Ok, now the big, bad moodle.org site is blocked from my school district. Just one more thing to deal with, I guess.
Sigh...
-- Art
Same company, same foolishness. The land of the free and the home of the brave, huh? 
Of course, I really do consider moodle to be subversive in the very best sense of the word.
-- Art
Of course, I really do consider moodle to be subversive in the very best sense of the word.
-- Art
So, could you just use an anonymous proxy server to bypass the filter? The tech savvy students at our local high school do so on a regular basis!
atw
atw
Yes, but that is not not permitted, of course. Could be a bad career move.
-- Art
-- Art
Your school blocks "technical/business forums"? How do they justify that, I wonder?
We block a lot of stuff that might surprise you. That is just our school district. It makes us all crazy, but there seems to be little that can be done about it except to pick our fights wisely.
We are now writing emails, making phones calls, etc., of course, trying to get moodle.org unblocked. We are trying to explain in an unoffensive way that this is where we come for professional development that we have to have to grow as teachers. It is a tougher sell than you might expect.
This is the kind of thing that we constantly deal with here. The people involved are neither malicious nor are they stupid. They are not teacher-haters. Fasr from it.
What they are is hugely risk-averse and it drives all kinds of otherwise inexplicable decisions. IMHO.
In this case, I think it was not our district, though, it was N2H2 who started blocking Moodle. But we can override their blocking of moodle.org.
Well, as the old saying goes, where all else fails, persistence prevails. We'll keep at it.
-- Art
We are now writing emails, making phones calls, etc., of course, trying to get moodle.org unblocked. We are trying to explain in an unoffensive way that this is where we come for professional development that we have to have to grow as teachers. It is a tougher sell than you might expect.
This is the kind of thing that we constantly deal with here. The people involved are neither malicious nor are they stupid. They are not teacher-haters. Fasr from it.
What they are is hugely risk-averse and it drives all kinds of otherwise inexplicable decisions. IMHO.
In this case, I think it was not our district, though, it was N2H2 who started blocking Moodle. But we can override their blocking of moodle.org.
Well, as the old saying goes, where all else fails, persistence prevails. We'll keep at it.
-- Art
I went to the company web site, and you can enter any url there to see how it is classifed by this software-and Moodle.org is said to not be in their database, so something isn't jiving here.
Hmmm... The plot thickens...
Was it this page? http://www.securecomputing.com/index.cfm?skey=234
-- Art
Was it this page? http://www.securecomputing.com/index.cfm?skey=234
-- Art
Actually, it wasn't that same page. If I check Moodle on that page it shows up in a computing category for one piece of software and none for the other.
Here's the page where I didn't find Moodle. It seems to be the same school filtering product:
http://www.securecomputing.com/index.cfm?skey=1453
Here's the page where I didn't find Moodle. It seems to be the same school filtering product:
http://www.securecomputing.com/index.cfm?skey=1453
Thanks! It will be handy to have.
-- Art
-- Art
We block a lot of stuff that might surprise you.
I think I'm pretty hard to surprise at this point, actually.
We run an on-line Ed.M. program for working teachers, and let's just say I've encountered more than my share of woes with "filters". Sometimes it's like pulling teeth to get their local tech guys to let them access the technologies they need to do their course work.
However, blocking a "business/technical forum" is definitely a new one on me. Can't have people reading technical information at school, I guess... they might learn something.
At least it sounds like your local admins have a clue. I'm concerned, though, about people at other schools who may be getting blocked by this "filter".
I think I'm pretty hard to surprise at this point, actually.
We run an on-line Ed.M. program for working teachers, and let's just say I've encountered more than my share of woes with "filters". Sometimes it's like pulling teeth to get their local tech guys to let them access the technologies they need to do their course work.
However, blocking a "business/technical forum" is definitely a new one on me. Can't have people reading technical information at school, I guess... they might learn something.
At least it sounds like your local admins have a clue. I'm concerned, though, about people at other schools who may be getting blocked by this "filter".
At least it sounds like your local admins have a clue. I'm concerned,
though, about people at other schools who may be getting blocked by
this "filter".
