Moodle in English: Moodle in UK

I am an ICT consultant in the UK, who has helped many schools pilot or develop the use of a Moodle VLE.

I dont know how aware of the issuses in the UK surrounding VLEs this site is so let me take a moment to explain.

The UK government has said that all students should have access to a learning plaform of some sort by 2008. This has led to a scramble by some very bug software developers to create VLEs, with a view to cashing in on the money being made available to schools.

I have for a couple of years now championed the use of moodle as a low cost, flexible and well supported VLE, with many plus points over the commercial products available in the UK. The recent BETT show was flooded with VLE providers.

Many of the schools and education authorities i am now advising are looking into the various VLEs, I BELIEVE MOODLE COULD BECOME A MAJOR PLAYER IN THE UK MARKET. To do this however Moodle must attempt to comply with the frameworks being put in place by BECTA,( the UK governments advisory agency for education amongst other things.). VLE providers try to get on the BECTA lists for VLE providers, this is a major plus point to get your VLE used by schools hwo often use only becta approved products and services. Is Moodle or a representative/ spokesperson for Moodle actively seeking information and positioning Moodle in the UK education Market. I am convinced Moodle is as good as if not better than most other VLEs ive seen and used, and wouldnt want Moodle to 'miss the boat' as it were.The schools i work with and are more than happy with Moodle, and word of mouth has meant i am helping more and more schools, however its the national picture i am more concerned with, and some of the noises coming from commercial VLE providers about limitations of Moodle in terms of support etc.

A further important point is whether moodle will work with the schools MIS systems, eg student data, to allow a simple transfer of data between the VLE(MOODLE) and the Schools data systems. This is a key issue for the future proofing of a VLE. Has anyone been working on this for Moodle? or know anything about plans to do so?

I really do not want commercial VLEs to get a hold in the UK.

Hope someone out there has some encouraging words.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Martín Langhoff - Monday, 29 January 2007, 5:06 AM

Have a look at the comparisons and advocacy forum, where these discussions are taking place. There's a paper published that claims very high penetration of Moodle in the UK (>50% in some segments!).

There's a lot to do and more hands and advocates are needed, but I'd say we have a chance...

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Marcus Green - Monday, 29 January 2007, 8:02 AM

"To do this however Moodle must attempt to comply with the frameworks being put in place by BECTA,"

Quite a few people consider it might be better if the frameworks could be changed. This issue has been debated quite a bit, check out the advocacy forums. Also have you been to a Moodlemoot?

Tried to get hold of you at Jo Ro a while back but was defeated by the phone (I'm based at Holgate and was at York College till about a year ago).

Marcus

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Bob Allen - Monday, 29 January 2007, 11:02 PM

I dont know how the tendering process worked but I know that Synergy learning did not know about the process.

I think we need to persuade one or more of them to approach BECTA and see if they can get on - I think from a conversation I had with Becta that it is a support issue which clearly is the focus of these moodle partners

I also think that Blackboard/webct are not on the list as well!!!

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Martin Dougiamas - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 12:09 AM

There's a few wierd BECTA pre-requisites involved like "companies must exceed a certain turnover" etc ... ideas which seem to be largely based in the old model of selling software.

Moodle is free and always will be, our business side is focussed on services.

I don't know how anyone can say support is an issue, it's the one thing we have in spades. Anyhow, we're aware of the issue and have been for some time, and a number of Moodle friends and advocates there in the UK are working on them as far as I know.

In the meantime all this doesn't seem to be stopping people using Moodle.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Phil Thacker - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 1:16 AM

I agree that it would be unlikely for Moodle as it stands to make it onto the exising Becta Lists, due to framework structure they have in place. This need not be a worry however as this framework has been challenged by some other commerial software companies at European level and I hear it is likely to be revised.

Secondly there has been a bit of a personnell 'shake up' as it were at Becta from what i understand and things may be changing.

