Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by David Smith -
Number of replies: 19

I have made websites for people for many years now (mostly basic HTML sites, but some that used PHP/My SQL, Flash, and Javascript), but have only recently considered dropping all of the cumbersome coding/debugging/security fixes in favor of a good Content Management System. I looked at Joomla pretty extensively, and it unfortunately will not meet the needs of my current client without some custom extensions. Given that I have no experience creating custom extensions with Joomla, I would be forced to hire someone else to develop one for me to meet my client's deadline, and I couldn't afford that.

So now I'm looking at Moodle. The problem I may have with Moodle is that my client needs an online defensive driving course that is very different from what I've been seeing from many of the sample Moodle sites. I'm not sure if Moodle can accomplish what I need done.


It seems Moodle will have no problem taking care of securely accepting credit card payments, embedding flash and audio clips, and administering quizes and test. But, here's the hard part: The course needs to keep track of how long a user has spent viewing a page and administer a test to the student at the end of each chapter. The student has three attempts to pass each test; if failed, the user must restart the course at the beginning. Due to state regulations, a user must view each section of each chapter for a minimum of 30 seconds before being able to move on to the next section. Additionally, whenever a user moves on to the next section, the site will randomly sometimes navigate to an intermediary page that prompts the user for information such as his/her drivers license number as a way of verifying that the proper user is still taking the course. The system needs to be able to keep track of where the user is in the course. It would help to have a countdown displayed that shows how much longer a user must spend on a section before being allowed to move on to the next section. Also, the course MUST be viewed sequentially. A user cannot view just any section of any chapter. For example, to view section 2 of chapter 1, the user must first "finish" section 1 of chapter 1 (When I say "finish", I mean view the section for at least 30 seconds). To view section 5 of chapter 3, the user must first finish ALL sections up to and including section 4 of chapter 3, as well as pass the tests for chapters 1 and 2.

The course must also meet the rigorous security requirements by my state's department of transportation. The state will actually do everything they can do hack and "break" the site before deciding whether or not it is secure enough to be recongized as a certified online defensive driving course that people can actually use to dismiss their tickets.

The course is also not like a typical online course. There is no "instructor" or syllabus or anything.


I know that Joomla won't allow me to meet the needs of my client, so was hoping Moodle would. If Moodle could let me do that, could anyone point me to specific tools/modules/extensions that I'd need?

Also, how hard is it to learn how to use Moodle? Any great books for learning it that you would recommend?

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In reply to David Smith

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Colin Fraser -
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In the latest version of Moodle, 2.1, there is a set of activities you can use based on conditions you set. If a respondent does not meet the basic conditions they cannot get past a point. I am not sure that a timer is included as part of the conditional activity, but asking questions based on information buried in a document can ensure the respondent has read it - therefore spent time in the document.

As for learning Moodle, if you can read, and use a keyboard, which you have already demonstrated above, then you are well on the way to becoming a Moodle expert...smile  Moodle is like chess, you can pick up the basics in a few minutes of playing with it, but it can take years to truely master.

I know I am a convert, so my opinion here may be a little suspect, but of all the learning LMS I have used, (Blackboard, WebCT - premerger, and other, no longer existing, tools) Moodle is by far the best of them. It provides a range of options others do not and it offers support that is far more extensive than any other tool. It fits almost anywhere, without having to install special environmental tools which means it affords you, or anyone else the opportunity to be as superficial as you like or as technical as you want to be in your use of it.  On the down side, Moodle is not a be-all and end-all tool, it is a tool, so it is limited in some ways and flawed in others, look at the wiki module -ugghh, or better don't. It is brilliant too, look at the book module for concentrated resourses, on-line, offline and uploading of assignment responses. It does not do e-portfolios and some other things, but who cares, there are other PHP Apps that can do those things better anyway and it wont be too much longer when we will be able to integrate these things far more easily. I suspect. Good luck and I hope you find Moodle will do what you need it to.

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In reply to Colin Fraser

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by David Smith -

Thank you for your response!

You do make a good case for Moodle.

Unfortunately, in order for Moodle to work for my client, it MUST keep track of the time the student spends on each section. If Moodle can't do that, then the state won't grant my client a license to operate the website as a valid defensive driving course.

Just to give an idea of other stuff the site is required to do, here's just a small subset of all the rules the state gives:

"

(1)  Course topics. The time requirements for each unit and the course as a whole described in §176.1108(a)(1)(C) and (D) and §176.1109(a)(1)(C) and (D) of this title shall be met.