Yes, at workshops I sometiomes do, I hear over and over again about lessons and activities that teachers have created at home that turn out to be useless at school. Important resources are simple unreachable. And many teachers have to clear out of their buildings by 4:40 or 5:00, so it is hard to do everything at school to ensure that this won't happen.
It simply adds unnecessary frustration to the job and discourages teachers from trying to use online resources.
-- Art
Yes, at workshops I sometiomes do, I hear over and over again about lessons and activities that teachers have created at home that turn out to be useless at school. Important resources are simple unreachable. And many teachers have to clear out of their buildings by 4:40 or 5:00, so it is hard to do everything at school to ensure that this won't happen.
It simply adds unnecessary frustration to the job and discourages teachers from trying to use online resources.
-- Art
You might be interested in some work Tom Hoffman's doing on automatically checking that webfilters are allowing through the stuff that matters.
Terry Freedman's latest musings might be of interest.
Terry Freedman's latest musings might be of interest.
Thanks, Miles. I will certainly check out those links.
-- Art
-- Art
WTF?
Could there be any change of getting an official reason for the block?
I noticed that our public library blocks the Chat module forum, thinking it's a chat. After numerous reports that it's not a chat it's still blocked...
I noticed that our public library blocks the Chat module forum, thinking it's a chat. After numerous reports that it's not a chat it's still blocked...
Could there be any change of getting an official reason for the block?
Possibly, but it seems that Kafka is making those decisions, so it might be tough.
-- Art
Possibly, but it seems that Kafka is making those decisions, so it might be tough.
-- Art
I feel for you Art. We have an entire school district in our service region that blocked our campus Blackboard system because it has "chat capabilities". The problem in our case is that the district director of technology really didn't know anything about technology...the IBM Selectric III typewriter was still "cutting-edge" in her mind 
.
If you want to make a change get the parents after them...especially the ones who are "tech savvy" and can make a good argument...that's where your power base is in a school district. You may be surprised how few parent complaints (to the right person) it may take to get this changed.
Steve
. If you want to make a change get the parents after them...especially the ones who are "tech savvy" and can make a good argument...that's where your power base is in a school district. You may be surprised how few parent complaints (to the right person) it may take to get this changed.
Steve
You are right, Steve. That is the best way to go in most school districts.
-- Art
-- Art
I am laughing. The good old squeaky wheels. It is funny how the magic power oil can comes out of somebody's back pocket (usually reserved to oil the rod that the IBM Selectric print head travels on) when those darn parents start talking about customer service for their kids.
I was one of those darn parents. I liked to meet my child's, principal(administrator of some type), teacher (or all of them at once) at the start of the year, when there were no problems, so we were all sort of on the same win-win page. I was a pretty good snake oil salesman. I think it was so novel, parents asking for a meeting that was not about a complaint, they always listened to me after that (as I did with them). And yes, I would go talk to people about an issue the teacher thought was important for my child and the class.
Public sector is so much fun! Yeah.
I was one of those darn parents. I liked to meet my child's, principal(administrator of some type), teacher (or all of them at once) at the start of the year, when there were no problems, so we were all sort of on the same win-win page. I was a pretty good snake oil salesman. I think it was so novel, parents asking for a meeting that was not about a complaint, they always listened to me after that (as I did with them). And yes, I would go talk to people about an issue the teacher thought was important for my child and the class.
Public sector is so much fun! Yeah.
I think it is ALWAYS a good idea to get to know a kid's teachers. At least in our system...
-- Art
-- Art
We're back, Baby! I am posting this from school.
-- Art
-- Art
What happened?
I thought of a reason a school district might want to block access to Moodle.org-access to the site might give students information about how they could hack their school's Moodle or about bugs such as the one that allows one to see the quiz answers in the page source.
