New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Darren Smith -
Number of replies: 28
I have been backing up and restoring courses today and it occurred to me the course settings page suffers from similar problems to the user profile page:
  • Information is not grouped logically
  • Seldom used settings are shown every time the page is accessed.
  • The page keeps getting longer
  • New Moodlers (Noodlers?) get confused.
As a result I have broken down the options into 3 tabs. As always this is just a means to open this open for discussion. This what I got when I looked at it:

Set Up

  • Category
  • Full Name
  • Short Name
  • ID Number
  • Summary
  • Format
  • Number of weeks

Access

  • Course Start Date
  • Enrollment duration
  • Availability
  • Enrollment key
  • Guest access
  • Meta Course?

Display

  • Group Mode
  • Availability
  • Hidden Sections
  • Show Grades
  • Show Activity reports
  • Word for Teacher
  • Word for Teachers
  • Word for student
  • Word for students
  • Force language
  • Force theme
  • Hidden Sections
  • New items to show
There is some overlap perhaps so it would be interesting to see what others think. Of course, if the options were split into tabs you could have more links in the admin block to jump straight to the settings you want (IE in this case links to course set up, access and display).

That said, you may need a slightly different page when the course is first created to stop people jumping around.

Upon Creation:
  • Category
  • Fullname
  • Shortname
  • ID
  • Summary
  • Format
  • Course Start Date
  • Number of sections
  • Enrollment
Also, speaking of the admin block. I would have found it very useful today to have had ....
  • Add section to the top
  • Add section to the bottom
... as I was tweaking the content. I Suppose you could also have the same for remove. Hmmmm. The admin block would get to long then wink Perhaps these could go in the proposed set up tab.
  • Add x sections to the top
  • Add x sections to the bottom
Obviously the latter is taken care of by also increasing the course sections.

Thoughts?




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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Darren Smith -
Nobody ? It seems to be getting longer sad

I was reminded of moodleFN today and they have solved the problem to a large extent. I am more keen on the fieldset solution rather than the sideways writing as it catched the eye better as your scan down but either are an improvement on what we have got and help group and chunk the settings and, more importantly, act as a reference for the eye to jump to the required section rather than a dependance upon learning / memorising the interface. I feel the settings would also be better displayed over two pages like the assignment module.

Any thoughts this time anyone? smile

Darren
Attachment course_settings_screenshot.jpg
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Darren Smith -
Compared with ....


Attachment moodle16_edit_course.jpg
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Darren Smith -
The very nice Robert Brenstein has been working on this and it is looking nice IMHO smile. The attached screenshop it a working page from Robert's site.

I wonder if we could move the discussion towards getting some kind of consensus upon the naming of the sections and which settings go where?

I have flagged this solution in bug #5219

Attachment course_solution.jpg
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Ray Lawrence -
This looks good to me too. Voting... now

Ray
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Paolo Oprandi -
The naming of the sections seems sensible. Is this improved layout going to be included in the general release or has the idea been superseded by another one? Moodle 1.6 beta 5 still has one long list of settings.
Paolo
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Timothy Takemoto -
I like it!
Perhaps there should be "Show" "Hide" buttons for each section.
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In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Darren Smith -
That would be an excellent addition
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by N Hansen -
I like the idea of chunking, but I don't really see a need for it to be over more than one page. If you put it on more than one page you run the risk of the teacher missing the second page altogether.
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In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Darren Smith -
Thanks for the reply.

You wouldn't miss the second page as the bottom of the first page it would have a next button and you would save on the second like you do with assignment types. Not ideal as there would be more clicks but it would be easier to manage/digest for non-techies / inexperienced moodlers.

If it were collapsed with butttons (like the settings when you add a new web link resource) and combined with the fieldset idea that would be the best solution IMHO approve. Perhaps the show / hide button could be the fieldset legend. No idea if that is technically possible but it would be a very cool move for useability.

Darren
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by N Hansen -
it would be easier to manage/digest for non-techies / inexperienced moodlers.

How does splitting the same content over two pages do that? What is so technical about content on one page versus two pages? I can believe it might be the case for some people, but I wouldn't make such a statement as fact. I personally like to have everything at once on one page where I can access it all and get an overview. If you have inexperienced Moodlers, you'd be better off improving the help items associated with the new options, because some of them are pretty weak.
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In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Darren Smith -
It's a fact based upon my experience with inexperienced moodlers but as I said I prefer the show/hide formfield solution.

I personally like to have everything at once on one page where I can access it all and get an overview

You must have a funny shaped monitor. I can get about 1/3 of it on at a time on the work's monitors and about 1/2 with my resolution at home thoughtful

Darren
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by N Hansen -
Yes, but I can scroll up and down whenever I want, which is better than going back and forth between pages. Going back and forth between pages you must save your changes on one page before moving to the next, having it all on one page you don't have to save anything until you have everything the way you like it. Leaving some options on another page might leave you forgetting what you set on the first page. I wouldn't have so much of a problem if you created some kind of tab system that would allow you to collapse and expand certain sections of the configuration as you like or for ones that are less often used, but I still think there should be the option to see it all at once.
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In reply to N Hansen

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Robert Brenstein -
If it was a multipage setup, I would vote for using the tab interface rather than continue, so we have non-linear access. Tabs are becoming quite common in Moodle, and since they show on top, they are more transparent as to what is on other pages (and that there is more than one page).