 

(d)  Content validation. The ADM shall incorporate a course content validation process that verifies student participation and comprehension of course material, including the following.

(1)  Timers. The ADM shall include built-in timers to ensure that 300 minutes of instruction have been attended and completed by the student.

(2)  Testing the student's participation in multimedia presentations. The ADM shall ask at least 1 course validation question following each multimedia clip of more than 60 seconds.

(A)  Test bank. For each multimedia presentation that exceeds 60 seconds, the ADM shall have a test bank of at least 4 questions.

(B)  Question difficulty. The question shall be short answer, multiple choice, essay, or a combination of these forms. The question shall be difficult enough that the answer may not be easily determined without having viewed the actual multimedia clip.

(C)  Failure criteria. If the student fails to answer the question correctly, the ADM shall either require the student view the multimedia clip again or the ADM shall fail the student from the course. If the ADM requires the student to view the multimedia clip again, the ADM shall present a different question from its test bank for that multimedia clip. The ADM may not repeat a question until it has asked all the questions from its test bank.

(D)  Answer identification. The ADM shall not identify the correct answer to the multimedia question."

In reply to David Smith

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Tim Hunt -
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This really is like a worst-case-scenario of pedagogy designed by committee, isn't it? It really is depressing.

Moodle cannot, itself, measure time spent on each screen (and there is absolutely no way it can determine whether the student has solitaire or minesweeper open in another window to pass the time while the waiting for the timer to get to zero).

You will have to do at least some hacking around with the code to implement the timing. Options include:

1. Find some SCORM authoring software that supports this sort of time restriction. Use that to author the content and plug it into Moodle. Use Moodle to administer the tests.

2. Work out if you could do all the content in the Book module (3rd party plug-in) and then hack the book module to enforce the time limit per page.

3. Do a more extensive hack, perhaps based on the conditional activities code, to implement the time limit.

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In reply to David Smith

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Colin Fraser -
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mmm Moodle can do all that, but for the timers. Having said that, I would think that there may be something out there in the Modules and Plugins that may be useful.

I understand there is a very simple timing funtion in PHP and that can be called, so I imagine if you were to ask this question in the General Developers Forum, someone may respond with something more than I can help with. The question would be how it can be recorded, it would have to be in the Markbook module.

Moodle's native question bank would allow you to mix it up with any number of questions in almost any format you like.  Conditional activities will control the progress of a candidate, failure to meet the criteria, no progression to the next activity so that is not an issue. It will also allow a side step, I understand, to a complementary page that is used in the event an incorrect question is asked and there needs be a different question relating to the same material.

I would expect that this is mostly straight forward, for Moodle, but the timer thing... there has to be some bugbear somewhere... and I think there may be something for Moodle 2.1, if there is an older module that can be updated to meet v2.0 standards. All you can do is ask, but I would be disappointed if someone did not suggest something workable..

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In reply to Colin Fraser

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Colin Fraser -
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mmm that is what happens when called away in the middle of writing an answer to a question. Oh well...

The question then would be does David, or someone close to him,  have the prerequisite skills to be able to implement this kind of solution Tim? I suggest this timing issue is a nonsense, it is in this age of multitasking OSes, anyway. It is arguable that bureaucracies have never been noted for their technical comprehension or expertise so they impose conditions that sound "reasonable" that is their logic can be justified, but the reality is that their demands are unjustifiable. That is probably not a fight that David may be willing to get involved in, but it could be pointed out to them - then watch them huff and puff.

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In reply to Colin Fraser

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Mike Forbes -

Trust me, I searched. I had the Moodle providers search. There is an old timing module but it is outdated and to make it work with Moodle 2 the author "at the moment (has) no time to do it". If someone does update it, will it work when Moodle 2.1 etc. comes along?

In reply to David Smith

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Robert Brenstein -
David, you might want to talk to the author of the Timestat Block block. He might have ideas for customizing Moodle to do timers and tracking for your site.
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In reply to Robert Brenstein

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Mike Forbes -
I write my course (in
In reply to David Smith

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Mike Forbes -

I believe all of this can be accomplished by Lectora from Trivantis. It is a powerful and very reasonable cost authoring (?) program with a big discount for accredited schools. Then you can upload your courses to Moodle to act as your LMS.

