Centre and Moodle seem to do a lot of the same things (I have installed Centre and played with it before, but never used it officially). How do you plan to integrate them and what do you plan to gain from the integration? I am just curious as both have their own attendnace, grades, users, enrollment, etc. If there is a good rationale for this I may be interested, but I don't know off the bat what the benefit is.
Hey Dan,
We were looking at integrating both systems to make our schools run easier for the staff and IT people. We looked at Centre and e-mailed the developer a list of items we would like to see including adidng a block to Moodle for the SIS, integrating the gradebook, ability to e-mail progress reports to parents and students, ability for parent/students login integrated with Moodle. When the budget was finally complete we couldn't do it this year. I will look through my correspondecne with the developer and post what we proposed. I am interested in how you are planning to integrate the two and what your rollout expectation would be. I will follow-up with that correspondence tonight.
Thanks and it definitely is a project that will be useful. I had posted our goals on these forums a few months and Martin responded he may include it in the main release depending on what it can do.
Deon Metelski
We were looking at integrating both systems to make our schools run easier for the staff and IT people. We looked at Centre and e-mailed the developer a list of items we would like to see including adidng a block to Moodle for the SIS, integrating the gradebook, ability to e-mail progress reports to parents and students, ability for parent/students login integrated with Moodle. When the budget was finally complete we couldn't do it this year. I will look through my correspondecne with the developer and post what we proposed. I am interested in how you are planning to integrate the two and what your rollout expectation would be. I will follow-up with that correspondence tonight.
Thanks and it definitely is a project that will be useful. I had posted our goals on these forums a few months and Martin responded he may include it in the main release depending on what it can do.
Deon Metelski
Hi. I'm the developer behind Centre. Moodle integration has become one of the most popular requests I've seen so far.
I've recently decided to change directions with Centre and have created a new project Focus/SIS (http://www.focus-sis.org).
Version 1.0 is pretty similar to Centre version 2.5, but the beta version 2.0 of Focus/SIS includes an integration engine which should make this project much more feasible.
The integration engine works by allowing developers to create small plug-ins that are executed by Focus/SIS when certain events take place.
For instance, when a student is added, Focus/SIS executes all the plug-ins that correspond to this action. To accomplish Moodle integration, a simple plug-in would be created to add a student to Moodle's database when this event occurs in Focus/SIS.
A number of plug-ins would have to be created to accomplish the complete integration.
I'm currently setting up a repository of 3rd-party plug-ins as well as some developer docs on creating these plug-ins. My hope is that this plug-in functionality will spur community development of Focus/SIS and that Moodle integration will lead some Moodle developers to take part in the Focus/SIS project. This project is also a great example that can be used to demonstrate how to create plug-ins and integrate Focus/SIS with other pieces of software.
However, I don't know too much about the internals of Moodle. Does anyone want to help me create these plug-ins?
I've recently decided to change directions with Centre and have created a new project Focus/SIS (http://www.focus-sis.org).
Version 1.0 is pretty similar to Centre version 2.5, but the beta version 2.0 of Focus/SIS includes an integration engine which should make this project much more feasible.
The integration engine works by allowing developers to create small plug-ins that are executed by Focus/SIS when certain events take place.
For instance, when a student is added, Focus/SIS executes all the plug-ins that correspond to this action. To accomplish Moodle integration, a simple plug-in would be created to add a student to Moodle's database when this event occurs in Focus/SIS.
A number of plug-ins would have to be created to accomplish the complete integration.
I'm currently setting up a repository of 3rd-party plug-ins as well as some developer docs on creating these plug-ins. My hope is that this plug-in functionality will spur community development of Focus/SIS and that Moodle integration will lead some Moodle developers to take part in the Focus/SIS project. This project is also a great example that can be used to demonstrate how to create plug-ins and integrate Focus/SIS with other pieces of software.
However, I don't know too much about the internals of Moodle. Does anyone want to help me create these plug-ins?
It seems we've ended in the middle of a... situation. I've been advising people to look at centre for a while. He's what my GS brought me.
this from the Centre miller group website
"Flattery! We suppose that imitation is the best form of flattery, but we want to suggest that you not be fooled by imitations of Centre / SIS.
We've been told by our clients and friends that they have been overwhelmed by an onslaught of spam from an ex-employee of ours. He's advertising a "fork" or variant of Centre / SIS that he purports to offer.
