behavior of the HotPot, but it might affect the appearance.
I will investigate further and see if it is possible to remove one of those "id" settings. In the meantime, please could you give us more information about the browser which reports the error.
all the best
Gordon
P.S. Thanks for the holiday greetings!
Twin id attributes would make the document invalid XHTML, I think. The CSS can use the existing body id, presumably ("TheBody").
Cheers,
Martin
Cheers,
Martin
Hi Gordon,
thanks for the rapid reply
i was using Firefox 2.0.0.3
and if i use IE 6
i get this (screenshot)
other people (in France) have had the same problem and have been told the same thing ;)
i think i may just go back to 1.7
as whilst searching the forums i learnt how to to import lots of Hotpot quiz' in one go ;)
cheers
Vin
p.s. ah yes i remember Golden Week
thanks for the rapid reply
i was using Firefox 2.0.0.3
and if i use IE 6
i get this (screenshot)
other people (in France) have had the same problem and have been told the same thing ;)
i think i may just go back to 1.7
as whilst searching the forums i learnt how to to import lots of Hotpot quiz' in one go ;)
cheers
Vin
p.s. ah yes i remember Golden Week
I have just a few words of beware about all this : Against all what seems to be the "common sense of (computer sciences) history" XML IS NOT the so Holy Technology the global W3C consorcium would like we beleive in !!!
Just some recalls : till 1998 web and open source consorciums where driven by some idealists, cyber-explorers and far foreseekers. Now, they are largely controlled by top 40 of the Nasdaq companies representatives who have far no interest in Computer Sciences and Information Technology remaining accessible to newbees and common sense skill.
Conversely to all what has been the open source movement, "simple is beautiful", be "solid", i.e. applying the few rules of reliability : "be large with what you receive and strict on what you give", XML and XSL technologies renew with some form of Stalinisation of how information should be structured, tranferred, processed, organised, indentified. Schemas are nice for automated checking of document structure, not for human-negociated implementations. XML is nice for systematic, computer generated information serialization, not for human-skilled inventive technologies, and so on.
We just touch in that example the beginning of all what some excessive XMLization in Information Technology will bring to our tools : lack of real flexibility, excessive complexity, confuse and hyperverbose technological layer access, so that simple or little hacking will use far much time... and headakes.
Please do not fall into that known trap ! Please keep XML where it is really valuable : data exports and exchanges, complex document formats, cross-format transforms ! Keep it off our simple and pragmatic Web applications !!
Hi Valery
The X in xhtml stands for xml, so even the simplest possible well-formed web page is an xml file. What do you have in mind as an example of a "simple and pragmatic web application" that is not based in XML?
The X in xhtml stands for xml, so even the simplest possible well-formed web page is an xml file. What do you have in mind as an example of a "simple and pragmatic web application" that is not based in XML?
Hello again Vincent,
I have changed the HotPot module for Moodle 1.6, 1.7, 1.8 and HEAD (will be Moodle 1.9), so that use of the Hot Potatoes <body> id, "TheBody", is changed to the <body> id that Moodle uses, "mod-hotpot-view".
The modified HotPot module will look in the javascript and CSS of a Hot Potatoes quiz, and change all other occurences of "TheBody" to "mod-hotpot-view". Also, the string ' id="TheBody"' is removed from the <body> attributes tag.
There was one use of "TheBody" in the Hot Potatoes javascript - in the "RemoveBottomNavBarForIE" function.
The modified HotPot module will be available from the Moodle downloads page in due course (usually within 24 hours).
I hope these changes will stop the error, but please let us know how you get on.
thanks again for reporting this problem!
Gordon
P.S. on a cultural note, today is "Green Day" in Japan
I have changed the HotPot module for Moodle 1.6, 1.7, 1.8 and HEAD (will be Moodle 1.9), so that use of the Hot Potatoes <body> id, "TheBody", is changed to the <body> id that Moodle uses, "mod-hotpot-view".
The modified HotPot module will look in the javascript and CSS of a Hot Potatoes quiz, and change all other occurences of "TheBody" to "mod-hotpot-view". Also, the string ' id="TheBody"' is removed from the <body> attributes tag.
There was one use of "TheBody" in the Hot Potatoes javascript - in the "RemoveBottomNavBarForIE" function.