I have written my courses so as the student has to study for a fixed period of time before they can pass the course. There are quizzes and exams that they must also complete with a certain %. I am almost positive that there is a way to program each page for a certain time before they can advance. It will handle audio, video etc. There can be a data bank of questions that rotate. YOu can do any varity of questions, essay, short answer, True and false, multiple choice but the program will not "score" some of them (like essay etc.) You of cfourse have to develop the questions. THere can be immediate feedback on the questions or they can find how they did at the end of the session. If you don't want them to know if their answer is correct or not that can be done very easily. Look into Lectora and then take it to Moodle.

I didn't take advantage of it but Trivantis has full Lectora training (more $$$) But there are also several Lectora users groups that are supportive and the program comes with a quite good manual.

This is an answer I know to your "problem" and, in my research, the only way that I could find to address the same issues you are facing.

Then, after you have that working you can teach me how to do the same thing. I am using Lectora and another (Expensive - restrictive) LMS and when I find some free time to learn and use Moodle I would love to switch.

 

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In reply to David Smith

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by David Smith -

Big thanks to everyone who has responded to me. You have all been a great help. I love the Moodle community already.

Mike, thank you for referring me to Lectora! You contacted some developers who work with Moodle, and they couldn't even get your course to work under the restrictions even with custom made modules/tools/add-ins? I was hoping to be able to hire someone to make a custom tool for me in Moodle that could help me. I posted a listing on the jobs section here as a small contract job, but no responses so far.

Lectora seems like it would work, but the caveat here is that it is prohibitively expensive. I am a newbie web developer; I have nearly ten years of experience writing code in C/C++, CISC assembly, Java, HTML, and even some obscure languages like Python, but am new to PHP and the web applicable side of Javascript. I unfortunately may have taken off more than I can chew with a client. He's a family friend who knows my strong background in software, and knows I am having to learn some things before I can get the online course up for his defensive driving company. He was kind enough to give me this project, and I accepted as a way to expand my skills and hopefully make some money as a freelance web developer. I foolishly agreed to a small budget before fully realizing all the costs that would go into this project (didn't expect having to pay so much for graphics designers, animators, artists, and narrators). Needless to say, Lectora is way outside of the budget, even if I could get 50% off. If it came down to it, I could try to get him to pay for Lectora, but I'd rather exhaust all other options first. Also, I'd rather use Moodle if I could, as I'd hate to invest the time learning Lectora, only to never use it again. I think I'd be able to use Moodle for future clients, as most online courses don't have the ridiculous requirements that governments mandate.

Tim Hunt, I agree with you completely about how ridiculous the requirements are. Fortunately, the online course isn't required to check that the student has the browser window containing the course focused. I've taken these online defensive driving courses before and actually watched Youtube videos in another tab while waiting for the timer to expire on my current section. As far as your potential solutions, it would seem that your first solution would work, though it would be too expensive for me, I think. Lectora is a SCORM authoring peice of software, but it is too expensive. Your second solution seems like it may be my best bet. I do not currently have the skills to hack the Book module to impose a time limit, but perhaps I could hire someone who does have the skills? Could I maybe contact the author of the Book module? I could only afford to pay a few hundred dollars at most, though, as that's all that's left in my budget. Your third solution sounds like it might be harder to accomplish than the second.

Colin, I will poke around on the General Developers forum.

Robert, I will contact the author of the Timestate Block block.

Again, thank you Colin, Tim, Mike, and Robert for all of your help. I really appreciate it.

In reply to David Smith

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by David Smith -

Also, one more quick question.

Considering my needs, it is advisable to use Moodle versions 1.9x or 2.x?

I would think the latest 1.9x versions would be more secure and stable. Plus, there are books written for learning moodle that use 1.9. I don't see any introductory books for Moodle using 2.0. It seems like if I were to use Moodle 2.x, it would be more difficult to learn how to use Moodle, given that I'd be having to learn from a book that uses 1.9

There is, however, a Moodle For Dummies book coming out next month. I'd bet that it uses Moodle 2.0 since it's so new. But I don't know if I have time to wait until next month to really start learning Moodle. Then again, my client's deadlines aren't exactly very strict. Hmmm...

In reply to David Smith

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Mike Forbes -

In my attempt to find a way to have Moodle do timing it appeared that anyone who might be interested in writing such a module would be quite expensive. And it likely would become outdated if your customer adopted the latest Moodle version.