The support I agree is far superior from Moodle than some of the biggest software/VLE players that I have had direct experience with as a Head of ICT. It frustrates me as the 20 plus schools I have helped and supported Moodle with asolutley love it, you need to just get them to try it.

Id also say that as I've become more well known in the North of England, other ICT consultants and software companies are approaching me wanting training or advice on developing comercial content for Moodles.

I am more than willing to help spread the word and develop Moodle at grass roots level, eg schools, But think the way forward is getting a greater acceptance at higer level, eg Local authority , advisor, goveremtnt.

I have provided a Moodle installation for an education authority and its advisors in all subjects , with the hope that they see the elegance of Moodle... Lets hope it works.

If I can get involved in Helping or promoting Moodle in a greater way than i do then please let me know. I dont mean to sound patronisin but does Moodle haveICT advisors from UK schools with real experience of teaching and using Moodles as well as installing and advising schools. I went to Bett and was disappointed that Moodle didnt have a higher profile especially focusing on primary and secondary schools. I accept that FE colleges or universities have experience of Moodles, but this is a different market. As i said I am beginning to establish a reputation fr somene who knows Moodle and how it can work in a primary or secondary school and would help or advise in I can.

Phil

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Martin Dougiamas - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 10:51 AM

One of our Moodle Partners focusses specifically on primary schools:

http://www.schoolanywhere.co.uk/moodle

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Phil Thacker - Wednesday, 31 January 2007, 6:18 AM

May i ask how hard it is to become a partner? I would love to be one. Does it cost money to become one?

What criteria are they, ive seen the summary on Moodle.com , however it seems a bit vague, and there dont appear to be any clearly defined criteria?

Do you have a policy for Partners and how are they selected, is the process transparent? Who decides who is approved.

Phil

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Marcus Green - Wednesday, 31 January 2007, 6:51 PM

Yes it costs some money (I'm sure Martin will probably give you the actual numbers). I believe one of the criteria is to contribute to the community and you appear to have started that by posting in these forums.

Usual disclaimer: Just a keen user nothing else...

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Martín Langhoff - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 8:16 AM

> There's a few wierd BECTA pre-requisites involved like
> "companies must exceed a certain turnover" etc ...
> ideas which seem to be largely based in the old model of
> selling software.

Are people referring to the list here... http://schools.becta.org.uk/index.php?section=re&catcode=ss_res_pro_bps_lp_04&rid=12904

I can't find where the pre-requisites are exactly

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Art Lader - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 12:23 PM

Hi, Martin,

I too do not know where to find the pre-requisites, but I was told a couple of times at BETT that the only reason Moodle did not make the magical list of ten (no course management system did, I was told) was that Moodle did not have a help desk built into it.

-- Art

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Dale Jones - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 2:24 PM

<sigh>
Wish they would make up their minds. Were they providing a spec for a Learning Platform or a helpdesk? These are different pieces of software serving different requirements. And if the helpdesk is entirely embedded within the learning platform and the learning platform goes down, what then? Where can you ask for help?

The functional and technical specs are here - I just looked through both and I don't see mention of a helpdesk though.

The important thing is that the LP is adaptable - if they really wanted to see Moodle having a helpdesk, they could come to my school and see the helpdesk knowledgebase that Year 7 (11-12 year-olds) have built within Moodle (using a glossary) for assisting each other with an unfamiliar piece of software. Or the "electronic handup" that we use Dialogue for (still).

If they wanted a large scale helpdesk, well...

"Moodle.org is my co-pilot".

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Miles Berry - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 3:25 PM

The Framework Agreements, and thus the list of 10 favoured suppliers, was about an integrated service rather than a particular VLE product. Atomwide (the ISP for West Sussex and Buckinghamshire, who run Moodle LA wide) made it through to the last 14, with their Moodle/Elgg based solution passing all the technical tests at 100%, thus at least in this implementation we know Moodle(+Elgg) satisfies Becta's requirements. Alas Atomwide didn't make it through to the final ten, for other, non-technical reasons. I'm pretty sure this wasn't about helpdesk support, which, of course, Atomwide would provide.