The modified HotPot module will be available from the Moodle downloads page in due course (usually within 24 hours).
I hope these changes will stop the error, but please let us know how you get on.
thanks again for reporting this problem!
Gordon
P.S. on a cultural note, today is "Green Day" in Japan
Hi Gordon
great
well now i now what i am doing this W/e ;)
Happy Green day !!
that is a new one on me
thanks again for all your work
v
great
well now i now what i am doing this W/e ;)
Happy Green day !!
that is a new one on me
thanks again for all your work
v
You're welcome Vincent.
Just to be clear, if anyone wishes to update the HotPot module in Moodle 1.6, 1.7 or 1.8, they should do one of the following:
Gordon
P.S. tomorrow (Sat) the Japanese will be celebrating is "Children's Day"
Just to be clear, if anyone wishes to update the HotPot module in Moodle 1.6, 1.7 or 1.8, they should do one of the following:
- EITHER update the entire Moodle site on your server to the latest stable build of your version of Moodle
- OR download the latest stable build of your Moodle version from the Moodle downloads page, unzip it on your PC and upload the "mod/hotpot" folder to your server
- EITHER update the entire Moodle site on your server to the latest stable build of your version of Moodle
- OR download the latest HotPot module from the Moodle "Modules and Plugins" page:
then upzip it on your PC and upload it to your server
Gordon
P.S. tomorrow (Sat) the Japanese will be celebrating is "Children's Day"
Excellent
Vin
p.s. i remember children's day : Fish flags and all
so the question is when is HotPot module day???
gambate !
Vin
p.s. i remember children's day : Fish flags and all
so the question is when is HotPot module day???
gambate !
HotPot module day, hmmm, nice idea 
I was able to do a lot of planning of the new Hotpot module and start programming during the Spring break, but the next big push will be in the summer break. In my mind, "HotPot module day", when the new HotPot module will be released, will be around August 31st.
Where the current module treats a single Hot Potatoes quiz as the basic entity it deals with, the new module will think in terms of a Hot Potatoes unit. A unit will be made up of one or more quizzes.
If you have used the Hot Potatoes masher you will know exactly what I am talking about, except I also intend to allow the ability to set conditions on each quiz which must be satisfied in order to attempt the quiz.
In fact, at any point in the unit, it may be possible for the student to choose from several "quizzes" to attempt next. If this is the case, they will be presented with a menu listing the choices.
The new module will use caching on the server to speed up the generation of browser content, and the sending of results from the browser back to the server, will be optimized too, because sending all the results of every button click has proved to be too heavy a load for some servers.
Behind the scenes the code which creates the browser content from the source files and templates will be broken up into PHP classes. When this is done it will allow for source files from quiz generation programs other than Hot Potatoes 6. It will be relatively simple to add the ability to use source files from older version of Hot Potatoes (especially HP5), but we can also add the ability to use source files from other very different applications such as Qedoc and ExamView (maybe).
Furthermore, the use of classes will allow the generation of output for players other than Javascript enabled PC browsers. It will be possible to write Flash players for PCs and pure-HTML players for mobile phones and out-dated or text-only browsers. I also intend to make Java or Flashlite players to make the interactive exercises available on the multimedia enabled mobile phones and hand held devices.
These new quiz players can use their own interface. They don't need to keep returning to the Moodle course page. The quiz player can send results back to Moodle, but retain control of what is displayed on the screen to the user. This means a completely new , non-Moodle, interface can be used will navigating around in the "unit".
Another crucial enhancement is the addition of a HotPot block, so that the links to start these new HotPots can be kept off the center column of the course page, if required.
The new HotPot module will do everything the current module does, but better, and it will allow many new exciting possibilities for adding interactive, engaging content to your Moodle course. It's mission will be to allow Moodle to administer content created with external quiz creation software.
Sorry, this post got a bit long, but "HotPot module day" is something I have been working towards for quite a while, and I really feel like it is going to happen!
all the best
Gordon
I was able to do a lot of planning of the new Hotpot module and start programming during the Spring break, but the next big push will be in the summer break. In my mind, "HotPot module day", when the new HotPot module will be released, will be around August 31st.
Where the current module treats a single Hot Potatoes quiz as the basic entity it deals with, the new module will think in terms of a Hot Potatoes unit. A unit will be made up of one or more quizzes.
