Decaf 2015 | Awesome bar | comments re 3.0

Decaf 2015 | Awesome bar | comments re 3.0

autor Derek Chirnside -
Počet odpovedí: 4

The themes I've considered so far with a view to Moodle 3.0 include:

I was planning to look at Essential theme next, but 3.0 version is not ready, and seems to be headed for a premium theme future.  https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=323775#p1300239  
Just by the way: here is a random website with Essential in use.  Very nice.  Complete with the use of the 'notification' at the top of something they really want you to read.

  • I looked at Flexbase, but it is not 3x ready yet.  https://moodle.org/plugins/theme_flexibase  
  • I've also looked at a few of the other bootstrap based themes: esp BCU, MoreCandy, but I'm not sure they are working on 3.0.
    This was an encouraging comment in the BCU plugin entry: 
    "Future Plans: we will be adding more navigation items into the theme (configurable) with the aim of reaching a point where we can disable the administration and navigaion blocks for students giving a simplified more consistent way of navigating courses which is less dependant on the random availability and placement of blocks"  https://moodle.org/plugins/view/theme_bcu
    This I will look forward to . . .
  • May look at Aardvark, since it is 3.0 ready.

So I'm posting on Decaf, probably the final theme I'll look at for now.  It's all about Navigation really.  It is the current theme we use for the biggest installation I run..

Decaf/Awesomebar as a navigation approach

There has been some pondering about how much the navigation question can be addressed at the theme level.  Decaf is the most radical of the options and the most developed.

In summary:  Decaf puts the navigation menu and settings menu up in the top, usually alongside the regular nav bar.

Summary: there are problems with the responsive aspect.  If anyone is interested in having at look at Decaf as an admin, please Message me and I'll give you an admin account to an old 2.8 install I have lying around.

Decaf related themes which seem to be no longer maintained:

We had a Decaf/Essential mashup at some stage.  refer: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=244717 This sort of mashup is possible, but you loose something in small screens.

The problem AB was designed to solve: a 60 item Moodle menu described here: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=244717#p1061175

And this comment from Mary, which I agree with:

The only problem I can see with this, Derek, is that the Awesomebar would suffer the same fate of how the menu works in Bootstrap, and the topnavbar menu is not really that friendly when it comes to very long menus which contain multi-level menus within it.

Awesomebar was first introduced in 2010 when Moodle 2.0 came out and was a real innovation. So much so I was surprised that Moodle never took up the idea to integrate it directly into Moodle. Since the Settings menu itself is a big unwieldy menu now, more so than it was. Perhaps it would benefit being split up into smaller segments, which I think would work better.

I dare say you should, by rights, be able to add the navigation elements of the settings menu directly into the topnavbar by overriding bootstrapbase/renderers/core_ renderer.php.  But to do that would, I think, mean a complete change of code as themes work differently than they did, and decaf has gone through a lot of changes to try and keep up with the myriad of changes to Moodle navigation in general. (from https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=244717#p1061889)

The problem with AB and responsiveness: it's just difficult so it seems.

Here is the worst case for the Awesome bar at the moment (below).  This is really quick to navigate to compared to any of the other options.  And it looks good.


Most of the links are only two submenus deep red band.

--------------

I'm choosing one post sort of at Random from Richard to illustrate the challenges and obstacles: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=252385#p1094468

Awesomebar is a kind of replacement for both the navigation and admin blocks, putting them into a horizontal menu along the top of the screen. It works well (even in bootstrap) with the biggest issue I have faced (and not had time to overcome as yet) being that I haven't worked out how to have two separate collapsible menus - AB and the custommenu - on the same page, especially with the potential size of the dropdowns in the AB. If some of the discussions around the 'big menu' and Fred's work a few months ago (I think it was Fred?) came off, then yes this would probably be even better than the AB, but for now its what we have as an option in some themes until such time as those other decisions and directions are implemented. 

So this references Frederic's week of free choice project.  Really really cool.  The so called Simplified Blockless navigation.

Simplified Blockless navigation

See: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=233520  This led to a fascinating discussion.  At the risk of repetition, a few highlights:

Stuart Lamour: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=233520#p1016971 

From the posts on Is docking really necesary?

"We do a lot of testing with users - students and tutors - and the standard moodle navigation was the first thing we removed from our site back in 2010"

and also "For us navigation is so fundamentally vital to the user (and thus learning) experience - far more so than repository integration, badges or any of the other recent m2 features. These features are nice, and may be used a small amount of users, but basic navigation - that 100% of users need - is unfortunately something that got much worse in moodle2"

Michael Aherne: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=233520#p1061489 

"as a developer I think the navigation block is a nice piece of work - I just don't think it works particularly well for the average user, in our institution, at least" 

David Scotson's comment: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=233520#p1015138 

"having a two-column layout makes life very much easier if you want to use Moodle on phones and tablets. On small devices the block column can just slip below the main content, and since you've moved the important stuff to the top menus, that's not a problem

In summary

I could add a lot more here, but I won't.  I think there was a general feeling that the navigation block/settings block could be improved upon.  

Navigation Overhaul Specification

After this blockless stuff, Frederic posted about the Navigation Overhaul Specification, in Major Future Things:  https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=261224  This is a highly complex document.  

Something could come of this??????  I posted today to ask Frederic.

For completeness, some other thoughts that may be worth considering regarding Navigation Options

  1. The thread did contain the link to Nadev's ideas: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=261224#p1145963 - I guess it is time for us to rattle the cage and see if this has gone anywhere.
    I've messaged Nadev to see where he was at.
  2. This is a link to Sam's Horizontal dock: https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Making_a_horizontal_dock
    Does anyone have a version of this?

