Advice please! Is Moodle safe?

Advice please! Is Moodle safe?

jesse magees གིས-
Number of replies: 16

Hi friends

I'm feeling a little confused now. I've been using Moodle very successfully with my classes for about a year now and I love using it and my students seem to be doing very well. 

Today I got a mail from my university telling me that Moodle is probably not safe, and possibly illegal....Because if any students' personal information gets leaked out the president of the university would be responsible.

Than I read an article this morning about how 70% of all wordpress sites are hacked within the first 12 months. I spent over 6 months of free time to create an ok looking website/blog that I'm currently working on and the thought of this terrifies me. To work so hard and than have it hacked and destroyed...

I'm very paranoid and frustrated. Is it possible for someone to hack the moodle server for our classes and get personal info? And what if the student use user names instead of real names and not post any personal information?

Can someone better inform me? It seems this is beyond my comprehension

Thank you and god bless!

(Edited by Mary Cooch - to remove unnecessary link to website - original submission Thursday, 30 April 2015, 4:21 PM)

དཔྱ་སྙོམས་ཀྱི་སྐུགས་ཚུ།: -
In reply to jesse magees

Re: Advice please! Is Moodle safe?

Rick Jerz གིས-
Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར Testers གི་པར

Jesse, I appreciate your issue.  I am not an expert on this but I will give you some of my ideas.

First, your University might have a point about security.  One thing you might want to do is install an SSL certificate.  Also, you should make sure to always install Moodle security updates.  If you have your own server, you should also install the server security updates.  Make sure to use adequate moodle password policies.  Doing these things, you would probably be able to claim that your moodle is equal, or more secure than most of the University systems.

Second, my guess is that your university is afraid of Moodle.  It is probably better than what they are using, your student comments about moodle are very positive, and better than what the school is using, and your school doesn't like being embarrassed by a faculty providing a higher quality learning environment than what you IT department can provide.  So they may be trying to make up some excuses as to why you cannot run Moodle.

Moodle is used by many schools throughout the world.  If moodle were not secure, very few major universities would be using it.  Right?

We read about computer software and systems being "hacked" every day.  The only way to keep computer systems, and information, secure is to not put information on any computer system.

Well, maybe my comments will stimulate some useful discussion for you.  Again, I am not an expert on this topic but any day could be in your same situation.

In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Advice please! Is Moodle safe?

Visvanath Ratnaweera གིས-
Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར Translators གི་པར
Jesse

Your university is right: Two LMS are less safe than one. Adding a second entrance to a building, independent of how 'secure' you made the door, is a potential security threat. The most secure servers are dead servers buried under layers of concrete!
སྐྱོ་བ།

If you haven't run away by now, we can take a breath and have a second look. If you are in a (big) institution and want to deploy Moodle or any other web service, on the security line you must have an idea of:
1. The types of security breaches you foresee
for each type:
2. The amount of damage
3. What security measures are required (with cost)
in total
4. The benefits of offering this service (Moodle)

Only then you can make a decision. Have you gathered such data?

P.S. Isn't this discussion more suitable under Security and privacy?
In reply to jesse magees

Re: Advice please! Is Moodle safe?

Usman Asar གིས-
Plugin developers གི་པར Testers གི་པར

Jesse,

Like you said wordpress sites were hacked, YES, but then there are reasons, just like you'll find more viruses and malwares for Windows platform than Linux or MAC, the main reason behind it is the market share, so if someone is developing the virus or trying finding security loopholes for something first thing coming into their mind is the market share, and wordpress does have a huge market share on blogging market, so you can expect hackers to continuously trying finding the security loopholes in wordpress code.

Now talking about Moodle, this is work of thousand of developers over a decade's work continuously improving over security, stability and functionality of Moodle. Where Moodle is out for more time than Wordpress (as you mentioned Wordpress), never in my years of experience in Moodle I have heard Moodle being hacked.

Though Moodle have documentation of restoring the site in case of attack, but then it is as well expected that the users have their own security parameters in place. 

Just in case (though very very unlikely) God forbids, that your Moodle gets hacked, then it's not Moodle's vulnerability, but your web and database servers and these things are out of scope of Moodle as a learning management system.

If you are too worried, get a Juniper SSG firewall on your server. 


In reply to jesse magees

Re: Advice please! Is Moodle safe?

Bret Miller གིས-
Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར

The more popular any software gets, the more hackers will try to compromise it--hence the constant attacks against WordPress. Securing Moodle is the same as securing any other web application:

  1. Make sure your environment is up-to-date. Developers are constantly finding security bugs in Windows, Linux, PHP, and other components that web applications depend on. If you don't apply ALL the security patches, then you're just asking to be hacked. If you're using shared hosting or someone else's server, the best you can do is ask them to keep it up-to-date. I recently had to change webhosts for Moodle because they simply wouldn't do this.
  2. Make sure your Moodle is up-to-date. As with the environment, not applying security patches or not staying on a supported version of Moodle is asking to be hacked.
  3. Secure the transmission. Get an SSL certificate (really cheap at ssls.com) and make your site https. Use www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/ to make sure the web server implements secure ciphers and protocols. Similar comments to #1--you may not be able to use secure ciphers and protocols if you don't control the environment or if you're using Windows.
  4. Make sure you have reasonable session timeouts and password rules. All the security in the world is useless if your teachers or students use "password" as their password.
In reply to Bret Miller

Re: Advice please! Is Moodle safe?