I thought of a reason a school district might want to block access to Moodle.org-access to the site might give students information about how they could hack their school's Moodle or about bugs such as the one that allows one to see the quiz answers in the page source.
you guys read too much into it the blocking software is like an anti-virus it get updated automaticly like an anti-virus with a list of bloked sites. they just added moodle to the list and bingo next update the school district blocks moodle.org. Just contact them and they will add moodle.org to the white list.
of course its redicuslly easy to go around this kind on thing by using proxys, shh tunel and fake dommains.
plato said : laws are ridiculous because good man will follow them anyway and bad man will only ignore them
of course its redicuslly easy to go around this kind on thing by using proxys, shh tunel and fake dommains.
plato said : laws are ridiculous because good man will follow them anyway and bad man will only ignore them
I hadn't thought of that. That could be, but I think it was N2H2 being sloppy and careless in this case.
-- Art
-- Art
Art,
I knew they would listen to you. Congratulations!
Ulrike
I knew they would listen to you. Congratulations!
Ulrike
Well, several of us asked for the override, so we are all very pleased to be able to get back into the forums.
Thanks,
Ulrike
Thanks,
Ulrike
Congrat for that, Art. 
Hope this thing won't happen to me.
Hope this thing won't happen to me.
Thanks.
I hope so, too! This site often serves as therapy for me. Anger managment, even! (No smiley, 'cause I am not kidding.)
-- Art
I hope so, too! This site often serves as therapy for me. Anger managment, even! (No smiley, 'cause I am not kidding.)
-- Art
and thats even more reason why i hate filtering software with a passion. For me its exactlly the same thing that we had 30 years ago when the chruch could get books blacklisted. Its completely unacceptable behavior, plus its send a strong message of distrust from the management to the users.
Well, we just found out today that sites where purchases can made will be blocked next year. The way it is being presented to us, that would include sites like amazon.com and similiar legitimate sites through which we obtain books, software and other necessary supplies.
I am hoping, of course, that this turns out not to be the case. I think there is a good chance that it will be re-thought over the summer break.
But, yeah, that certainly would send a strong message of distrust to me.
Life goes on...
-- Art
I am hoping, of course, that this turns out not to be the case. I think there is a good chance that it will be re-thought over the summer break.
But, yeah, that certainly would send a strong message of distrust to me.
Life goes on...
-- Art
A lot of sites you can make purchases through but they also have a lot of free valuable information.
I read something this morning that said in most African countries the cost of internet access is more than 10 percent of the annual income, hence prohibitively expensive. That made me think the 100 dollar laptops are a bit pointless because the cost of getting online itself is cost-prohibitive and certainly isn't something most schools will be able to afford there.
However, reading what is going on at your school (and obviously others using the software), I realize that American schools too are making it next to impossible for students to access internet at school. A student has to have internet at home to really be able to access things.
I think much better than running these imperfect catch-all filters is to have a strong policy about what sites are prohibited, and then having your IT person periodically make random checks to make sure it is being followed. If you don't want students visiting Myspace, you make a severe punishment for students who do so, and you enforce it a couple times, and it won't happen again. If you don't want teachers visiting porn sites, you do the same.
I guess I'm just a firm believer in encouraging self-control. When people ask me why I use software that allows people to post forum posts that aren't moderated, I explain to them that these are adults and I have forum comportment guidelines that I expect adults to comprehend. If they post things in violation of those guidelines, I delete them, and if they do so repeatedly or in a very bad way I just kick them out. I don't feel I need to offer them an explanation unless they ask for one. The rules are there and the consequences too, you can follow them, or you can choose not to. That's it. But it is not my business to control what people do before they even have the chance to make a choice themselves.
I read something this morning that said in most African countries the cost of internet access is more than 10 percent of the annual income, hence prohibitively expensive. That made me think the 100 dollar laptops are a bit pointless because the cost of getting online itself is cost-prohibitive and certainly isn't something most schools will be able to afford there.
However, reading what is going on at your school (and obviously others using the software), I realize that American schools too are making it next to impossible for students to access internet at school. A student has to have internet at home to really be able to access things.
I think much better than running these imperfect catch-all filters is to have a strong policy about what sites are prohibited, and then having your IT person periodically make random checks to make sure it is being followed. If you don't want students visiting Myspace, you make a severe punishment for students who do so, and you enforce it a couple times, and it won't happen again. If you don't want teachers visiting porn sites, you do the same.