I was also told that if there were any problems/bugs down the road you are back to your writer. The writer that developed the timing program many years ago now is not interested in continuing to update it.

Good luck, and if you find a solution let me know and I will check into it

In reply to Mike Forbes

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Colin Fraser -
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Without doubt, go to the latest version, which will be probably v2.1.x by the time you are ready. A few reasons, but essentially, it can be reasonably expected that Moodle 1.9.x will be mostly dead in the water by the end of next year. Once the major institutes move over, (northern) summer 2012 is the target date for most of them, it wont be long before everyone else does. It will continue, but support will fall shorter and shorter and by the end of 2013, I expect there wont be much left of it, so you may as well start from the newest tool first. You are starting from scratch, so you have the advantage of not having to worry about updating courses to Moodle 2.2 or later, which may not be that easy when the time comes.

If you do decide the SCORM route, there are a number of SCORM packages, including one from Microsoft, (haha it actually works believe it or not, well it used to, but I cannot remember what it was called) that will write SCORM content at either open source cost or minimal purchase price. I have never used it for timing, but I am sure that between the HTML and Javascript there should be something to allow you to develop it.  One such tool was Reload Editor, which is still available. There are others, DataLearn for example. From memory, there was something about timing things in Reload.. but whether that was a minimum or maximum time.. I am just not sure. Sorry I cannot be of more help, definitely an interesting challenge...

 

EDIT: I just went into the Darkside, at great personal risk of course, and they have a thing called Learning Content Development System that can be used in conjunction with Silverlight. So that may offer a reasonable alternative. All you have to do is register in the Darkside and you can download it. But having now read the response from Mike, and looking at the Moodle 2.0.x Lesson, that offers an opportunity I have not seen before... mmmmm Thanks Mike..

In reply to David Smith

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

Just to point out that a SCORM package is just a zip file containing HTML + CSS + Javascript  ( + images, videos, etc.) and where the JavaScript uses a certain API to communicate information back to Moodle.

While authoring tools like Lectora make creating SCORM packages easier for people who want WYSWIG, if you are a real developer, you may be able to hand-craft them.

Or, create them using an open-source tool like http://exelearning.org/wiki, and then hand-tweak the JavaScript.

In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Mike Forbes -

I am going to be look into Captivate for my authoring program. It is supposed to be able to do everything we need and is quite inexpensive. It will replace Lectora which is giving me problems with timing at the moment.

In reply to David Smith

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Mike Forbes -

Found another old email relating to timing. If you have your customer use Lambda Solutions (a Moodle Provider) they say that "yes, you can time track students within course." erynn.troniak@lambdasolutions.net

She continues;

A Moodle course is usually made up of activities and resources. An activity could be a lesson. Since you posted this in the Lesson forum, I am going to use the word Lesson instead of course (MoodleDOC links are fighting me today so I will just show them).

1) There are (http://docs.moodle.org/en/Adding/editing a lesson") lesson settings under that set a (http://docs.moodle.org/en/Adding/editing_a_lesson#Timed) time limit in the lesson. There is a lesson setting which makes entry into a lesson (http://docs.moodle.org/en/Adding/editing_a_lesson) dependent upon spending time in a previous lesson. There are also lesson settings which can open and close the lesson by a very specific date & time window (which is not what you are asking but this is also a course setting feature).

2) There are logs (reports) which can tell you how long a student spends in a particular lesson page. Someone else will have to point out a report which will summarize the log by student/activity-resource in time.

There is not a database field which gives a running time for each student in a course, or each lesson. The log database notes each event (for example page visited in a lesson) by the time it took place.

In reply to Mike Forbes

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Glenys Hanson -

Hi David,

Have you considered presenting your questions as Hot Potatoes through QuizPort? QuizPort allows all kinds of pre- and post- conditions for questions including minimum and maximum time per question (see below). For the moment, QuizPort only exists for 1.9 but a version, called TaskChain is expected for Moodle 2 in the autumn.

Cheers,

Glenys

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In reply to Glenys Hanson

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Mike Forbes -

QuisPort could be an alternative to using Lectora? Depending on the price it could solve your problem.

In reply to Mike Forbes

Re: Can Moodle to be used for my online Defensive Driving course?

by Glenys Hanson -

Hi David and Mike,

QuizPort is a free, non-standard Moodle module. I'm not sure it meets all your requirements, David, but pricewise it does. wink

Cheers,

Glenys