Moodle in English: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Mike Churchward - Wednesday, 22 June 2005, 9:25 PM

I had the pleasure of attending the Moodle Moot NE, in Byfield MA this past few days. It was great meeting so many fellow Moodlers - very validating.

During the course of the conference, a number of "Ah Ha's" hit me. Thought I'd share these with all of you. Some of these may be more obvious to you than they were to me, so I apologize in advance if I state the obvious.

There are some great teachers out there.
As a parent, it gets easy to criticize when I feel teachers are just "going about their jobs". Meeting so many energized teachers who obviously care about what they do will make me think twice in the future.
Moodle makes a great classroom tool.
Coming from an e-learning / distance learning discipline, I was amazed that so many people use it in the classroom. Even more amazing was how effective they found it and how much it helped improve learning.
Moodle is not about information, its about communication.
This one should have been more obvious. I've struggled with explaining why Moodle can be so much more effective than other systems. I think this is why. Most other system are about presenting information and the assessing the student absorption. Moodle approaches it from communication first. "Let's interact while we absorb information."
Moodle records your teaching/learning successes/failures.
By spending time going back through your completed sessions, you can improve your next one. Almost all of the interactions are there for you to review. You don't need to rely on memory.
Moodle.org intimidates some.
This one scared me. We need to make sure that Moodlers don't feel this way. That they realize they are free to participate without fear.

It was a great few days, and I'm glad I had the opportunity to meet people in person.

mike

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by N Hansen - Wednesday, 22 June 2005, 9:55 PM

Why do they feel intimidated? Do you think it is the nature of Moodle.org itself or just their personality? I mean some people prefer just to read online forums rather than participate in them. Some people also expect validation through an online forum-lots of little niceties and appreciation and thanks, whereas others are just interested in the information they can glean.

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Mike Churchward - Wednesday, 22 June 2005, 10:18 PM

Not completely sure, but I think its fear of getting in over their heads in a technical discussion. A lot of what gets discussed here is fairly technical.

I think we need to emphasize the non-technical discussions and courses so that these people see both.

mike

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by N Hansen - Wednesday, 22 June 2005, 11:59 PM

But isn't the point of Using Moodle that people can come here and ask for information about things that are currently over their heads so that they can get them inside their heads, so to speak? I don't think there is an easy solution for this other than to develop the Moodle documentation more. There are always going to be some people who are too afraid to look stupid publicly so they stupidly are reluctant to remedy their lack of knowledge by asking questions in a public forum that will make them more knowledgeable.

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Mike Churchward - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 12:10 AM

Okay. I was hoping to keep this discussion positive, because that's what I was feeling when I left the Moot. The intimidation people feel is something we should all be aware of, and prepared to deal with.

The discussion has now focused on the one thing that could be considered negative, and that is a shame, because the Moot really was a positive experience.

Nicole, if I was already feeling initimidated, and I read your response, I don't think I would feel more invited. In fact, I would likely be even more afraid to post. What you say may have truth to it, but there are ways of expressing that without scaring people away.

mike

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by N Hansen - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 1:31 AM

My point is that there is nothing inherently intimidating about the atmosphere here, other than that some of the discussions may be above the heads of some people (even me). But so what? That should be an indicator to people that there are people here who have extensive knowledge and might be able to help them. It is also very obvious that many of the people come here to increase their knowledge, not just talk about what they already know. A look at any forum reveals many threads with question marks and the word "help" in them. I just don't feel that it is the environment that is intimidating, but that there are people who inherently themselves feel intimidated by asking questions in public, and I really don't think there is anything more that we can do in these forums to make them feel more comfortable-this has got to be one of the most welcoming, inclusive and helpful sites on the internet.

I don't believe there is such a thing as stupid questions. The only stupid question is the one that someone is afraid to ask. If someone has a problem and doesn't seek help for it when it is readily available, then they have only themselves to blame.

When I gave a talk on Moodle here in Chicago, one of the things I stressed as one of the best things about Moodle was these forums, that they are kind of like having your own design/support team. That you could come here and ask all sorts of questions and get them answered, often very quickly. I would hardly have said something like this if this group was at all intimidating.