You'll have to decide whether or not to stake your school, school district or consortium on the stablity, availablity, and consistency of a college student. Most of the time, they're just hard to wake up in the morning."
From the focus/sis 'about page'
"So, I began to write Focus/SIS (then called Centre), trying to design a system that solved the problems I'd heard repeated from district after district. Focus/SIS would use enterprise-level technologies and would avoid the use of expensive, proprietary platforms used by other school software. School districts loved my software so much that I continued developing."
My question is, who is the lead on writing the code? While I'm not connected to any of the development work going on, i do suggest centre to organizations as a option to very expensive alternatives. Forked software makes me nervous.
this from the Centre miller group website
"Flattery! We suppose that imitation is the best form of flattery, but we want to suggest that you not be fooled by imitations of Centre / SIS.
We've been told by our clients and friends that they have been overwhelmed by an onslaught of spam from an ex-employee of ours. He's advertising a "fork" or variant of Centre / SIS that he purports to offer.
You'll have to decide whether or not to stake your school, school district or consortium on the stablity, availablity, and consistency of a college student. Most of the time, they're just hard to wake up in the morning."
From the focus/sis 'about page'
"So, I began to write Focus/SIS (then called Centre), trying to design a system that solved the problems I'd heard repeated from district after district. Focus/SIS would use enterprise-level technologies and would avoid the use of expensive, proprietary platforms used by other school software. School districts loved my software so much that I continued developing."
My question is, who is the lead on writing the code? While I'm not connected to any of the development work going on, i do suggest centre to organizations as a option to very expensive alternatives. Forked software makes me nervous.
Also. I don't think there is anything wrong with forks! The open source community is built on forks! Look at Joomla! I'm not sure if our school will switch yet, but it does interest me that this new split offers the "Discipline Module" as part of the the install; not for $2000 extra dollars. It also looks like it gives you more power to change your report cards, transcripts, etc.. without buying additional tools. Frankly, I'm excited about this new fork and hoping that the developer offers more of these type of "addons" with the GPL attached to them.
We will see...
We will see...
IMO, forks can be a sign of something odd going on in the development community of the project, they divide resources and confuse users. The Mambo-Joomla issue is a good example (or bad) example of this.
When evaluating open source software, one of the key criteria in my own evaluation, is that the community structure is vibrant and the communication flow between developers and between users is healthy. A fork, in my opinion, is a suggestion that something may have gone wrong in this critical community building process and that the project may not be one with a good prognosis for long term health.
IMO, this is especially the case when the fork is somewhat hostile, as in the case of the Joomla/Mambo. In other cases forks may simply be a genial difference of opinion or direction, in which case it may not be a big deal.
It may be a good thing for Centre/Focus, when we looked at the code in Centre it kind of looked like a 'first run', it may be that we'll see a similar evolution toward a more usable codebase come out of this process, as we did with PHPNuke-Postnuke, and final evolution into a really nice 3rd generation system like Drupal.
It also makes me nervous that the main complaint against the Focus developer seems to be that he is a college student, as in my experience college students can create first class code, esp. when they plug in to a project with helpful development community and a reasonably well designed API and have a decent project manager to help them keep on track.
When evaluating open source software, one of the key criteria in my own evaluation, is that the community structure is vibrant and the communication flow between developers and between users is healthy. A fork, in my opinion, is a suggestion that something may have gone wrong in this critical community building process and that the project may not be one with a good prognosis for long term health.
IMO, this is especially the case when the fork is somewhat hostile, as in the case of the Joomla/Mambo. In other cases forks may simply be a genial difference of opinion or direction, in which case it may not be a big deal.
It may be a good thing for Centre/Focus, when we looked at the code in Centre it kind of looked like a 'first run', it may be that we'll see a similar evolution toward a more usable codebase come out of this process, as we did with PHPNuke-Postnuke, and final evolution into a really nice 3rd generation system like Drupal.
It also makes me nervous that the main complaint against the Focus developer seems to be that he is a college student, as in my experience college students can create first class code, esp. when they plug in to a project with helpful development community and a reasonably well designed API and have a decent project manager to help them keep on track.
I agree with your last remarks about the complaint being
that he is a college student. To say that the fork is no good because
of his age or his current vocation, sounds simply like a scare tactic to
influence people not to use Focus.