Most of the funding for "Learning Platforms" will be devolved, without ring-fencing, to school level - clearly most LAs/RBCs would like schools to buy in to their provision, but it's up to the headteachers - if they want to use Moodle, there's nothing to stop them doing so, and spending the money saved on other things. Moodle hosting companies, consultants and advocates would, IMHO, be better dealing with schools directly (and perhaps a few of the more enlightened authorities) than jumping through Becta's hoops, which have come in for some criticicsm from parliament, and are to be investigated by the EU competition people.

Furthermore, a school can specify that their VLE be open source in their Statement of Requirements under the Framework Agreements, any of the approved suppliers would then have to out-source the VLE component. That said, schools will lose much of their autonomy over ICT matters as BSF roles out.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Ray Lawrence - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 5:59 PM

The "Becta list" was a hot topic on the official Moodle stand at the BETT show a couple of weeks ago.... the availabiltiy of support beat it easily though.

The amount of enquiries that we receive from schools at Moodle Partner HowToMoodle suggests that, in many many cases, schools are not treating the approved suppliers as the only place to source their solutions.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Art Lader - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 7:52 PM

> in many many cases, schools are not treating
> the approved suppliers as the only place to
> source their solutions.

That was certainly true at the Edugeeks stand. I was told over and over again that this was the case.

-- Art

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Phil Thacker - Wednesday, 31 January 2007, 5:17 AM

I agree , schools would generally save money wherever possible. That was certainly the case when I had a budget and headteacher to answer to. Its the experts that seem quite thin on the ground. Schools generlly want spoon feeding the solution. They dont want to tweak and optimise things too much . They want the Moodle but also the advice and support. Thats what ive found anyway.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Phil Thacker - Wednesday, 31 January 2007, 5:13 AM

I agree that the BSF program may be a problem for Moodle and its chances. I doubt the ICT partners will implement an opensource solution. There is too much money and credibility at stake. They will be a large organisation to manage the VLE component, in my opinion.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Ray Lawrence - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 5:51 PM

They were in the ITT.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Phil Thacker - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 1:45 AM

Hi,

Never got your message at Joro, although commnication there wasnt brill. You in school now? (Holgate, not Archbishop Holgates) Oh i spoke to a female colleague of yours i believe, she was greating content for moodles i think.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Marcus Green - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 2:13 AM

The loverly Maggie Ross I suspect, an all round excellent teacher and wizard with flash.

I have returned to the real world, a well known purveyor of Card Protection Plans.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Phil Thacker - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 2:21 AM

Working for the company in York that does it? Name slipped my mind, although wentfor a look at their ICT.

I see you still keep your eye on the Moodle scene though.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Julian Whitehead - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 2:58 AM

I spent a lot of time at the BETT show a few weeks ago, looking at what the approved partners had to offer. I was not impressed at all from the VLE point of view. Most had clearly been tacked onto the MIS solution the company provided. Serco even refused to demonstrate the VLE section of their MIS, Facility (shame as the concept behind Facility is incredible).

Whatever the criteria are, sadly Moodle needs to get itself as an approved partner - not sure how, but there is a great deal of misunderstanding out there are regards how Open Source operates. People see something that is 'free' as sub-standard. This is clearly not the case.

As usual in the UK as far as ICT is concerned there are a lot of people who are on the cutting edge of using ICT as a tool for Teaching and Learning. Sadly these people tend not to be in charge of policy, as a result I am afraid the offerings from these Approved partners in the VLE department are to coin an unprofessional phrase - Pants!

However in their praise I saw some very very impressive Management Information Systems (MIS) - incidently not frmo SIMS. If the old addage that you get what you pay for is true - then Moodle will do very badly in the current market in the UK. Mainly because senior management in schools will refuse to believe that something as good as moodle can be free.