Rick Jerz གིས-
Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར Testers གི་པར

Bret, thanks for your tip about ssl.com.  I have never visited this site.

I am wondering which SSL one should consider?  I see that a "Positive SSL" is only $4.99/year, but is this all that one needs for a small site (i.e., my VPS)?  Then, I see a RapidSSL for $8.99/year, and many more.  I never knew that there were so many choices.  When I use the "helper" tool, it suggests a TrueBusinessID for $124.99/yr.  Hmmm.

In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Advice please! Is Moodle safe?

Bret Miller གིས-
Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར

SSL needs vary based on what you or your organization decide they needs. The cheapest $4.99/yr SSL certificate will give you domain validated encryption. Essentially, it means the certificate authority checked to make sure you have reasonable access to your domain before issuing you a certificate. The certificate enables encryption and that keeps the transmission secure.

Other options include validating the organization so if someone checks the certificate they can see it was issued to Your Company, Inc. and the certificate authority collected information on you and the organization to make reasonably sure you are authorized to obtain a certificate for that organization.

And then there is extended validation which in addition to validating your organization displays your company name in green in the address bar of the browser so site visitors know for sure what company they are visiting.

In my experience most people aren't savvy enough to care and as long as the browser isn't warning them not to use your site, the lock itself indicating an encrypted page is enough security to make most people comfortable. Note that big companies like American Express don't care enough to use extended validation, so why should I?

For a personal, non e-commerce site, you can actually get a free SSL cert from startssl.com.

HTH,
Bret

In reply to Bret Miller

Re: Advice please! Is Moodle safe?

Rick Jerz གིས-
Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར Testers གི་པར

Thanks, Bret.

I see that the free SSL seems to only be free for the first year.  I wonder if it would be better to pay for the SSL from ssl.com for 3 years, around $15 total.

In reply to Rick Jerz

Transport Layer Security (SSL/TLS)

Visvanath Ratnaweera གིས-
Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར Translators གི་པར
In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: Transport Layer Security (SSL/TLS)

Rick Jerz གིས-
Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར Testers གི་པར

Visvanath, thanks for your post.

The lesencrypt.org website looks appealing.  I have the same question, "Has anyone tried this?".  I might need to get an experimental server to give this a try.  I am not sure what would happen if this does not work.  For example, can the process be reversed?

In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: Transport Layer Security (SSL/TLS)

Bret Miller གིས-
Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར

According to https://letsencrypt.org/, they aren't operational yet. I will certainly look forward to when they are.

In reply to Bret Miller

Re: Transport Layer Security (SSL/TLS)

Daniel Neis Araujo གིས-
Core developers གི་པར Plugin developers གི་པར Translators གི་པར

Hello,


Let's Encrypt entered Public Beta this December 3rd, and I've used this to setup SSL Certificates on https://www.moodlebrasil.org and it worked pretty good with Apache. They should support other servers and services (soon or already) but I've not tried.


Kind regards,

Daniel

In reply to Daniel Neis Araujo

Re: Transport Layer Security (SSL/TLS)

Visvanath Ratnaweera གིས-
Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར Translators གི་པར
Hi all

Automatically checking the authenticity of a web service provider sound paradoxical to me. Still there must be a way of doing it, I saw that FSF supports Let's Encrypt: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/sysadmin/lets-encrypt-the-fsf-beta-tests-a-new-certificate-authority.
In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: Transport Layer Security (SSL/TLS)

Visvanath Ratnaweera གིས-
Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར Translators གི་པར
In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Advice please! Is Moodle safe?

Bret Miller གིས-
Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར

I'm in my second year on ssls.com so I haven't used StartSSL.com for a couple years. In the past, I could simply create a new certificate every year without cost. I would think that as long as you are within their guidelines for free certificates, you can probably still do that.

In reply to jesse magees

Re: Advice please! Is Moodle safe?

Howard Miller གིས-
Core developers གི་པར Documentation writers གི་པར Particularly helpful Moodlers གི་པར Peer reviewers གི་པར Plugin developers གི་པར

Am I right in presuming that your Moodle installation is not "approved" by your University? What we sometimes call an "under the desk" installation. 

IT departments spend a lot of time worrying about security whereas people running services "off the map" may not be so keen on that boring stuff. 

Perhaps this is what they are worried about rather than Moodle itself? Just a thought...