If you have used the Hot Potatoes masher you will know exactly what I am talking about, except I also intend to allow the ability to set conditions on each quiz which must be satisfied in order to attempt the quiz.
In fact, at any point in the unit, it may be possible for the student to choose from several "quizzes" to attempt next. If this is the case, they will be presented with a menu listing the choices.
The new module will use caching on the server to speed up the generation of browser content, and the sending of results from the browser back to the server, will be optimized too, because sending all the results of every button click has proved to be too heavy a load for some servers.
Behind the scenes the code which creates the browser content from the source files and templates will be broken up into PHP classes. When this is done it will allow for source files from quiz generation programs other than Hot Potatoes 6. It will be relatively simple to add the ability to use source files from older version of Hot Potatoes (especially HP5), but we can also add the ability to use source files from other very different applications such as Qedoc and ExamView (maybe).
Furthermore, the use of classes will allow the generation of output for players other than Javascript enabled PC browsers. It will be possible to write Flash players for PCs and pure-HTML players for mobile phones and out-dated or text-only browsers. I also intend to make Java or Flashlite players to make the interactive exercises available on the multimedia enabled mobile phones and hand held devices.
These new quiz players can use their own interface. They don't need to keep returning to the Moodle course page. The quiz player can send results back to Moodle, but retain control of what is displayed on the screen to the user. This means a completely new , non-Moodle, interface can be used will navigating around in the "unit".
Another crucial enhancement is the addition of a HotPot block, so that the links to start these new HotPots can be kept off the center column of the course page, if required.
The new HotPot module will do everything the current module does, but better, and it will allow many new exciting possibilities for adding interactive, engaging content to your Moodle course. It's mission will be to allow Moodle to administer content created with external quiz creation software.
Sorry, this post got a bit long, but "HotPot module day" is something I have been working towards for quite a while, and I really feel like it is going to happen!
all the best
Gordon
This sounds fantastic. If you can manage all of that by August, you deserve a medal (and a few beers)!
Cheers,
Martin
Cheers,
Martin
Hi Gordon,
Wow!
believe me no one is going to complain about the length of your posts!!!
Vin
Wow!
believe me no one is going to complain about the length of your posts!!!
Vin
Wow! indeed. All of that sounds very cool.
From what you are saying, can one infer that the HotPot module might even be a replacement for the current Flash module?
JM
From what you are saying, can one infer that the HotPot module might even be a replacement for the current Flash module?
JM
Hi Josep,
> the HotPot module might even be a replacement for the current Flash module?
I hadn't thought of it in those terms, but it would be quite possible to create a small class, based on the "service" class detailed in the Flash module documentation, to receive and store the results so that a current Flash activity could be used as part of the "unit" in the new HotPot module.
Actually, the new HotPot module will pick and choose features from several other Moodle modules. As an overall concept, I will be aiming for something like the lesson module, but with each "page" allowing dynamic feedback, multimedia content and more than a single, static question. Using Flash players, I envisage it will be possible to make HotPot quizzes "secure", like the Quiz module, so that they can be used for tests. However, unlike the current Quiz module, the new HotPot module will not be limited to one image per question. The caching and returning of results will be inspired by what I have seen of the SCORM module. I also like the idea of being able to specify local file paths in the media URLs, like the latest resource module, so that large media files do not have to be constantly passing from the server to the clients.
What I feel is special about the HotPot module is that it allows teachers to use the content which they created outside of Moodle. When I am using Moodle, or demonstrating how to use Moodle, I always seems to me that creating content in Moodle is not as easy as I expect. I have to click-click-click around many screens. If there are many questions in a quiz, or many pages in a lesson, the interface becomes very full and, and soon after that, unmanageable. On the other hand, if I create the content using Hot Potatoes, TexToys, Qedoc or ExamView, it can all be done much more intuitively. What's more these external quiz creation programs have very nice quiz players which make the most of the features that were added using the editor. The goal of the new HotPot module is to administer these quizzes, using the original players, via Moodle. By using the external editors we minimize the teacher's effort in creating materials; by using the original players, we can maximize the learning experience for the students.
One final piece of the puzzle is how to make the HotPot module support itself. Open Source software is not free. Somebody is paying for it somewhere along the line. With this new HotPot module, I intend to provide an open-source version and a licensed version. The revenue from the licensed version will be used to pay for the development of both versions of the software.