I guess I'm just a firm believer in encouraging self-control. When people ask me why I use software that allows people to post forum posts that aren't moderated, I explain to them that these are adults and I have forum comportment guidelines that I expect adults to comprehend. If they post things in violation of those guidelines, I delete them, and if they do so repeatedly or in a very bad way I just kick them out. I don't feel I need to offer them an explanation unless they ask for one. The rules are there and the consequences too, you can follow them, or you can choose not to. That's it. But it is not my business to control what people do before they even have the chance to make a choice themselves.
If you don't want students visiting Myspace, you make a severe
punishment for students who do so, and you enforce it a couple times,
and it won't happen again. If you don't want teachers visiting porn
sites, you do the same.
Yep, that would be my approach, too.
The rules are there and the consequences too, you can follow them, or you can choose not to. That's it. But it is not my business to control what people do before they even have the chance to make a choice themselves.
Again, I agree 100%. One of the most important things we can teach at school is that actions have consequences.
But I should not complain too much. The community I live in is pretty paranoid about the Internet. It's nothing personal or malicous directed at me.
As Roseanne Roseannadanna said, It just goes to show you. It's always something. If it's not one thing, it's another. (For you youngsters, here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseanne_Roseannadanna.)
-- Art
Yep, that would be my approach, too.
The rules are there and the consequences too, you can follow them, or you can choose not to. That's it. But it is not my business to control what people do before they even have the chance to make a choice themselves.
Again, I agree 100%. One of the most important things we can teach at school is that actions have consequences.
But I should not complain too much. The community I live in is pretty paranoid about the Internet. It's nothing personal or malicous directed at me.
As Roseanne Roseannadanna said, It just goes to show you. It's always something. If it's not one thing, it's another. (For you youngsters, here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseanne_Roseannadanna.)
-- Art
LOL! I'm not that young to need a Roseanne primer...
A lot of sites you can make purchases through but they also have a lot of free valuable information.
They sure do. I've found the "search inside the book" function at amazon.com to be extremely valuable more than once.
Art might want to point out that many .gov sites and almost all .edu sites offer merchandise or services for sale on-line as well.
At my school you can order anything from a coffee mug to graduate tuition on-line. Any book in print can be ordered through a web form at the Illini Union Bookstore, and I see that the University of Chicago Press offers on-line ordering too.
Will Art's school block uiuc.edu and uchicago.edu along with amazon.com?
They sure do. I've found the "search inside the book" function at amazon.com to be extremely valuable more than once.
Art might want to point out that many .gov sites and almost all .edu sites offer merchandise or services for sale on-line as well.
At my school you can order anything from a coffee mug to graduate tuition on-line. Any book in print can be ordered through a web form at the Illini Union Bookstore, and I see that the University of Chicago Press offers on-line ordering too.
Will Art's school block uiuc.edu and uchicago.edu along with amazon.com?
Will Art's school block uiuc.edu and uchicago.edu along with amazon.com?
In the end, I bet sites like those won't be blocked. First will come a period of strict enforcement and great teacher frustration, I suspect. Then, in response to many complaints, the policy will be eased somewhat.
I am just guessing, of course.
-- Art
In the end, I bet sites like those won't be blocked. First will come a period of strict enforcement and great teacher frustration, I suspect. Then, in response to many complaints, the policy will be eased somewhat.
I am just guessing, of course.
-- Art
There's a strong tendency among IT departments (I've worked in a couple now, and have heard of many others) to think that because they have total control over the system this gives them the right to exercise it at all times and in all things. Because they can turn things on and off with a single mouse click they do. Our Windows installation won't even let staff change their desktop wallpaper. I can understand turning it off on the student machines, because the little cherubs will be putting all sorts of pornographic rubbish on, to the offence of those around them, but if a member of staff wants to put a picture of their kids on their desktop then why not? Our web filter, I discovered last week, blocks political organisations, so if I want to look at the website of our government, or the main opposition party, of which I'm a member, I can't.
The problem is that IT departments think that the machines are theirs, and so they can decide what we're allowed to do with them. They're wrong - the machines are OURS (ie the organisation's) and so we decide what should be allowed and what shouldn't, and then they go away and do it. They implement policy, they don't make it. They need to learn that. If they're doing something which is preventing you from doing your job properly then complain long and hard until it's changed. Once they've lost a few battles they'll learn not to bother fighting.
