Lounge

This is not the first project that Moodle partners have contributed that integrates with commercial software, and will certainly not be the last. For example, last year the HarvestRoad Hive document management system was integrated into Moodle. Very soon Moodle itself will run under both Oracle and Microsoft SQL servers. Many in the coommunity welcome the fact that Moodle plays well with other software, both commercial and open source.  There are too many really good commercial applications that folks want to see working more closely with Moodle to just ignore this.  

I welcome the fact that Moodle plays well with other software, especially the microsoft servers, one in the eye for people I know who still think that OSS can be ignored and microsoft products are the obvious choice for software 

As far as Remote-Learner's affliation with Elluminate goes that is publicly displayed on our website and has been for the past three years. This in no way implies an endorsement by Moodle of Elluminate, any more than the previously mentioned integration projects with commercial software would. I don't think Martin will ever endorse things in this manner! However most Moodle partners do offer a range of services in support of e-learning. Some of those services include best of breed in certain categories like say live meeting technology.

That's all fine, my point was that a newbie on these forums wouldn't know of the relationship between Remote-Learner and Elluminate and I think (and I say this gently) its always better to spell these things out clearly.  I wasn't saying you have been trying to mislead us in any way - I agree your affiliations are publicly stated.

We are in fact looking at other integration projects like commercial student information systems (e.g. Banner, DataTel, PowerSchool etc.) because folks are asking. That is the criteria I think that some Moodle partners use to "choose between development" as you would say, when looking at what needs to be done.

Getting Moodle to integrate with commercial software is very important, especially when satisfying clients needs.  However, IMHO there is a potential conflict of interest when  the partners say 'we are ploughing back some of what we make into  Moodle development' -, and then that development is to link up Moodle with other commercial software that the partners are already affiliated with. 

Hope this is ok and that my post did not come across as just a plug.
It isn't a plug but I think it leans that way, if you'd have made your affiliation clear I think I'd have felt less disquiet.

We put a lot of effort into this for those in the community that use Elluminate and just wanted everyone to know. Justin Filip with Open Knowledge Technologies is the creator of this new module and it should be available for download here at Moodle.org shortly. Because you must be an Elluminate client to use this feature support will be through their organization.

Great and best wishes for further integration, work and projects.   I hope I'm not down to the splitting hairs level of criticism in my posts on this, I think that Moodle's relationship with commercial software and commercial companies such as the partners is potentially very powerful but that the relationship is tricky.  If people begin to perceive (and unfortunately it is perception that is important, the facts often get lost in opinions) that Moodle has an unhealthy relationship with commerce then that will strongly affect its reputation.  So I thought the subject was worth airing.

Rich

Oh dear,

We won't be engaging Don Quixote in conversation as he has already disappeared as a participant.

Hi Andreas,

What a great surprise!  Today only one of the maths teachers trained by you contacted and informed me that he left his employer and started his own company.  Though Moodle is labeled as free, it, potentially, is a viable commercial product/service.  Unlike MS moodle is flexible to forge alliance both with free and priced third party software. 

 Moodle can be everywhere – in bazaar and in cathedral.

Moodle is like water and it must irrigate the poor man’s field as well as rich man’s vast area of operation.  Today water is privatized and commercialized.  The mega merchants exploit water (in India Coke and Pepsi leased rivers and water resources for their business) without realizing that they are not the creator and water is a common community resource.  For every one there must be an equitable opportunity to use, to sell and to make money in a fair and just manner.  From my country Mahatma said that it should be for every one’s need and not for any one’s greed.  

In the earlier discussion we  had a reference to what you mentioned – greediness, cheating and unmorality.  As a professor and business advisor I am exposed to business practices (both good and bad) in 14 countries ranging from off shore banking to petro chemicals. 

The story of Moodle is different.  It is good to view moodle as a merchandise.  In India all the three top companies – Wipro, Infosys and Tata use moodle.  Whenever they need help they ask me  with an assumption that there is no need to pay me because it is free software and Moodle partner is there only to help.

I did my best to do business with enterprise and they expect in turn moodlle as an enterprise and not a free wheeling community or a foundation.  We are not having suitable case studies or best practices from moodle to convince the enterprise to go for Moodle.

In my country we have a location having a board saying that this is the place were we have the world record for heaviest annual rain fall and we have the water problem.  If you remember once Martin almost decided to close the business uses course, It is only few of us persuading him not to close it with a promise that it will be flourishing.  

What is the current status of business use?  Why it is not vibrant?  If partners are the chosen few and they have to have all the cake and eat it then why we need to have business use course?  Why we are not able to create a cooperative of small business with encubators?

Andreas, I am not crossing sword with Bryan or elluminate ( I still have a business relationship with him and he is persuading me to bring SPARK to the moodle space as an opensource)

My concern is that the business uses must be a sanctuary for the small business with a slant towards affordability and availability to less affluent.  The other day there was a query for hosting and I though a cheap hosting may be helpful and with that intention I mentioned about my company.  I got a snub saying that only moodle partner will do that work and a moodle partnership already in the offing.  Hence I must mind my own business.  It is a pity that Moodle is like a Janus – one side open community and on the otherside high walled convent with tyrannical mother superiors. Ultimately the request was for a free web hosting from a region where dollar is dear.  I gave the free space and the problem was over.

Now the moral is that Moodle should not be hijacked.  Moodle should not be in the hands of American North European cartel alone (unfortunately the whole elearning control and manipulation remain with them)

Moodle is like light. Air and water – it is common.  Capitalists make money out of them.  However it should not be under the control of a syndicate. There must be room for everyone following the dictum of “unto the last” - silver coin for every one.

Andreas as DQ you are intriguing - disappear and appear as you wish exploiting the vulnerability of Moodle.  We have many differences but have one thing in common – we are the fallen angels – ex moodle partners.

I love to here your views often and wait for your frequent visit to the lounge.

Thanks for commenting my post.

Nagarajan