At the moment, I envisage that the open-source version of the software will do what the current module does, with the addition of
The licensed version will additional provide
Of course, anyone will be free to create extra players, which they can make available to others, or not, as they see fit. For example, over the summer I will be working with James McCormack of Qedoc to create a version of the Qedoc player, which is written in Java, to work the new HotPot module.
Today is the last day of the "Golden Week" break, so rest assured that I'm unlikely to have time to write such long posts for the next 12 weeks
thanks for reading!
Gordon
> the HotPot module might even be a replacement for the current Flash module?
I hadn't thought of it in those terms, but it would be quite possible to create a small class, based on the "service" class detailed in the Flash module documentation, to receive and store the results so that a current Flash activity could be used as part of the "unit" in the new HotPot module.
Actually, the new HotPot module will pick and choose features from several other Moodle modules. As an overall concept, I will be aiming for something like the lesson module, but with each "page" allowing dynamic feedback, multimedia content and more than a single, static question. Using Flash players, I envisage it will be possible to make HotPot quizzes "secure", like the Quiz module, so that they can be used for tests. However, unlike the current Quiz module, the new HotPot module will not be limited to one image per question. The caching and returning of results will be inspired by what I have seen of the SCORM module. I also like the idea of being able to specify local file paths in the media URLs, like the latest resource module, so that large media files do not have to be constantly passing from the server to the clients.
What I feel is special about the HotPot module is that it allows teachers to use the content which they created outside of Moodle. When I am using Moodle, or demonstrating how to use Moodle, I always seems to me that creating content in Moodle is not as easy as I expect. I have to click-click-click around many screens. If there are many questions in a quiz, or many pages in a lesson, the interface becomes very full and, and soon after that, unmanageable. On the other hand, if I create the content using Hot Potatoes, TexToys, Qedoc or ExamView, it can all be done much more intuitively. What's more these external quiz creation programs have very nice quiz players which make the most of the features that were added using the editor. The goal of the new HotPot module is to administer these quizzes, using the original players, via Moodle. By using the external editors we minimize the teacher's effort in creating materials; by using the original players, we can maximize the learning experience for the students.
One final piece of the puzzle is how to make the HotPot module support itself. Open Source software is not free. Somebody is paying for it somewhere along the line. With this new HotPot module, I intend to provide an open-source version and a licensed version. The revenue from the licensed version will be used to pay for the development of both versions of the software.
At the moment, I envisage that the open-source version of the software will do what the current module does, with the addition of
- caching browser content on the server
- optimizing the sending of results back from the browser
The licensed version will additional provide
- HTML-only players suitable for use on mobiles and hand-held devices
- Flash players for the PC
Of course, anyone will be free to create extra players, which they can make available to others, or not, as they see fit. For example, over the summer I will be working with James McCormack of Qedoc to create a version of the Qedoc player, which is written in Java, to work the new HotPot module.
Today is the last day of the "Golden Week" break, so rest assured that I'm unlikely to have time to write such long posts for the next 12 weeks
thanks for reading!
Gordon
Hi Gordon,
Can I make one suggestion? Why not try and base ALL of the i/o between the exercise and the server on SCORM 2004? That way, your module will support ANY SCORM content that complies with the standard; for special types of content that you care about, and which perhaps don't use SCORM 2004 (such as HotPot 6 exercises, which use SCORM 1.2), you could provide a translation layer. From what I've seen on the SCORM module forum, SCORM 2004 support is still fairly rudimentary; you could join forces with those developers.
I hope you do find a way to bring in a revenue stream. We know from our own experience that Hot Potatoes would have ceased to exist three or four years ago without the revenue that comes from licences.
Cheers,
Martin
Can I make one suggestion? Why not try and base ALL of the i/o between the exercise and the server on SCORM 2004? That way, your module will support ANY SCORM content that complies with the standard; for special types of content that you care about, and which perhaps don't use SCORM 2004 (such as HotPot 6 exercises, which use SCORM 1.2), you could provide a translation layer. From what I've seen on the SCORM module forum, SCORM 2004 support is still fairly rudimentary; you could join forces with those developers.
I hope you do find a way to bring in a revenue stream. We know from our own experience that Hot Potatoes would have ceased to exist three or four years ago without the revenue that comes from licences.
Cheers,
Martin