Don't complain to them, though, they won't listen - complain to the people above them and get them TOLD to change it. Fight a guerilla war - if you need to do stuff on the net which is blocked, go home to do it, and make sure people in authority see you going home early so they ask you why you're doing it. If you do stuff in the evenings because you can't do it in the day, put in a claim for overtime - you won't get it, but someone will ask you why you're ordering books from home in your own time, and the possibility of having to pay you extra to work in the evenings should encourage them to get the policy changed. Use every opportunity to inconvenience the IT department themselves through their own policies, and take every opportunity to mention to senior management that you weren't able to do something (especially something they wanted you to do) because IT policy blocked it.
It's time to reclaim our computers! 
Chris
I can understand the wallpaper issue. It's not that staff will maliciously put pornographic pictures up as their wallpaper, but there are plenty of "free wallpapers" one can download from the internet of butterflies and other nice things that are packaged with not so nice spyware and other malicious items, and there are plenty of adults who don't know any better than to install these things on their machines. I do believe in blocking sites that have hidden malware (which the typical user isn't aware is there) in them because I once worked in an office where one of the employees was looking at porn sites and while this in itself is an issue the big issue for the whole office was that it infected the entire network in the office with Trojans and the like that compromised the security and integrity of our data and because we didn't want to make an issue about it with the boss we had to sneakily have someone come in and wipe off all the computers to clean it up and this wasn't cheap, and then change all of the passwords of the computers we didn't want this person to have access to and then pretend we didn't know the passwords.
I've been watching this thread for a while and I can see that it is time to input a little of my experience, from the "other side of the fence".
I've worked in IT as long as I've worked in any field related to computers. Started out working for a bunch of software OEM's that didn't know how to use their windows based computers to check email even though they could write operating systems for micro controllers. These guys were amazingly intelligent but lacked common (computer) sense. I ended up doing just about everything (mundane) for them you could think of, including managing their file and email servers.
This has been pretty much the norm for me regardless of the job/employer. Sort of how I landed a job as a tech trainer, so much experience with so many different kinds of users that I can pretty much teach anyone anything r/t computers. Don't want to change the topic here, just give a little background.
One thing that I've noticed from the IT side, is that when left to make decisions the Admins will always take the safe road. Do any of you have an idea why? Think about it for a second, legal implications! The slurry mix runs down hill and guess who's at the bottom.
The only time I've ever seen IT make decisions is when no one else will. You are correct, the computers belong to the organization and it is the organizations responsibility to make choices for how they are used. When the organization cannot or does not make those decisions you will see a more cautious approach to what is allowed and what is not allowed. Ex: block everything until asked to unblock.
Chris is correct, if/when you take action to get policy changed it will change. But you have to care enough and have reason enough to get those that run the organization to do it. Remember, it is ultimately that organizations responsibility for whatever happens on their network. It's nice that you take such ownership of your organization, that sort of feeling for an employer is lost in many respects today, but it is not in any way your network. You just work there and do as you are asked to do. When you cannot perform your job you are expected to tell someone. This is the only way that change can happen.
In the end if you are not voicing your concerns and proposing possible changes that make sense you are only harming yourself and impeding your own ability to get your job done. I see it every day.
This is exactlly why i refuse to install netnanny or other filters on my friends and familly computers. i always say to them that this is not the solution and that they should think about mouving the computer to a share space like the livingroom. then you dont have to worry that much about what the youngsters do with the machine and YOU can BE with THEM. When did we decided we where gona surender all of our selfdetermination and familly disipline to technologies ?
"It's time to reclaim our computers!
"
i could not agree more, computer bacame usefull whit the personal computer revolution. the stop being these centrally controled tools and bacame great tools of learning and innovation by the very process of appropriation. Now most it department just want to turn you personal computer into a terminal all over again
"It's time to reclaim our computers!
"i could not agree more, computer bacame usefull whit the personal computer revolution. the stop being these centrally controled tools and bacame great tools of learning and innovation by the very process of appropriation. Now most it department just want to turn you personal computer into a terminal all over again