What these partners can also do that I am not sure the majority of 'us' want to is provide a smattering of content to get schools started. Again most of what I saw was sub-standard and had clearly been set up in haste for the BETT show.

Sorry this has turned into a general whittering, but to summarise.

Large software houses produce good MIS
Their VLE's are generally pretty awful
Moodle needs to break into this framework
UK schools are going to have pots of money thrown at them in the future
Moodle providers in the UK need to get busy.....
If Moodle is not to have an MIS integrated (not planned as far as I can tell), then it must have the ability to integrate with others.

Right time for tea...

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Michael Feldstein - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 4:19 AM

My company (Oracle) is working closely with the IMS to make the Enterprise specification truly plug-and-play for this sort of thing, rather than the current "kinda sorta works after lots of vendor-specific tweaks" mess that it is now. My colleague Linda Feng co-chairs the Enterprise v2 committee, which just had its charter approved. Oracle intends to provide draft v2 integration (including passing grades from the LMS back to the MIS/SIS) between PeopleSoft Campus Solutions and Sakai by the end of the calendar year. That integration will be a proof of concept for the specification but it will also be production-quality code that we intend to release to our customers in that time frame. D2L and Blackboard are also currently on the committee (in fact, D2L is co-chairing). We'd love to see the Moodle community move aggressively toward supporting the development and implementation of the new spec. Moodle is an IMS member; I'm not sure whether any of the community's representatives are currently participating on the v2 committee. In any case, the more the merrier.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Michael Penney - Wednesday, 31 January 2007, 10:34 PM

Hi Michael, regarding:

We'd love to see the Moodle community move aggressively toward supporting the development and implementation of the new spec.

IMS Enterprise for authentication and authorization is already standard in Moodle. On my wish list would be Oracle providing funding for both major OS LMS systems to fully support LMS E (with grades--which we already have alpha code for), etc.

Having the OS LMS with the most R1 mindshare and the OS LMS with the most real world use both support IMS Enterprise would really have an impact on the LMS landscape, IMO.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Michael Feldstein - Thursday, 1 February 2007, 1:22 AM

Michael, we're already working actively with Sakai on this. And while funding decisions happen above my pay grade, I can certainly say with confidence that we'd be interested in exploring ideas for how we can help the Moodle community with its efforts in this regard. (The grade integration is particularly interesting.)

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Julian Whitehead - Friday, 2 February 2007, 3:21 AM

This is all really exciting, and it looks like Moodle will integrate with our Enterprise IMS (Facility) of choice.

I just hope that the lovely people at Serco won't be as narrow-minded when they come to see us as they were at BETT.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Phil Thacker - Friday, 2 February 2007, 5:31 AM

As i understand BECTA is setting a framework with the major MIS players to determine what data, and the format that it should be in , is to be available from school MIS systems.
The data is then to be made available to other packages/ applications including VLEs like Moodle to increase interoperability. This is a key for Moodle to have a module or routine for this data import.
Does anyone have any information on the specs?

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Michael Penney - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 5:35 AM

Hi Julian, IMS Enterprise is there in Moodle 1.7:

yourmoodlesite.edu/admin/enrol.php

Seems to me that would at least qualify as it must have the ability to integrate with others?

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Sean Keogh - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 6:25 PM

We, as UK Moodle partners, entered an application, in conjunction with the Open Learning Partnership. We had the Moodle technical knowledge, they had the staffing levels, the financial background requirements, the knowledge of supporting Moodle for multiple organisations and so on. Between us I thought that would be OK. After all, BECTA originally approached *us*, not the other way round.

We never even received an acknowledgement of our application. Not a sausage. Not even a "Dear Moodle, thank you for your application, go away!"

Sean K

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Art Lader - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 8:53 PM

That is kind of odd, isn't it? Makes me wonder what's going on...