I just don't see eye-to-eye with you on this one. I dont' think there is anything wrong with the way these forums work at the moment. I think we need to make a distinction between actual intimidating behavior by people in these forums (which I don't think there is), and personal internal feelings of intimidation that some people might have about public forums.

Certainly, there are things that can be done to help people who have a problem with posting questions in a public forum. The documentation can be improved so they can read the answers to their questions without asking them. Or if someone is really too afraid to ask a question publicly, there are always Moodle partners that I am sure would help them for a fee. However, I don't think there is a single person here who acts in an intimidating way towards people asking questions and I don't think there really is anything more that these forums can do to help people who have a feeling of intimidation than people here are already doing, and doing a good job too!

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Martin Dougiamas - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 4:33 AM

Nicole, Mike was just relaying something he'd heard others say at the conference. Obviously he didn't feel that before then, which is why conferences with people NOT on this site can be so useful.

Personally I agree with the people who expressed this feeling and I think a few simple changes would help, such as the documentation project and also perhaps some better layout on the home page. I'm working on it.

As for the other points, Mike, they are a great summary, thanks for posting them!!!

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Darren Smith - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 5:39 AM

By home page do you mean the main moodle homepage or this course page?

I recently enrolled some students here and they found the course I wanted them to OK but they got a little overwhelmed by the amount of forums here.

I feel the mini descriptions in the features demo work well wink

but that may perhaps make this course page too long.

Is there a case for splitting the using moodle course into 2 courses?

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Janne Mikkonen - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 5:43 AM

Some get intimidated? But why?

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by W Page - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 6:06 AM

We know you are just a big TeddyBear Janne as well as being a MoodleGuru. BTW, how is the little one doing?

Peace,

WP1

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Janne Mikkonen - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 4:49 PM

Hi WP1,

She's doing just great! I'm very fortunate that I can work at home (imagine all the stuff I'd be missing if I werent) and I'm loving every second to be a round her.

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Bryan Williams - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 8:19 PM

Janne,

You are a lucky man, enjoy this time as it flys by quickly. Soon, you will be an old Homer. big grin

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Bernard Boucher - Saturday, 25 June 2005, 6:32 AM

Hi Janne,
very nice.
But I am surprised that she is not dressed with:

Enjoy,

Bernard

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Don Hinkelman - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 10:17 AM

Darth Janne. evil

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Drew Buddie - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 6:37 AM

N Hansen said:

"My point is that there is nothing inherently intimidating about the atmosphere here..."

I have to say I wholeheartedly agree. I am a technical klutz as Dale Jones, Sean Keogh or Ian Usher (to name but 3) would agree. Yet, even *I* feel welcomed by this forum. I have never, ever, come across such a bunch of knowledgeable, clever, helpful, benevolent, encouraging, enthusiastic peers as in this forum. No post is EVER patronising. If a post is too technical for me, I just do not read it. But, never, ever would I want to stifle the terrific badinage and camaraderie that there is in this forum.

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Andy Diament - Friday, 24 June 2005, 4:54 PM

Barriers to participation in forums - I was actually thinking about this the other week with some colleagues in the Open University, where we use FirstClass extensively and increasingly. I got thinking about the various things that put me off participating, not just moodle.org but other forums:

Is it timely? Discussions on moodle.org in particular are played out very fast and you can feel that you are adding too little too late
In f2f conversations, you choose carefully when where you join someone else's conversation - the same can apply online - you can feel that you are imposing on someone elses' soical group, even though noone here actually mkes me feel that way.
'Me too' syndrome - someone has already made the point you would make, so there is little left to say except agree
Overload - many forums, many postings in the daily email
Fear of being simplistic - I occasionally put ideas forward to help others, but worried that they might be seen as obvious, unsophisticated

Can anyone think of any other barriers and how they can be overcome?

Andy D

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Richard Treves - Monday, 27 June 2005, 3:48 PM

OU? Which faculty? I keep on looking a science courses, would love to tutor one again but I loathe the marking.