On the other hand, I feel there are still a tad too few items to make a multi-page setup and being able to see all with scrolling rather than having to hit the server each time we change a page is a plus. But then, visibly grouping and cleaning up alignment would be a big, big plus. Hiding sections, if offerred, would have to be optional IMHO.

A further plus would be the ability to define site-wide defaults, so we don't have to rely so much on creating template courses in backup format and restoring them to create new courses. That goes for all course settings.
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In reply to Robert Brenstein

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Darren Smith -
But then, visibly grouping and cleaning up alignment would be a big, big plus. Hiding sections, if offerred, would have to be optional IMHO.

Yes, I still feel strongly that they should be visually grouped. I still like the idea of the sections being hidden with a button (optional works for me smile).

A further plus would be the ability to define site-wide defaults,

This would be another great step forward in terms of providing teachers with a consistent and simple interface.

Darren


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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Jeff Forssell -
Defaults can simplify things greatly. It is important that it still be easy to override the defaults. Otherwise it might lead to endless meetings at a school about WHICH defaults to use. In a group of 10 teachers there will probably be about 12 different suggestions smile. (teachers are very dynamic!)  
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In reply to Jeff Forssell

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by N Hansen -
How about allowing the admin to set the defaults in their configuration? Something along the same lines of being able to set the default settings for a quiz by the admin would be nice.
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In reply to Robert Brenstein

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Paolo Oprandi -
Hi,

With regards to defining site-wide defaults

I would like to point to a module I am developing for Moodle 1.6:

http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=41658

It is accessed from the configuration pages. Obviously the enrolment and course creation mechanism that you are using has to be altered to use the defaults. So far, I have used the IMS enterprise enrolment plugin and also adapted the manual course creation page.

It will need updating for moodle 1.6 beta, but should work for testing as it doesn't interfere with much.

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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Julian Ridden -
This is a great idea and wouldnt be too hard to shape. Has anyone added this to the bugtracker yet? If you want any action it eally needs to sit there and get voted on.
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In reply to Julian Ridden

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Darren Smith -
Goo point, thanks.

Raised as Bug #5219
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Julian Ridden -
For those that were not aware of this, the bugtracker serves two purposes. The first, as the name suggests, is for the logging, tracking and fixing of bugs that may appear in the code.

The second, and most visible impact from the average user's perspective, is the ability to request changes and ammendments to Moodle and thus help shape Moodles future development.

As Darren has done, you can create a request and then have others vote on it. If a decent number of votes appear, developers know that this is a feature that is worth persuing.

So, get started adding and voting for the features taht you want to see and help us further shape Moodle to the needs of todays and tomorrows teachers.
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In reply to Julian Ridden

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Paolo Oprandi -
Yes, it has come up in my institution too.  Definitely, needs to be a better organised because, as it is, it is very daunting for new comers. 
Good suggestion, Darren.
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In reply to Paolo Oprandi

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Robert Brenstein -
I wonder whether it would make sense to have all help buttons in their own column between item labels and the user-provided content. It could reduce the optical clutter further and make it more explicit which items have help info. This would be a departure, though, from Moodle practice so far. May be Darren could spend a few mins to make another jpeg for us to compare. Those help buttons sprinkled around sorta randomly bother me on quite a few Moodle pages.
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In reply to Robert Brenstein

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Darren Smith -
Wow. What a difference. Much neater and clearer.

Obviously some items have 2 or more help icons for one table row so they would have to either go into one html page or be combined with php include or whatever.
Attachment moodle16_edit_course_aligned_help.jpg
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Darren Smith -
Here is a grouped screenshot with buttons- I really think my screen shot doesn't do the idea justice shy. Obviously where items go and what each section is called is just a representation.

I have grouped the help even further so you have one button for each section. I guess this would pop up a list of anchor tags that would combine the individual help IYSWIM.

Darren
Attachment moodle16_edit_course_buttons.jpg
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Robert Brenstein -
I love the extra column. It looks better than I thought it would. approve

I wonder whether there are any situations that really require more than one help button PER ROW. Each row should deal with one item of information only after all.

The grouped version may not work well IMHO. A single help page for the entire group of items will need to be longer and thus harder to read/process (as in locating/extracting specific details) and the writers may become inclined to provide less info. A popup list of anchor tags would not be an optimal solution either IMHO. Requires more cognitive effort and manual manipulation.

the extra column approach could be quite easily adopted by other Moodle pages, like user profiles or activity settings.
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Timothy Takemoto -

When you say screenshot, does that mean you have coded it?!

Tim

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In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Darren Smith -
'Fraid not. My PHP coding skills don't go much beyond 'hello world'. I just modified the images in Fireworks.

Darren
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: New Course Settings Interface Anyone?

by Paolo Oprandi -

The Minted course profile plugin 2.0 is designed in part to resolve this issue. It allows the course settings page to be simplified by seperating it into advanced and basic settings (like the quiz settings). These are configurable at site level and at a moodle category level (which normally translates to departmental level).

Select here for more information, screenshots and to download

Cheers,
paolo

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