Moodle group assignment locks 'grouping' setting

Moodle group assignment locks 'grouping' setting

by Richard van Iwaarden -
Number of replies: 3
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We have noticed that once you set up a Moodle group assignment, there's no option to edit the grouping afterwards. What is the reason behind this thinking, does anyone know?

We have one group assignment that is being made a couple of times. Let's say 5 times a year by different groups.

So we set up the group assignment, first time:
  • Group A, B, C, D, E added to grouping 'assignment January'

Then in march, we will do the same assignment again:

  • Group F, G, H added to grouping 'assignment March'

We now notice that the grouping of the assignment can not be changed and are forced to:

  • Add groups F, G, H to grouping 'assignment January'
  • Duplicate the assignment and set it up again

The last option is unwanted. We will get many assignments in the long run and if we want to look back at a students result, we will have multiple assignments to check (we prefer having all results at one place, so one assignment)

What is exactly the reason that we can not change the grouping of a group assignment after it has been set up?

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In reply to Richard van Iwaarden

Re: Moodle group assignment locks 'grouping' setting

by Tim Hunt -
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I don't really know, but it does seem unnecessary.

It will certainly be necessary to freeze the grouping selected after students have stared working on the assignment - so that will be why this is done. So, I suppose the question becomes - how can Moodle know when students may have started work on the assignment in their groups? When the assignment activity is first added to the Moodle coures is the earliest possible time that might be. And, the first time a student uploads a response is a latest possible time, but probably too late. What else is there?
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In reply to Richard van Iwaarden

Re: Moodle group assignment locks 'grouping' setting

by Michael Hughes -
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If you have ABCDE in a grouping (chronologically in January) and this groupings is just called "Assignment Groups", this just governs who's working together.

You can set this in January. Then in March you just add "FGH" groups to this same grouping. And this just governs the people working together for these groups (presumably they're not the same set of students as January?)

And then use assignment group overrides to control the relevant dates that the assignment is available (so January for Groups ABCDE, and March for FGH).

The issue is only one (IMHO) if you are saying that the same students do the assignment twice, but in different groups the 2nd time.

On top of that in terms of viewing students by a January / March cohort, there's no reason that you can't also create a Jan and March grouping, which then used in the "Common module settings" rather than in the Group submission settings. Normally you'd set this so that you see the same students by group in terms of who they're working with, but it *can* be set differently...and this can be amended when there are submissions...

This means you'd set the "March" grouping later on and see something like:

(assume that I've put group G1 in an "Alternate grouping" aka "January" and "G2" into "2nd Alternate grouping").
The drop down list if you select it shows *everyone*, but only offers the groups from "2nd Alternate grouping" (aka March: Group G2), whilst the memberships have been defined by a 3rd grouping just called "Assignment Groups" (and these are the groups that are displayed under the "Group" column).

If I go back to settings and change to the "Alternate grouping" then the drop down only displays the groups from that grouping (G1)...

Tim is right though once submissions are being taken in you don't really want to change the grouping as it'll impact all submissions that have been made, and at the moment Moodle has *no way* of knowing when a student starts work other than there being at least 1 submission.

Hope this makes sense!
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In reply to Michael Hughes

Re: Moodle group assignment locks 'grouping' setting

by Richard van Iwaarden -
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Yes! Thanks Tim and Michael!

I know why it sometimes bothers my teachers, as there will be people from 'January' that fail the course. They will be added to the new 'March' group, and this is when the problems start. Som 95% of the March students are new, but not all of them. When new groups are formed in March, most of them will not yet have a grade but some will.

This is where it gets complicated, because a member of more than one group is not allowed to submit. 

But what happens if this member is part of a 'new' group that has formed in March? Does anyone know?

I see some possibilities here.... first of all, concerning this screenshot: 

image%20%281%29.png

It would be so nice not to just have the 'group' pulldown menu for selection, but also the 'groupings' pulldown menu, but I created a tracker here a while ago: https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-77703

Second, and here's where things get complex.... an assignment has multiple attempts. What if your March group has 5 new members and 1 member of January, would it be possible to turn in the group assignment and write the grade for 4 members to attempt number 1, and the fifth (January) member will have the same grade in attempt 2? After all, the group member from January already has a (failed) grade from an earlier attempt.

Would be nice to have smile
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