FirstClass? Now that takes me back... I'm still saying 'conference' occaisionally instead of forum.

I think the big problem is that if you come into a conversation that is part way through you feel:

I am stupid and everyone else is really clever because I don't understand parts of this thread

Millions of people will read my posting

Rich

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's" -- facultyroom.org

by Art Lader - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 1:36 AM

When our teachers tell me they find Moodle.org a little overwhelming, I send them to Facultyroom.org. It is smaller and quieter than Moodle.org and less concerned with technical aspects of Moodle. Sometimes, that seems to help.

-- Art

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Helen Foster - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 6:30 AM

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your post - it makes me really look forward to the UK Moodle Moot! big grin

Personally, I can relate to your points 2. and 3.

2. Moodle makes a great classroom tool - for motivating students who would never think of doing any work outside the classroom! big grin

3. Moodle is not about information, its about communication. Staff at my college are discovering that using Moodle doesn't necessarily mean extra work - they set up opportunities for students to communicate then leave them to learn from each other! big grin

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Bernard Boucher - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 7:46 AM

Hi Mike,
Thanks for that summary. I am happy to meet you, Martin and many other Moodlers there. Sharing experience in many very differents domains and situations is extremely instructive.

Even if I started to use, program and construct computers in the beginning 1970's, Moodle is my first occasion to used them out of and industrial context, with a communication view principally with the help of the forums. For my slow and innacurate english translator it take some time but it worth the effort.

Social encourters with Moodlers external to MoodleMoot activities worth alone the cost and the time to get there and to comeback home. Personnal, pedagogical and technical points where aborded freely in an simple and funny way.

It is a real application of social constructivism!

For the intimidation of Moolde.org, when there are too many posts my slow translator is intimidated and I skip blush

some!

A better search ( searching documentation, forums, wikis, ... at same time ) and trying to give answers showing search results and explaining how to get these results alone can make new Moodlers more comfortables: many answers ( not all ) are available from poeples and also from the search engine and you have the choice.

Maybe some form of automated help desk could help the intimidated Moodlers but I never tried these products.

Salutations from Québec,

Bernard,

p.s. In the return, a giant moose touch my car mirror. Maybe the word Safari on my door intimidated him thoughtful

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Mike Churchward - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 10:01 AM

Yikes! So glad it stopped short of running in to you. Those things can be deadly.

It was great meeting you too Bernard. Hope we meet up again sometime.

mike

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Tony Hursh - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 11:24 AM

Yes indeed, and not just to motorists.

When I was an undergraduate at the University of Alaska Anchorage, we had a Korean visitor trampled to death by a cow moose, right on campus.

Unfortunately he got between the moose and her calf.

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Bernard Boucher - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 8:55 PM

Hi Mike,
me too for the next meeting.
Bye,

Bernard

p.s. A little bit off topic but a new tabbed course format is on the way here to save your screen realestate in 640*480 mode.

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Don Hinkelman - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 10:12 AM

Great summary, Mike! Some comments...

2. Moodle makes a great classroom tool.
I was amazed that so many people use it in the classroom. Even more amazing was how effective they found it and how much it helped improve learning

I think we will see this trend exploding. I see blended learning as the key (and love to say "elearning is dead!"--in the sense that it was overlauded as a great solution). All my use of Moodle and training of others is for blended class/online learning.

5. Moodle.org intimidates some.
This one scared me. We need to make sure that Moodlers don't feel this way. That they realize they are free to participate without fear.

Moodle *always* intimidates the people I train--but its not Moodle--its the new way of communicating. Unless I have someone well-versed in forums or online tools, they have to go through a huge mental learning curve to understand these new ways of communicating. Just going from the email world into the mailing list world is a big leap. Then going from mailing lists to forums is another leap. Then forums to CMS. Sometimes it takes years to understand what is going on in collaborative exchange, or even how to respond to a forum publicly or privately.

If you have an experienced CMS user (WebCT or BB especially) to train, they will respond to Moodle as a heavenly godsend. But anyone else will be intimidated until they experience online, web-based communication. Also, when training raw teachers, I have overwhelmed them by trying to teach too many modules at once--or handing out a hundred page user's guide. That is also a mistake. Teach only the forums and choice at first. If you venture into quizzes on the first session, watch out.

