Re-awakening this issue, it happens that the bug tracker being worked on for the Google Summer of Code project is not going to quite be all that we want it to be for tracking Moodle bugs (although it will still be a VERY useful module for a lot of other things).
So while that project continues apace, we can look fresh at a solution for Moodle developers to use, without being restrained by Moodle compatibility. It obviously makes sense to try and piggy-back on an existing community. Here are some of the major contenders in my opinion (all free for us):
I'd love to hear some pros and cons from those of you who've used any of these or others to help us come to some decision within the next couple of weeks.
Those who have read my previous posts on this subject will know I am a Bugzilla fan. We use it here at the OU and it works well for us.
More tellingly, the Mozilla community use it, so we know it works for a large open source project, and has tools to support the kind of processes an open source project needs. For example driving releases. And many other people and projects around the world have chosen to use bugzilla, which can only add to our confidence in it.
It is not perfect. I tend to be very picky about the tools I use, and there are a few things I wish were slightly different, but the number of annoyances in Bugzilla is much lower than in most tools I use.
However, Bugzilla is the only bug database I know, so actually I am not much use to this discussion. I am sure bugzilla would be good enough for our needs, but I would be quite happy if someone who knows more can suggest something better.
More tellingly, the Mozilla community use it, so we know it works for a large open source project, and has tools to support the kind of processes an open source project needs. For example driving releases. And many other people and projects around the world have chosen to use bugzilla, which can only add to our confidence in it.
It is not perfect. I tend to be very picky about the tools I use, and there are a few things I wish were slightly different, but the number of annoyances in Bugzilla is much lower than in most tools I use.
However, Bugzilla is the only bug database I know, so actually I am not much use to this discussion. I am sure bugzilla would be good enough for our needs, but I would be quite happy if someone who knows more can suggest something better.
If Bugzilla is picked, make sure anonymous bug reports are very easy to file. The default configuration for bugzilla is a nightmare in this area (IMHO). If you raise the bar to file a bug report, you may "loose" lots of them.
Just my 0.02 EUR.
Saludos. Iñaki.
Just my 0.02 EUR.
Saludos. Iñaki.
No. Never, ever allow people to file bugs annonymously
If you file a bug in the quiz, you are making work for me. I don't want people doing that frivilously.
The kind of people who would file an annonymous bug report are exatly the people who will file useless reports, so you have to get back to them to ask for more details, so you need to know who they are.
With bug reports, we want quality, and we certainly don't want quantity.
(But we do want every genuine issue to be reported.)
End of rant.
If you file a bug in the quiz, you are making work for me. I don't want people doing that frivilously.
The kind of people who would file an annonymous bug report are exatly the people who will file useless reports, so you have to get back to them to ask for more details, so you need to know who they are.
With bug reports, we want quality, and we certainly don't want quantity.
(But we do want every genuine issue to be reported.)
End of rant.
Maybe our experience is just different, but I'd rather have all the issues reported than just a few, even if some of them are not genuine (whatever that means).
No reports is worse than non-genuine reports, at least IMHO.
Saludos. Iñaki.
No reports is worse than non-genuine reports, at least IMHO.
Saludos. Iñaki.
Believe me, there is no shortage of quiz bug reports. Many of them of dubious quality.
Look at the Moodle bugtracker front page and see how rapidly the number of the most recently reported bug goes up.
Look at the Moodle bugtracker front page and see how rapidly the number of the most recently reported bug goes up.
As a notifier and not a fixer of bugs I can't see any problem in needing to log in to register a bug. Plus this allows dialogue between the reporter and the developer which is invaluable for clarification and for communication of a resolution (hopefully). The latter really enhances the community aspect IMO, one really feels one is making a valid contribution and is encouraged to report again.
I think identification is very important, even if for nothing else than stopping web-crawler spam.
It won't be obtrusive though, because this system will use the same accounts as moodle.org (just like docs.moodle.org does)
It won't be obtrusive though, because this system will use the same accounts as moodle.org (just like docs.moodle.org does)
I've used Trac before for my own projects, and found it pretty close to perfect - it's subversion integration is really, really nice, reading a bug and then following a link to the relevant highlighted changeset is just *thumbs up*. It looks and behaves like a modern app, whilst Bugzilla has always looked clunky to me. But, Moodle uses CVS, and is by no means a small project, as all my projects were...