If the Miller-Group doesn't want people to use the fork, they simply have to
prove that their project offers more to the educational institution than its counterpart. Right now, they have a larger community base, and
this is very important when it comes to OSD as your base lets
you know what is missing and what isnt: not to mention the code,
financial, and other resources that make a community simply indispensable. Focus,
being new, really has not had a chance to build a community base; time will tell
if this will change.
In Focus/SIS, there are courses and there are also sections. A course has a title (like "Calculus"). Teachers are assigned to a course period.
However, in Moodle, there are no sections (that I am aware of). Is this correct?
The Moodle integration that I have working creates a course in Moodle when a course is created in Focus/SIS, and assignes teachers to that course when a section is added. Students are added to the Moodle course when they are assigned to any section of that course in Focus/SIS.
Originally, each section in Focus/SIS was created as a course in Moodle, but the other way seems more practical. Is this how most schools setup Moodle?
In other words, should each section in Focus/SIS have a corresponding course in Moodle, or should there be only one Moodle course per Focus/SIS course?
I hope this makes sense and I appreciate any thoughts anyone has,
--Andrew
However, in Moodle, there are no sections (that I am aware of). Is this correct?
The Moodle integration that I have working creates a course in Moodle when a course is created in Focus/SIS, and assignes teachers to that course when a section is added. Students are added to the Moodle course when they are assigned to any section of that course in Focus/SIS.
Originally, each section in Focus/SIS was created as a course in Moodle, but the other way seems more practical. Is this how most schools setup Moodle?
In other words, should each section in Focus/SIS have a corresponding course in Moodle, or should there be only one Moodle course per Focus/SIS course?
I hope this makes sense and I appreciate any thoughts anyone has,
--Andrew
It may be a little late, but I thought I would toss my opinion in. At the HS I work with, they have one Moodle course per course/teacher combination. For example, say the school had the following sections for Algebra 1:
240 ALGEBRA 1
--240.01 Per. 1 Doe
--240.02 Per. 2 Doe
--240.03 Per. 4 Doe
--240.04 Per. 5 Doe
--240.05 Per. 6 Doe
--240.06 Per. 3 Schmoe
--240.07 Per. 5 Schmoe
--240.08 Per. 2 Smith
That should create three courses in Moodle: Algebra 1/Doe, Algebra 1/Schmoe, and Algebra 1/Smith. We do it this way because almost all HS teachers use the same plans for their sections, but different teachers will want individual control. Hope this helps.
240 ALGEBRA 1
--240.01 Per. 1 Doe
--240.02 Per. 2 Doe
--240.03 Per. 4 Doe
--240.04 Per. 5 Doe
--240.05 Per. 6 Doe
--240.06 Per. 3 Schmoe
--240.07 Per. 5 Schmoe
--240.08 Per. 2 Smith
That should create three courses in Moodle: Algebra 1/Doe, Algebra 1/Schmoe, and Algebra 1/Smith. We do it this way because almost all HS teachers use the same plans for their sections, but different teachers will want individual control. Hope this helps.
Does anyone know any current projects underway integrating Moodle with any open source SMS / SIS projects (Centre / Focus or other)? I am very interested and may be able to contribute some development hours as a PHP programmer in the near future.
Our district may be changing SMS's (which one is yet to be determined), and integration with Moodle would be a great bonus.
Our district may be changing SMS's (which one is yet to be determined), and integration with Moodle would be a great bonus.
Tim - Centre/Focus seemed to me to be the most promising. I'm not sure what is happening with integration but I would encourage it as I would like to see a strong package developed. One limitation at this point is that AFAIK Centre/Focus are Postgres only (i.e. no MySQL). I too am hoping to have some more time to contribute to Moodle as I switch back to the other side of the desk from being a teacher back to being a student. At this point, I think just having an idea of those who would be interested in such an integration would be good first step. Peace - Anthony
I have worked in several SMS integrations, and made the code available under GPL. In terms of Focus/Centre/SIS, 99% of it would be to use auth/db and enrol/db to read directly from the SIS database, perhaps through some views.
If you have a go at it, I'll be happy to help from the sidelines. I'd say it can be done to a pretty polished level in a weekend.
Code to integrate the ArtenaSMS can be found at...
http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gitweb?p=artena-sms.git;a=summary
Click on the "snapshot" link
If you have a go at it, I'll be happy to help from the sidelines. I'd say it can be done to a pretty polished level in a weekend.
Code to integrate the ArtenaSMS can be found at...
http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gitweb?p=artena-sms.git;a=summary
Click on the "snapshot" link