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by N Hansen - Thursday, 23 June 2005, 7:35 PM

Good points Don. And if it is teachers who are intimidated by forums, they better get over that feeling quickly, or how on earth will the ever be able to teach using them? thoughtful

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Tony Hursh - Friday, 24 June 2005, 12:44 AM

Yes. I usually show a new teacher:

how to create a forum
how to upload a file and link to it as a resource
how to link to an external web page as a resource

That's enough to get most of our novice instructors started. Of course, mileage may vary depending on the subject and the local instructional style (for example, it looks like forum and choice are the best ones for your situation). The key point is, as you say, not trying to dump all the modules on them at once. Bricolage, my friend. Bricolage.

I do point out all the other stuff on the menus, but I usually just say something like "..and here's all this other neat stuf you can learn about later". Then I show them the help button and turn them loose.

It works great!

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by koen roggemans - Friday, 24 June 2005, 11:54 PM

When in group and all particepants have access to a computer, I also show them how to make in no time a giant quiz, using the gift import (with a file I prepare knipoog

).

It's a "killing application": everyone likes quick, efficiënt evaluation with feedback without spending evenings behind a red pen. Certainly when it's not difficult to make.

I know this is not the spirit and the power of Moodle, but teachers here can use Moodle, but they are not obliged or even encouraged to do that. Once they are sold, it's easyer to get their attention for the real stuff.

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Gina Russell Stevens - Friday, 1 July 2005, 2:44 AM

Hi Mike,

It was great meeting you, Martin and so many others f2f at Moodlemoot NE! And thanks for sharing your "Ah Ha's" - they seem to really capture the tremendous enthusiasm, dedication and spirit of the moodlers in attendance. I have benefited tremendously over the years, both personally and professionally, from extending relationships initiated in virtual communities into "real" f2f people-to-people connections.

I thought you (and others posting in this thread) might be interested in this...

Tom Murdock has graciously set up a new Moodle installation MoodleMoots USA to serve as a centralized site for planning and posting information about all "Moots" being convened across the United States.

If you're interested in viewing or discussing what happened at Moodlemoot NE in Byfield, MA June 20-21... or what will happen at MoodleMoot US in Overland Park, KS on July 29th (see upcoming events) please visit: www.moodlemoot.us

Also, if you would like to help maintain this new site, or you are planning any type of Moodle meeting or conference in the USA and would like to create a "course" area for it at www.moodlemoot.us, please e-mail Tom so that he can give you the appropriate user access.

Again, it was great meeting MartinD, the MoodleQuestionnaire module wizard (Mike), and so many other interesting moodlers!

Happy mooting!
~Gina

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by Chris Stowens - Saturday, 2 July 2005, 10:09 PM

I attended the conference as well and just finished (for the 2nd time) an intensive week-long workshop on constructing Moodle pages/classes. I read what everyone has written and want to let you know what we at GDA in scenic Byfield have been thinking. There is a lot to learn about Moodle and the interests are difficult to address in single seminars. There are teachers and administrators and IT guys and developers all in the same room at the same time. Next time, as the folks who organized MoodlemootNE did this time - they adapted on the run to people's demands and interests - there will be a better array of discussion going on simultaneously to satisfy all of the above. It ain't easy organizing these things and Susan Chase and Aaron Mandel did a fine job, but we did all sit down and figure out what to do differently and better in the future.

I approach the "intimidation" factor with naivete. I am technologically adept, but I strive to make my pages/classes all works of art (I teach in the Arts, so why not?) and they are getting netter every year. Moodle is too big and changing to worry about. For me as an individual, a teacher, it works great

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Re: Moodle Moot NE - "Ah Ha's"

by cdx cdx - Sunday, 3 July 2005, 7:47 PM

Hi Chris and the GDA team. you did a wonderful job of adjusting on the fly and it was Greatly appreciated! GDA is a beautiful location, facility, and the GDA team were very sensitive to everyone's feedback. thanks again!

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