Basically, I think the main reason to use Trac is if you have a SVN repo, which we don't?
Basically, I think the main reason to use Trac is if you have a SVN repo, which we don't?
Just to add one more alternative:
It's simple and covers everything we need at Uni in our small-medium projects. I don't know too much about the rest of contenders but this works too.
It uses PHP, ADOdb....
Ciao
It's simple and covers everything we need at Uni in our small-medium projects. I don't know too much about the rest of contenders but this works too.
It uses PHP, ADOdb....
Ciao
Current one works for me. It has many useful features. I would just take care of the admin settings (if any): everybody can do anything. And, if it is 4 years old, we should get some kind of update.
I just know a few commercial bug trackers, cannot even remember their names. Open source ones should be nice. Mozilla project works pretty nice.
Any chosen one should have for me:
).
I just know a few commercial bug trackers, cannot even remember their names. Open source ones should be nice. Mozilla project works pretty nice.
Any chosen one should have for me:
- Very easy user interface (make sure of this)
- Powerful features
- Anonymous participation
From the perpective of someone reporting bugs to various projects I'd vote for Trac. Many other bug trackers seem like they were simply autogenerated from a set of database tables. Trac feels like they've actually paid attention to the user experience of reporting a bug.
I can only assume they've put the same effort in to the experience for developers as I've generally heard good things from people on the other side of the equation too.
(And surely a move to SVN is merely a matter of time?)
I can only assume they've put the same effort in to the experience for developers as I've generally heard good things from people on the other side of the equation too.
(And surely a move to SVN is merely a matter of time?)
Not a certainty, when we move off CVS we might skip SVN and go to Git or something like that.
Jira is currently my favourite ... take a good look at it. And it has plugin integration with CVS, SVN, etc
I like CVSTrac, I noticed it first at http://cvstrac.pfsense.com/ (my favourite firewall distro). Unfortunately seems to be suitable for small projects only.
The only thing I do not like about Jira is the license.
The only thing I do not like about Jira is the license.
For moodle.org, the license is free. Atalassian is offering is for free
to any documented Open Source projects.
My home IT shop does have licenses for JIRA, we've definitely felt it
was worth it. We had previously run something called Keystone from
2000-2003, that was a completely free PHP/MySQL offering, which
is now defunct.
to any documented Open Source projects.
My home IT shop does have licenses for JIRA, we've definitely felt it
was worth it. We had previously run something called Keystone from
2000-2003, that was a completely free PHP/MySQL offering, which
is now defunct.
I already said a few things that I like about JIRA. Here's some more...
Email integration with issue changes. This works similar to the Moodle
forums, you get in email a summary of the issue and a link that goes directly
to the web for the rest. You can set projects in JIRA such that the "leader"
will get email anytime something changes. Very smooth.
You can look at summary info on a project easily. There are predefined
views that show per version/release, per tool/feature. This is great for
a project lead.
The view showig the issues is configurable per person, this is remembered
from session to session. You can show just a subset of the attributed, say
title, date last modified, version, feature.
A dashboard is provided for individuals to look across all projects they are
a member in. This is configurable, with a number of "portlets" that can
be placed whereever you like.
A custom "filter", that's a query generator, lets you set up "views" of the issues.
I typically use this on an ad hoc basis, for some particular subset of issues I want,
and then I throw that filter away. You could use this for things like "All the
issues not resolved by someone on all projects".
Email integration with issue changes. This works similar to the Moodle
forums, you get in email a summary of the issue and a link that goes directly
to the web for the rest. You can set projects in JIRA such that the "leader"
will get email anytime something changes. Very smooth.
You can look at summary info on a project easily. There are predefined
views that show per version/release, per tool/feature. This is great for
a project lead.
The view showig the issues is configurable per person, this is remembered
from session to session. You can show just a subset of the attributed, say
title, date last modified, version, feature.
A dashboard is provided for individuals to look across all projects they are
a member in. This is configurable, with a number of "portlets" that can
be placed whereever you like.
A custom "filter", that's a query generator, lets you set up "views" of the issues.
I typically use this on an ad hoc basis, for some particular subset of issues I want,
and then I throw that filter away. You could use this for things like "All the
issues not resolved by someone on all projects".
Which version do Open Source projects get? Standard, Professional or Enterprise?
Whatever is desired. I'm seeing Enterprise used in several open source projects.
See http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/pricing.jsp#noprofit
for details.