-- Art

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Re: Moodle in UK

by David Berry - Tuesday, 30 January 2007, 10:56 PM

A couple of points to make.

CLEO (which hosts Moodles for Lancashire and Cumbria schools) don't seem to be worried about Moodle not appearing on the Becta list. They seem to feel that the funding will still continue. The fact that some of the big players are missing from the list adds credence to this idea.

Secondly, the whole Becta approach seems flawed. I have been to my MP to try to get him to sign this EDM. I have also been assured that the Education minister will be receiving a letter asking for clarification.

Regards

David Berry

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Phil Thacker - Wednesday, 31 January 2007, 5:22 AM

Ive heard rumours of other Authorities advisng schools not to enter into VLEs with commercial companies as the Authority is going ot provide a Moodle.

I think Authorities may be an important ally of Moodle as they have the time to research the alternatives and investigate the open source route. And evidence suggests that Moodle is winning through in some cases.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Phil Thacker - Wednesday, 31 January 2007, 6:40 AM

Hi Art ,

I spoke to you at Bett, what feeling did you get from the show? Optimistic or not.

It was nice to speak to a real Moodle enthusiast.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by Jocelyn Chappell - Tuesday, 13 February 2007, 5:12 AM

Please consider the free and open source Software in Schools e-petition in which I am proposing:-

to ask the (UK) PM,
to promote the free and fair use of free and open source software in English schools.

I describe the reasons (as if you needed) and provide a small collection of related links in Special School ICT.

If you are of a like mind please feel free to sign the free and open source Software in Schools e-petition.

The PM's e-petition system is slow as of the last couple of days although it does seem to respond eventually - please use patient coercion. It has been in the news recently - such is the price of Internet fame.

Sadly, the petition will be useful for you to help the campaign (only) if you are UK citizen or resident or expatriate, or satisfy one of a number of other conditions that are made clear when you sign up. All would not be lost if you cannot petition the PM yourself as I am sure your English friends and relatives would be pleased to support the campaign.
If you are interested you can also check whether your MP has signed Early Day Motion 179 - Software in Schools (EDM 179) mentioned in other posts. Mine has

and was grateful for the pointer - yay.

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Re: Moodle in UK

by J Franklin - Friday, 16 February 2007, 9:11 AM

I've been saying this for a long time but I still don't think that others are really mentioning it, so I'll repeat it here again.

A major factor of Moodle (and any opensource software) is that it is freely available. This is not just a pure cost benefit.

Many people (myself included) first try a VLE by playing with their own installation and seeing what it can do. In addition there are now many many PGCE students using Moodle as part of their training - because it is free. This means that a school/LEA that uses Moodle has a much higher chance of teachers that actually know how to use it and experience with it.

Ultimately, teachers are unlikely to want to learn a second system/learning platform. Those which are already using Moodle when they move to another institution that doesn't are likely to install there own or request Moodle as a second VLE for the school.

All of this put together means that there are advantages for opensource solutions (in particular Moodle) over the alternatives.

There is no doubt that there is a lot of money going to be involved in this. But the force behind Moodle is huge. Already whole universities, schools and counties have adopted it as their long term solution. As this force grows it will then become more attractive for others (as the product improves and the feeling that it's a 'safe' choice).

It is interesting to note the recent statements by Blackboard - that it will not enforce it's patents against opensource solutions. This leaves some uncertainty for all the learning platforms - except for Moodle (and opensource).

Another point regarding the success of Moodle is that in general those that install and use it will either be early adopters that are sticking with it, or more able/well informed users of VLEs. As such, ignoring the ability of the learning platform/VLE, the users are likely to use it more creatively and to a superior standard. This will impress more than the product itself - and encourage others to use it.

Finally, the momentum of opensource grows by the day. As more and more opensource product get into schools via various means it gives a growing acceptance at all levels that you don't need to pay for good software.

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