Parting thoughts

I am very grateful to Paul and Lei for Decaf.  And to Gareth, Mary and Richard - and probably others, who have engaged with the issue of trying to get a mashup of other themes with Awesomebar.  Principally in this thread: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=244717.  

I think from all comments there are two options with using AB:

  • a theme smart enough to choose to use the AB only in big screens.  
  • a different theme for mobile/tablet

Decaf really is all about Navigation.  There is not a lot of the bells and whistles of other themes.

Here is a summary of the best we've got for 2015:

  • The AwesomeBar - great navigation
  • Always shown "search" of Admin - gets you to the right page quick
  • Course Menu - section to section navigation.
  • Generico tabs - navigation inside a section. I've written this up here:  Navigation questions | Navigating inside a section
  • No sliders, PR spots, all user messages, Font Awesome etc.



This post got quite a bit off target with wider issues around navigation.

Hoping for a little better for whatever we do in 2016.

-Derek

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Re: Decaf 2015 | Awesome bar | comments re 3.0

autor Gareth J Barnard -
Obrázok: Core developers Obrázok: Particularly helpful Moodlers Obrázok: Plugin developers

Hi Derek,

Only a subset of Essential 'might' be heading for a 'premium theme future'!  Plus it is worth reviewing Essential in M2.9 because of the feature set.

Also, I'm currently working on Shoehorn for M3.0, then Shoelace....

You could also review Campus for M2.9 too.

I believe at this time that most contributed developers efforts are on getting their themes M3.0 ready rather than adding new features.  Thus reviewing the M2.9 version would have equal value.

You would not believe the amount of work I think Essential needs for M3.0!

Cheers,

Gareth

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Re: Decaf 2015 | Awesome bar | comments re 3.0

autor Derek Chirnside -

Point taken Gareth.  But my aim is very narrow.

This year for the first time since 2.0 I missed an upgrade to a point version. ie 2.9.  I did (over the years) 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 etc.  But I have never used a 2.9 version of Moodle.

We have one window to upgrade easily: January.  I was going to consider every 3.0-ready bootstrap based theme in the plug-in database.  And I ended up doing one not in the database.  (Snap)

Hacks: We did get a version of Essential + Decaf, but we created a maintenance nightmare.  You will no doubt be aware of the awesome hack NMIT have done.  On the basis of this experience, I'd like a theme I can customise enough just at the CSS level.  

Look and Feel: I also have preferences about lines around blocks, clutter of blocks: I'm trying to avoid the Moodle three column blocky look, for all the good reasons the research suggests.  I looked at one theme that had more than 13 different colours hard coded into the theme.  I'd like something discrete like this WP site: http://hispanicsummerprogram.org/.  White.  Clean.  I did have the romantic view maybe I'd find a theme in the database that I could use as is coding wise - with just restyling the colours into something a little more subdued.  This is I guess still a possibility.

I have now looked at 9 themes since last weekend, and in most of them I spent so much time scrolling and clicking with the menus that at the moment I feel like just sticking with Decaf and tolerating it's lack of panache.  I'm not going to single anyone out - but there are a few screen snaps in the database for non-theme plugins that are there to illustrate a product - in the context of long long menus and screen clutter that do no real service to lure a user.

Inside section navigation is still a bugbear.  You were the only person to respond to my question about navigation Here: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=316278#p1267453 and in fact you have hit the nail on the head: sections and subsections would do it.  But at the moment I don't have any finances.  All your good work with Grid and Collapsed still leads to scrolling and no navigation inside a section.  Snap is the first theme I've seen with something new.  BCU have said they'd like to ditch the Nav menu.

I'd like a system that I can give to staff to use without too many cludgy fixes.  Sometimes I agree with Darko in this telling conversation here.  https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=323798#p1300843  On the other hand we have this from 30 minutes ago from Nadev: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=261224#p1300875

So doing any looking at 2.9 ready themes we can't use in January would just be an academic exercise for me.  Sadly.

Are you sure you are not guiding the lily with Essential going to 3.0?  I may look at Shoehorn if that is going to be first off the rank.

Gareth, thanks for your post.  It is Sunday Morning here.  I've had two shoulder ops this year, and healing is going well.  Summer is coming.  Úsmev  There is a certain level of optimism in the air.  It may just work out with our upgrade.

-Derek

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Re: Decaf 2015 | Awesome bar | comments re 3.0

autor Gareth J Barnard -
Obrázok: Core developers Obrázok: Particularly helpful Moodlers Obrázok: Plugin developers

Hi Derek,

Thank you for your reply.  A quick initial one from me pertaining to Essential and Shoehorn.

At the moment I'm just thinking about it.  Nothing certain.  However to make all of the LESS changes etc. to Essential and test for M3.0 will take me 1 - 2 days, that is quite a bit of time!  There are currently 8889 sites actively using the theme, if I were to multiply that by 5p that would be 444.45 GBP, which would easily cover the time!

Of course, paid work has to come first, so whilst I have no business need for an M3.0 version and nothing new to learn by improving it (as learning other things, such as SASS for BS4 and its UMD modules and how they might become Moodle compatible AMD ones), then it will get done when it does or just may have to shrink to reduce the maintenance load.

Shoehorn, however is BS3 and I used that to gain skills in the upgrade process, along with the new BS 3.3.6 and FontAwesome 4.5 releases.

Kind regards,

Gareth

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Re: Decaf 2015 | Awesome bar | comments re 3.0

autor Richard Oelmann -
Obrázok: Core developers Obrázok: Plugin developers Obrázok: Testers

"I looked at Flexbase, but it is not 3x ready yet"

Hoping for a mid-December release Derek - I'm at Online Educa in Berlin next week and hope to get some opportunity to do some work on it between conference sessions (and Christmas Markets Úsmev )

It does work on 3.0, but I'm hoping to include some additional work before actually releasing a flexibase 3.0.

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