See http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/pricing.jsp#noprofit
for details.
I am certainly prepared to give Jira a go.
Atlassian certainly have a good marketing department. Their web site makes it look very impressive.
Rather more impartially:
Some Apache foundation projects voted with their feet.
Some favorable comments in this slashdot thread.
Let's just hope we aren't buying ourselves a BitKeeper sequel.
Atlassian certainly have a good marketing department. Their web site makes it look very impressive.
Rather more impartially:
Some Apache foundation projects voted with their feet.
Some favorable comments in this slashdot thread.
Let's just hope we aren't buying ourselves a BitKeeper sequel.
The LAMS folk use JIRA I think so might be worth checking with them how they've found it. I've heard lots of positive things about it from various sources, but haven't used it myself.
I've had extensive experience with JIRA over the past 2 years.
This is for internal projects. I've really grown found of JIRA,
it's quite capable of being a 1st class bug tracker.
It also can work as a "feature request" tracker, driving the development
of a project, and if you like you can even use it for release notes.
Either way, JIRA is a 1st rate choice.
There's a fair amount of flexibility in JIRA, does allow for custom
issue types for example. Not really locked into anything here.
One place I've seen JIRA shine is in getting a subset of issues to focus
on. Being able to export out to Excel, if need be.
There is also some internal use of Trac. This hasn't taken off
like JIRA has.
Bugzilla didn't make our short list of candidates in our internal
use. I've looked at it in the past, it's ok but not as good as JIRA.
This is for internal projects. I've really grown found of JIRA,
it's quite capable of being a 1st class bug tracker.
It also can work as a "feature request" tracker, driving the development
of a project, and if you like you can even use it for release notes.
Either way, JIRA is a 1st rate choice.
There's a fair amount of flexibility in JIRA, does allow for custom
issue types for example. Not really locked into anything here.
One place I've seen JIRA shine is in getting a subset of issues to focus
on. Being able to export out to Excel, if need be.
There is also some internal use of Trac. This hasn't taken off
like JIRA has.
Bugzilla didn't make our short list of candidates in our internal
use. I've looked at it in the past, it's ok but not as good as JIRA.
What about Mantis?
I have used it. Its very easy to setup, manage and use.
--Martin
I have used it. Its very easy to setup, manage and use.
--Martin
Hi,
Yes, more about Mantis here
Even though it is used by my Typo3 community I can't say that it will be good for us here though
BR
Jens
Yes, more about Mantis here
Even though it is used by my Typo3 community I can't say that it will be good for us here though
BR
Jens
I have used Jira for about 3 years. I have also helped developing a few bug/issue trackers. I must say when we used Jira for a project, its the bug/issue tracker to beat.
I think Jira is a good candidate if we are open to using a close source product. The guy who decided to use Jira for the project simply told me, lets just pay them since we are not out to make the best bug tracker and we will be busy doing our real project. And I can say after 3 years, he was correct.
Trac is also interesting especially if it can be made to work with git.
I think Jira is a good candidate if we are open to using a close source product. The guy who decided to use Jira for the project simply told me, lets just pay them since we are not out to make the best bug tracker and we will be busy doing our real project. And I can say after 3 years, he was correct.
Trac is also interesting especially if it can be made to work with git.
I think the debian bug tracking system is aces. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/debbugs/
I know that bugs can be closed by certain key phrases in the changelogs of packages, but I have no idea whether it'll integrate with a version control system.
The email interface to it is really nice, you can put processing commands in, up until a stop word (usually thanks) and everything below that gets appended to the bug log.
Also, when you report a bug, you send your email address, so it's very easy to request more info.
I know that bugs can be closed by certain key phrases in the changelogs of packages, but I have no idea whether it'll integrate with a version control system.
The email interface to it is really nice, you can put processing commands in, up until a stop word (usually thanks) and everything below that gets appended to the bug log.
Also, when you report a bug, you send your email address, so it's very easy to request more info.
Trac looks pretty smooth
I am happy to work with any of them. Assuming we'll customise it a bit, can we have the customised version on some kind of SCM repo so if a bug in it annoys me enough I can look into fixing it?
(Hey! it could be a good test case for GIT )
I am happy to work with any of them. Assuming we'll customise it a bit, can we have the customised version on some kind of SCM repo so if a bug in it annoys me enough I can look into fixing it?
(Hey! it could be a good test case for GIT